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Author Topic: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109  (Read 2628 times)

Offline David Hourston

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Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« on: October 21, 2021, 10:43:15 PM »
Hi,

I would like to know how the original Cox BF-109 with hollow wings compares to the Cox BE-109 with solid wing. 

Thanks,

David
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 12:31:25 PM by David Hourston »
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2021, 06:56:24 AM »
Hi,

I would like to know how the original Cox BF-109 with hollow wings compares to the Cox BE-109 with solid wing. 

Thanks,

David

     It's been a long time since I flew either, but I think the solid wing version may have has an edge in performance. As it was kitted, the hollow wing could flex a bit and was not as stiff. It may have been a bit lighter and had the advantage of being able to replace the wings if damaged in a crash. The solid wing version actually was released twice.  The Chipmunk version (basically the same airplane) was reviewed by noted stunt flier and columnist Ted Fancher in the C/L Stunt column in Model Aviation magazine shortly after it came out the first time. Ted suggested some changes, such as moving the lead outs forward and the addition of some tip weight  to improve performance. Cox took these suggestions to heart and stopped production to make the changes, and even gave it a new part number. The model was capable of the beginner pattern at minimum but could not do it on one tank of fuel. I think it was also capable of the other standard maneuvers also. It's main short coming was that if the wing broke beyond repair, I don't think replacements were available. In all of my model hunting and collecting I have never run across replacement wings for them. I imagine a wing could be cut from foam and made to be a replacement. Later on Cox came out with a third stunt model called Hyper Viper that was very similar to the Chipmunk/Messerschmidt , and there was a Cox Crusader  that had a symmetrical foam wing, but I have not flown one of those nor have ever heard from anyone with flying experience on that model.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2021, 10:57:32 AM »
The solid wing version gained about an ounce over the shell wing.

Both could do all the PAMPA maneuvers, though ovrsize.

I designed the Me 109 and Chipmunk. Mike Pratt designed the Hyper Viper. His had a better tank design.

The Crusader was also my doing. Only capable of basic maneuvers unless modified.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2021, 12:37:28 PM »
Interesting, thanks.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the solid wing Chipmunk and ME-109 are basically the same plane.
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Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2021, 02:05:31 PM »
             I have both versions on the Super Stunter and the Chipmunk. Yes they're the same plane.  Honestly, they both fly poorly. The advantage of the solid version is that it doesn't fall apart or fold up when flying. One crease in the hollow wing version and it's screwed. I ended up with a crease on my outboard wing. I removed the wing tip and glued in a tongue depressor on the underside. However, the foam of the hollow wing version is a very closed cell foam and it doesn't take adhesives very well compared to the solid beaded foam. The other problem with the hollow wing is that it uses strips of a double backed adhesive on the trailing edge. That stuff fails with age  and the wing falls apart

Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2021, 02:23:51 PM »
             I have both versions on the Super Stunter and the Chipmunk. Yes they're the same plane.  Honestly, they both fly poorly.

How do their flying compares to the last stunt plane by Cox,
the Hyper Viper?
Cox Models! Best hobby memories...

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2021, 03:04:25 PM »
             The Chipmunk box made claims on the box that it could fly the entire pattern. I won't dispute that but I will say that I couldn't do that when I first received mine in the early 80's. I'm still flying it to this day and while I could today make it fly the pattern I don't. I fly it for nostalgia and fun. I feel it was one of the best flying Cox models I ever owned but it's weight seems to be the penalty. It just needs to be nursed a bit through some of the more difficult maneuvers. The same goes for the Super Stunter. I don't know if you have a Super Stunter but I have a new elevator, canopy for this plane if you need one.

                I never had a Hyper Viper. Most on here made similar comments that it was down on power and could use a bit more.

              What I find ironic is that my flying buddy has a Cox TD-1 with the Space Bug that uses the metal tank. That was  the most impressive Cox flying plane I ever witnessed. It took him 35 years to find all the required parts and pieces at swap meets to get it into flying condition. it was very impressive for a old timey ARF. I didn't expect that kind of flying ability from it.

Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2021, 03:12:49 PM »
Hi,

Wondering if 15 lb test Spiderwire is enough for these aerobatic models, including the Hyper Viper.

