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Author Topic: 1/2a reed speed hollow log  (Read 3191 times)

Offline Dane Martin

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1/2a reed speed hollow log
« on: October 20, 2018, 05:02:55 PM »
I just got a wild hare to design and scratch build a hollow log based on Larry's post. I haven't built a 1/2a speed plane in a while, so I'm over due.
It'll be 56 squares. About 18" wing. 14 squares for the tail. Still thinking about tail span, but maybe 4.5- 5 inch?

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2018, 05:04:25 PM »
Fuse design / build

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 05:05:16 PM »
Fuse

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 05:06:22 PM »
Fuse build

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2018, 05:07:29 PM »
Fuse build

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2018, 05:08:09 PM »
Sanded smooth for inspection. I got a light chunk of 1-1/2" balsa!

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2018, 05:38:34 PM »
Building the wing to get a tail figure.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2018, 05:39:37 PM »
Adding a strip of basswood

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 07:05:28 PM »
Finished wing design

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2018, 07:08:05 PM »
Tail design, seeing what it looks like.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2018, 07:10:26 PM »
Wing and tail area.

Wing: 58.375 (to play it safe with the rules)
Tail: 14.1875 or 24.3% of wing area. I was shooting between 20-25% for stability. Let's see if my ideas work.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2018, 07:49:44 PM »
Engine mount install. 3/32 ply. Tite-bond with masking tape to hold it while it dries.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2018, 08:55:33 PM »
Fuse shaped, not hollow yet. Hinges on the elevator.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2018, 11:12:24 PM »
I had mounted the engine to find the CG location. The wing is butted all the way up against the engine mount. I was kinda shooting for that, to make the tail longer. So, I guess I did good.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2018, 11:13:17 PM »
More wing attached pics

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2018, 11:25:45 PM »
Geeeez!  Here we thought you was a quick builder. Now we find out that you let Jagermeister the Cat do most of the work. Hooked him up with some Friskies, then set him on the counter with the handdrill and some new batts and voila, the fuse is now hollow. We don't want to hear any more BOM stories out of you, buddy!

Divot

PS--Does Jager do engine work, too?


Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2018, 06:28:38 AM »
That cat has the most steady sanding technique I've ever seen.
Jaeger is throwing some cox engines together for these projects. There'll be 3 for the speed team.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2018, 09:03:17 PM »
So now that I've got the building technique down, I'll make two more. One for Joey, one for Dan. I will make plans available, based on next weekend's maiden flight. Lol.

First coat of dope

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2018, 12:17:08 AM »
If we see cat hairs in the finish, we're gonna know who did the real work....

Divot

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 06:36:59 AM »
If we see cat hairs in the finish, we're gonna know who did the real work....

Divot

And you guys all thought camel hair brushes were the cats meow.....

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2018, 09:10:56 AM »
  #^ Hello Dane!

I've been following this build with a lot of interest, I have a question about the final sanding & finish. Do you use clear dope as a sanding sealer? What are you going to use for the finish?

I would love to see the plans for the "Zippy".

RK Flyer  CLP**
If you come to a fork in the road,,,,Take it!

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2018, 10:09:42 AM »
Since this one is simply the prototype, it'll be nothing but clear. I've sanded it down to 600 grit. So it'll be ok looking. It's very light. So much so, that I didn't hollow out a portion of the tail, and it's still going to end up nose heavy. After the controls are installed, if it's nose heavy I'll see about altering the plans. If all goes well, I would like to get plans and a build published in AMA!

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 07:49:07 PM »
Bellcrank and leadouts are now done. Push rod z bend is done. I'd love to be done, flying it this weekend. But I don't know if that will happen without epoxy finish.

So for the solid lead out's on my 1/2a's I make a little P in the wire. Then I wrap and solder that.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 09:12:13 PM »
Is that wing 1/8"? If the plane gets up any speed the tips will wash in and put on the brakes. Should be 3/16" medium balsa with .56oz fiberglass for a speed plane.

Motorman 8)

It is, but for reed valve, I haven't had an issue with this type of wing construction. I honestly think with the harder wood being that close to the leading edge, it discourages twisting. Well, that's my uneducated guess anyway.
When I monoline this thing, wing constructing will change.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 10:00:24 PM »
I don't do speed...but why is the rudder in the bottom?
I'm just trying to understand.
Oh, and I envy the speed with which you can build!

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 10:21:19 PM »
I don't do speed...but why is the rudder in the bottom?
I'm just trying to understand.
Oh, and I envy the speed with which you can build!

