Author Topic: 1/2A fierce Arrow (Read 81980 times)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #400 on:** March 07, 2007, 04:01:52 AM »

All 3 of us are going to have different airplnes. It's interesting that each guy changes the plane in subtle and different ways. Cn you imaagine what it would be like if ll 3 of us were building one model?

I'll be sending Bill a set of plans. Haven't seen his Snapper yet though.

I'm waiting to see hoe the pin and glue works on the bottom Ray.

LA Heat is coming very close to getting clear topcoats.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #401 on:** March 07, 2007, 07:33:49 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on March 07, 2007, 03:40:35 AM

Roger,
F2 could probably be moved as you suggest; it would have to be resized (smaller) since it would gain a little height, not sure how much without laying it out. Just watch that you don't encroach on your bellcrank space. It would add some weight, as you note the MM beams must be extended with it, ditto the ply. tank floor...then that leaves the landing gear with less support too, especially if you try thinning the MM's down to lose some of the add'l weight. Or if you cut some new gear with more forward sweep, perhaps it too could be moved back and mounted where the beams are supported by F2.

2 oz. fuel capacity is probably worth the effort if you wanted to run a little rich and still have that 6-7 minute engine run that the whole pattern would require. I'll do a little checking in CAD and see what all is involved, later this AM.

I also agree you ought to wait on changing the sheeting to 1/16"--center section sheeting would also have to be changed; to really fit, the TE would need to be the same stuff. I think it might add more weight than we realize. I'll add the underside sheeting this AM also with "pins and glue" and see how it looks.

On that note, Frank, you really want me to post pics of my bad construction??!! What kind of masochist do you think I am? heh heh just kidding. I'll try to get some pics of it too. If the bottom comes out better I'll probably remove the top and redo it anyhow.

--Ray

Well, that'll teach me not to respond at 4:00 AM without looking at the plans...having actually had a look this morning, Roger, I think what you propose re: former F2 will work fine. It will grow in height maybe 1/32" or so, not enough to worry about. The MM beams/tank floor will lengthen by about 3/8", again not enough added weight to notice. About the only valid thing I said in my earlier post is, if you move the landing gear location back with F2, you may want to put a little more forward sweep into it...then again maybe not even that, since the alum. gear put the wheels about 1/4" further forward than the original. You'd be just about putting them back where they were in the first place, give or take 1/8", again not enough to notice.

I was picturing in my mind last night a much more radical change than it turns out to be...maybe you guys ought to just disregard everything I post after, say, midnight or so...Sorry.

--Ray

P.S. pics of my wavy sheeting after breakfast.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #402 on:** March 07, 2007, 08:07:48 AM »

Frank, Ray,
While I am lagging behind the rapid pace you have established, it does provide the opportunity for me to try changes the two of you have recommended and cant implement yourselves due to where you are in the build.
This morning, after I finish sanding the ribs to final shape, I "hope" to look at creating 1/2 ribs for the 3" gaps. Will use the ribs made from templates Ray provided and "create" an airfoil shape mid way between them, running from the LE to the rear of the LE sheeting, ie 3rd spar.
I wont mow the grass this morning, heck, you guys aren't, why should I??

Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #403 on:** March 07, 2007, 09:56:17 AM »

Now that's a precedent...I don't think I'll shovel snow this morning, after all you're not, why should I?

The half ribs may be a good addition, Roger...you might consider stopping them at the 2nd intermediate spar/stringer, that's all you'd need.

Here's the "wavy" sheeting--doesn't show up as much in the pics as in real life, but I think you can see what I'm talking about.

I just glued/pinned one side of the bottom; I'll post pics of it for comparison as soon as I can get the pins out. But preliminarily speaking, I think it will be better.

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #404 on:** March 07, 2007, 01:34:48 PM »

OK here's the bottom sheeting, installed via glue-&-pins; it does come out a little better. But my opinion is: We need a little more support up front; half-ribs (1/3rd-ribs?) would help a lot. I say 1/3rd-ribs because I'd suggest stopping them at the 2nd-from-the-front thin stringer under the sheeting...support is only needed at the LE of the LE (!).

