Author Topic: 1/2A fierce Arrow (Read 49405 times)

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #50 on:** January 30, 2007, 08:21:19 AM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on January 29, 2007, 08:57:01 PM

Hey Bill!
After turning 2-3 sec laps you might re-consider that .40-.60 sized stunter!! If you can slow these little guys down, they can be a blast though!!

Long lines, Richard, long lines. Frank's suggestion of 50' may be about right. Then just think of all the room you have for maneuvers! I've mentioned before that I fly my 1/2A stunter on 48' lines; I've used as long as 52'--OK as long as it's calm. Then you can just let the little guys rip along and still turn a leisurely 4-sec. lap (about 55 mph). A Norvel .061 will do that with a 6x2 prop.

Bill, as slow as Frank and I go, tinkering with design and such, you'll probably still be able to get in on this build. After all, how many weeks have we messed with those little autogyros? First post on that thread was Dec. 17. Just now winding down, 6 weeks later. And according to Larry it's basically a 3-hour build...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #51 on:** January 30, 2007, 09:20:13 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 30, 2007, 08:21:19 AM

Long lines, Richard, long lines. Frank's suggestion of 50' may be about right. Then just think of all the room you have for maneuvers! I've mentioned before that I fly my 1/2A stunter on 48' lines; I've used as long as 52'--OK as long as it's calm. Then you can just let the little guys rip along and still turn a leisurely 4-sec. lap (about 55 mph). A Norvel .061 will do that with a 6x2 prop.

Bill, as slow as Frank and I go, tinkering with design and such, you'll probably still be able to get in on this build. After all, how many weeks have we messed with those little autogyros? First post on that thread was Dec. 17. Just now winding down, 6 weeks later. And according to Larry it's basically a 3-hour build...

--Ray

A few years ago my buddy Jan was just learning to fly CL. We each built a model from Dick Sarpolous plans we found in a magazine. A Mooney. We put Norvel .061s on them and they flew well at 50 feet.

6 weeks does sound rather long for a build that 12 year old kid could do in 3 hours. Think of it this way----when we have RTF Arrows it will be spring and we'll be able to go out and fly the Bee's and the Gyros and the Snappers and the Arrows. And Sparky will probably want to charge us rent for all the space we take up. I'm guessing the Arrows should yield about 1500 hits, 325 posts and 12 pages, 86 photos and 19 drawings. But who's counting?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #52 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:01:47 PM »

OK, we'll mark that as an official estimate and see how close you come to reality!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #53 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:16:16 PM »

That's a deal.............

Did you get your plans yet?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #54 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:17:27 PM »

Not yet, but mail hasn't come yet today. I hope...

frank carlisle · « **Reply #55 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:25:29 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 30, 2007, 02:17:27 PM

Not yet, but mail hasn't come yet today. I hope...

I ordered mine yesterday.......maybe by the end of the week.............
I'm going to have to buy some balsa.

BTW....I mentioned this already but..............I ordered the kit for the 900 sq. Fierce Arrow.........maaybe by the end of the week..........

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #56 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:35:14 PM »

Yeah, I saw that. Neat plane to have. Might be useful too for comparing with the 1/2A version.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #57 on:** January 30, 2007, 02:43:47 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 30, 2007, 02:35:14 PM

Yeah, I saw that. Neat plane to have. Might be useful too for comparing with the 1/2A version.

yeah -- research........now I wonder if I should go with a .40 or a .51. I'm going to have to do some steady building in the next few months.

I gotta get my LA Heat done in time for the season too!! There are a few guys who always beat me out by anywhere from one to thirty points at the contests. I'm hoping this twin will give me enough halo factor to dazzle the judges into thinking I flew better than the other guys. heh heh.
Have you ever been around when someone flew a twin? It gets peoples attention!! And the LA Heat is huge. Just look at the picture!! The plane in front is my VICTORY.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #58 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:06:39 PM »

Yup, I have in fact flown a twin, and yes, they are impressive. I actually saw a 4-engine scale bomber fly once...with & 3 engines beating against each other at almost but not quite the same rpm, one engine 4-cycling under the others, it was like music--really loud music, music you could feel, not just hear...something you never forget. Also the pilot (big guy) leaning WAY backwards holding on to the thing.

And I remember how big your LA Heat is...won't fit in your truck.

You got a busy winter (last half) ahead of you!

