Author Topic: Grumman Skyrocket! Time to "Git 'er done!" (Read 4195 times)

Robert McHam · « **on:** July 04, 2008, 12:03:53 PM »

This has been too long to get started but the time is now my friends!

The kit is really complete every bit of hardware you need to build it is included.
The wood is first rate and the quality of the parts fit could not be better. Very precise!
No die cutting. All parts are cut or shaped so there is no die crunching either. This also helps as you cannot mess up the part trying to coax it out of the die cut sheet.

Efficiency is key with these people.
The box is very full! No wasted space here. A lot of thought was put into how the box was packed. I should have taken a picture of the open box before i took anything out. I don't think I can get it all back in if I had a mind to.

I feel I should mention that this model was designed by Frank Scott. This plane is not often modeled and this may very well be the first one designed for half A engines. Thanks everyone who was involved in bringing this model to this point. It is now our turn to take it farther!

Here is a picture of all the stuff that was in the box.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2008, 01:34:52 PM »

The start of building and a question to all who may care.

How simple should I do this first build?
I was thinking of sanding the wing airfoil andadding fillets for the wings, nacelles and tail feathers but then I thought I should keep it more simple. Just build it as it as is and just rounding the edges as described in part 10 of the build instructions.
The fillets would not be a lot of work and would add so much to the overall appearance in my opinion. The sanding would not be so much either as the wing is very thin overall and a true airfoil would not be done. Just the T.E.would be tapered and the L.E. rounded.

Here is a shot of the wing parts ready to be assembled. I won't go to this much detail with each step keeping the thread a little bit streamlined.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2008, 09:24:44 PM »

Step 2 says to round the edges of the stab and elevator and I did so and to cement the hinges in place but I like to sew mine so I will wait till after finishing to do that.

step 3: join fuse and canopy and wing. Done.

step 4: Cement triangle fuselage supports to the wing and fuselage. This pretty much takes care of the Fillets I had thought of previously. Not a problem for me as it is clear on the plan but for someone who might not be versed in reading plans a think an isometric drawing might be good to look at. Too, these supports are from one piece of triangle stock and are the only thing one must cut to size and make it fit. This may also be mentioned in the step 4 directions.

Here is the wing and fuse after step 4.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2008, 09:27:03 PM »

Because of size restraints i had to divide up some of the posts.

This pic shows the Triangle stock more clearly. Lighting is not good but when using the flash it is almost all washed out as shown in the next post.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2008, 09:29:05 PM »

Shown in this pic is why I have not used the flash in the other posts:

Robert

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2008, 08:14:55 AM »

One of our dealers add blocks of light balsa to the fuselage and nacelles to bring them to full shape.....looked really nice. I would recommend that you hollow then if anyone wants to try that. Weight adds up quick.
Larry
Black Hawk Models

Robert McHam · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2008, 09:18:40 AM »

Adding soft blocks was one of the first things I thought about When i first opened the kit. If I build another I probably will do that if only to the nacelles and yes hollowing would be in order.
Still I wanted to keep this build as close to stock as possible. This out of respect for the design and designer and those that collaborated in the designing. I personally have a thing about taking a design and immediately want to change something! Sometimes I don't know how to leave well enough alone.

As for the build, I need to do some sanding and it is raining. Since i live in an apartment i have no shop or what one might call shop tools. I suppose one day I should invest in a shop vac. For now I do any sanding outside.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2008, 11:45:41 AM »

We had a nice rain here but it did not last terribly long.

Got my sanding done and some large steps taken.

Here is what it looks like so far. Not much more to go!

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2008, 11:59:26 AM »

OK, I couldn't help myself. I just had to throw what I have together to see!

I am rather pleased so far. So, One pic at a time, here are some different views.
Mind you these are not glued yet. Friction fit except for the fins and rudders to the stab.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2008, 12:00:42 PM »

Front quarter view.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2008, 12:04:03 PM »

I do so like seeing lots of pictures of models during a build so I should do the same.

