News:



  • May 27, 2024, 10:24:54 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Geo Update!  (Read 2044 times)

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Geo Update!
« on: March 22, 2012, 11:41:06 PM »
Honest, I am still working on Ray's Geo and making progress!  The stab and elevator are covered as are the flaps and one wing.  Next week, with luck and the "crick" don't rise, the second wing will be bright red too.  Then a shot of Schoolbus yellow epoxy on the fuselage and vertical, some Moneykote decor.

I broke in the Fox .049 engine a few weeks ago before my Aussie/Kiwi adventure.  That is a NICE engine.  On 15% Nitro, it turned a 5x3, 3-blade Tornado prop at 18K.  Very impressive.  Maybe even too much motor for this plane?  It does need nitro to run smoothly, and being a Fox, I suspect a whole heap of oil.  Considering that this is NOT the FAI "hot" version, I can only surmize that the reason it never caught on was highly variable quality.  It seems that the ones available now are carefully fitted from the available components.  I may have to get another....   y1
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 03:44:10 AM »
Hello Larry,
I can only endorse your comments about the Fox 0.049, the current ones, are a real power houses. Goodness knows what the FAI version is like! The plain vanilla one is exceptionally strong. Buy an adapter ring from Mattes engine reworks and you then have the choice of Cox, Galbreath / Nelson and Merlin plug and adapters. Well worth the cost of both items.

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 08:58:10 AM »
Sounds very interesting.  How do I contact Mattes engine?  I'm afraid I am completely unfamiliar with the name.  b1
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 01:50:11 PM »
Hello Larry,
Just google "Mattes Engine Rework" that should get you onto the site. I think his first name is Bob, he specialises in freeflight stuff mostly. He does a Nelson plug type head for the Cox 0.2 cu inch engines. I intend to give that a try sometime. However I can fully recommend the Fox 0.049 adapter ring, it works a treat and not overly expensive.
Mr Mattes was very helpful when I made enquires and I had the adapter ring in 5 days, which is good going for a transatlantic delivery!

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1468
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 05:39:04 PM »
              I believe this is the site. http://www.flyfreeflight.com/Site/Commercial_Parts.html  Ken

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 04:09:08 AM »
Hello Larry,
Sorry, I am at it again with my shifting of the decimal point. I should have written Cox 0.02! So a correction before I get ragged again! Yes the site that Ken has indicated is the correct one, just look down the LHS of the page that comes up and click on Fox 0.049 and there you are.
  I have used some anti seize compound on the brass adapter ring, just in case. I was thinking of making an adapter myself at one stage, until I found this one, at the price it is much easier to buy one.

Regards,

Andrew.

P.S. Oh I forgot to say that it works very well indeed. I am probably lucky as the heads screw in and out with the brass adapter ring staying in the engine, if it were the other way around, I maybe wouldn't enthuse quite as much.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 05:55:14 PM »
Final paint is on!  Tank made and a handle too.  Here are some photos.

Note that the wedge is at the BACK of the tank, not the side.  This lets me use standard tank ends and keep the width as small as possible.  That is a 3/4 ounce tank.  I get the parts from Eric Rule.  I am trying to convince him to make it a standard product.  The rear wedge works perfectly.  It is something I learned from Eric Clutton (Dr. Diesel).  This tank is uniflo, as most of mine are (except the balloon tanks, haven't figured out how to do that yet!)

The handle is my Ultimate 1/2A handle as produced, again by Eric at rsmdistribution.com .  Since the Geo has flaps, the exponential feature may be overkill, but then all I need to do is reshape the spacers.  Finish is two coats of Behr water based sanding sealer with cornstarch added, followed by liberal coats of Lusterkote.

The finish on the model is lightweight iron on film with Painters' Choise bright red to, hopefully, match on the fuselage and vertical tail.  Deco will be Moneykote cut-outs.  Supermarket plastic bags make a totally impervious masking material.

Next up is to make a tank mount, and then it is into the last fiddely bits.

Overall, Ray's design and kit are extremely good. The fit and finish of the parts was topnotch, and it was really complete.  The Geo structure is absolutely awesome in its rigidity. I am going to have to rip off the concept real soon.  VD~

I would probably have gone a bit bigger, and a longer tail moment and smaller vertical.  But that is my style, and he has his.  I expect good things from this model.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bootlegger

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2710
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 04:22:21 AM »

   Larry, the model looks really nice, can you give us some specifics, engine limits, weight & plans availability..

  Also lots of info on the tank, what line goes where and is the wedge at the rear of the tank?

           Thanks Gil
8th Air Force Veteran
Gil Causey
AMA# 6964

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 08:30:53 AM »
If you look above, you will see: "Note that the wedge is at the BACK of the tank, not the side.  This lets me use standard tank ends and keep the width as small as possible.  That is a 3/4 ounce tank.  I get the parts from Eric Rule.  I am trying to convince him to make it a standard product."   n1

The model is from a Minnesotamodeler kit, and available from him.  There is a site in the vendors' forum section for his stuff.  The model is around 150 sq.in. I think. and I expect it to come out around 7 or 8 ounces.

