Author Topic: BHM 1/2A auto gyro (Read 31214 times)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #200 on:** January 24, 2007, 09:16:30 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 24, 2007, 08:31:27 AM

I just found it: www.controllineplans.com

He calls it a "1/2Arrow", kinda clever when you think about it. 30" span, 254 sq. in. Listed under his "1/2A or so" page.

If you look in his "Sorts" (sports?) category, "designers" page, you can find both the 1/2Arrow ("Barry Baxter designs") and the original Fierce Arrow 400 ("Bill Netzeband designs") for comparison. Frankly, Frank (hehe) I think he missed it...made a really cool looking ship look rather ordinary. We might could do better.

--Ray

Thanks Ray. I just went and looked. He did miss it by quite a bit. I added the link to my favorites for future reseach (theft).
I do think we could do better. I have some ideas. Do you think we should get a thread started so as not to hijack this one?

And speaking of the gyro---------I'm waiting on some epoxy to cure and am trying a new experiment. See picture.

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #201 on:** January 24, 2007, 10:24:28 AM »

Frank;
It would still be legal at our Musciano event. The only thing is what event would you enter it in? It may not be aerobatic, and I do not think it would be fast, but it would be a blast to see.

Leroy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #202 on:** January 24, 2007, 10:38:09 AM »

Quote from: Leroy Heikes on January 24, 2007, 10:24:28 AM

Frank;
It would still be legal at our Musciano event. The only thing is what event would you enter it in? It may not be aerobatic, and I do not think it would be fast, but it would be a blast to see.

Leroy

You got me there Leroy. At least I could fly it and enter it in the beauty contest. I'm hppy it's legal anyway.

Have you had a chance to work on yours?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #203 on:** January 24, 2007, 03:11:49 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 24, 2007, 09:16:30 AM

Thanks Ray. I just went and looked. He did miss it by quite a bit. I added the link to my favorites for future reseach (theft).
I do think we could do better. I have some ideas. Do you think we should get a thread started so as not to hijack this one?

And speaking of the gyro---------I'm waiting on some epoxy to cure and am trying a new experiment. See picture.

Whatcha doin'--carving a face into Larry's little pilot doll? Cute...

I just put the base color on mine; probably 1 more coat of it, then masking for the trim. Then I'll post pics.

Yup, I think a new project deserves a new thread--meanwhile, check it out: We're on page #5! A new record!

--Ray

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #204 on:** January 24, 2007, 04:56:11 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 24, 2007, 08:31:27 AM

I just found it: www.controllineplans.com

He calls it a "1/2Arrow", kinda clever when you think about it. 30" span, 254 sq. in. Listed under his "1/2A or so" page.

If you look in his "Sorts" (sports?) category, "designers" page, you can find both the 1/2Arrow ("Barry Baxter designs") and the original Fierce Arrow 400 ("Bill Netzeband designs") for comparison. Frankly, Frank (hehe) I think he missed it...made a really cool looking ship look rather ordinary. We might could do better.

--Ray

Hey I even have 2 PAW 1/2A's

WOW this topic is 5 pages long already and I haven't even started my auto gyro

frank carlisle · « **Reply #205 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:27:29 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 24, 2007, 03:11:49 PM

Whatcha doin'--carving a face into Larry's little pilot doll? Cute...

I just put the base color on mine; probably 1 more coat of it, then masking for the trim. Then I'll post pics.

Yup, I think a new project deserves a new thread--meanwhile, check it out: We're on page #5! A new record!

--Ray

Yup---I took a shot at carving the pilot out of Larry's clothespin. The wood is really, really hard!! And I'm not much of a wood carver. I stuck it in there anyway. I cut off the clothes pin right up to the pilots head so he probably weighs less than most store bought pilots. Maybe even less than a packing peanut. No fingers were hurt.

Even though the pilot looks more like a skull or the villain in Halloween 3 I'm posting a picture anyway.

