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Author Topic: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit  (Read 1339 times)

Offline John Rist

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I just ordered the VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit.  I have their Baby Nobler up and flying and it is great. Thought I would try the Flight Streak.  Will keep you posted when the kit arrives.

https://vintageperformancemodelairplanes.com/collections/1-2a-beam-mount-kits/products/baby-flite-streak-1-2a-beam-mount-kit 
John Rist
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Offline John Rist

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I dug through my collection of 1/2 engines looking for something to mount on the upcoming Baby Flight Streak.   I found a Norvel 1/2 A engine in the collection.  I am not sure what it is.  I am guessing it might be a NV Big Mig 061 CL.  Anyway I put about 5-6 minutes of run time on it and it is a screamer on 15% Omega fuel.  Can't wait till my kit comes in and I can get started building.   #^
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Offline john e. holliday

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I await the results. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline John Rist

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Is there a way to determine what NV 1/2A engine I have.  Is it a  Big Mig 061 CL or is it an 051 something.  The motor was bought 5-6 years ago.  Doesn't really matter but would be nice to know.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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   The Norvel .061 really isn't a 1/2A engine. It is actually a class A engine and it displaces .061" or 1cc.  The Norvels, both the .049 and the .061 have had different markings over the years. The .049 usually has the letter AMA on the left side case and in small numbers is stamped or engrave 0.08 Which is it's displacement in cc's. Some of them I have are marked .049 but I do not know the vintage of the differences chronologically. The .061 engines can be marked with that number on the side, or if they are old enough, the letters AMA and 1.0 on the left side of the engine cases. If you bought it new direct from Norvel or the company NV, there may be a label or tag on the bottom of the box or some where else with the information. The company NV is the current manufacturer of the engine and parts available from them. I'm not aware of a US distributor of the engine and parts at this time.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Trostle

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Several comments.

1/2A scale allows engines up to 1cc or .061 cu in displacement.

The smaller Norvel engines come in two sizes.  There are engines with .049 cu in displacement and engines with 1cc or .061 cu in displacement.  The mounting lugs are the same so the engines are interchangeable. 

There are two versions of the Norvel engine in each of these displacements.  There is the "sport" version called the "Big Mig" and there is the performance version called the "AME".  Also, there are CL versions (no throttle) and RC versions with a throttle for both the Big Mig and the AME.

The outward appearance of the engines are often very similar, though there have been different case castings and cylinder fins.

The difference between the AME and Big Mig engines is primarily the intake ports.  It is easy to tell the difference by taking off the head and looking inside the cylinder.  The AMD (high performance version) will have three (3) large intake ports.  The Big Mig (sport version) will have five (5) relatively smaller intake ports.  (I think the timing is different between the two engines.)

These engines like smaller props and like to run at a high rpm.  The AME engines probably work better with some kind of a fuel pressure system and will operate at a higher rpm.  The throttles that some of these engines have are quite effective and easy to operate.  There are mufflers made for these engines and are held on with wire spring clips.  The muffler has a pressure tap on it.

Keith.

Offline John Rist

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The difference between the AME and Big Mig engines is primarily the intake ports.  It is easy to tell the difference by taking off the head and looking inside the cylinder.  The AMD (high performance version) will have three (3) large intake ports.  The Big Mig (sport version) will have five (5) relatively smaller intake ports.  (I think the timing is different between the two engines.)

Keith.
Well With Keith's info I have it all figured out.  Their are no markings on the case except the letters AM^.  The third character is an upside down V with a bar across it base.

Anyway it has 5 small round ports so it is a Big Mig.  I measured the stroke at .391" and the bore at .441  If you do the math this comes out right around .06 cu in.  So I have a NV Big Mig .061 CL.   #^
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Offline John Rist

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Kit came in yesterday.  Nice kit. Very complete.  Wing has a notched spar making the wing build a snap.  Detailed instruction on drawing makes it even easier.  Wood looks good.   The only surprise is the landing gear.  Picture on Vintage Performance web site shows a single wheel. Kit came with a two wheel landing gear.  However the gear did come complete with two wheel mounted.  Also included is bell crank, push rod, and lead outs.

Should be a quick build.  I will keep the pictures coming.   y1
John Rist
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Offline Larry Renger

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Where does the bellcrank go?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Rist

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Where does the bellcrank go?
It's a built-up wing.  Bellcrank goes inside the wing on a plywood platform.
John Rist
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 09:54:36 AM »
Just ran into the first hitch in the getalong.  As with the full size craft the Baby Ringmaster has very little room for a tank.  Looks like 1-1/2" between the motor and wing.  I found a Brodak 2 oz tank that might work.  The BH-582.

https://brodak.com/fuel/large-profile-standard-vent-fuel-tank-2-oz.html

It measures 2-1/4" H x 1-1/2" W x 1-1/2" Long.  The 2-1/4" diminution is 3/4" wider than the fuselage.  Ugly but should work.