Thanks.
Cox Models! Best hobby memories...

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2021, 04:29:32 PM »
Should be more than enough. Pull test on a typical 1/2A is 5lb.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2021, 05:02:40 AM »
Should be more than enough. Pull test on a typical 1/2A is 5lb.

Ok, so I presume 10lb test Spiderwire will be enough too.

What difference in flight would make using 20lb vs 10lb test lines?
Cox Models! Best hobby memories...

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2021, 07:08:46 AM »
20 lb has more weight and drag. May or may not be noticeable.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2021, 03:11:14 AM »
20 lb has more weight and drag. May or may not be noticeable.

I myself, do find it noticeable.  I see greater line bow on the 20#.  I use 10# for all my 1/2A planes.  The problem for me is keeping enough in yellow.


Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2021, 07:16:41 AM »
How many flights a set of lines usually last?

BTW, I have Power Pro Braided Lines and not Spiderwire, in case that makes a difference.
Cox Models! Best hobby memories...

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2021, 12:08:42 PM »
How many flights a set of lines usually last?


For me?  Not many.  I'll fly a few flights, then someone at the field will forget their handle or not have the right length lines, so I cut the lines on my handle to the length they need and let them use the handle for the day.  Or I fly and decide that I need a different length for the wind conditions and do some cutting.  Or I switch the handle to another plane and need more length, so I make up new, longer lines.  Or any other number of silly reasons why I re-make lines.  I try to keep a handle for each specific plane, but when I build a new plane and want to take it out, I usually can't find a spare handle in my messy shop, so I rob a handle from some other plane that's been sitting forever and remake lines for the new one.  I'm just too disorganized for my own good.

Mark

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2021, 07:57:48 PM »
FYI:
The Hyper Viper was to have the KillerBee .049 engine and in that combination if flew pretty good, it would fly the complete pattern although a bit larger.  “The power that be” killed the KillerBee (cost way too much) and used the production engine.  Because of that it was limited to basic stunts and maneuvers. 

The foam and balsa prototype flew the pattern with ease and a lot of fun to fly.  The wing I cut out from blue foam no sheeting but covered with Fast-cal, the fuse was a built up from 1/16” balsa sheet with built up cowl and Tuttle deck.  But it still flew way better than than most most or/all the models ever produced there.  Yes I flew the TD1 and it didn’t fly too bad but that was lacking engine power like the production engine.  The aluminum wings we pretty fragile and easy to deform at the slightest bump.

Later,
Mikey Pratt

Offline David Hourston

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2021, 07:51:42 AM »
Interesting information about the Hyper Viper. I got one new in box waiting to be flown. Do the installation of a Killer Bee requires much modifications?
Cox Models! Best hobby memories...

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2021, 08:10:26 PM »
Didn't someone kit a clone with balsa fuselage? ISTR Rusty built one a few years back?

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2021, 04:44:23 AM »
Southbridge CNC cut HyperViper in Balsa and even shipped semi ARF versions (pre built wing). I have the ARF version that will never be built.
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2021, 08:36:52 AM »

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2021, 09:46:36 PM »
Southbridge CNC cut HyperViper in Balsa and even shipped semi ARF versions (pre built wing). I have the ARF version that will never be built.

Why not?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2021, 05:03:29 AM »
Did not fully recover from MC accident 2014 and follow on twin strokes. Slowly gifting or selling off my control line hobby accumulations.
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2021, 07:31:31 AM »
As active as I was in that era it is embarrassing to me that I have never heard of the "Killer Bee".  Where does it rank in power to the TD and/or Medallion which I used a lot.

Ken
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox Super Stunter BF-109E and Cox ME-109
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2021, 09:53:35 PM »
 Below the TeeDee, above the Medallion.

Engineered specifically for nostalgia free flight competition. Almost as powerful as a Venom. But not quite. Designed to NFFS requirements, They wanted it comparable to a Holland Hornet, but no better. We cheated a little. 🤭

The NFFS put some restrictions on the Killer Bee  engines that we could ignore on the Venom series.

The Venoms had every trick we knew of. I think a stock Venom still holds the Mouse record set by Paul Giebault. (He helped develop the engine)
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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