Rear quarter view

Robert McHam · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2008, 12:08:16 PM »

One more for now. The belly of the beast.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2008, 05:46:35 PM »

don't forget to wear your pilot wings when you fly it.
Larry

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:51:26 AM »

Robert, looks great to this point. Anxious to see finished plane and hear flight reports. Looks like another great sport scale model from the "Black Hawk". DOC Holliday

Robert McHam · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2008, 01:05:02 PM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on July 05, 2008, 05:46:35 PM

don't forget to wear your pilot wings when you fly it.
Larry

You betcha I will! Thanks again for the great kit.

Since I moved I can't seem to locate my engines! Well, the ones I intended to use for this plane anyways. I need them in order to make my cuts in the cowls and to hold the LG in place!

I think might need some help in finishing the plane. I live in an apartment and there is no way to use dope plus I am out of clear. Any suggestions that won't smell up the place? I might try Doculam but I should have done the covering in stages during assembly.

Doc, thanks for your words and yes it is a nice addition to the Blackhawk line

Robert

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2008, 02:45:56 PM »

I have used this with silkspan on balsa, only 2 coats though it build very fast and you don't have to precoat the wood. Doesn't hardly smell at all. Just wet the silkspan as always and brush thru. If you want a really light great looking finish I use this without silkspan and brush thinned spackle compound on it once its dry sand with 400 grit. Then Duplicolor primer and rustolium paint. Of course sanding as needed. Works great for a 1/2As.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2008, 05:36:33 PM »

Mike, Good news. Thanks! Now I need to know more specifically Which Duplicolor primer and Which type Rustoleum colors.

Don't get me wrong folks I enjoy the smell of the dope like the old Ambroid glue (an all time favorite) and nitro. I just don't think I could get away with it in this nice apartment!

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2008, 09:56:09 PM »

Some success. I found many of my small engines and found few pairs. There are more somewhere...

Presently I have available a pair of Golden Bees, a couple of Baby Bees and a couple of the product engines with the backplate like the ones used in the Cox Super Stunter. A useable backplate unlike the older postage stamp backplate design.
I was planning on using a pair of OK Cubs but they have not turned up yet. I may go with the Baby Bees but the product engines might be a better choice and I think I know just where to put the tanks!

On another note, I noticed another thread that I had missed somehow By our friend Larry Rice about accessories for the Musciano designs that are Sold by Black Hawk models and after reading the thread I decided to look at some of them on his website. Couldn't find them (they aren't shown yet) but I did find me!
If you want to find me there you will have to go looking like I did and just hunt around a bit. It is always a good site to go plundering around!

Robert

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2008, 09:04:44 AM »

Here Robert this is what I use. I take the plane outside and spray then bring it back in to dry and keep doing that till it's got enough coats. As I'm always painting in the winter. Usually 2 primer and 2 color is all you need of course sanding between primer and color. Makes a really easy and fast finnish for half A's and other fast build planes. So I use it on most of my planes as I don't build 20 pionter stunt planes.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:49:27 PM »

Thanks Mike! Just what i need to go shopping. I went today after work just to see if I could guess which type and there are probably dozens of Rustoleum types that I figured would not work. I had no idea there were that many! I really am glad I asked.

The pic you provided has plenty of detail so that I will not be misled when I go back.

Robert

john e. holliday · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2008, 09:15:26 AM »

At one period of time while employed by Ma Bell at the time, I spent many a time in motel rooms for months at a time. I never really worried about the smell of dope. Even tho one of my supervisors asked one of the maids if she noticed the strange smell in my room. One he memtioned I used dope he said her eyes got big and them he had to explain to her my dope was not the kind she was thinking of. In all that time never heard one complaint from anyone. DOC Holliday

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:42:20 AM »

My daughter was in 1st grade and the school was doing some repair work in the gym. My daughter mention that the smell coming from the gym smelled just like dope. Her teacher ask her how see knew that and she said "My Dad uses it all the time in the basement". Well it took quite a bit of explaining to the teacher. It's really funny now thou.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2008, 12:41:33 PM »

Several things:

I too have used the word dope in conversations with those who were not modelers and had to do some explaining! Can't remember a specific incident in great detail but all mentions suddenly gain heightened attention from all within earshot of the conservation.

