Author Topic: Barecat (Read 6520 times)

Larry Wong · « **on:** April 19, 2017, 08:21:38 AM »

Howard got his Barecat done and it flys good, can do the whole pattern darn spell check 🙄

Trostle · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2017, 10:21:17 AM »

Quote from: Co_Pilot<>< on April 19, 2017, 08:21:38 AM

Howard got his Bearcat done and it flys good, can do the whole pattern

Bob Baron called his design the "Barecat". (Model Aviation, June 1999)

Keith

Larry Wong · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2017, 01:04:21 PM »

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2017, 09:40:25 AM »

Quote from: Co_Pilot<>< on April 19, 2017, 08:21:38 AM

Howard got his Barecat done and it flys good, can do the whole pattern darn spell check 🙄

I agree, great flyer. See mine in Photo Gallery, District 5, third row from bottom.
I keep saying I'll take it off the wall and fly it again, soon I hope!

Roger

Larry Wong · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2017, 05:36:23 PM »

Roger Howard said my comment the his Barecat is very nice and I hope he can fly it soon. Also say that the Pinto is 25% larger and runs on pressure with a TD.049. Howard said your plane looks nice.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2017, 07:32:10 PM »

Thx guys.
Wanted to use Bob Baron's colors.
Norvel .061 is more than enough power for it.
My two 1/2A favorites are the Barecat and 1/2A Pathfinder. Both fly a great, complete pattern.
Waiting for a club member to build and fly his RSM 1\2A Tercel, it promises to be a great flyer also.
Roger

p.s. I think you meant the Pinto is 25% smaller.

Larry Wong · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2017, 03:03:59 PM »

Roger : Howard said his Pinto is 38" wing span and is 25% larger than Original

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2017, 06:12:55 AM »

Quote from: Co_Pilot<>< on May 24, 2017, 03:03:59 PM

Roger : Howard said his Pinto is 38" wing span and is 25% larger than Original

My mistake. I read it thinking he was referring to the Pinto's size vs the Barecat.
Roger

Trostle · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2017, 08:40:24 AM »

Quote from: Co_Pilot<>< on May 24, 2017, 03:03:59 PM

Roger : Howard said his Pinto is 38" wing span and is 25% larger than Original

So, if I am reading this right, the original Pinto has a span of 34", based on the RSM kit. This enlarged version has a span of 38", for an increase of about 12% dimensionally. That works out to give about a 25% increase in area.

The original Pinto has 220 sq in (RSM kit). So this enlarged version has an area of about 275 sq in. I can imagine that it will fly very well.

Keith

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2017, 07:36:11 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on April 19, 2017, 10:21:17 AM

Bob Baron called his design the "Barecat". (Model Aviation, June 1999)

Keith

Hi Keith,

The Model Aviation article mentions that this a rehash of a Wild Bill design from 1980. Do you know if that was ever published? I know he did a version of it as the Doodlebug in three different sizes that was published in Flying Models. And he did a .40 size that was published, and maybe a .25 size? I have a RSM or Mike Griffen .25 size kit. Will have to work one of them in on the list somewhere! Just too cool looking to ignor, but so many airplanes and so little time!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Trostle · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2017, 10:00:49 PM »

Quote from: Dan McEntee on May 25, 2017, 07:36:11 PM

Hi Keith,

The Model Aviation article mentions that this a rehash of a Wild Bill design from 1980. Do you know if that was ever published? I know he did a version of it as the Doodlebug in three different sizes that was published in Flying Models. And he did a .40 size that was published, and maybe a .25 size? I have a RSM or Mike Griffen .25 size kit. Will have to work one of them in on the list somewhere! Just too cool looking to ignor, but so many airplanes and so little time!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

This is not the complete story here, but Bob Baron's Barecat is a derivative of his earlier design called the Humbug in Model Airplane News, Feb 71. Bill Netzeband wrote an introduction to the article. This was a high aspect ratio, flapless design, twin boom, high aspect ratio stabilizer, trike gear for .19, sort of the configuration of the 1/2A Barecat. Bob and Bill thought this was the solution to a better CLPA model. (Sort of explains the family resemblance to the Netzeband Doodlebug series.) (The Humbug design qualified for the finals at the 67 and 69 Nats. Bob Baron was an exceptional pilot. Perhaps the stunt world was not ready for a really quick turning, strange looking model. (Bob Baron did make several US teams to the World Championships and won the Nats in '96 with more "conventional" designs.)

Keith

Larry Wong · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2017, 02:25:35 PM »

Article

Target · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2019, 08:29:01 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on May 23, 2017, 07:32:10 PM

Thx guys.
Wanted to use Bob Baron's colors.
Norvel .061 is more than enough power for it.
My two 1/2A favorites are the Barecat and 1/2A Pathfinder. Both fly a great, complete pattern.