First 2 pics, the glue-&-pinned sheeting underneath. 3rd pic, a comparison with the topside ironed-on sheeting, incidentally still showing signs of straightening out; I may leave it after all. Last pic, specially for Frank, the hole at the LG--I'll be gluing some dense foam in there I think, per Roger's idea.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #405 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:17:58 AM »

Ray, Frank,
I have the "half" ribs drawn, back to the rear of the LE sheeting. Easy to shorten to the spar recommended.
All my ribs cut/sanded to shape. Made a "Tom Morris" notching tool, used on one pair of ribs, works great!
Later,
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #406 on:** March 08, 2007, 05:25:09 AM »

Can you show us a picture of the notching tool?

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #407 on:** March 09, 2007, 06:34:12 AM »

Frank,Ray,
Go to the Control Line Central site, linked to this forum.
Select Tom Morris Building Products, scroll down to SCUT-1. Photo available.
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #408 on:** March 09, 2007, 03:17:57 PM »

thanks Roger----now post some pictures!!

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #409 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:41:12 PM »

Frank,
I will, I will!
Spent a few hours today

on fuel system approaches. A 2 oz. Sullivan clunk tank has provided many great flights on the Pathfinder and I decided it would be my choice. Naturally, it meant more work. I had to widen the fuselage and draw up new F-1 and F-2 and carry through parts. Will hopefully cut same tomorrow and take pics of "parts".
Your(Frank and Ray) photo's were a great help in working out the new tank installation. Hope mine are as useful!
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #410 on:** March 10, 2007, 03:23:38 AM »

OK I got a question for you guys: I'm sorta tentatively starting on the fuselage proper; (by the way, that 1/16" sheet siding is gonna have to be really soft stuff) and it occurred to me: On the Frankestone Arrow we've increased the wingspan by more than 10%, and the area by a little less than that--should we also increase the fuselage dimensions by 10%, +or-? That would add about 1/4" in height, and an inch in length. I'm kind of undecided; having typed this I'm thinking maybe not, maybe it would throw the balance off too much. One thing I really don't want to do is add weight anywhere in the form of lead for balancing. Even though our engine of choice is more powerful, it weighs the same as the original intended power plant; lengthen the fuse by that inch may make it tail heavy. I think I've about talked myself out of it. I just don't want that classy rudder looking too small for the rest of the plane. Opinions?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #411 on:** March 10, 2007, 04:41:03 AM »

Ray-----the larger wing has already added weight aft of the cg. I don't think weight is going to be a killer on this. So if you think that the side view should get bigger then go ahead man, have at it. As far as I'm concerned duplicating the Arrow as presented in the plans and magazine article wasn't ever our intent anyway. We're just using it for a spring board to our own and better flying wing.

Also I would like very much for us to trace out any parts we modify. Roger is making his fuselage wider to accomodate his fuel tank. I'd like to get those parts changes documented for future referrance. Also a photo library of step by step construction on each of our models would be great.

Once we've all got our models built and we start flying them we'll be able to evaluate flight characteristics and performace which will be useful in a second generation model. There will be a sequel right?

I'm already thinking that the wing and fuselage could be built as seperate components and assembled in traditional model
fashion.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #412 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:00:22 AM »

Frank, you make good points...I'll look at it some more. I agree completely that any and all changes ought to be documented, for our reference if for no other reason. I am making multiple tracings of parts that I change, when it's easier to do that than recording dimensions. A sequel? Why not? Assuming of course at least one of our versions flies well!

I kinda like the wing/engine pod/fuselage concept as is; I'd lean more toward modifying the wing construction itself, at least using a more standard 3/16" or 1/4" sq. LE so it could be made much more blunt than the original--I think pointy LEs are less than ideal for stunt. Also the construction in general could be simplified. Eliminate one stringer or spar and you've eliminated, lessee, 28 notches! I do like our "new" TE courtesy of Roger. Although I had to wet it down and block it to remove a slight bow that developed after it was all done. And I really like "your" landing gear. Very interesting project, long from finished.