The sub rudder helps in proto events. You must take off, get to level flying altitude and stay there. So it's all about acceleration, and of course a good to speed. With the rudder on top, and all that engine power, from a dead stop, the plane wants to come in. Just like taking off in a full scale piper cub. You'd need to stand on the rudder while you take off. So the sub rudder just helps fix that when you're not able to use a take off dolly

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 10:24:20 PM »
I would expect the opposite effect with the construction shown. Here is my reasoning:

1.   The wing is developing lift, unless you are simply swinging a rock;
2.   This lift puts the wing into bending, according to the lift distribution; and
3.   The lift is caused by higher pressure and downwash under the wing, including the trailing edge; and
4.   The wing will deflect based on the constraints and the modulus of the materials; and
5.   The spruce(?) spar due to its higher density (more material in a given volume to take up load), will deflect less than the balsa adjacent; furthermore
6.   The spar, on first examination, is forward of the apparent center of the torque tube if the entire wing had been made of one material, causing the rotation axis to shift forward;
7.   The trailing edge is constrained at the trailing edge due to its attachment to the fuselage; therefore
8.   The wing will tend to wash out (TE goes up) progressively toward the wingtips, not wash in under flight loads.

I flew one OPP (Other Person’s Plane) extensively in Mouse I. It had an aerodynamic quirk that was more amusing than anything else. It was high aspect ratio, with a double-tapered planform. (The planform was “waisted.”) The chord at the tip was tiny. From memory, maybe only an inch or less. As it slowed down and you fed in up control as it was whipped back to the pitman, you sooner or later got to the point where the tips were stalling. It would then rock back and forth in roll all the way to the ground. The wing never quit flying due to the center section and the controllability was fine, but it sure looked like some strange four-legged animal trotting back to the pits, tilting back and forth. We could have gotten rid of this by washing out the tips, but then you have the drag of the twisted airfoil all the time. I know a lot of speed wings have gone with a semi-symmetrical airfoil with a progressive nose radius which causes washout and have probably done pretty well with it. I put a bit into all of my Quickie Rat wings, too.

Putting some fiberglass on the wing would certainly make it more durable. And if there was any tendency towards flutter it would help there too. However, the fastest 1/2A Proto I ever saw had a very flimsy balsa wing (around 40 sq. in.) with some MonoKote over it. The whole plane was incredibly light. It was running a GZ .049 with a glass prop. The acceleration was tremendous. When I let go, it simply disappeared….

Dave

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2018, 10:32:29 PM »
Interesting points there Divot.


Also, for the folks not familiar with speed.....

Proto is a timed event from a standing start. So dead stop, the clock starts when the pitman let's the plane go.
Speed events, you take off, and you're flying. The laps are timed when you put your hand in the pylon, presumably when you're up to speed.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2018, 10:42:50 PM »
I would expect the opposite effect with the construction shown. Here is my reasoning:

1.   The wing is developing lift, unless you are simply swinging a rock;
2.   This lift puts the wing into bending, according to the lift distribution; and
3.   The lift is caused by higher pressure and downwash under the wing, including the trailing edge; and
4.   The wing will deflect based on the constraints and the modulus of the materials; and
5.   The spruce(?) spar due to its higher density (more material in a given volume to take up load), will deflect less than the balsa adjacent; furthermore
6.   The spar, on first examination, is forward of the apparent center of the torque tube if the entire wing had been made of one material, causing the rotation axis to shift forward;
7.   The trailing edge is constrained at the trailing edge due to its attachment to the fuselage; therefore
8.   The wing will tend to wash out (TE goes up) progressively toward the wingtips, not wash in under flight loads.

Dave

Although I completely agree with what you're saying, I'm wondering at what weight and speeds do these things take effect vs what you can "let slide". Obviously I'm going for as fast as possible, but I don't see this going as fast as my bladder tank profi 049 powered profile proto. Same wing construction, similar squares and fiberglassed. It did pretty respectable. I believe I got a first place with it once at whittier. And, this is the prototype. I'm drawing up the plans with pencil, if ya know what I mean....

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2018, 10:52:31 PM »
I can't find the completed pics, but here's some of the profi powered 1/2a. Perhaps I was too inexperienced to feel those affects while flying this? Past tense. My cousin Butters found a way to crash the stuffins out of it. Lol

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2018, 10:59:59 PM »
Does everyone have a cousin named "Butters?"

Divot

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2018, 11:27:59 PM »
Does everyone have a cousin named "Butters?"

Divot

One can only hope

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2018, 10:25:43 PM »
Control system neutral.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2018, 10:28:45 PM »
Deflection up, and down. Nice high resolution controls, and super smooth.
So I'm not sure I like my elevator horn / attachment. I needed a little tail weight, so this made sense to not hollow out the tail. However, I may look into that for number 2. At this rate, I'll end up competing with number 3..... haha.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2018, 11:24:32 AM »
Measured out the LG to get the stance I wanted. Not much left to do.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2018, 11:25:16 AM »
More LG

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2018, 11:25:49 AM »
And glued in

Offline James Holford

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Re: 1/2a reed speed hollow log
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2018, 12:19:42 PM »
Looks great

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Jamie Holford
Baton Rouge Bi-Liners
Lafayette, La
AMA #1126767


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