Mike, My suppliers nearby do not carry the Professional cans like you showed me and as I started doing a search I found this on the Rustoleum site:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
Q:   What are the differences between the Professional paints and the Stops Rust paints?
A:   Both product lines offer the same protection and durability you have come to expect from Rust-Oleum. Professional dries in 15 minutes.

With this in mind I can use what is available nearby. Drying time will be longer. I can live with that.

Could I use cheaper paints after sealing with the Minwax and follow with a coat of the minwax crystal as a protective outer shell?

Ok now to pull a rabbit out of my hat! just a little thinking I threw these onto the project and eyeballed it from many angles and the more I looked, the more I thought i should give any interested parties a look as well.
Can you say twin Gilberts? I knew you could!
Keep in mind nothing mounted yet but I kinda like the looks! Comments anyone? this has me wondering. Has anyone ever seen a plane powered by two Gilberts?
I would still be able to use the cowls. Inverted might be better for looks.

Robert

Robert McHam · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2008, 02:18:01 PM »

A different angle:

Robert McHam · « **Reply #24 on:** July 11, 2008, 02:19:57 PM »

Now from this angle:

Robert McHam · « **Reply #25 on:** July 11, 2008, 02:21:38 PM »

One more if I haven't bored you yet!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2008, 07:19:30 AM »

Love those twin-exhaust Gilberts, never owned one but the look is unique. IMO the upright mounts would look best, sort of fit in with the general awkward look of the design (I'm being sincere here, not sarcastic).

I first thought this was one of the ugliest airplanes I'd ever seen, but the look is growing on me. Sort of like, no pretense here, just function, what you see is what you get, I yam whut I yam, deal with it. LIke a loveable mongrel dog.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #27 on:** July 12, 2008, 07:44:59 AM »

Sorry about the accessory pack pictures, we are so busy and the web doctor is so far away. I posted the float pick on the accessory thread. If these attachments work here are the parts that make up the wheel pants and the conversion kits. The bomb kit is from our Douglas Dauntlass kit.
The Gilbert's look good there, I used them on our Mosquito kit, they worked fine.
Larry

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #28 on:** July 12, 2008, 07:48:35 AM »

Pants fron our Pitts Special kit

Robert Schroeder · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2008, 02:58:25 PM »

Dope? Yes, I use dope! Back in the early 50s, my mother, who was absolutely unenamoured with the stuff (probably because Mr. thumbs (me) kept spilling it on the floor) told me why they called it dope. She said "because dopes use it." My ex wife felt the same way, but not because I spilled it.

As far as Rustoleum goes, I've heard that all the enamel is ok.

i have a Corehouse Hellcat in my truck that I'll be building during my downtime and have some primer and Navy blue to paint on it. I've also read that in the plans for my Gotcha Streak that I should use Polycrilic on the wood. Plans say it doesn't attack foam. I painted my flight box with it and am not too happy with the outcome. The box looked beautiful when originally finished, but the Polycrilic, being an indoor paint, does not hold up to the enviornment when used as a final finish. Others may have had a different outcome. I have some regular outside polyurethane with me but will have to test it on the foam before I use it. Whichever, good luck. It will probably turn out beautiful if you follow the directions.

Bob

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #30 on:** July 18, 2008, 08:54:48 AM »

Bob
I have never used Poycrilic as a finnish coat as it is intended for interior use. I only use it as a base on wood and covering as I have found it works under any paint. It will not stand up to weather and I don't think it would do well with fuel.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #31 on:** July 18, 2008, 04:28:06 PM »

I am planning on using the polyacrilic to seal the wood as you say. Unlike dope, it does not soften the previous coat so I feel good about that. It should take only one coat anyway. I plan on using a squeegee (out of date ATM card!) while it is still wet to really get it into the pores. This should also keep the coat uniform and dry faster.

The Minwax Spar varnish is made for outdoors. I might try that for a top coat but I still want to gave a go with the Rustolem clear. I have only read that it will work/won't work so I suppose I should do it myself and that way I know for sure. Seems the majority opinion (not always based on fact) is that it does not hold up.

