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Author Topic: Kwikee Stunt proposal  (Read 1095 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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Kwikee Stunt proposal
« on: August 12, 2009, 09:47:32 AM »
At the Knights of the Round Circle, we are planning to try out a new fun-fly event.  The idea is to fly aerobatics in a very fast and easy to judge manner using the simplest of models.  The Sarpoulos designs from Blackhawk models and the Sig 1/2A Skyray come to mind as readily available kits that would be useable.

Here are the proposed rules:

Kwikee Stunt Rules

This event is designed to be flown with the simplest of engine/aircraft configurations.  It is intended for fun-fly contests.  The flights are very short, and the judging is simple.  The flight becomes a total performance rather than an assembly of maneuvers.  Tutus optional.

Aircraft:

*  Flat plate airfoil only.  Any design, any size.  Kit or “homebrew” designs are OK.
*  Power is any single engine .061 c.i. or smaller or .105 c.i. multi-engine combination *
*  Any propeller allowed.
*  Any tank size allowed, but the pattern only takes just over 2 minutes so you might as well keep it small (about ˝ ounce for a Tee Dee .051 or AP Wasp .061)

Fuel and lines:

*  Must meet a 5 lb pull test.  No line length requirement.  AMA line sizes required.
*  Any fuel allowed.

Flight:

The maneuvers are the same as the PAMPA pattern and in the same order.  However, there are no intermediate laps, and only one repetition is required.

Maximum flight time 5 minutes from start signal.  Pilot may be at the handle when signaling to maximize available flight duration.

There will be 3 flights for each contestant, the best 2 scores summed for the final score.

Judging:

The flights will be judged as a whole, rather than individual scores for each maneuver.  Scores will be from 1 to 10 for the entire performance. 

All contestants will judge all flights (except their own, of course) and (if there are more than 5 contestants) the high and low scores deleted.  The remaining scores will be averaged.

*   2 x .051s, 3 x .035s, 5 x .020s, 10 x .010s  Whatever floats your boat.


What do you guys think?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 09:59:10 AM »
I know that I have a dog in this race but it sure sounds like fun to me andI am all for FUN!.
Larry

Offline Graham Collins

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 04:55:23 PM »
Hi Larry,

I like the idea, simple.  Kind of like the types of planes I like to build these days and about the only type of flying I get to do.

If I was to add one comment or suggestion it would be to set the engine upper limit to .105 cu in, single or multi. My reasoning is that there are still lots of norvel .074's and Thunder tiger .07's and enya .09's and OS .10's (not to mention diesels) around and planes built a little larger with flat plate wings and on a bit longer lines than you might have for the typical 049/061 might make it appealing to a bit larger audience - might actually fly a bit better too. I am limited at the RC field I fly at to 50' lines max so I only fly the smaller planes. The 049/061's are fun but something a bit bigger with a bit larger engine has a bit more presence and is a bit more tractable as well.

Don't forget Bruce Feaver's White Lightning design http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/cl_sp_white_lightening.htm

my 2 cents.

cheers, Graham

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 09:57:44 PM »
Thanks Graham, interesting thoughts.  My thinking is that I would keep it to .049 if more than one was readily available.  However with the price/availability of the AP Wasp, and it's good stunt characteristics, I was willing to go to 1cc both in Leprechaun/1cc stunt and Kwikee.  Bigger models, to my way of thinking, cease to be the 1-nite wonder plane that I think will attract casual fun-fly pilots.  The Skyray and Blackhawk kits are appropriate and readily available.  Home brew designs are of course very easy to do, and in this size acceptable in material cost (by the way, it says flat airfoil, not balsa, so foam would be OK).

Any club is free to run the contest any way they please, including piped .75 powered models.  Whatever floats your boat!  With a regular stunter, you could put in all three patterns in one flight.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 04:38:23 PM »
After doing battle with the Skyray and Golden Bee, and also trying out a Black Widow on the plane, I don't think that a reed engine can be made to be competitive.  The Golden Bee hasn't enough power, and the Black Widow not enough duration.  I suppose there are component combinations and props and fuel that can do the job, but I want the event to be easy to prepare for, not a technical nightmare.

Definitely recomment going to an engine with a tank.  The Medallion, Big Mig, modified Brodak MK 1, and AP Wasp will all do the pattern nicely on a standard tank.  Of course adding uniflo venting will improve the stunt run consistency.  Tee Dees, AME, Stehls, VA and similar engines will need to run pressure to get a reliable pattern.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 05:36:57 AM »
On my Black Widow, I ran an interior fuel line from one of the vent tubes to the fuel inlet, then a standard tank or bladder pressure to that vent exterior end.  Integral tank is bypassed altogether. 

The BW seems to like it, especially when I use bladder pressure...a very steady run. I imagine I could drill out the venturi for more power with the bladder, but then I'd probably just blow a crank or something, so I haven't.
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
AMA902472

Offline Graham Collins

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 07:46:05 AM »
Hey Larry,

I have taken your idea of the Kwikee Stunt to heart and have started working on something suitable.  It will be the new home for one one of my AP 061 (with Cox bits) and probably a spinner too. It will be another variant of the Ringmaster build like and sized similar to the Sarpolous 1/2a control line designs and I hope to have it done for the Oct 3/4 weekend for the big Ringmaster 2nd Annual Fly-A-Thon (kind of like a world wide fun fly non-contest).

I will pass on details.

cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Kwikee Stunt proposal
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 08:41:54 AM »
Sorry, I mis-spoke.  I believe it is too difficult to get a Kwikee pattern in with a reed valve engine using its integral tank.  Certainly with an external tank and Black Widow, Venom or Killer Bee, there should be no difficulty getting both the power and duration needed.

Grahm, please post pix of your model and info on its performance!  Also, let us know how you like flying the "short program".  It is kind of like dancing, to me; you always have to be thinking about your next move, rather than precise overlap of maneuvers one at a time. 

BTW, my AP with your Cox venturi adapter is running great!  Smooth power with a uniflo tank.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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