I also tried gluing that plasic windshield in behind my windscreen frame but the glue (CA) wouldn't take. Any ideas?

5 pages!!! I think 1/2A projects lend themselves to online building. Could you imagine how long a thread would be if we tried a .40 size stunter?

I'll ship the box out to you Monday. I think a good time to start that new thread would be when you get the box.

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #206 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:58:33 PM »

DON"T SHIP THE BOX!!!! I allready got it I just have been too busy building cabinet for the downstairs bath.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #207 on:** January 24, 2007, 06:02:00 PM »

Quote from: Mike Spiess on January 24, 2007, 05:58:33 PM

DON"T SHIP THE BOX!!!! I allready got it I just have been too busy building cabinet for the downstairs bath.

I'm sending the box to Ray.

I was wondering why you weren't building your gyro. Now I know. You're building a cabinet. How much does it weigh?

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #208 on:** January 24, 2007, 06:04:12 PM »

Don't have a scale big enought to weight it

frank carlisle · « **Reply #209 on:** January 24, 2007, 06:32:43 PM »

Quote from: Mike Spiess on January 24, 2007, 06:04:12 PM

Don't have a scale big enought to weight it

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #210 on:** January 24, 2007, 08:20:05 PM »

Frank, I guess you could try good ol' epoxy; or some thinned-down Goop would probably stick to it. (The windscreen, I'm talking about.)

Pilot looks...a little excited, or something.

--Ray

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #211 on:** January 24, 2007, 08:50:22 PM »

Frank,
I know that this is a far out idea but how about Tube Glue for the windshield? Say.....Testors.
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #212 on:** January 25, 2007, 03:47:00 AM »

I have to position the plastic onto the windscreen frame which means it will be sliding around some. It would get smeared if I used any of the glues you guys mentioned. The CA bleeds in and that's what I need. Maybe some kicker will do it.

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #213 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:11:36 AM »

Frank;
Go to the hobby shop and pick up some RC56 or formula 56 (what ever they are calling it these days) It is also know as canopy glue it goes on white thin and runny, but dries crystal clear in about 24 hrs. I have never had a canopy come off whether it is glued to wood, dope, or $kote.

Leroy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #214 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:24:17 AM »

Quote from: Leroy Heikes on January 25, 2007, 05:11:36 AM

Frank;
Go to the hobby shop and pick up some RC56 or formula 56 (what ever they are calling it these days) It is also know as canopy glue it goes on white thin and runny, but dries crystal clear in about 24 hrs. I have never had a canopy come off whether it is glued to wood, dope, or $kote.

Leroy

Does the stuff set up pretty quick?

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #215 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:56:19 AM »

Frank;
It will hold in about an hour, but should be allowed to dry over night before going flying.
Leroy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #216 on:** January 25, 2007, 06:03:04 AM »

Thanks Leroy.

Do you have any idea when you'll start your gyro?

bob branch · « **Reply #217 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:51:07 AM »

Leroy

You mentioned you have never had RC 56 let go when glued to cote. Do you cut a srip in the cote to expose the underlying wood or have you had sucess without cutting the strip to expose the wood? I've always cut the strip but I'd sure like to not have to.

Bob

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #218 on:** January 26, 2007, 05:50:59 AM »

Bob;
On my RC ships I did not cut a strip when using RC 56 to glue to plastic coverings. I have not used RC 56 to glue the canopies on plastic covering on my C/L models because most of my C/L planes have had dope finishes, and it sticks to the dope just fine. I at least have not lost a canopy when using RC-56.