Roger

Hi, Roger-

It looks as though your BareCat is running on a bladder, per the design.
Are you running the AME or the BigMig Norvel on the BareCat?
How much fuel do you load up with on pressure to fly the pattern, and what length lines and pro are you using??

Thanks!!

Same questions for Larry about Howards BareCat if possible, I realize this thread is pretty old.
Just got the BareCat plans from AMA.

R,
Target

Howard.Y · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2019, 10:45:19 PM »

I haven't flown the Barecat in quite a while but as I recall it was a 1-1/2 once of 15%n 18%syn oil. 50ft .008 lines. I changed the control system by using 1/8 rod for the bell crank from top of wing to the bottom with 1/16 plywood braces instead of the platform shown on plans. I found this to be stronger than mount shown in the plans. The engine was a AME.061. Propellers were APC 5x3, 5.5X2 ,5.5X2.5. I used Galbreath and ST needle valves. Handle spacing similar to 1/2A combat planes. Howard

Target · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2019, 12:06:13 AM »

Thanks Howard, for all the info.
And for the heads up on the alternate bellcrank mounting.

R,
Target

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2019, 09:36:01 AM »

Quote from: Target on March 29, 2019, 08:29:01 PM

Hi, Roger-

It looks as though your BareCat is running on a bladder, per the design.
Are you running the AME or the BigMig Norvel on the BareCat?
How much fuel do you load up with on pressure to fly the pattern, and what length lines and pro are you using??

Thanks!!

Same questions for Larry about Howards BareCat if possible, I realize this thread is pretty old.
Just got the BareCat plans from AMA.

R,
Target

Target,
As mentioned on earlier post, have not flown it in years. Engine is Big Mig .061 ( I have three AME's, never had time to try them on the Barecat.) with two head shims, 6x2 APC, Galbreath head and Nelson plug. From memory I used 45' and 48' .008" lines. It is quick.

Roger

Target · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2019, 05:20:55 PM »

Thanks Roger!

Jim Damerell · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2019, 10:10:19 AM »

I just finished one also! Nice to know there are other crazy people out there I can compare notes with. Norvel .061 still being broken in, will be on bladder in the plane.

Target · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2019, 04:33:24 PM »

AME or BigMig, Jim?
Since this plane is almost impossible to use without pressure, I'm thinking it's a great place to use a non BigMig, and save those BM engines for regular designs on uniflow.
Just a question for me if i have an AME .061 or .049, i don't remember.
For strict 1/2A, obviously the .049 would get the nod.

Jim Damerell · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:51:37 AM »

Chris,
The box says Big Mig, Rev Lite. I looked inside before break in, I think it had three ports, but wasn't looking for that, so I might be wrong. I have installed a Fora needle valve and spray bar. Have been breaking in on suction, answers needle OK. If someone knows the difference in venturi size, I will measure it. Otherwise, it's what I got.

Target · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2019, 10:48:55 PM »

Looks like the non- BigMig uses a non bolted in venturi, with the NV going through the crankcase.
See attached.
Run what you got, copy that!!

Jim Damerell · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2019, 03:48:53 AM »

Mine is the Big Mig. Oval venturi hole in the crank case, and bolt in venturi with screen,like you said, run what ya brung!

Target · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:10:01 PM »

So I just got a Norvel from EBay, and it IS a BigMig (5 ports in the cylinder) and the carburetor is GLUED IN...
So apparently, all designs may have started as glued in venturi/carb, then they went to the bolt in version.
I would think that there may be a difference in breathing capability, but maybe the through is so big that the bolt going across it is of no issue.
It is all interesting to me.

Target · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2019, 07:14:56 PM »

Quote from: Jim Damerell on April 03, 2019, 03:51:37 AM

Chris,
The box says Big Mig, Rev Lite. I looked inside before break in, I think it had three ports, but wasn't looking for that, so I might be wrong. I have installed a Fora needle valve and spray bar. Have been breaking in on suction, answers needle OK. If someone knows the difference in venturi size, I will measure it. Otherwise, it's what I got.

3 ports is supposed to be the AME higher winding engine. 5 smaller ports on the Big Mig, I'm told. You can see them from the exhaust port if you have the muffler off and look closely.

Trostle · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2019, 11:59:58 AM »

Quote from: Target on April 05, 2019, 07:14:56 PM

3 ports is supposed to be the AME higher winding engine. 5 smaller ports on the Big Mig, I'm told. You can see them from the exhaust port if you have the muffler off and look closely.

It is easier to see if the things have 3 intake ports (the AME) or 5 intake ports (Big Mig) if the head is removed.

Keith

Target · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2019, 10:38:19 PM »

Of course. But if you happen to just pick one up, you can see the ports through the exhaust port in decent light.
I've never read that before. Probably because it's almost easier to get the head off than the muffler.....

It's interesting to see the evolution of styles of the Norvels. From glued in carbs and venturies to bolt in with a seal.
And different needle valves.

R,
Target