--Ray

Jan Holuszko · « **Reply #413 on:** March 10, 2007, 10:05:12 AM »

Lets not forget that you'll be adding nose weight with the spinner attached.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #414 on:** March 10, 2007, 03:04:07 PM »

Document changes? Of course! Doing that as I go.
In fact, I had the carry through, F-1 and F-2 finished when I decided to go with bigger tank, changing all of the above.
I plan to show both in the pics so you can see the differences.

re fuselage. As my F-2 is slightly taller than the original, I'll

tonight, and look at a slight size increase. Oh yeah, it's after Noon, that cup might not contain coffee!

Ooops, dinner bell just rang. later,
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #415 on:** March 10, 2007, 03:24:15 PM »

Quote from: Jan Holuszko on March 10, 2007, 10:05:12 AM

Lets not forget that you'll be adding nose weight with the spinner attached.

Hey Jan!!......I'm posting the picture of Ray's spinner here. As far as it adding nose weight goes I don't think it will tip the balance too much. I weighed the spinner you made for me and it barely budged the indicator on my scale. nd your new design looks like it will be even lighter than the prototype you made for me. So .........I think we'll need to be careful of how much weight we add to the tail.

By the way..........you did a beautiful job on the spinners. Thank you.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #416 on:** March 10, 2007, 04:25:47 PM »

Looking at it, I don't think there'll be much weight at all added to the tail; the increases I'm thinking of are relatively small, and there's nothing back there but 1/16" light balsa. 1/4" taller and 1/2" longer only adds up to about 5 or 6 sq. inches more of that 1/16" balsa, total, yes, counting both sides... Lay a 3"x3" square of 1/16" balsa on the tail of any plane and see how much (how little) it affects the balance. Jan, you're right, your spinner should negate any additional weight I can build into the tail.

So OK, I believe I'll redraw the profile!

--Ray

P.S. I went down to my LHS today to pick up some soft 1/16"; did find some 1/20" to try; and also a sheet of 1/32" soft basswood. I'm gonna weigh equivalent masses of each and see how much weight difference there is. The basswood looks like it might "form" better and have a little more crush resistance. I'll let you know what I find.

Temp in the 40s, no wind, sun shining...sure is tempting to go fly, except the field will be knee deep in mud from all the snow melt.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #417 on:** March 10, 2007, 04:35:22 PM »

Sharpen that pencil Ray.

You're quite right about those small changes you have in mind, they won't move the cg.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #418 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:53:56 PM »

WOO-HOO! I got my spinner from Jan...it is a work of art! It has a prop extension with shoulder, a prop nut that is sized to fit the Norvel wrench (nice touch, Jan), etc. Very, very nice work.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #419 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:34:05 PM »

So Ray................I take it you like that spinner?

Jan is a really good machinist, isn't he? These spinners are very special. Hold on to yours.
It looks like you've been doing some work on the fuselage. I see a stringer and what look to be F-3.

Someone has to explain to Roger about the concept of online building. I got an e-mail from him today that he should have posted here with pix. Apparently he has all the ribs cut. The nose formers, sides and MM rails cut. I do wish he'd post that stuff here along with pix. Talk to him Ray.

I sent Bill Little the Arrow plans today.

I still haven't done any new work on my Arrow. I'm going to though before the week is out.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #420 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:45:11 PM »

I believe I expressed that, yaaaaasss. Seriously, the man should market these. Besides looking good, the prop attachment is rock-solid (better than the stock Norvel), as well as the spinner. My Norvels occasionally backfire and spin the prop off. Not with this one! Your friend is an artist and a top-notch engineer, and you can tell him I said so.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #421 on:** March 12, 2007, 08:50:24 PM »

Okay, okay!
Not sure my pics add to what has been posted, but here are some, with notes.