Any suggestions?   ???   ::) 
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2021, 09:44:21 PM »
Built the wing today.  Pretty much followed the instructions on the print. After installing the bottom sheeting I installed the control system, wing tips and flaps. As the last step I installed the top sheeting. This differed from the instructions which had the last step as installing the wing tips and flaps.
Included pictures:
DSC_6502 Installed clam shell spar and trailing edge bottom and top. (Do not glue clam shell spars at this time.)
DSC_6504 Install and sand to shape leading edge. (Glue clam shell spars)
DSC_6507 Install bottom sheeting and control system.
DSC_6509 Finished wing ready to cover
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 09:54:42 PM by John Rist »
John Rist
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 10:17:43 PM »
John,

Unfortunately, I can't say I've used that style tank on a half-A. So I am quite curious about your results if you go that way. Please share your results.

A friend used to use that style all the time on his .35-sized sport planes. But that was a long, long time ago and if the plane fired up and went in circles we were happy....

I think the tank height may give you some draw problems; or, said perhaps more accurately, the fuel pressure head will change quite a bit during the run. That design of tank minimizes the problem of needle valve location by skinnying up the tank in the lateral direction (good) but pays a price for the larger fuel load by exaggerating the height.

I fiddled with a number of tanks on a Junior Flight Streak. As you might expect (according to a corollary of Murphy's Law), a conventional tank of very limited capacity ran beautifully thru the whole tank. I tried several others, including a custom tank to compromise between the excessive dimensions (run variations) and a decent run time with little success. I will say that my next variation was going to be an inboard tank, but didn't have a small enough one handy, so the plane went back on the wall. But the inboard tank is an option you might consider.

Dave

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2021, 10:06:42 PM »
Got the fuselage ready for paint today.

Pictures:
DSC_ 6512  Heavy weight while glue dries.  Used super glue on most parts but used Titebond wood glue for this.
DSC_6513   Glued in stabilizer making sure it was centered and square.
DSC_6514   Rudder slight offset and square to vertical
DSC_6515   Dry fit final assembly.  Will take apart to paint fuselage and to cover wing.
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2021, 02:35:32 PM »
How about a bladder in a tube over the wing, combat style. Or even a balloon tank inside the wing leading edge volume? Need to epoxy coat inside the sheeting, of course. Pourin thin epoxy and roll it around for a while. I think the chamber is pretty much sealed except for the hole in the rib. Some tape should seal that.

Simpler if pre planned, of course.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2021, 09:30:00 PM »
In photo 2 the spar is solid. So you have to cut it away for the bellcrank?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2021, 12:28:23 AM »
In photo 2 the spar is solid. So you have to cut it away for the bellcrank?
Yes.  See reply #11 DSC_6507 of this thread.   y1

Also had to enlarge some of the lead out holes to clear the down line lead out.
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2021, 12:42:54 AM »
How about a bladder in a tube over the wing, combat style. Or even a balloon tank inside the wing leading edge volume? Need to epoxy coat inside the sheeting, of course. Pourin thin epoxy and roll it around for a while. I think the chamber is pretty much sealed except for the hole in the rib. Some tape should seal that.

Simpler if pre planned, of course.
The leading edge provides very  little strength.  I may cut into it on the outboard wing to make room for a balloon tank canister.  I use Rx medicine bottles for a canister.  All I need is about another 1/2". Adding a web at the back of the hole should provide strength.  See photo DSC_6507 of reply #11.   D>K   
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2021, 07:29:51 PM »
Well Larry as usual your advice is the best.  The Brodak 2 oz tank came in and it is big, heavy and ugly for a 1/2 A.  I built a balloon tank.  The metal tank weighs almost 1-1/2 oz and would have made things noise heavy.  Balloon tank weighs 1/2 oz and things balance just right.  Picture tell the story.  I will fuel proof compartment.  by the way I also bought some Brodak 25% 1/2A fuel.  Pricey but with Brodak shipping the tank price would be out of sight.  y1

 Good news - Brodak shipping is fast.  Ordered stuff on Thursday morning. Package arrived Saturday.   #^
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2021, 08:49:23 PM »
Nice installation. If you glued in the tank container you shouldn’t have lost any wing stiffness.

