Ray----that blank check still needs to be signed, so I still have leeway. I would hope that letting Bob bask in my glow would be return enough.

Now the pictures of the balloon are totally excellent!! I get the picture.

Just one question here Ray. Need I be concerned as to the relationship of the "floppy tank" in regards to it's being level with the needle valve?

No doubt it makes a difference, but maybe the 1/2As aren't as sensitive to it as the bigger engines...or maybe my skill level is low enough I don't notice such problems.  I just set the container on about the same level as the engine and have at it...it seems to work.  We're not looking for a 4/2/4 break, you know, just a reasonably consistent flat-out run.

--Ray

Frank

That was my son's. He flew it some then lost interest. He also did a scratch build .15 plane. They were all given away before the great move 5 years ago. Along with all my other stunters, including a Saggita, a stilleto, My highly bashed and wonderful flying Tutor... with the 8 inch longer span and 22 in wide tail and the Big Art os .35's and most regretable of all, my Veco needle nose spinners. Yes, I know. Last summer I spoke with kid I gave them all to who really wanted to get into flying. He was visiting friends here on the Island. He couldn't remember what he did with them before going to college. His mom says they no longer have them but can't remember what they did with them.

Here are pics of the plane, a 21 in Scientific builtup wing P-40 with a Baby Bee 0.49 and I think a Wren 049 but not sure of that one. I emailed a more detailed pic of the motors to you.

bob

I did the same thing you did Bob. When I dropped out in '86 or '87 I sold my stunters to the bar at City Airport and gave the rest of the stuff away. I went back years later to see if the planes were still there. They were in a backroom with holes punched through the covering. There was a moment of pain there seeing that.
Yes....the pix you sent were great!! I hope you know that I will put the plane and engine to good use. Also you're welcome to handle time whenever you wish.

That's very nice Ray........the cowl cut outs are very well done. I may have to add cheeks on the sides of mine too because it looks really good.
Not yellow?

Ya know Frank, you could make a cyclic controlled by down elevator input that would reverse the pitch of the rotor blade and it would fly inverted....
    ...
             ...
                     I just do it to get Frank's mind working. Keeps him young!

bob

Now I gotta think of a finish scheme.

--Ray

How about yellow on yellow? Maybe some yellow trim(yellow checkerboard or yellow stripes) and yellow tipped rotor blades??  ~>

Raay----I need a quick reply here..........

Can you tell me about how long a run I can get from  half oz. of fuel with the Cox production engine?

Maybe 3 minutes, depending on prop, needle setting, etc.  You might stretch it to 4, but certainly no more.

--Ray

Well.....I think 3 mins. is plenty of time for this model so I'll go with the 1/2 oz. fuel tank. What do you think about a 3 minute run Ray?

Making the fuel tank took 3 tries so far. I tried to get it set up like the Cox PT-19  figuring that would give me a good run. The fuel tank in the pix satisfies those requirements. I did finally gouge through the fuselage making enough room for the tank but I glued a lil' piece of balsa in the hole and now you can't see where I gouged through.
I wanted to leave space between the back of the firewall and the tank so the engine could get plenty of air to breathe and also so the motor mount screws couldn't puncture the tank. Also I wanted to keep plenty of balsa where the rotor post comes through for adequate glue surface and structural strength. So I'm thinking the location I have the tank in is optimal.
Do you think we're driving Larry nuts with all of this to-do over a model that 12 year old kid put together in 3 hours? AND........we're getting more mileage out of this thread than a thread about a hi-zoot full bodied stunter.

Larry has given up and went on vacation. I will see you guys in about a week, I am sure that you will have test flown it by then. 
Larry

I kinda figured you were keeping an eye on us Larry. Can you imagine how tough your life would be if we were your design team?
  Oh..........and let's not forget the Mike Spiess and Leroy Hiekes are out there somewhere with the same model. At some point they're going to chime in.........and if Ray and I have missed something you can pretty much count on those guys to find it!! Plus I'm sure they will each somehow manage to complicate this model even more.

Build a model straight as is, right out of the box?  Where's the fun in that?

Tank looks good, Frank...will it sit higher than the engine?  May have a gravity-feed flooding potential if so. At worst, I guess it could just be held nose high during fueling/starting.  Where will the fuel line exit, top? side? bottom? Just curious.