Looking at the tank photo, the nearest tube out the front of the tank is the fuel pickup; it goes to the very back of the wedge on the outside. The other one is the uniflo; it exits about 1/4"ahead of the pickup.  The two tubes exit just above the tank seam side by side.  The tube out the side is the vent, and it gets capped off after filling.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 12:08:37 PM »
Finished and ready to fly!  I plan to take it out tomorrow morning and see what it can do.

I needed 1/4 ounce of tailweight just to get the CG on the wing.  I expect that more will be needed.

If I were building the model again, I would move the wing 1" forward.  Currently it weighs 7.26 ounces.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1468
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:27:42 PM »
                Hello Larry, the plane looks great. I like seeing the Fox on the nose as well. I have a Fox .07 that I play with from time to time. Amazing the power they provide for an older design, the Fox doesn't get the credit it deserves. I hope the flight goes well. Ken

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 09:13:11 PM »
The problem with the Fox engines, as far as I can see, was quality control.  The new ones are MUCH more carefully assembled.  I worked for Fox in that era, tried one of these engines, and it was pretty bad.  This one has tremendous potential.  It wasn't the design, it was the execution.  More when I actually fly with it!  I may order one of the FAI versions to see what it can do.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline ray copeland

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 871
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 10:03:52 PM »
Super nice Larry! Can't wait for the flight reports. What holds the tank to the pad and the pad to the adjuster?
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 06:27:38 AM »
Hello Larry,
Unless you are a brave man, i think you will find the FAI version to be a real handful in stunt! I have seen one used in some sort of FAI vertical take off, free flight, type machine and it sure scared me! Much better performance than Cox Tee Dee powered versions. Make a good 1/2A speed engine!
Let us know if you go that route, I am too timid to try it!

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline dankar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 431
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 08:53:04 AM »
Nice looking little ship. Good luck with it. I have two FAI Fox .049's but have not run them. They are fit pretty good .

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 09:57:44 AM »
So far as I know, this is not the FAI version.  When I ordered it I told the guy I wanted it for stunt.  Is there a visible difference?

The tank and foam are attached with Goop adhesive.  I have been using this system for a while and it beats the heck out of rubber bands!  The foam is a vinyl or something craft foam that people use for making cutsey animals and stuff.  I get it at Michael's craft stores.  It comes in 1mm and 3mm thicknesses and lots of colors.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

  • 2014 Supporters
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2335
  • Me and my Chief Engineer
    • Minnesotamodeler
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 01:01:44 PM »
Very Nice Job, Larry...and it only took you, what, a year? Year and a half? 
Just teasin'...
i downloaded the pix; OK if I use them somewhere for ad/illustration?

Prototype used a Cox production engine and balloon tank.  I guess your Fox-and-metal-tank must be a little heavier.  Couldn't hurt to shorten the nose a little, looks like you have room. 

Looking forward to flight reports!
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
AMA902472

Offline Bill Adair

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 882
  • AMA 182626
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2012, 02:42:50 PM »
Hi Larry,

You should be able to tell which Fox engine you have by removing the head, and looking at the bypass ports at BDC. FAI has two ports, sport has one. The FAI also has a larger intake diameter, and different spray bar, but I don't Know the measurements. Personally, I think the sport version is much better for stunt, as the fuel draw is better. I'm told the FAI is usually run on pressure.

My early model sport .049 turns a Cox 6X3 prop at 15K, on Sig 25% nitro fuel, half and half Castor/synthetic. Doug tells me this is on the high end of performance for one, and it's not completely broke in yet.

Your Geo is beautiful, and I can't wait for the flying reports.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4002
Re: Geo Update!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2012, 04:28:18 PM »
Sadly, the Fox quit in mid-air twice.  The second time inverted.  All the bits are back together, a Cox spraybar installed (tiny bit of reaming, about .002 required for a press fit).  Examining the engine, the glow element was black on the end. On other engines, this has caused unreliability so I put in a new glowhead and extra gasket.

As expected, it is still a bit noseheavy, but the handle setting came out right and insides and outsides feel equal.

More as it develops!  I think it will be a good "bird" when I get it sorted out.

Late update, all is back together ready to fly.  I plan to go out Friday am.  No planned chages to the trim, as the engine seems to be the big issue. Until that is settled, I'll fly over grass!

I am flying on 42 ft lines of the new fishing leader line I found.  8 lb test is .006 diameter.  It does seem to have a small bit of stretch, despite claims to the contrary, but I didn't feel it while flying, not springy stretch like monofiliment line.  It has a peculiar wiggle in the line as it comes off the small reel that it is sold on. I expect tha it will go away as it is used. It certainly straightened out OK while flying.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 08:12:57 AM by Larry Renger »
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here