Looking good and eagerly awaiting flight results. 👍

BTW, what engine and prop? The prop looks large for a Norvel type engine. They tend to overheat around the middle of your flight and sag off but not quit. My best performance was with the APC 5.5x2.5 prop and 10/22 fuel. Had a lot of bum flights until I figured this out.

TeeDees can run 6x3 props with high nitro*, but Norvel and their clones need to rev and like lower nitro fuel. Or that is just me. 😎

*Designed for Free Flight short runs, not steady stunt flight. 1/2 A stunt didn’t exist in the 60s when the engine was engineered. Talk to Bill Atwood and Dale Kirn about this if your Ouija board is working. The Medallion series works way better for stunt.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 09:15:40 PM by Larry Renger »
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2021, 10:55:27 PM »

BTW, what engine and prop? The prop looks large for a Norvel type engine. They tend to overheat around the middle of your flight and sag off but not quit. My best performance was with the APC 5.5x2.5 prop and 10/22 fuel. Had a lot of bum flights until I figured this out.
That is a 6x3 prop in the picture.  I do have a 6x2 APC in hand.  I will start out with it.  Also I will try and stay on the rich end of needle setting. Not looking to do the stunt pattern.  Just fun flying.  Loops, wing over, and possible inverted flight.   y1   #^   n~
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2021, 03:50:16 PM »
Final dry fit of wing to fuselage.  Wing covered with yellow EconKote.  Fuselage painted with Rust-Oleum.  I still have to add a coat of clear polyurethane to fuel proof.  I did some testing with Home Depot's polyurethane.  It seems to work well.  Varathane brand, Polyurethane, Oil Based, Clear, Gloss.  I am going to wait a day to give the Rust-Oleum time to cure.  I painted the black this morning.

A side note.  Nobody seems to make striping tape any more. Auto-Zone has it under pin stripe.  Seems to be the same stuff Great Planes used to sell.
https://www.autozone.com/decals-and-graphics/pinstriping/p/prostripe-black-1-4in-x-40ft-pinstriping/7342_0_0

Another side note.  EconKote seem to be going away.  I found a roll of yellow at my LHS.  Might be the last roll of yellow in the world.  Tower only lists 3 colors, Red Black and Yellow.  Yellow is out of stock.
John Rist
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Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2021, 10:16:32 PM »
John,
Looking good!
Check your messages for info on using a 2 oz. and smaller inboard tank location for 1/2A.
Have used it for years, no problems.
Sorry I did not see your post weeks ago.
Roger Vizioli
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2021, 03:59:20 PM »
Baby Flight Streak is ready for first flight.  Airplane dry weighs 6.4 oz. CG came out about a 1/4" in front of the high point of the wing.  I have some Brodak 1/2A 25% fuel that I will try.  The prop is a APC 6x2.  Balloon tank will hold close to 2 oz.  I will start with around 1 oz.  Next step is to test run the NV and get the needle setting close.   #^     #^    #^
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 10:29:59 PM by John Rist »
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2021, 10:12:15 PM »
2 oz on. 1cc engine will give you a loooong flight.

If my memory serves, I could do a full pattern on under 1 ounce.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2021, 10:26:20 PM »
2 oz on. 1cc engine will give you a loooong flight.
Larry, True but that's the great thing of a balloon tank.  It runs the same on a short tank as well as a full tank.   LL~

Flight report in a few days.  Life is good when you are at the flying field.   #^

PS Larry thanks for all of your advice on this project.
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2021, 11:10:37 PM »
Glad to be helpful. It would be sad to waste a lifetime of experience. The knowledge should live on.
..
Please ask me anything you guys want to know.
.
When I was a kid, there were “Secret Stuff Techniques”. Most of that is known or known to be wrong by now. Differential flaps, for instance. Extreme engine and rudder offset. Larger inboard wing to the extreme of the All Amercan. Tuned pripes have no power over 45 deg altitude, a 4 cycle engine will never win a major competition (My lips are sealed on who pronounced that! But you would know him as a major competitor. A 4 cycle won the next Worlds)
World class models are very symmetrical with only the smallest of tweaks.


We need all the new pilots we can find and get them up to speed as fast as we can.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2021, 02:50:15 PM »
NV .061 test run went well.  She turns 20K RPM on 25% Brodak fuel swinging an APC 6x2.  Ran about 3 minutes on 1 oz of fuel. Made up a set of 35' lines.  Flight test soon.    y1
John Rist
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Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2021, 06:56:58 AM »
2 oz on. 1cc engine will give you a loooong flight.

If my memory serves, I could do a full pattern on under 1 ounce.

