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Author Topic: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig  (Read 824 times)

Online Dave Moritz

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Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« on: September 08, 2017, 11:43:25 AM »
Hello Folks:

Am considering this combination in a project to be built this Winter.  FYI, I flew a Big Mig a few years ago and really liked it (a real screamer on a 6x3 MA prop). I suspect that as a result of incorrect (manufacturer's) break-in directions, it lost compression and died a very premature death. So I intend to break in the one remaining .061 I have using the most current suggestions in this forum and over at R/C Universe.

My question. It seems to me that the .061 might be a tad too much power (at least for me) for for this particular model, given the recommended prop sizes on the order of 5-inch swings. I'm considering using a 6x2 APC on 40-feet lines to bring the speed down a bit. Would the 6x2 be too much load for the motor? I really don't want to ruin another Big Mig. Or, should I just bite the bullet and find something tamer for the BFS?

Thanks.

Dave Mo...


Online bob whitney

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 12:22:39 PM »
the baby streak is a great little airplane. it was designed for a Cox reed valve the .061 would be a HOT setup fly on min lies of 42 ft .it would probably handle 48 ft of ,010 lines.  a 6/3 or 6/4 would be a good place to start . most Novels like pressure of some type .either muff pressure or tank pressure to run properrly
rad racer

Online Larry Renger

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 07:16:03 AM »
I disagree on the prop. In my experience the engine would overheat on either prop. Mine run great with APC 5.5x2.5 props.

Also, the Baby FS was designed to use an Atwood Shriek. The Cox engines weren't around much yet.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline pat king

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 07:57:53 AM »
A Baby Flite Streak is a 137 sq. inch airplane. My 150 sq inch Ringmaster 150 is over powered and will not stunt properly with an .061 engine. The extra power opens up the maneuvers too much. It was designed for a front rotary .049, it is a stunt contest winner in expert and advanced with a front rotary .049. The Baby Flite Streak will fly with an .061 engine, but will not perform nearly as well as it will with an good .049 .

Pat
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Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 05:21:01 PM »
Lots of great discussion here!  You all have convinced me that the .061 is just too much engine for the model.

Given that the Baby FS is set up for a beam mounted engine, it looks like my Cox Babe Bee is out of the question (at least w/o airframe modification). I might just have to take the plunge on a new Brodak 049, that is unless a more appropriate motor can be found on E-Bay. Frankly, I've got an eye on a PAW 80 (.8 cc) diesel there now, but there is a lot of interest in it.

Thanks again Pat, Larry and Bob for your thoughtful replies!

Dave Mo....

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 05:39:23 PM »
Cox reed engines are a little under powered for a baby Flight Streak. 

If you need to slow down your rotation and open maneuvers then go to longer lines. Try going up to to 45 or even longer lines.  I know this defeats the close in fields like the churchyard, between the neighbor's house and your own, or certain schoolyards...

Phil

Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 08:45:19 AM »
Thanks, Phil - longer lines it'll be! They can always be shortened.

So far, no one has raised any objections concerning the Brodak .049 (and certainly nothing on the PAW 80 diesel. No surprise there!)

Dave Mo...

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 06:30:23 PM »
Well, I am an unapologetic Cox fanboy, so I'd recommend a Cox Medallion .049 engine.  Or a TD .049 on bladder.

Mark

Online Dan Berry

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 07:50:40 PM »
Thanks, Phil - longer lines it'll be! They can always be shortened.

So far, no one has raised any objections concerning the Brodak .049 (and certainly nothing on the PAW 80 diesel. No surprise there!)

Dave Mo...

You are probably not gonna be impressed by the Brodak 049. You should get a TD049 for it.

Offline pat king

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 09:54:07 PM »
The .049 Medallion is a MUCH friendlier engine than the TD. The TD was designed for competition, it does not have great fuel suction. The Medallion runs great on suction and is easier to needle than a TD.
 "Real" Baby Flite Streaks are not set-up for beam mount engines. The Baby Flite Streak kits that are set up for beam mount engines are designed that way because the manufacturer of the kits sells beam mount engines.
Pat
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Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 08:13:15 PM »
My baby Lightning streak fly's great on a norvel 049. APC 6x2 and screams on a APC 6x3  42' power pro lines 10 lb test.
Rick Bollinger
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Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 08:48:59 PM »
Some great feedback - this forum can't be beat!

