Author Topic: Line Material (Read 3703 times)

john vlna · « **on:** December 07, 2010, 12:05:06 PM »

Since the other thread is locked, One of my Club mates bought some Berkeley Fireline(at Walmart). I haven't be able to find out what it is made of, but it does not seem to stretch and is very strong. It also comes in hi-vis colors. It looks suitable for 1/2A's

Larry Renger · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2010, 12:07:10 PM »

When I looked at Fireline, it had a very rough surface that will bind. Hopefully there is more than one variety!

john vlna · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2010, 12:23:56 PM »

Larry,
This was very smooth, no problem getting a knot to hold. There are apparently a variety of what Berkely calls 'superline'
john

P.S I have been using Power Pro which is advertised as spectra. The Berkeley line seemed smoother to my touch.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2010, 02:17:22 PM »

I had mentioned the product in the other thread as to try it as a way to avoid the constant burden using steel lines. Now, it has opened up various questions and liabilities that I'd rather not discuss. I like the stuff and I don't fly my 1/2 a equipment in sanctioned contests. I fly it for fun and I'm not overly concerned about the product I'm currently using breaking. I think the lines discussed work terrifically and stand the test of abuses usually dished out at the field. I'm currently using the Spectra. I'm not sure whether or not its still called that. Several items have carried over to our hobby from commonly used tackle. In fact I have line clips that are identical in lb.rating and looks compared to the ones the hobby manufacturers sell. I use some of these clips tuna fishing and not one plane ever pulled like a tuna does. I surely didn't want the other thread to escalate the way it did . I was just adding simple comments to what I felt was either a newcomer or a returning flier. Sometimes the simple stuff makes all the difference when it comes to 1/2 a flying as we all know it can test our patience. Ken

Paul Smith · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2010, 03:39:27 PM »

When giving advice to people who want advice, I would recommend that the advice be consistant with current AMA Rules, and not what you might like the rules to be in future.

Safer for you.
Safer for the questioner.
Safer for modeling in general.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2010, 05:00:07 PM »

As long as the person does his flying in what is a safe manner, that is his problem. I have lost count of how many 1/2A's I have flown on Dacron lines. Who knows how many people out there in this great land even know or worry about AMA? I myself only knew about them because of the magazines I read at the time. But, I also didn't have the equipment that was being used in competition.

As far as the new non metal lines that some have used and are still using, must be working. It is that no one has taken the time to experiment and test with documentation and photos of what they are doing. I can still remember when an individual had documentation that cable lines were unsafe. Some racing events still don't allow cable lines. If this person had gotten his way, all control line would be on solid wire flying lines as well as leadouts.

john vlna · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2010, 06:14:54 PM »

For years I only used steel lines on 1/2A's. I never cared for dacron due to the drag. I still mostly use steel because I now primarily fly throttle control and electric power on the 1/2A's and need conductive lines. But on the occasional glow flight I am now using spectra. Never had a bit of problem. I tie a fishing knot a seal with a drop of CA.

Joey Mathison 9806 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2010, 06:38:30 AM »

the other thread was locked because of it drifting to a rules changing thread. as loong as we are talking about how to and what kind of spyder wire that is fine. lots of 1/2 a flyers are not competition flyers and are only concerned with what works myself included. i am sorry if any one's feeling got hurt that was not the intent at all.

John Rist · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2010, 09:43:57 AM »

I have a local kite shop. http://www.foreverflying.com Click on LINE

I have had good results with Spectra 2000 style line. Shawn (the owner) keeps bulk in most any size. Email or call him and he can fix you up. The good things about Spectra for two string kites are that it has no stretch and it is designed to to slide over each other. A good stunt kite has more pull than a 1/2 A and requires price controll to fly the kite stunt pattern. Once again the smallest he has will be plenty strong. By the way the Dacron for single string kites is streachey and will not work.

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:59:26 PM »

I've never been an AMA member, never flown in competition (other than the friendly non-official kind), and I have never used metal lines for 1/2a. My favorite 1/2a line is braided spiderwire, but I've also used monofilament fishing line and the stretchy stuff that used to come in kits and with Cox ready-to-fly planes. I've smashed up a number of planes, but I can't seem to remember a single incident of line failure while flying 1/2a. While I think line material is important, I think frequently carefully checking line condition and attachment is very important. I think its a matter of common understanding that less stretch yeilds better control.

Bill Little · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2010, 09:03:58 AM »

Hi Guys,

I have flown in competition for years, but never have (YET! LOL!!) flown a 1/2A in competition. That may change with the Little Legends USA-1, though. I HAVE flown on .008 and man is that stuff difficult. You have to be 10000% (not a typo) careful when dealing with it because it WILL kink in a heart beat. My "contest" flying is really on the decline, execution wise, and now I am doing some "fun stuff" like 1/2As. It is purely for fun, and I like it.