Larry,
Yes, 2 oz is a looong flight. I rarely filled it above 1 1/2oz on the 1/2A Pathfinder and Ringmaster 207.
Using an Audio tach, was running over  25750rpm in flight on the Norvel .061 so fuel consumption was relatively higher than an equivalent Cox running at lower rpm's.
Take care,
Roger
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Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2021, 07:03:58 AM »
NV .061 test run went well.  She turns 20K RPM on 25% Brodak fuel swinging an APC 6x2.  Ran about 3 minutes on 1 oz of fuel. Made up a set of 35' lines.  Flight test soon.    y1
.

John I flew on 42'lines with lap times 3.0 - 4.1. Yours will be fast!
Have fun,
Roger 
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2021, 10:19:13 AM »
.

John I flew on 42'lines with lap times 3.0 - 4.1. Yours will be fast!
Have fun,
Roger
Roger you make a good point. I do have a set of 47' lines.  I may go with them instead.  If too long I can always cut them down.   y1
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Offline Dave Moritz

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2021, 11:03:17 AM »
Now that we've got Larry on the line, thought I'd throw in a question about the Big Mig .061 and fuel tanks. An RSM Pinto kit and Big Mig.061 await my attention. Any recommendations on the best tank setup (or, what setup to avoid)?  I've as yet to master the technique required for balloon tank, though that setup does look fascinating.

Gratitude in abundance!

Dave Mo...
...with the naked Earth beneath us, and the Universe above. (C Stevens)

Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2021, 01:04:44 PM »
Roger you make a good point. I do have a set of 47' lines.  I may go with them instead.  If too long I can always cut them down.   y1

John,
I typed the info incorrectly. Lap times. HB~> HB~>3.0-4.1    should be  3.9-4.1
Sorry,I call it Fat finger syndrome!
Roger Vizioli
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2021, 03:40:14 PM »
Roger is right for a change (joke) anything under 45 ft and it will screw u into the ground

built one years ago and put a TD .049 on it and could hardly keep up with it on 42 ft with a 5.5/4 white top flight prop
rad racer

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2021, 05:07:54 PM »
I really don’t know what tanks are available anymore. I guess Brodak is the main source now.RSM makes tanks and the Pinto kit, so perhaps they nave something appropriate.

I really, really like balloon tanks. Easy to make and really cheap. No possibility of fuel foaming. Also very light.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2021, 12:17:06 AM »
Hmmm. Some guys have trouble getting the balloon tank to work reliably. I haven't tried them personally because I haven't felt the need. But it's not fun to watch your flying buddies struggle with something like that. I put ballooneys in about the same category as a plastic tank with clunk line(s). If you get it figured out then you think they are great. If you don't, then.....not so much.

As discussed in a separate thread, the Pinto has a custom tank that is sized to fit the plane. All the info is on the plan. But, in a relentlessly similar way, if bending sheet metal and soldering isn't something that a guy is familiar with, then it would likely cause the same kind of run problems as a clunker that won't clunk, or a ballooney that is just looney...

The Divot

Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2021, 09:22:58 AM »
First flight went well.  Baby Flight Streak is fast and is very responsive to the controls.  Only problem is engine went lean on loops.  NV .061's are notorious to have weak fuel draw.  I may try a bladder tank next.   D>K
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2021, 05:00:34 PM »
First flight went well.  Baby Flight Streak is fast and is very responsive to the controls.  Only problem is engine went lean on loops.  NV .061's are notorious to have weak fuel draw.  I may try a bladder tank next.   D>K

   Looking at your photos, try shortening up your fuel line as much as possible. I have never run a balloon tank, but maybe run some muffler pressure into it. Leaning out in an inside loop would indicate that the tank is too low and fuel has to flow up hill against G force. Can you adjust the height of the tank??
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Just ordered a VINTAGE PERFORMANCE Baby Flite Streak 1/2A Beam Mount Kit
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2021, 05:53:45 PM »
Well the fix is in.  I have installed a bladder tank.  Bladder tanks are a pain in the rear but they work.  They are totally independent of fuel line length, position,  and loops.   They would be wonderful if I had 3 hands.  Setting it up is a also a pain.  Getting it started the first time is a challenge.  However I finally got the needle set and it is working great.  I ran the fuel tubing up and over the fuselage.  That way while holding the ship with the left hand I can clamp the fuel line with my index finger.  I then remove the fuel line clamp with the right hand and pick up the electric starter.  Anyway it's a pain but the end results are worth it.  So, I am ready for this Saturday's 1/2A flyin at our club flying sight.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 08:25:51 AM by John Rist »
John Rist
AMA 56277


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