Hmm..., I wasn't aware that the Tee Dee was a hot competition engine (bladder and all). It sounds like I might want to place it in the same stall as the Norvels regarding a surplus of performance. So thanks, gents, for helping make this point. From what Pat suggests, the Medallion is the way to go (but with availability only through the Bay).

Dan and Pat: So, is it a tossup between the Medallion and the Brodak? No question that the Medallion is one sweet mill, but would it really outshine the Brodak for light stunt and sport use?

Rick: An impressive setup you've got there, but I think I've clocked up a few too many years to manage it!

Again, tip o' the hat to you all for your thoughts!

Dave Mo...


 

Online Dan Berry

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 09:28:52 PM »
There is no toss-up between the TD and the Brodak. I have never heard anything wonderful about the Brodak 049, including the one I have.

The TD is a hot engine. You can tone it down with a regular head and a few shims. A 6x3 TF nylon prop would be  a nice help but hard to find.
The Medallion is tamer.

Offline Target

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 10:19:35 PM »
My baby flite streak has a black widow on it. My buddy says it's the strongest BW he's seen, spins 20K on the tach. Don't remember what prop it was, I think a gray thimble drone 5x4....
I have a NIB Medallion I am saving. And a Big Mig .061 that will land in my baby Stuka, when I finish it....It was drawn and cut too wide for a 1/2A, so I have to mod all the front formers first to make it fit right... :-(
My point is that I would save the Big Mig .061 for a 1/2A that has a larger wing and a built up fuse...
Regards,
Chris

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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 01:22:16 AM »
I have two Baby Streaks. One has a TEE Dee .051 and the other has a Revlite Big Mig .061, but an earlier one than the later NV Engines company. Both fly very well and my usual prop for 40' or 45' of line is an Master Airscrew GF series 6x3 cut back to 5.5" or 5.25". With the MA props I usually fly the 45' on breezy days. I do use the muffler on the Norvel. I've also used the APC 6x2 to tame the Big Mig slightly and use the 40' lines. But the APC is the only 6" prop that I feel lets the engine turn up to it's most useful high RPM power band. Bob Z. occasionally brings 1/As to play with and claims my Norvel powered Streak is the best flying streak he's ever seen. I took that as a big compliment coming from him.

The Tee Dee powered Streak is no slouch either, not quite as fast, and it'll also handle the longer lines on a calmer day. Both are run on bladder pressure with 25-35% fuel.

Here's a video of each... back before I new how to fly a real stunt pattern.
First is the Big Mig with an MA 6x3(too much load, bogging it in the tight turns). I later found with the 5.5x3 and even shorter, the engine doesn't slow nearly as noticeably in the turns, and it's much cooler after landing. I plan to fly this one at our club's 1/2A Day in Huntersville next Saturday



And here's the Tee Dee, don't recall which prop, probably the MA 5.5x3. I fly it on a 5.25x3 these days.

The engine has lately started burping out when I turn inverted. The compression is shot too and I wonder if that's why. The cylinder is sideways mounted. I'm open for suggestions on what might be wrong with it.


If you decide to use the Norvel, I did a how-to on RCG about how to retro-fit it with a 128 tpi needle valve. The TD fine NVs are easily available. I get that and the Cox type fine thread spraybar NVAs from Texastimers.com. They also supply all of my bladder making supplies. If you want to use a radial mount firewall they sell a backplate for the TD that screws into the back of the engine and has a round collar with holes all around it so you can bolt it to a flat faced engine mount.

Here's the tutorial on RCG:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1863251

There's also a Norvel break-in post I wrote here on SH:
https://stunthanger.com/smf/12-a-building/cox-12a-engine-question/msg324763/#msg324763

Hope that helps,
Rusty
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 03:53:48 PM by RknRusty »
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Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 03:20:33 PM »
Thanks a bunch, Rusty. I knew there was a resident expert out there when it comes to the Norvel and modifications. Your flying skills are more thanI could ever hope for!

Dave Mo...