Leroy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #219 on:** January 28, 2007, 03:28:19 AM »

Well, I finished my Autogyro, really just about finished it off...tried to get "too cute" on finish and made a mess of it, very disappointing, I don't like it at all, bad color scheme, worse execution...kinda ashamed to post any pics of it (yes, I will, give me time to mourn awhile first). I feel like repainting it all black like I threatened to do before, but it'd be so heavy then it probably wouldn't get off the ground. Maybe it would taxi fast enough to get the rotor spinning, that's really all I wanted to see anyhow...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #220 on:** January 28, 2007, 03:52:24 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 28, 2007, 03:28:19 AM

Well, I finished my Autogyro, really just about finished it off...tried to get "too cute" on finish and made a mess of it, very disappointing, I don't like it at all, bad color scheme, worse execution...kinda ashamed to post any pics of it (yes, I will, give me time to mourn awhile first). I feel like repainting it all black like I threatened to do before, but it'd be so heavy then it probably wouldn't get off the ground. Maybe it would taxi fast enough to get the rotor spinning, that's really all I wanted to see anyhow...

--Ray

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you planned Ray. I'm sure it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

bob branch · « **Reply #221 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:18:05 AM »

Ray

Don't worry about the finish. As Frank delights in telling me (as I am moaning and groaning and trying to breath) "sanding is the soul of stunt." I am currently stripping some early finish of a Strega back down to bare wood. Now that I think of it, maybe I should have tried a stripper... Been at it for 2 weeks now. I am down to the top of one wing panel and the top of the tailplane and I will be done. Besides the results of sanding down a finish can be breathtaking. I believe Frank's Victory got screwed up in the finishing process due to very high humidities and he had to sand a bunch of it down a good bit and refinish. The result was a very high teen point finish. Just look at it as primer.

Bob

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #222 on:** January 28, 2007, 01:10:45 PM »

So you're telling me I should sand the bad finish all off and start over...have you looked at the pictures of this plane? See all those struts? I shudder to think of trying to sand around them to remove the paint. 'Way too much effort to me, especially on a novelty sport plane. But just painting over it would be too heavy. Nah, I think I'll leave it as is for a testament to my unmatched ability to goof up a plane. As Frank said in another thread, it should still fly.

--Ray

bob branch · « **Reply #223 on:** January 28, 2007, 02:05:06 PM »

Ray

I hear ya regarding detail sanding on thin wood. Yuck. Anyway, part of the deal with all these older log fuse planes was when we originally built them as kids none of us knew what sandpaper was or what it was for. I don't think I ever taped a curved line til I did a combat streak as it was on the box with the curvy pattern you see on flight streaks and that was the last plane I completed as a kid before I took up boat building at age 13 and gave up models. Infortuantely, I did learn about taping curved lines in boat building... much to my chagrin.

bob

frank carlisle · « **Reply #224 on:** January 28, 2007, 04:31:10 PM »

YOU GUYS!!

Ray just leave it alone and move on to the Arrow. Go fly the gyro.

Bob, wax on wax off. Only with sandpaper.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #225 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:19:53 PM »

I picked up some vinyl lettering from a sign shop this weekend.
How do you like it now??

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #226 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:47:06 PM »

So I guess you're thinking Larry'll give you extra-special treatment, and a few free kits, for being a flying advertisement for him??? Well, you may be right...

Looks very, very nice. I'll post a pic or two of my disaster in a day or so.

--Ray

Robert McHam · « **Reply #227 on:** January 28, 2007, 08:53:10 PM »

Wow does that ever st it off well! Nice!

Robert

frank carlisle · « **Reply #228 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:11:53 AM »

Larry has pix of a full scale auto-gyro that is hanging in a museum somewhere. It is on the Black Hawk Nodels web site. I copied it to post here. I copied the paint job and then when I had the opportunity to get the lettering I couldn't pass it up. At first I was going to go with Detroit News like the full scale model, but then I figured I could stay on topic better and win brownie points by going with BHM instead. I'll have to take the model apart again to add a coat or two of clear to seal the lettering.
I really like. I'm glad you guys do too.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #229 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:48:56 AM »

Very, very nice Frank ! I didnt realize you were going scale with it! You out did yourself this time!!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #230 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:06:34 AM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on January 29, 2007, 06:48:56 AM

Very, very nice Frank ! I didnt realize you were going scale with it! You out did yourself this time!!