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #59 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:10:21 PM »

Mail just came...no plans. {sigh}

frank carlisle · « **Reply #60 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:42:47 PM »

I saw your twin engine job on another thread...(19s) right? What haven't you done in modeling before me? Will I ever catch up?

(SIGH) here too.........

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #61 on:** January 30, 2007, 08:44:10 PM »

Oh yeah, Frank, I've done it all...even acquired a Dynajet once, mounted it on a solid-wing trainer. First (attempted) flight, burned up the trainer and the grass field adjacent to the flying circle. Next step I took was to sell it.

I started messing with planes at about age 10, been at it off-and-on (took time out to raise some kids) ever since. Makes it 50 yrs. plus. Yeah, that makes me an old guy. I flew competition Open Combat and Rat Race for several years in the 60s. Won a room full of trophies (before the days of cash prizes, rats), and burned myself out on competition in the process. I haven't been to a contest in, lessee, wow, nearly 40 years! I fly strictly for my own enjoyment now. Not that competition can't be enjoyable, but I apparently don't have a governor in that area. I used to hit a contest every weekend through the summer; I'd drive 500 miles to find another one. All over OK, TX, KS, NM, MO, NE...I wouldn't recommend it. Good way to ruin a fine hobby. But it sure exposes you to a lot of different stuff, and different ways of doing things.

Only thing I never have done is fly RC.

Well, that wasn't what you asked, was it? Sorry.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #62 on:** January 30, 2007, 09:15:01 PM »

I've never had a dyna jet. And I never set a field on fire. I did set my pants on fire once and have the scar to prove it. I learned a lesson from that one. Never ever kick a burning fuel can. I did save the plane though. Priorities.

I still do contests. In the eighties I went to the Nats a bunch of times and went to contests every weekend. Now a days the contests are more like gab sessions for me and there have been times this past summer that it was a real imposition when they told me I was up next. I'd just excuse myself and say I'd be back in about six and a half minutes. I went all the way to Iowa (15 hours) for the Sig contest last year. And I'm considering on figuring a way to fly with you next summer. So I guess I too have no governor when it comes to modeling. And I did build a plane this year that is too big to fit in my truck.

I've flown RC on a buddy box a few times but the buddy always saves the plane before I can get it into the trees. Too bad..........

Maybe if I live to be a hunderd I can catch up with you.

EDIT TO SAY THIS----2 pages and not a rib cut or two pieces of wood stuck together!! hmmmmmmmmm..

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #63 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:51:55 AM »

We are amazing, aren't we? Wonder how much band Robert has...

I have set a lot of things on fire, including combat wings that crashed and burned, but never my pants. I think I'll let you keep the lead on that one.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #64 on:** January 31, 2007, 11:30:38 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 31, 2007, 09:51:55 AM

We are amazing, aren't we? Wonder how much band Robert has...

I have set a lot of things on fire, including combat wings that crashed and burned, but never my pants. I think I'll let you keep the lead on that one.

--Ray

Yup....amazing.....And I think we're about to go to page 3. Holy Alphetic Resin Batman!!

I missed the mail man today but he left two pick up notices for me. One is an .051 from Dennis Lipsett and the other is for that Fierce Arrow kit from RSM. Happy Birthday to Meeeeeee............gee and I don't even have to get a year older this time!!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #65 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:53:15 AM »

Friday and still no plans. I quote Ray---"SIGH".

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #66 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:50:41 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 02, 2007, 08:53:15 AM

Friday and still no plans. I quote Ray---"SIGH".

WHAAAaaaaaaa..!!

You got your motor and kit didn'tya?hehehe.....That a .35 size arrow?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #67 on:** February 02, 2007, 01:05:20 PM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on February 02, 2007, 10:50:41 AM

WHAAAaaaaaaa..!!

You got your motor and kit didn'tya?hehehe.....That a .35 size arrow?

Hi Rich

The box says the Arrow wants a .40-.46. I asked my pal Rick Sawicki about that and he helped me to decide to put a .51 into it.

Bill Little · « **Reply #68 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:00:45 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 02, 2007, 01:05:20 PM

Hi Rich

The box says the Arrow wants a .40-.46. I asked my pal Rick Sawicki about that and he helped me to decide to put a .51 into it.

Hi Frank,

Sir Charles of Reeves flys his Fierce Arrow with an FP 40! Don McClave had a Fox 35 in his, IIRC, as did the original.