As far as I'm concerned, a 3-minute run is just fine for sport flying.  With a fast plane, I sometimes find even that a little long!  I guess a serious stunter would need a 6- or 7-minute run, huh?  Which is why I have a 1.5 + oz. tank in the LIttleAxe. 

I'm sure Larry had no idea what he was getting into when he sold us these kits!  And about that 12-year-old and the 3-hour construction...with all due respect, I think he's pulling our respective legs. 

--Ray

Yeah!!-------whoever heard of building according to plan? That is exactly why I avoid teaching other guys how to do things. They always vary course, and that's frustrating.

The tank pick up tube is a little lower than the screen on the back of the engine, hopefully (probably) it won't syphon.

The fill tube will stick out of the top and the pick up and overflow tubes will stick out of the bottom.

I'm relieved that you figure 3 mins. is plenty of run time for sport flying and I agree. A stunt run needs about 5 1/2 mins. plus an extra minute for getting to the handle etc. So your 1 1/2 oz. fuel capacity in the LittleAxe seems about right.

Larry will probably block e-mail from me. And you. Probably we'll be lucky if he ever sells us another kit.

You forgot the yellow polka dots, and the "yellow dog" insignia.

Just for that, I'm makin' it black!

--Ray

Mebe some of that"pink" I used on the QBee..Cool Tank Frank! 3 minutes may screw you right into the ground though!! Naww, it'll be just right...I like this here project, I probably could of made it even more complicated with a Fox 15 on the nose...

Frank

That tank is so small I couldn't see it with magnifying glasses 

Its about as bad as indoor electric stuff! I'll stick to the bigger stuff I can see.

bob

Bob, I took your comment on the tank to heart and made a bigger one.

Actually in all of the excitement I plumbed that tank  so that the pick up tube was on the inside back corner, which of course we all know will not work. So I got out a Perfect brand fuel tank and took it apart and plumbed it for the auto-gyro. Naturally it didn't fit so I hogged out more balsa and got it in there. Finally the fuel tank and engine dilemma is solved and I can move on. Now to see what else I can complicate and do over a time or two.

Man, Frank, that tank doesn't look much better than that piece of cr*p you pawned off on me. (hehe)

what's the capacity?

--Ray

Lookin' good, lookin' good.  Where'd you get the neato spinner?

Notice your thrust line is a little higher than mine.  Wonder if that'll make any difference, and which one's better?  Mine certainly makes the glow plug more vulnerable to those landings about 2" BGL (Below Ground Level).  I'm getting pretty good at knocking off the glowplug post, I've got I think 4 Nelson plugs now with my "extended post" mod.

--Ray

Hi Leroy, I got that check the other day,thanks.
I hope you do get a camera. You'll be impressed with how much money you save on film and developing.

Ray, that extended posst on the glow plug looks like it's begging to get knocked off.

It is snowing here in Detroit maybe a half inch so far. It's been a month since I went flying. I miss it.

It's been even longer since I've flown my stunter Ray. Every time I walk by it I think about the fuel residue in the fuel tank congealing. Oh well.
I don't feel so bad about the weather now that I know it's even colder and the snow is deeper at your house.

I think what I'm going to do is a dope finish on my auto-gyro. But rather than assemble it and then finish it, I think I'll get all the parts fit and then put a finish on them and then do the final assembly. I think I'm going to go ahead and do scallops on the wing and fuselage. Probably in white with the scallops being blue. Then some red trim. Rotor blades black with yellow stripes on the tips. A pilot of course. My AMA number on the wing. Maybe AIRCARLISLE on the sides. Possibly some lettraset lettering. Ahhhhh...........the possibilities are endless aren't they?

Here's pics as promised.  On the wing struts, I drilled angled holes in the wings for the lower end ands cut a double-wide notch in the fuselage for the upper ends. On the pylon struts, a similar approach: Shallow holes drilled in the fuse (1/8" to 3/16" deep), with the upper ends cut at the proper angle to meet the pylon.  I hadda sorta guess at locations, but it looks pretty right, I think.  I'll give you dimensions if you want, or maybe you can improve on what I did.

 Next: Canopy (windshield)!

--Ray

Whaaaat, no stars?

Yes, no stars. In the beginning I just wanted to do one plane with stars. I wound up with a collection.

You sure post little pictures--------are you using a matchbox camera?