Note I sent to Ray and Frank is below, with additions:
"...All ribs cut and notched except rear notches on F-6. Some ribs not to my liking, will re fab., especially #4, not shown.
re. R-6 notches and notching the spar. I have an idea, ie boxing in the area for strength. Will try later tonight when I get home.
New F-1, new F-2 and new carry through cut and ready except for forming the curve on top of F-2 as I have two diff tank configurations to play with which dictate the overall height of F-2. New F-1 height will also be determined after tank selected.
3/32" Sides for nose assembly cut, notched.
Motor mounts cut, need to be routed for weight reduction.
Not happy with the way the ribs turned out (my fault), "may" fab another set....."

Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #422 on:** March 13, 2007, 04:06:43 AM »

Those ribs are a pain, for sure...Roger, they look good to me. If you're concerned about that little tab missing on R1 between the two 1/8" spars, don't be...not even practical to try to keep it in there; if you get it cut OK you'll knock it out when installing the spars. I wouldn't worry about it (don't, even). It'll be covered by the center section sheeting anyhow. Also looks like R3 needs the 1/8" square cut off the back. I can't see another thing wrong.

IMO boxing in the spars at R6 and 7 isn't necessary. You know to notch the rib only 1/16" deep, and on the spar a matching 1/16" deep notch...then taper the spars from that notch to the end (3") down to 1/16", themselves. When it's all glued together at the end, it makes a good substantial structure...besides, not much stress on the spars 'way out at the tip like that. But you can judge all that after you get it together, and box in the spars if it looks necessary to you. Like Frank said, these will be 3 different versions of the same plane!

On the carrythrough at the bottom, for your wider tank: Seems like the front tongue ought to be the same narrower dimension as the original, or else your MM beams will be too widely spaced or not in contact with the sides... maybe you could build out the sides with soft balsa blocks or something. Or use wider beams...Ah, that's it; it's why the lower F1 has notches rather than holes. Sorry, you're way ahead of me. I'm slow sometimes but usually do get there.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #423 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:54:16 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on March 13, 2007, 04:06:43 AM

Those ribs are a pain, for sure...Roger, they look good to me. If you're concerned about that little tab missing on R1 between the two 1/8" spars, don't be...not even practical to try to keep it in there; if you get it cut OK you'll knock it out when installing the spars. I wouldn't worry about it (don't, even). It'll be covered by the center section sheeting anyhow. Also looks like R3 needs the 1/8" square cut off the back. I can't see another thing wrong.
Ray, Thanks, I agree with all of the above but they just seem bad to me. But then, sheeting and cap strips do hide alot of ah sh**s!
IMO boxing in the spars at R6 and 7 isn't necessary. You know to notch the rib only 1/16" deep, and on the spar a matching 1/16" deep notch...then taper the spars from that notch to the end (3") down to 1/16", themselves. When it's all glued together at the end, it makes a good substantial structure...besides, not much stress on the spars 'way out at the tip like that. But you can judge all that after you get it together, and box in the spars if it looks necessary to you. Yes, the "idea" re. boxing will wait until wing assembled, like your idea better. Like Frank said, these will be 3 different versions of the same plane!

On the carrythrough at the bottom, for your wider tank: Seems like the front tongue ought to be the same narrower dimension as the original, or else your MM beams will be too widely spaced or not in contact with the sides... maybe you could build out the sides with soft balsa blocks or something. Or use wider beams..., that's it; it's why the lower F1 has notches rather than holes. Sorry, you're way ahead of me. I'm slow sometimes but usually do get there. So am I , that's why it took so long for pics!
re. Fabbing your fuselage sides. I was thinking about this. Have you thought of transferring sheeted R-1 outline to an over size sheet, sand/trim for fit , then cut the forward(vertical), top/bottom (longitudinal)fuselage lines?
Roger

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #424 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:08:02 AM »

Thanks Roger!!............Now you're getting it. Posts and pictures of even the smallest progress are what we need. After all we are building on line.