Which brings us to What "hold up to" means. I do not plan on exposing any of my models to raw fuel for any length of time. Just s long as it does well with an afternoon flying session and some exhaust residue, I will be pleased a punch.
Now, if I want to coat the inside of a wood box, let's say the compartment of a wood boat where the fuel tank goes, I would simply use epoxy or something like that. Same goes for the inside of a cowl or the firewall area where the engine is bolted. Not so worried about that little bit of extra weight there.

Which brings us to another question that I never bothered to ask in all these years:
What is "hot fuel" anyways?
Don't answer here, as I have posted this question in the open forum.
Here is a link to that thread:
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=10000.0

Robert

Dalton Hammett · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2008, 10:33:03 AM »

*****
Robert -- How's the progress on this plane. I am a fan of the Gilbert engines, especially the .11
It looks like a lot of power on the plane - I'd like to know how it flies.
Have you ever run across a supply of those snap in Gilbert spinners

??

Dalton

Robert McHam · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:17:51 PM »

Quote by Dalton:
"Have you ever run across a supply of those snap in Gilbert spinners Huh??"

No can't say I have. It would be rather nice though!

The ones shown are the .074. I don't have any of the 11s yet. Still not sure if I want to go with these as They would be so much cooler to be matching and I only have one set of pipes. As for the props and spinners No spinners will be needed and I would fly these on modern props. The hubs on the Gilbert's are massive!!! Too much extra weight there for no good reason. I can justify to myself the extra weight of the exhaust stacks on just the cool factor alone!

Progress... I am looking for a way to do fuel tanks for the Gilberts. Easy to do on the outboard, not so easy on the inboard side because of the leadouts.
Any ideas?

Robert

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:53:57 PM »

You should never use the original nylon props, due to their age they are not considered safe.
You could cut a 1" notch in the leading edge of the wing and mount a tank in it.
Larry

Dalton Hammett · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2008, 08:37:29 PM »

*****

Hi Robert,,, Larry is right , there is a safety issue with using the older Gilbert props. I have used
both in the past but that big hub actually makes a positive difference in the engines performance.
I don't know why, possibly the flywheel effect but the engines start quicker and run with more power
with the big hub prop.

Dalton

Bill Heher · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2008, 07:07:30 PM »

For Rust-o-leum alternatives I have had great success with America's Best brand at Home Depot. It is made by Rust-o-Leum Corp and seems to be the same paint. There are others I am sure, go to your local home improvement center and start reading labels. It seems that Rust-o-Leum packages for several store brands, they usually have Manufactured By Rust-o-Leum Corp, or ROC on the bottom of the labels.

I also use the cheap grey sandable primer, spray a light coat, let dry sand off the fuzz with 220. Spray a nice fill coat and sand it all off with 220, this does a fair job of filling the grain. Another coat and sand with 220/ 400 and it should be sealed and pretty smooth. I sometimes use a final coat of white primer if I am going to use a light color for base on the plane.

2-3 coats of color, letting it dry well and sanding between each coat will give you a servicable finish that is not too heavy, not as light as dope, but easier and cheaper to get the supplies locally.

Bill Little · « **Reply #37 on:** August 26, 2008, 06:51:52 PM »

Another cheap, and locally available, alternative to dope is Duplicolor Automotive Acrylic Lacquer. It is available at Auto Zone and other car parts stores. A BIG can is usually in the $5 range, and the colors are wide spread. The big cans say Truck, Van and SUV on them. The same paint in small cans use to say *Import Colors*, IIRC. I have used it on small planes without a clear coat, and it seems to hold up fine to *hot* (high nitro) fuel if not left exposed for long periods of time.. It has much the same properties as dope since it is also a lacquer product, plus it covers better than many colors of dope, and usually is a one coat application. It otherwise is much the same as the dope we use, and is compatible with Sig and Randolph's. I just haven't used it with any Brodak yet since it is not locally available. My oldest son's Satona piped PAMPA plane is completely done in Duplicolor with a Dupont Chromaclear top coat (for appearance points! LOL!!)

Mongo

frank carlisle · « **Reply #38 on:** August 27, 2008, 04:38:38 PM »

Hey Robert!! You're doing a great job on your model. Good detail in the and descriptions too. Threads like yours are great. Thank you.