As a kid, we flew the Dacron lines that Cox, Perfect, Goldberg, Pylon, etc., provided. Not the World's greatest stuff to use, but hey, I never had it fail.......

Now I've used Spiderwire (an old roll, don't remember the lb. test) and I think for when I want to fly a model with some "control" it works best.

Of course, when I go to fly the L.L. USA-1 in Profile, I will have to trim it for .008 steel lines, since that is what is required. No problem, just head aches!

Big Bear

George · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2010, 09:13:23 AM »

I have been an AMA member for many years and fully recognize that steel lines are safer, and are required for competition in AMA events for both safety and performance.

IMHO, for steel lines to be safer the person using them must be aware of, and be able to, properly care for and handle them. A kinked or frayed steel line may not be safer than fishing line or dacron.

For ease of use you can't beat the synthetics. I have used them successfully and will continue to do so.

I also understand that at a contest, I must use my steel lines.

George

Edit: Sorry, Bill...I musta hit enter just after you did...since I said about the same thing, I guess we agree.

Bill Little · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2010, 09:00:41 AM »

Hi George,

Yep, I would say we agree!

AS you mention, .008 steel lines are NOT safer if they ever get a kink in them, or start to fray. They will break with the slightest provocation then. The tiny solids are no better under those conditions, either, if you can still get them.

Bill

John Hammonds · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2010, 04:11:39 PM »

Hi All,
I decided I fancied a go at 1/2A (OK, I confess. The plan shows a DC Dart .5cc Diesel but it's going to be electric so not 1/2A at all but 13" span and 104sq" it's the right sort of size). Built out of my scrap box it weighs 20g as shown in the attachment. (Still Controls, Battery/motor mounting, U/C and covering to go).

I have never used 0.008" steel lines but understand they are a nightmare to keep in good order so I'm looking at Spiderwire but am confused by all the varieties available. I believe that I should avoid the mono-filament lines because of stretch.

Am I correct in thinking this stuff is what I am looking for?
http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/search.asp?pg=1&stext=Spiderwire+braid&sprice=&stype=&scat=445

And this stuff is not what I want?
http://www.basstastic.co.uk/spiderwire-ultracast-100-fluorocarbon-809-p.asp

I'm not expecting much pull at the handle What weight line should I go for?

Thanks in advance

TTFN
John.

tom hampshire · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2010, 04:57:52 PM »

Hi John - Just search 'Spectra' on this forum and full discussions will come up.

John Hammonds · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2010, 06:24:59 PM »

Hi Tom,
Thanks, yes I had also considered Spectra line but as yet I have been unable to source any in the UK. It has been briefly discussed on the UK Barton site in the past but no actual links to a UK seller.

It probably goes under a different name over here. I can get it from China, USA etc but the usual enemy of postage charges makes it uneconomical (I don't fish so all I really need is around 75ft of the stuff). That's why I settled on Spiderwire, at least it seems easily available and is the same stuff as discussed on this forum.

EDIT
I had presumed that "Spectra" was a brand in it's own right but is it actually a version of Spiderwire? I found this.. http://www.tacklebargains.co.uk/acatalog/SpiderWire_FUSION_Spectra_Super_Line___150_yards__.html Is this the Spectra line you mean (and is discussed in other threads)?
/EDIT

TTFN
John.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2010, 08:06:16 PM »

Quote from: John Hammonds on December 29, 2010, 04:11:39 PM

Hi All,
I decided I fancied a go at 1/2A (OK, I confess. The plan shows a DC Dart .5cc Diesel but it's going to be electric so not 1/2A at all but 13" span and 104sq" it's the right sort of size). Built out of my scrap box it weighs 20g as shown in the attachment. (Still Controls, Battery/motor mounting, U/C and covering to go).

I have never used 0.008" steel lines but understand they are a nightmare to keep in good order so I'm looking at Spiderwire but am confused by all the varieties available. I believe that I should avoid the mono-filament lines because of stretch.

Am I correct in thinking this stuff is what I am looking for?
http://www.reelfishing.co.uk/search.asp?pg=1&stext=Spiderwire+braid&sprice=&stype=&scat=445

And this stuff is not what I want?
http://www.basstastic.co.uk/spiderwire-ultracast-100-fluorocarbon-809-p.asp

I'm not expecting much pull at the handle What weight line should I go for?

Thanks in advance

TTFN
John.