I studied your pictures and it all looks good to me. Your approach is a little different than Ray's and mine in that you are cutting out the whole kit. Whereas as we have been cutting parts as needed. I'm enjoying the thoughts you are sharing with us on the construction. Obviously you are not new to modeling. Please keep the posts and pictures coming.

Bill Little · « **Reply #425 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:39:34 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on March 13, 2007, 06:08:02 AM

Obviously you are not new to modeling. Please keep the posts and pictures coming.

New to "modeling"?? I think Roger probably gave Oba St. Clair some tips on C/L flying......................

(love ya man!

)

Bill <><

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #426 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:41:34 AM »

Well, I grew up in the cultural desert of Oklahoma, so don't know who "Oba St. Clair" is, but I think I get the drift! Roger, you gonna take that laying down??

Roger, I'm not following your last point...can't visualize what you have in mind. Keep in mind the LE sheeting needs a shelf to sit on/attach to at the fuselage sides, which is what rib R1 provides. that may have nothing to do with what you're proposing since, as I say, I can't picture it. Indulge my slowitude and try again!

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #427 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:44:12 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 13, 2007, 06:39:34 AM

New to "modeling"?? I think Roger probably gave Oba St. Clair some tips on C/L flying......................

(love ya man! )

Bill <><

Bill,
I will start picking on you "after" you retire, that's when you started on me! :-).
But for now, I'll start by stating:
"We" wont allow you to start the 1/2A FA until you finish the 1/2A LL USA-1.
Take care my friend!
Roger

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #428 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:56:09 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on March 13, 2007, 07:41:34 AM

Well, I grew up in the cultural desert of Oklahoma, so don't know who "Oba St. Clair" is, but I think I get the drift! Roger, you gonna take that laying down?? Nope, see my reply! :-) Roger, I'm not following your last point...can't visualize what you have in mind. Keep in mind the LE sheeting needs a shelf to sit on/attach to at the fuselage sides, which is what rib R1 provides. that may have nothing to do with what you're proposing since, as I say, I can't picture it. Indulge my slowitude and try again!
--Ray

Ray, I interpreted your note as indicating you were concerned about fabbing the sides to match existing/sheeted R-1 contour. Knowing it will be a trial and error fit, what I plan to do is overlay the plans and trace the "sheeted R-1" outline.
Will transfer that to balsa side pieces that are longer and wider (revision 4:50pm - will have to be a 4" sheet or we can splice a 3" and 1" along the engine cl which s in line w/the TE) than actually required. Airfoil shape will be carefully sanded to achieve a snug fit. At this time the side will be longer and higher (top to bottom) than required and can be trimmed to a proper fit. Make sense ?? If fits as envisioned, then a template will be made for future (

) builds.
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #429 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:45:34 PM »

Roger, you're referencing the "rear" fuselage, right? I was trying to apply what you said to the front--the engine pod, as someone (Frank?) called it...I understand now. I was referring to the method suggested in the construction article of the original, in the magazine, and as shown on the profile view on the plans: The fuselage cutout for the wing, from the high point back, is cut on a straight line--then before the wing is sheeted, the fuselage is slid up between the R1 ribs and positioned exactly as you want it; then trace the rib curve onto the fuse side that is overlapping it and trim to that line. Supposed to insure a snug fit I guess. I never had done it that way before, but thought I would give it a try just to see how useful that technique is. What you're describing is the way I usually do it for any fuselage cutout: Lay the root rib on the fuse, trace around it, cut it out, sand to fit, slide the sheeted wing through the hole.

Yes, fuse sides will probably have to be spliced, wing centerline is the place to do it. Unless you have access to 6" wide balsa, which is usually spliced anyhow, may as well do it yourself. 4" may be barely enough for the stock side, but I'm increasing mine in height a little--1/4" or so to stay proportional to the increased wingspan..

Side note: The 1/32" basswood I mentioned earlier is too heavy for fuse sides. I think it would form very well, but only on a plane that can afford a little weight gain.

