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Author Topic: Wing area for a Medallion .09?  (Read 2953 times)

Offline Mark Mc

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Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« on: October 25, 2022, 08:49:49 PM »
Hey, All.  Looking for some numbers.  Last week when I was at a club member’s garage, I noticed a Medallion .09 sitting on his bench.  I asked about it and he said he got it from another club member.  The engine was locked up and he didn’t know what to do.  So, I took it home, cleaned it up, and test ran it on the stand.  I took it over to his house this afternoon. 

Initially he started to offer it back to me, but I told him I already had three or four .09 Medallions.  He then asked if I would ever build a plane for a Medallion .09.  I owned up that I probably would.  He said that if I do, cut out two kits and he’d build one also.  The first thing that popped into my head was an All American.  As I was leaving, I asked if he had any preferences.  He said something quick, and profile.  So the All American is out.  I figured I have all sorts of plans for an .09 that I’ve downloaded over the years from OZ, so I have plenty to choose from.

But then, my AADD (Airplane Attention Deficit Disorder) kicked in, and my mind started wandering.  A few years ago I ordered a Sig Super Chipmunk wing kit to build a Sarpolus Challenger “someday”.  Later I decided a .15 sized Challenger would be cool.  Then I thought I’d build a Sarpolus 1/2A Challenger.  So now, I figured “Why not slightly enlarge the 1/2A Challenger for the Medallion .09?”  I’ve been itching to try my bladder pressure Medallion conversion on an .09, so this is perfect.

So what would all you gurus suggest for a wing area on this?

Mark

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2022, 08:08:10 PM »
250 to 260 or so sq. In. But built light. Perhaps get the plans for my Baby Magician and scale it up 5%. As it was designed for a 061. An 09 doesn’t need a much larger model.

The Baby Magician was published in Flying Models. It flies really, really well. Jim Silhavey scored big time on this design. It is great no matter how you scale it.

My published version is an accurate scale down of the model before being degraded for kitting it.

Closer to symmetrical outboard wing, half ribs, laminated wingtips. Updated with tipweight box and adjustable leadouts. An expert pilot stated that it flies like a full size stunter, and he has built two or three of them. (One is still being flown by its third owner).

A classic design I was honored to bring back in a smaller version. And yes, I did get permission to do it.

RSM can cut a set of parts for the published version or can provide plans that you could take to Kinkos to scale up.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2022, 01:40:30 PM »
   Larry;
  Do you remember what issue of Flying Models your version was published in? I just want to reread it.
  Thanks a lot,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2022, 12:15:51 AM »
Okay, I'll go for 260 or thereabouts.  Drawing it up now.  But, I'm afraid I'll have to deviate a little.  Don't feel like doing wing mounted gear.  I'll move it to the fuselage to make things quick and simple.

Thanks for the help,
Mark

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2022, 05:12:22 AM »
             The Stunt Goat .09 used 182 squares and weighed in at 12.5 ounces. Initially it used the Medallion but switched to the TD. This plane has always been on my to do list essentially due to not seeing too many designs around these engines. This was featured in Flying Models 8/99.

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2022, 12:07:53 AM »
Okay, doesn't look that impressive, but the parts are drawn for the Cricut machine.  If I did my math correctly, the wing area will be 256 square inches.  The ribs, one fuselage blank, and fins are 1/16", and the rest are 3/32".  There are three fuselage blanks because the largest thickness the Cricut will do is 3/32", so to get a 1/4" fuse takes two 3/32" blanks with a 1/16" blank laminated in between.  I did this with a Skyray fuselage and it's stiff as a board.  Doesn't bend or twist at all.




I also drew out the parts for a FROG Talisman since I'm so wishy-washy.

Mark
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 12:25:52 AM by Mark Mc »

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2022, 02:07:01 AM »
Oh, you tease and you tickle. I'm dying to see this one go together!

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2022, 12:29:01 PM »
250 to 260 or so sq. In. But built light. Perhaps get the plans for my Baby Magician and scale it up 5%. As it was designed for a 061. An 09 doesn’t need a much larger model.

The Baby Magician was published in Flying Models. It flies really, really well. Jim Silhavey scored big time on this design. It is great no matter how you scale it.


Larry,

I need another project like I need a hole in my head, but I went to Flying Models plans service and found the "Half-A Magician," plan # CD-103, $16.00.  The little blurb says ".049 to .061"     I don't have a Big Mig .061, but I do have a Medallion .049.  The blurb also said the model weighed 11 ounces and I have read on Stunt Hangar that a Medallion .049 can fly up to 14 ounce models.    So, do you think my Medallion would be a good match (not just barely adequate) for your Half-A Magician built to plans with good wood?

Thanks,
Joe Ed Pederson

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2022, 03:56:43 AM »
It should be fine, you just need shorter lines than with a more powerful engine.

The original article was Flying Models January 2000.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2022, 10:36:01 AM »
Sorry for being stone-headed. Does this mean the Baby Magician is the very same as the 1/2A Magician? Since the source is the same (Flying Models), I assume so...but you know what "ASSUME" can also mean.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2022, 05:37:04 PM »
Okay, I'll go for 260 or thereabouts.  Drawing it up now.  But, I'm afraid I'll have to deviate a little.  Don't feel like doing wing mounted gear.  I'll move it to the fuselage to make things quick and simple.

