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Author Topic: #2 wood screws  (Read 359 times)

Offline Jim Roselle

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#2 wood screws
« on: April 17, 2024, 07:46:49 AM »
Hello,

 I’m returning to the hobby after a long absence and I’m building up a couple 1/2a skyrays to keep at my in laws house to fly with my son when we visit. My son is 7 and his plane will be a trainer. In the past I always used 2-56 or 4-40 t nuts on the back side of the firewall to secure cox engines. I am thinking of trying #2 wood screws directly into the firewall for expedience and simplicity. What is everyone’s experience with this method. Will it stand up to a trainer that is going get doinked into the ground?

 Thank you,
 Jim

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2024, 08:11:29 AM »
    yes, that will work fine. That has more or less been the main way of mounting a Cox .049 since I was a kid many, many years ago. It was what was shown in all the kit plans and model magazine plans. To borrow an idea from the Goldberg Wizard, make two firewalls. One is 1/4" thick and has 4 rounded ears at each corner. Mount the engine to that with your #2 screws. Make an identical firewall either out of 1/8" or thicker plywood and glue/assemble that to the fuselage. Then you use rubber bands to hold the engine to the model by wrapping rubber bands around the ears, so the engine will give or pop off in a hard "landing" !! It really is the way to go for a trainer. Some one may have pictures posted in this section of Stunthanger to illustrate what it looks like.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline Jeremy Chinn

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2024, 11:54:54 AM »
2-56 screws with blind nuts are fine.

#2 wood screws do fine as well. I like Dubro allen head screws for this job.

Offline Jim Roselle

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2024, 02:54:40 PM »
Thanks guys, both great answers. 

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2024, 03:11:36 PM »
I have seen a few Cox 049 models use simple wood screws. But after a bit if time, vibration, oily residue in the mounting screw area, etc., the screws will work themselves loose. Just check them for tightness often.

But if it were me, I would use a bolt-thru method.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2024, 04:00:41 PM »
Screws are fine.  Just make sure that you plan for the oil soaking.  Consider giving the mount a CA bath before you fly it.  Make sure it has soaked in and set before you try the screw!  Alternatively, if the plane lives long enough you can drill out the holes and put a wood dowel in the hole then drill and screw into it.  That is what I used to do after my flying skills increased to the point that the 1/2 life of the plane was not used up by the trip to the field!

Ken
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2024, 04:33:40 PM »
Mr. Jim,

If you don't mind deviating from the stock firewall, you could employ a plastic mount. Cox International may have them still, as should EX Model Engines (and I bet Mecoa too). Also quite easy to find on the 'Bay. It would have a slot between flanges that straddles your fuselage, and a plastic firewall. They are usually molded to take a Babe Bee or horseshoe backplate product engine.

I only show this as another avenue to consider. If you slot the fuselage (or drill one hole oversize), you get the added benefit of being able to adjust your up/down thrust by simply loosening screws and pivoting the mount.

https://coxengines.ca/building-supplies/cox--049-engine-firewall-mount-control-line.html

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2024, 06:05:27 PM »
             Jim, the Skyray ALWAYS breaks it's nose off at the front of the leading edge. The engine stays on the firewall with wood screws just fine. I CA the nose  back on and it's good until the next knockout. About the 3-4 time the sensitivity calms down a bit which is good.  Essentially, where the cheek blocks stop which is the front of the leading edge. I'm not certain if they're built yet but adding some 1/64" ply or even 1/32" to both sides of the fuse and extending it back onto the wing a minimum of 1/2" works wonders.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2024, 07:23:08 PM »
I built some Skyrays for the Sig contest and used 2/56 Allen head capscrews and blind nuts.  In retrospect, #2 lag screws would have been good enough.

I extended the engine reinforcement some and it worked OK.  If I did it again (unlikely) I would extend it more.

The wing warped because I covered it with iron on plastic.  I replaced the warped wing with a bigger and thicker wing with dope.  Even with a small weight penalty, it flew a lot better.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 08:14:53 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline Jim Roselle

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2024, 09:09:03 PM »
             Jim, the Skyray ALWAYS breaks it's nose off at the front of the leading edge. The engine stays on the firewall with wood screws just fine. I CA the nose  back on and it's good until the next knockout. About the 3-4 time the sensitivity calms down a bit which is good.  Essentially, where the cheek blocks stop which is the front of the leading edge. I'm not certain if they're built yet but adding some 1/64" ply or even 1/32" to both sides of the fuse and extending it back onto the wing a minimum of 1/2" works wonders.


I’m adding 1/32 ply doublers to 1/2” past the LE. Also extending the nose 1/2” to address the balance issues with a product engine or tee dee. I figure the 1/2” nose extension on my sons will slow down the responsiveness with a babe bee and make it a suitable trainer.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2024, 08:17:48 AM »
Another good approach for children's trainers is dispense with threaded fasteners and use rubber bands.  Put dowels in place of the bolts and provide an anchor rod behind the engine mount.

A broken gum band can cut your losses.
Paul Smith

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2024, 11:01:37 AM »
Mr. Paul,

I'll remember this one!

Thanks much.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2024, 11:27:30 AM »
Another good approach for children's trainers is dispense with threaded fasteners and use rubber bands.  Put dowels in place of the bolts and provide an anchor rod behind the engine mount.

A broken gum band can cut your losses.
From the looks of the glow plug fins it worked.  #^
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: #2 wood screws
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2024, 12:55:22 PM »
  I would be afraid of the dowels breaking off, and if you made them out of metal then breaking the ears off the back plate. Some one is making new ones from aluminum now but why break it if you don't have to. The zinc castings that the back plates on Cox engines can get pretty brittle with age. Two plywood fire walls, like used on the Goldberg Wizard, with one built into the fuselage and the engine attached with number 2 screws to the other, then rubber bands hold the two together works extremely well. All the engines mounted on the TuffBaby trainers used at Oshkosh have been crashed more times than most can imagine and we never broke a firewall or broke anything on an engine.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)


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