BUT! I think an ST G51 is the way to go! As long as the balance can be maintained. Been told often that the CG is critical on the F-As.

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #69 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:12:57 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 02, 2007, 04:00:45 PM

Hi Frank,

Sir Charles of Reeves flys his Fierce Arrow with an FP 40! Don McClave had a Fox 35 in his, IIRC, as did the original.

BUT! I think an ST G51 is the way to go! As long as the balance can be maintained. Been told often that the CG is critical on the F-As.

Bill <><

Well Bill and everybody...........I opened up the kit box. I am in over my head. Apparently Eric at RSM thinks very highly of my building skills and experience!! There is no instruction sheet. I will have to study the drawing and the parts to try and cipher the construction method.
There is nothing in the box that looks like fuselage sides. There is an aft section of fuselage on a couple sheets of balsa but no forward section. There are 5 spars to the wing.
So far I've seen no sign of how the wing and fuselage get married. The entire top of the fuselage is bulkhaeds and stringers , even the cowl.
Two parts I am sure of is the aluminum LG and the canopy.
There are neat building jig tabs on some of the ribs. So Eric must also think I have a dead flat building surface.
There is no sign of plywood nose doublers.
This model has very little in common with anything I've ever built before. I am hoping that when Ray and I get the plans for our 1/2A Arrows and start building them that some light will shine on this project. I am very happy that I also ordered the construction article.
I realize that this is a little off topic(not by much though) but it gives us something to speculate about at least till our plans for the 1/2A model get here.

Of course I took pictures!!

Bill Little · « **Reply #70 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:32:06 PM »

Hi Frank,

I am supposing that it's built like the Fierce Arrow 400 I did. The root rib is part of the fuselage side, sorta, on the FA 400. It all builds together around itself!

Can you believe that that monster flew in competition at over 900 squares with a Fox 35???

Bill <><

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #71 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:38:18 PM »

Huh...maybe I should take some detail back out of my kits...apparently they're too complete.

--Ray

P.S. Fri. nite--no plans yet. Minus 40 d. windchill, -15 actual temp, predicted for Sat. AM. Why did I ever leave Okla.?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #72 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:48:17 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 02, 2007, 09:32:06 PM

Hi Frank,

I am supposing that it's built like the Fierce Arrow 400 I did. The root rib is part of the fuselage side, sorta, on the FA 400. It all builds together around itself!

Can you believe that that monster flew in competition at over 900 squares with a Fox 35???

Bill <><

Bill Little · « **Reply #73 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:49:02 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 02, 2007, 09:38:18 PM

(snip)--Ray

P.S. Fri. nite--no plans yet. Minus 40 d. windchill, -15 actual temp, predicted for Sat. AM. Why did I ever leave Okla.?

Don't fret, Ray! The heat wave is going to hit againaround the end of next week and get up to about 20*! Break out the Sea and Ski!

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #74 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:52:08 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 02, 2007, 09:32:06 PM

Hi Frank,

I am supposing that it's built like the Fierce Arrow 400 I did. The root rib is part of the fuselage side, sorta, on the FA 400. It all builds together around itself!

Can you believe that that monster flew in competition at over 900 squares with a Fox 35???

Bill <><

So Bill-------Should I start with building the engine crotch and then go from there? Where did you start yours? And puleeze don't say "in the basement".

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #75 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:52:24 PM »

Meanwhile we're gonna have days and days of subzero temps. And it's not even calm, usually MN's saving grace.

But it's okay; keeps me inside just a-building away.

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #76 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:54:13 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 02, 2007, 09:52:08 PM

So Bill-------Should I start with building the engine crotch and then go from there? Where did you start yours? And puleeze don't say "in the basement".

"Engine crotch"...I love it! Frank, that's one of the funniest things you've said. I always thought you were kinda crotchety.

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #77 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:56:57 PM »

Just where on the engine is its "crotch"? Is that where the venturi sticks out? Or maybe the pressure fitting in the back...?
I'm still laughing. Thanks for the entertainment.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #78 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:59:44 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 02, 2007, 09:54:13 PM

"Engine crotch"...I love it! Frank, that's one of the funniest things you've said. I always thought you were kinda crotchety.

--Ray

Well crutch actually,Ray. But if you got a hoot then crotch it is.