Well, you do realize don't you that if you click on the pictures they get bigger?  But yes, the camera I'm using is an early Olympus digital "D-220L" that I got from my daughter when the case cracked and she bought a new one.  It came with a 2 mb card which I found impossible to replace; the biggest the camera will handle is 8 mb, nearly ias difficult to find but I managed to pick one up.  The cracked case is held together with rubber bands, if I had another camera I'd post you a picture!  It also eats AA batteries, has no zoom or video, doesn't make me breakfast in the morning or play my favorite tunes.  Just takes barely-acceptable digital stills.  Someday when my daughter upgrades, I'll get her current one and take a quantum leap in quality.  Till then, just squint Frank, or break down and go find your glasses!

--Ray

Oh yes Ray I do click on the pix and yours are still t-niney........You are probably using your computer program to crop and reduce them right? Maybe a lighter touch on the reduction would give a larger view. I really wanted to get a close look at how you attached the struts so I could copy it.
All is well...........I'd rather get a look at any size picture of your models than none at all.
I added two extra spoons of coffee to the pot this morning and am heading to the basement to try and keep up with you.

Frank,
I really like that "Victory". Thats a stunning color scheme! More info please...

I'm pleased you like it Richard. Last season it got 17 to 19 points at the contests and finally got me some respect in expert stunt.

56 inch span--50 inches long--ST .51 for power--Brodak Dope--171 stars each cut out individually. 56 oz.

Ok Frank. You put it out there, and now curious minds want to know: Where'd you put the one extra star that made it 171? Something ain't symmetrical someplace.

 n~bob

Now your pictures are bigger Ray.........and very informative.
The windscreen is cool. I'm surprised you didn't get a colored one like you did on the Snapper.
To check the leadout position -- hang the model on the leadout lines and check to see the angle the plane hangs at. I always like it yawed out just a tad. Let me know how that works out so I can position mine from your picture.

I did the rotor struts a little different because at the time your pictures weren't there for me to copy cat from. I drilled angled holes into the fuselage for the bases. Then I used a rat tail file to put grooves in the top on the pylon to glue the sruts into. It looks like yours give more glue joint area. I'm hoping mine holds like a jigsaw piece would. I used two hour epoxy. I think they'll hold. Don't you?

Also it looks like the only way to get good fits is to assemble the thing first. So that is what I'll do. What do you think about using a piece of ply on the underside of the wing for a leadout guide?

I airfoiled the rotor today.

You know me Frank, I don't do stars.

bob

Actually, 171 divides evenly into 3 groups of 57.  Or 9 groups of 19.  or 171 groups of 1...

Frank, I think your pylon struts look good.  That bamboo end-grain sure looks odd, with its open cells, doesn't it? Interesting tile pattern, too, around that filler tube.

As to my camera shooting bigger pictures, I guess it took umbrage at your remarks...really, I don't know why they come out different sometimes. 

Lessee, plywood under the wing for LO guides?  I guess you mean under the raised tip..that's a very good idea, you could put several holes to make the leadout sweep adjustable.  Wish I'd thought of that, now I have to butcher my wing to get that front guide out.

Maybe I'll try the Rit dye thing on my windscreen. What color, do you think? (No, this time yellow won't do...)

--Ray

--Ray

I got the model mostly put together. I still have wing struts to fit and the leadout guides to work out.
Larry has some pictures of a full size Kellett auto-gyro on his website. It's a pretty colorful plane. I think I'm going to do this one in red and white and pretty much copy the full sized one's paint scheme. It looks pretty cool to me.

Mine seems to want to come out nose heavy also. Right now it wieghs 5 1/4 oz. so I'm figuring nearly 7 oz. RTF.

I'll be interested in seeing what Mike and Leroy's planes weigh. Likely they'll be pretty much the same.

Did you look at the pix on Larry's web site Ray? The red and white looks very cool. I think I'll put lettering on the fuselage sides. Something like - AIR CARLISLE- maybe.

I used some Dacron string that comes on spools for 1/2 A flight lines to wrap the rotor. I hadn't considered the re-inforcing aspect so much as I thought it would look cool.

I didn't have any choice but to take the time to do the cowl good. You set the bar pretty high on that one.

I didn't get any landing gear fairings in my kit, but yes I think I will put some on. I wish you would have brought that up before I glued the gear to the plane.

After I see how this one flies I might build another one. Next time I'll maybe put the firewall back further. You know the nose hevy condition might be a good thing. The rotor just might make the model fly nose up.