Still playing with the spinner.

--Ray.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #430 on:** March 13, 2007, 09:04:06 PM »

Ray, When all else fails, I should read the "article provided by Frank" instructions.
Thanks, I'll also try it. My fus. will also be 1/4" highter, full length if I use the the Sulivan tank.
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #431 on:** March 14, 2007, 02:09:38 AM »

That height increase should play right into what you need, then...good. Sometimes it works out that way.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #432 on:** March 14, 2007, 06:26:31 AM »

I was afraid you guys were going to get way ahead of me in these past couple weeks, but it looks like you guys are also moving slow. This basement ceiling I'm doing has expanded to adding electric outlets and running new phone lines. These additions plus building around windows and ductwork outlets is giving me my daily fill of building. It's difficult to drum up the gumption to settle into the basement for more building.

Sunday Jan and I installed a new light over my workbench. It sports 4 T8 32 watt bulbs and has doubled the available light. Now I'm going over all the spots on the LA HEAT I couldn't see before.

Keep the pictures coming Roger----as soon aas you post pix of your Arrow fuselage I'm going to drag mine out and keep up with you and Ray.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #433 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:09:49 AM »

As mentioned, I will be busy until Sunday night, BUT!, I had to do something last night so I did a preliminary fit check of nose pieces. Parts shown are just clamped or set in place, engine is an old model Norvel used for fit checks.F-2 is installed further aft in a vertical position. I believe the original "angle" was intended to provide angled mount for LG.
"Might" start gluing Monday.
Have a good weekend, it's St. patrick's Day weekend!

Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #434 on:** March 16, 2007, 03:11:51 PM »

Looks good, Roger...that's 2 oz. tank, right? That oughtta be plenty!

I been tinkering around with the main fuselage...determined the construction method in the article has no advantage; I'm doin' it the "old-fashioned way"-- gonna finish sheeting the wing, then build the fuse on the wing rather than a separate component. I see much difficulty in maintaining alignment of all the parts/pieces otherwise.

I'll have a pattern for the fuse sides developed soon (have it already; just need to use it & see that it actually fits). Roger, with your MM assembly 1/4" taller and somewhat wider, you'll need to adjust my pattern accordingly if you use it.

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #435 on:** March 17, 2007, 03:28:42 PM »

New pics...
#1: Fuselage parts
#2: F4 and F6 on fuselage ((F3 was already there)
#3: Flapilator ready to hinge
#4: The "parts" patterns I'[ll be sending to you guys if you want 'em.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #436 on:** March 18, 2007, 06:26:33 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on March 16, 2007, 03:11:51 PM

Looks good, Roger...that's 2 oz. tank, right? Yes! It should be a fun plane, no reason for short flights unless it turns out nose heavy with a full tank. That oughtta be plenty!

I been tinkering around with the main fuselage...determined the construction method in the article has no advantage; I'm doin' it the "old-fashioned way"-- gonna finish sheeting the wing, then build the fuse on the wing rather than a separate component. I see much difficulty in maintaining alignment of all the parts/pieces otherwise. Agree!

I'll have a pattern for the fuse sides developed soon (have it already; just need to use it & see that it actually fits). Roger, with your MM assembly 1/4" taller and somewhat wider, you'll need to adjust my pattern accordingly if you use it.
They look good, you are doing all the trail blazing work, thanks! I can use the patterns as a starting point, for sure.
Once the sides are on, can you weigh it to give us an idea of what it is at this stage? Roger --Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #437 on:** March 18, 2007, 06:48:59 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on March 17, 2007, 03:28:42 PM

New pics...
#1: Fuselage parts
#2: F4 and F6 on fuselage ((F3 was already there)
#3: Flapilator ready to hinge
#4: The "parts" patterns I'[ll be sending to you guys if you want 'em.

Nice work Ray.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #438 on:** March 18, 2007, 07:51:07 PM »

Got something even nicer...check out the pics. This is gonna be one classy lookin airplane.