Thanks man...............I didn't know I was going scale either till I saw the picture of the full size plane. It looked just right so that's where I went with it. Now to see what it does in the air!!

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #231 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:14:39 AM »

Very nice Frank! I am going to use one of your pictures on the box end flap. You the man!

Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #232 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:17:55 AM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on January 29, 2007, 08:14:39 AM

Very nice Frank! I am going to use one of your pictures on the box end flap. You the man!
Larry

That's great Larry....It would be great if you could put the picture on the box lid too!! I'd have to buy a bigger hat......C'mon man do it.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #233 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:23:06 AM »

You are shameless...

frank carlisle · « **Reply #234 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:27:07 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 29, 2007, 08:23:06 AM

You are shameless...

HO........in Detroit I'd be called a HO!! HO HO HO

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #235 on:** January 29, 2007, 09:44:09 AM »

I used one of your earlier pictures with the blue background and no lettering, I do not want people to think that decals come in the kit. Now you need to buy another just to show it off.

Larry

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #236 on:** January 29, 2007, 01:18:37 PM »

OK guys, here they are...for your viewing pleasure.

I must admit, it doesn't look quite so bad with the cowling attached...or else I'm just getting used to the ugliness.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #237 on:** January 29, 2007, 01:21:17 PM »

I'm not laughing..........looks o.k. to me.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #238 on:** January 29, 2007, 01:29:04 PM »

Every time I look at it, I think of a giant clown shoe. I guess it's the colors, first of all...then the bleeding under the tape, ad the trim color edges getting raggy from pulling the tape off...don't make me go on.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #239 on:** January 29, 2007, 01:42:52 PM »

All of that for sure............the scheme saves it. the lettuce edge could go away. that's what mine looked like when I first took the tape off. they always bleed for everybody. that's why they invented the touch up gun.

what kind of paint is on it?

Dennis Vander Kuur · « **Reply #240 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:21:20 PM »

Ray,
Your autogyro looks great! I paticularly like the way the engine's blue cylinder adds a third color to the paint scheme. Like I told Frank, I have really enjoyed following you two in "The Adventure of the Gyro Twins".
DennisV

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #241 on:** January 29, 2007, 02:50:08 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 29, 2007, 01:42:52 PM

what kind of paint is on it?

Rattlecan Rustoleum of course...I heated up the cans as I always do (in hot water, not on the stove!) and did my spraying in my unheated garage as usual, but I think the sub-zero temp was too much for it, for one problem. Never have any trouble in temps down to 20s or teens...Then I touched up the worst spots (yes, there were much worse) with my wife's fingernail polish (don't tell, don't tell). Biggest problem with that is, she doesn't have any white...

Another saving grace is by the time I got the pics reduced to 60k or thereabouts, they had lost much of their detail, disguising some of the booboos. Planes always look better in pictures than in person, you know? Oh by the way, Frank, these were taken with my new camera. On the originals, you can zoom down to a gnat's whisker and not lose any clarity at all--gonna be great for showing tiny details of things. If I can figure out how to control it.

Only thing that really turned out satisfactorily to me was the frame around the windscreen, again painted with fingernail polish. nice and delicate, not overbearing, just enough to define the windscreen. Say, fingernail polish IS fuelproof, isn't it?

Dennis, I appreciate your remarks. The blue cylinder does add a little interest. My first intent was to go with a two-tone blue color scheme to complement the engine, but changed my mind; I was afraid I'd end up with clashing blues!

"Gyro twins..." clever. I been called lots worse. We're infamous, Frank.

Finished my other projects, now excitedly awaiting the Fierce Arrow plans.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #242 on:** January 29, 2007, 03:43:37 PM »

SEE..........I TOLD YOU IT WASN'T SO BAD.

If Dennis likes it...it's golden.

I've never tried Rustoleum but based on your other models I'd say the sub zero temps didn't help much. And shame on you for using your wife's nail polish!! I hope you know of course that she knows you do that sort of thing. Women just know. Now that I think of it we men are lucky in the respect that we have nothing women can or care to sneak in and use.