Yes. Also the Fusion Spectra works well. Basically anything that says "zero stretch", or close, and the right lb. rating (10 or up is best, but I do use 8# sometimes.)

john vlna · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2010, 08:10:19 PM »

This link is to a Power Pro 'Spectra' site. I think Spectra may be a trade name they use. There is a similar Spider wire line. Personally I prefer Power Pro because it comes in bright yellow. The moss green spider wire is very hard to see. I have used the 8 and 10 pound for 1/2a electrics with no problems

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Power_Pro_Spectra_Braided_Line_Moss_Green/descpage-PPSL.html

Bill Adair · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2010, 09:13:58 PM »

John,

We are using Tuf Line braided spectra in hi-vis yellow, and it's the cat's meow for half-A airplanes!

Spider Wire Ultracast braided spectra is probably the same thing, and hi-vis yellow is perfect for grass fields. I'm using 20 pound test at the moment, but have some ten pound to try next. My flying mates say the ten pound is too light, and tends to curl up and knot when released. I think that might be because it needs to be pre-stretched before using, as it's braided flat to spool easily.

They also make a 6 pound test line, and I'm going to try that next.

Bill

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2010, 05:35:10 AM »

I've used as light as 4# with my .020s; 8# for mild .049; but 10# min., happier with 12 or 14, when flying my .061s. Although it must be said I've never broken any of them except in severe slack-line situations resulting in the big "bang" after cutting across the circle. (I've broken 7-strand SS the same way.)

By the way, John, that "Chubby" looks really cute, kinda like a shrunken Bi-Slob. Dimensions, power, etc.?

John Hammonds · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2010, 06:37:11 PM »

Thanks all, I think I have my head around it now.

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on December 30, 2010, 05:35:10 AM

By the way, John, that "Chubby" looks really cute, kinda like a shrunken Bi-Slob. Dimensions, power, etc.?

It's a Vic Smeed design. He was a prolific designer of "Sport" type models during the 50's and 60's and "cute" was his trademark. This one is from 1962, and was apparently fast and aerobatic on 15 - 20' lines with a .5cc diesel . The original idea was to do a slob job on it add flaps and give it loads of engine and fin offset coupled with a 3D RC foamy power set up but once I got the plan I felt the rib profile was too thin so decided to try to fly it as intended. The DC Dart shown on the plan developed around .04bhp which is around 30W, not sure how much the Dart plus fuel weighed but my set up (Motor Battery, ESC and Timer) weighs 2.8oz but is capable of around 75W. I have no great expectations for this, if it will loop, fly Inverted and manage a lazy 8 then anything else will be a bonus.

I have decided it will get some WW1 era clothing, Dk Green top surfaces with Cream underside along with the obligatory RAF roundels and Vickers M/C gun on the top wing.. (So Cute but Deadly). I have attached a reduced size copy of the plan actual span is 13"..

1/2A size is something I have never even considered before but I've really enjoyed this so far. I'm already dreaming of a 1/2A Genesis or Caprice or Stilletto or......

TTFN
John.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2010, 08:54:47 PM »

The Chubby reminds of Dan Banjock's "Mini Slob". His is .010 powered, could probably fly in many people's living room and flies exactly like a Bi Slob. Maybe a 5" WS. Saber Dance, loops on the end of the lines, etc., etc.. His line length can't be over about 8 feet! LOL!! Fits safely in a shoe box with all its flight equipment!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #22 on:** December 31, 2010, 02:26:38 PM »

Bill, the .010 I have would screw you into the ground on 8' lines. On a QB (11" span biplane) I use 20' to 25' lines. It pulls nearly as hard as my PeeWee .020s.

I'm talking about a Cox TeeDee .010--maybe there are other brands, and we're comparing "apples and oranges"?

Bill Little · « **Reply #23 on:** December 31, 2010, 06:03:30 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on December 31, 2010, 02:26:38 PM

Bill, the .010 I have would screw you into the ground on 8' lines. On a QB (11" span biplane) I use 20' to 25' lines. It pulls nearly as hard as my PeeWee .020s.

I'm talking about a Cox TeeDee .010--maybe there are other brands, and we're comparing "apples and oranges"?

Hi Ray,

I'm just going on memory of the "Mini Slob" several years ago at Brodak's.

The lines were really "short" is something I was amazed at. A lot of engine offset, everything was exactly like a full size a full size "Slob". It wasn't a REALLY FAST flying little bitty thing! LOL!! Anyway, it fit in the palm of my hand. I posted the "plans" (rough pencil drawings) that Dan sent me a good while ago, but it had Dan's phone number (I didn't know that!) so I pulled them, covered his number, but didn't put them back up. When I run across them again, I will post them. Dan has built a few different Tee Dee .010 stunters, that are of the "normal" variety, too.

And the only .010 made is the Cox Tee Dee .

Bill

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2011, 06:50:51 AM »

The Queen Bee looks kinda like a mini-Bi-Sob. I have yet to make it hover though, can't get it slow enough. Even tried a backward-mounted prop.