I soaked the sides with water, then pinned them in place (approximately) on the formers to get them close to the final shape. I'll need to do a little trimming to fit them exactly, after they dry in shape. But, I just keep going down to look at it, it's so cool...

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #439 on:** March 18, 2007, 08:21:02 PM »

"Even Nicer" is an understatement.
You sure know how to motivate people!
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #440 on:** March 19, 2007, 02:29:24 PM »

nice Ray.....very nice. Tomorrow is my last dy in this basement project. I'll try to catch up to you soon.
You're quite right the plane looks super!!

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #441 on:** March 19, 2007, 04:04:26 PM »

Ray, Frank and Roger;
Outstanding work. Ray that last set of pictures was awesome. Looks like it won't be much longer. You guys are to be commended, this has been a labor of love. It has been a pleasure to watch the three of you bring it all together. Will this be availlable to the rest of us when you finish? Please don't stop now keep up the magnificent work, you three are truely professionals.

"Billy G"

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #442 on:** March 19, 2007, 04:11:30 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gruby on March 19, 2007, 04:04:26 PM

Ray, Frank and Roger;
Outstanding work. Ray that last set of pictures was awesome. Looks like it won't be much longer. You guys are to be commended, this has been a labor of love. It has been a pleasure to watch the three of you bring it all together. Will this be availlable to the rest of us when you finish? Please don't stop now keep up the magnificent work, you three are truely professionals.

"Billy G"

--Bill, I'm getting old and dense, what means "be available to the rest of us"? You mean pictures? We'll post plenty pics of the finished products, I'm sure. Or do you mean, as plans? Possibly. Or do you mean (shudder) as a kit?? Not likely, at least not from me...

--Ray

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #443 on:** March 19, 2007, 05:03:59 PM »

Ray;

Plans would be fine. after all you gentlemen already wrote a nine page instruction sheet didn't you.

"Billy G"

frank carlisle · « **Reply #444 on:** March 19, 2007, 05:35:18 PM »

Ray, I was just looking at the pictures of your Arrow again. Too cool.
Do you plan on raiding the grand kids toy box for a pilot?

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #445 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:11:27 PM »

Wow!

Received my spinner from Jan today!
This is an absolutely beautiful piece of work, obviously done by someone (Jan) who really enjoys creating a quality item.

The pictures do not do it justice, but they are the best I could do tonight.
This will definitely motivate me to get the plane built.
It will surely make my plane look good!
Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #446 on:** March 20, 2007, 02:17:35 AM »

Those spinners are gorgeous, aren't they? Very precise work.

Frank, I'm surprised at your inference...my precious grandkids VOLUNTEER these figures for pilots; force them on me, they do, yeah, that's it, force 'em on me...it's like a competition for them, to see who places the most pilots...well, it will be, they're only 6 and 3 right now.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #447 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:16:13 AM »

Those kids are soooo cute...........I hope you spoil them......And quit stealing their toys!!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #448 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:48:18 AM »

Technically they're MY toys, since I buy 'em and keep them here for when the kids come over...besides, they'll never miss a Snoopy or two...will they? I know, I'll make tiny little handles that just fit their hands and take them out flying.

--Ray

P.S. I'll have more pics to post this evening...the FA is shaping up!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #449 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:57:48 AM »

Update: Got my tip weight box installed; just glued on the bottom of the fuse and inboard tip with the adjustable LO guides. My wife observed that I'm more fascinated with this model than any other for a long time back. She's right, it is one of the most interesting builds I've done in awhile.

All-up weight so far, engine, tank and all, around 8 1/2 oz. Not too bad, leaves me an ounce and a half for covering/finishing within my target weight. Seems like it's gonna be REALLY noseheavy though; probably have to figure on another ounce or so of lead in the tail. I think I'll add a tail wheel mounted in the sub-rudder to set it a little more level, since I'll need the weight back there anyhow. With this wing area (300 + squares? I'll have to measure it closely soon), anything under 12 oz. is probably good.

Pics later this AM, I promise...

--Ray