Your new camera seems to be doing real well. The pictures are very nice. Lord knows we need them in our line of work. And speaking of work the job you did on the LG fairings came out good.

I guess we'll be moving on to the Arrow thread next eh Ray??

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #243 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:28:29 PM »

Oh, I forgot...it weighs in, RTF, at exactly 6 oz. I was hoping for a little less but I guess that ain't bad what with the extra hardwood I put in for the MM. And wonder of wonders, the balance came out exactly right! 1/2" behind the LE.

Oh yeah, I'm more than ready for the Arrow. We almost need a new clean thread just for the construction stuff. We about filled up the current one just deciding which one to build.

Maybe I'll post a pic or two of my recently-done "other projects"--"new & improved" prototypes of my Minnie Delta and LilGeo designs. You know me, always tinkering trying to make 'em better.

--Ray

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #244 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:30:31 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 29, 2007, 01:29:04 PM

Every time I look at it, I think of a giant clown shoe. I guess it's the colors, first of all...then the bleeding under the tape, ad the trim color edges getting raggy from pulling the tape off...don't make me go on.

It looks just fine Ray! I think you were just beating yourself up a little like we all do when expecting more.
Heck, by the way you were carrying on, I was expecting to see something my cat would fingerpaint(pawpainting)

!!!! It looks like a good companion to Franks. Just go fly it when you can chip the ice off the door handles of the car! It'll look great in the air. Besides, you didn't want a front row stunter finish anyway..its meant to be a little goofy lookin'!!

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #245 on:** January 29, 2007, 04:34:09 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 29, 2007, 01:42:52 PM

All of that for sure............the scheme saves it. the lettuce edge could go away. that's what mine looked like when I first took the tape off. they always bleed for everybody. that's why they invented the touch up gun.

what kind of paint is on it?

You can always go over the raggedy edges with a straight edge and permamarker for a new dimensional appearance.

bob branch · « **Reply #246 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:18:51 PM »

After looking at what you guys kick out in half A stuff I'm glad I didn't build with you. Don't think I could finish a light half A to that level. Hmmm, I'll just stick to ultracoting my full stunters rather than compete with you guys.

HB~>Bob

Robert McHam · « **Reply #247 on:** January 29, 2007, 06:46:30 PM »

Ray, it really does look good. I would be proud to say that I did that!

I hate to change the subject guys but I feel I must.

I have been watching this thread ever since I signed up here and the question in my mind is:
Should the rotor blades have a positive angle of attack as I have seen pictured here on this thread or should they have a negetive AOA?

I remember reading about an autogyro model in Flying Models (Now not sure) and the rotor blades were to be mounted with negative incidence.
This struck me as very odd because I felt it would not provide lift that way. It was explained in the article how this was correct (I really do not remember the argument for this) but the author made it sound right.I think it was to get the rotor to rotate in the proper direction.
When I saw the pics here I thought it to be wrong so last night I did some research and found that you could go either positive or negative (so now I am really confused.)
What I gained from this was that with the proper airfoil you could get faster rotation from the rotors thus more lift generated. Down side to this was that you almost always had to start the rotor (rotors) spinning manually (or even mechanically) as it was much more difficult than if the rotor had negative incidence.
Downside of negative AOA was that the rotor would not spin as fast thus less lift. Upside to this was that the rotor almost always would spin on its own with almost no need to spin the rotor in advance.

So... can someone smarter than me tell me how this is supposed to work properly?

Robert

frank carlisle · « **Reply #248 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:09:10 PM »

Well Bob you've raised some good questions there.
Thanks for the kudos on our work.

Bill Little · « **Reply #249 on:** January 29, 2007, 07:42:11 PM »

HI Frank,

I must say that I am absolutely impressed with your model! It looks like it should be MUCH bigger! The finish is great, and it really looks neat.

Bill <><