Thanks for the help,
Mark

   I know you have already made your choice, but I was going through a Junior Flite Streak kit I found in my garage today and noticed that it is described as being 230 square inches. Just pointing this out as another option. There isn't much to this model, and while "designed " for a .15, I think an .09 would work, and heck, if you watched wood weight and made a slimmer fuselage, I think an .061 would be interesting.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2022, 09:09:58 PM »
Dan, I've had three Flite Streak ARFs and a Baby Flite Streak.  I'm all Streaked out.  But thanks for the suggestion.  If I'm gonna draw something now, I think I want something different to play with.  Even if it takes me forever (or never) to get built.

Mark

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2022, 06:01:24 AM »
Baby and 1/2A are the same.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2022, 01:31:37 AM »
Well, I cut out the ribs this evening.  Not sure I'm satisfied.  I drew it exactly as Dick Sarpolus drew his 1/2A Challenger.  Sarpolus only sheeted the center section, but no sheeting on the LE or TE.  Not sure of the torsional strength.  We'll see.  Also, these are pretty fat ribs.  Not counting the flaps, the ribs have a 22% thickness.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2022, 12:17:17 PM »
Well, I cut out the ribs this evening.  Not sure I'm satisfied.  I drew it exactly as Dick Sarpolus drew his 1/2A Challenger.  Sarpolus only sheeted the center section, but no sheeting on the LE or TE.  Not sure of the torsional strength.  We'll see.  Also, these are pretty fat ribs.  Not counting the flaps, the ribs have a 22% thickness.


  The Sarpplus Challenger uses basically a SIG Chipmunk wing, and I think he mentions that in the construction article and it has a sheeted leading edge. No reasonwhy yours should not be, and some cap strips from some 1/32" sheet or really light 1/16" should help. Am I remembering this incorrectly?
    Type at you later, 
     Dan McEntee
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2022, 01:10:35 PM »
Dan,  the full size Challenger does indeed use the SIG wing.  But the 1/2A Challenger is different.  I don't remember where I found this one, but it's been a while.




Mark

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2022, 01:59:15 PM »
I'll probably get smoked for this guess:
I suspect that little one is the eBay guy that I believe takes biggies and shrinks them. Then he re-labels for smaller materials. Occasionally he takes the profile and scans/grafts variations of the Lil Jumpin Bean or Baby RingMaster wing onto the plan (can't remember). He goes by RalphSaxton over there.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185472236061
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 03:45:01 PM by 944_Jim »

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2022, 04:51:56 PM »

I suspect that little one is the eBay guy that I believe takes biggies and shrinks them. Then he re-labels for smaller materials.

I doubt this.  This drawing doesn't look like the .35 sized Challenger or the .15 size Challenger construction.  But it does look like Dick Sarpolus' style of drawing (or whoever he gets to draw up his designs).  I'd say it's authentic to Sarpolus.

Mark

Online Dave Hull

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2022, 01:03:05 AM »
And a version that is being flown locally....

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2022, 07:01:41 AM »
And a version that is being flown locally....


    That is a completely different airplane. I think the Bill Noyes design may predate the Dick Sarpolus design, but not sure. The Noyes model is a constant chord wing, but I don't remember if it has flaps or not?? I have the kit of that model. The Sarpolus design uses the Chipmunk wing on the bigger model Reducing to 1/2A size changes a few things . Then there is the Challenger that Keith Sandberg of the Piston Poppers club up in Minneapolis designed. Walter Umland has plans and rib sets for that. it's a .15 size model that would probably reduce a little better I got a hand cut kit of the model from Keith and put it together but haven't finished it yet. It is a no flap design and looks nice. I think there are a couple more "Challengers" out there also> I think that has been an over used name!!
     Are plans available for the Noyes model in the 1.2A size?? A digital file would do.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Wing area for a Medallion .09?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2022, 03:33:38 PM »
Well, my work bench is still covered in stuff that I’m unpacking from the move, so I haven't done any building on the Challenger.  But I did take a couple of hours to do the bladder conversion on a Medallion .09 that I’ve been wanting to do for a couple of years.  Only took a couple of hours, but I haven’t had a project that needed it to spur me on.  It’s basically the exact same thing I did for my Medallion .049 conversion using 5/32” brass tubing and a fine needle valve assembly from a Cox postage stamp engine.  But I wasn’t motivated enough to pull out my good digital micrometer to measure the tubing, so I just held the tubing up to the NVA I pulled out from the Medallion and cut the tube to match the standard NVA length.  Then I took a file and opened up the channel in the middle to match the standard NVA.  I soldered the fine NVA into the tubing and filed the assembly smooth with my jeweler’s files.  I eyeballed it as I carefully filed the assembly, and when I was satisfied I took some coarse sand paper and sanded the assembly lengthwise to keep it from rotating in the venturi body, and then pressed it into the body.  The fit is very tight so I’m not worried about any air leaks. 










I took it to the field today to test run it, but all I had to video it was my crappy phone camera.  It’s a short clip because, well, it’s just an engine running.  Sorry it’s in that stupid YouTube shorts format.  But it was too short for me to bother firing up the video editing program.



https://youtube.com/shorts/yKvhbs_g7Ms?feature=share


Mark


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