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 03:52:42 PM »
            Dave, I like Rusty fly the the Flite Streak with the Norvel .061. I don't find it to be too much power. I also don't know where one thinks the .049 is going to outperform the .061 on this plane. That isn't going to happen. The Norvel .061 Big Mig is in the same size case as the .049 weighing little to nothing over it.  Keeping the nitro to 10% works well in taming the engine. I don't run mufflers but this could certainly tame the power down  a bit more and keep it quieter. The Norvel doesn't like heavy pitch props. I can use a wide variety of props on this engine or use a Cox black rubber ducky 5x3. Use it full or cut it down 1/8" at a time. I keep a large variety of these the smallest being 3 3/4". This can be very effective at controlling speed. I fly my Streak the Brodak version on 42' lines. My line sets are the recommended line length for 1/2A combat which is why I use this size. Of course you could go out a few more feet and it would certainly handle it.  As Larry mentioned though the APC props of the 5" variety are truly perfect for this engine. I prefer the 5.5x2.5 as it offers decent blade area yet still turns up well. The Norvel's don't handle 6" props too well.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 04:13:00 PM »
Thanks a bunch, Rusty. I knew there was a resident expert out there when it comes to the Norvel and modifications. Your flying skills are more thanI could ever hope for!

Dave Mo...

Thanks, Mo,
I appreciate the kudos, but on any technical issues, I will still defer to Larry Renger, a widely proven expert, and Ken Cook, who actually taught me most of what I know about advanced 1/2A equipment.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
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... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Online Dane Martin

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 05:04:23 PM »
I'm not real smart about these engines, but a norvel .061 can be as slow as you want it to be. I like them, they run well and have good hot re-start ability.


Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 06:20:56 PM »
Well Ken, I think you might have talked me into giving my .061 a go. It sounds like prop size and line length provide enough choices for me to arrive at a comfort level. By the way, I've copied from past posts what I suspect are your break-in directions (pre-heat cylinder, Cox gaskets or head, multiple short runs, etc.). I look forward to putting the Norvel on the stand and going through your thoughtful routine. With a bit of luck, I'll end up with an engine more durable than my first one (broken in IAW manufacturer's instructions).

Yup Dane, you've convinced me that the .061 can be flown slowly. Ah but that vertical 3D stuff is amazing!

Thanks all!

Dave Mo


Offline RknRusty

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 10:15:47 PM »
Yep, you'll love it. I highly recommend a starter spring, if only until it loosens up and gets easy to start. I leave them on because they're so helpful for burning off a flood. And they fit many other engines if you zip tie the anchor leg of the spring's wire to the plane's beam instead of clamping it under the engine's mounting tab.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing how this turns out.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2017, 05:45:16 AM »
Lots of great discussion here!  You all have convinced me that the .061 is just too much engine for the model.

Given that the Baby FS is set up for a beam mounted engine, it looks like my Cox Babe Bee is out of the question (at least w/o airframe modification). I might just have to take the plunge on a new Brodak 049, that is unless a more appropriate motor can be found on E-Bay. Frankly, I've got an eye on a PAW 80 (.8 cc) diesel there now, but there is a lot of interest in it.

Thanks again Pat, Larry and Bob for your thoughtful replies!

Dave Mo....

Better to search the resale market for a used TeeDee.
Paul Smith

Online Dave Moritz

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 11:53:16 AM »
Gents:

As tempting as Cox power is, I've got to go with the motor I've got on hand.

So, here's the plan for the .061 Norvel break-in: Starter spring, three or four head shims, 5x3 APC prop, Byron fuel @ 10% nitro and 18% blend (boosted up to 22% with extra castor).  Byron is the only fuel I can find 'round these parts. With the winter construction, air time for the Baby FS will be next Spring.

How enthused are the brethren here about the Galbraith head and Nelson plug setup for this mill?

Thanks!

Mo...

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 02:11:13 PM »
               Dave, it's all I ever use for a few reasons. One, they're the cheapest plug you can buy, they're also the most durable and best plug you can buy. They offer more power over the stock Norvel as well. They last in these engines a very long time even on high nitro. Consider it a must have. The stock Norvel plug is one I would use to run the engine in. It's going to blow and that's a pretty good time to switch over. I typically only require 2 head gaskets with the Galbreath setup.

Online Dane Martin

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 02:51:36 PM »
Agreed. I think that's what's in my baby bi-slob in that video. I use nelson plugs in speed engines, combat engines and these little norvels. Glo plug uniformity!

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Baby Flite Streak and Norvel .061 Big Mig
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 05:02:56 PM »
All I can add is, if it's not cranking for you the first time, give us a PM, and I'll know about it sooner than a regular post. Otherwise, go for it.

Ken, I never thought of using a G/N on my Norvels, even though I've had one rattling around in my 1/2A drawer for years. I always use the Norvel or the Merlin copy because my pocket glow lighter fits them. But now that you mention it, I actually have popped a Norvel plug.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com


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