It's very cold here too. I have a lady that expects me to climb up the side of her house and patch a hole in the facia that the squirrels are using. I'm thinking I may have to charge her a sub-zero premium.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #79 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:24:07 PM »

I gotta tell you I sure would, if I took the job at all...the squirrels are probably hibernating in there anyhow. How you gonna get them out? or just board them up in there? Sounds like a Springtime job to me.

--Ray

("engine crotch"...still giggling.)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #80 on:** February 03, 2007, 12:52:02 AM »

I'm just going to board them up in there. This is a rental property and the owner has done so much wrong to the house!!
A couple weeks ago, the lady (Mrs.Grey actually0 payed me to mount iron bars on the insides of the windows with 2 1/2 inch lag screws. Totally wrecked the woodwork. 6 screws per. It's a two family flat. All the gutters are hanging loose on their nails and are full of debri. The debri gets wet, then heavy and that's what loosens the fasteners. Rain and melt are seeping into the house. She has been trying to fix the plaster instead of the source of the problem.
I'd call her a slum lord except her house has many of the same problems. And I don't think she knows better. She does follow my advice though and it will be a steady source of income getting it fixed.

I think the engine "crotch" gers built first. Then the fprward sides are added to the "crotch". Then a root rib fastens to either side of the "crotch". Then wing assembly begins................................naturally it begins at the "crotch".

Bill Little · « **Reply #81 on:** February 03, 2007, 12:33:46 PM »

Hmmmmmm........

Seems that a lot of troubles begin at the "crotch"!

Of course, Frank, I began my FA 400 in the basement................

frank carlisle · « **Reply #82 on:** February 03, 2007, 04:53:42 PM »

This is turning into Comedy Central...........one little typo.

The mail man has come and gone. Still no plans..........sigh.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #83 on:** February 03, 2007, 08:18:11 PM »

Meeeeeee toooooo, they musta sent 'em third class or something...

--Ray

Bill Little · « **Reply #84 on:** February 03, 2007, 08:28:13 PM »

Hi Frank,

Since it's been about 10 years since I built the FA-400, and I haven't looked at the article in about that long, about all I remember is that the plane really was built all together. No separate "assemblies" as such. But, the FA-400 is less than half the size of the regular Fierce Arrow. But, then again,. it is designed pretty much the same................

frank carlisle · « **Reply #85 on:** February 03, 2007, 09:23:46 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 03, 2007, 08:28:13 PM

Hi Frank,

Since it's been about 10 years since I built the FA-400, and I haven't looked at the article in about that long, about all I remember is that the plane really was built all together. No separate "assemblies" as such. But, the FA-400 is less than half the size of the regular Fierce Arrow. But, then again,. it is designed pretty much the same................

well I think it all starts in the "crotch". First the engine rails get stuck to F! & F2 then the forward fuselage sides get stuck to the "crotch". Next root ribs on either side. Then space out wing ribs-spar 'em up. tail section slides on wing. bulkheads added then planked. Glue it all, sand endlessly. Cover, paint sand a lot more. Stick engine in and fly.

That sounds simple enough.

I think I may go with a forty for grunt. I'm going to use aluminum plates for engine mounting so if the .40 doesn't do the trick, the plates could be drilled and tapped for the .51.

I had to edit here to add this picture of the root rib. It is 19" long. 1/4" stock.

Bill Little · « **Reply #86 on:** February 03, 2007, 09:38:21 PM »

Which 40, pray tell??

frank carlisle · « **Reply #87 on:** February 03, 2007, 09:44:53 PM »

Brodak?

Bill Little · « **Reply #88 on:** February 03, 2007, 10:01:26 PM »

Is that a question? HAHAhA!! I am sure the Brodak wil fly it. How well depends on whether you use the "Lampione Finishing System" or any of a million other LIGHTER systems!

I swear, Bobby could take a .60 size stunter that "should" weight around 65 ounces with a 19 point finish on it, and have it come out at 80!! But, after all these years, he has finally been told what a sanding block is, and what it's used for!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #89 on:** February 03, 2007, 10:05:42 PM »

I think I could build it light enough Bill. I love drilling holes in plywood and using dabs of glue.
Do you still have your FA 400? And if so could you put up some pix? Top and bottom?

Bill Little · « **Reply #90 on:** February 03, 2007, 10:09:21 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 03, 2007, 10:05:42 PM

I think I could build it light enough Bill. I love drilling holes in plywood and using dabs of glue.
Do you still have your FA 400? And if so could you put up some pix? Top and bottom?

Sure can Frank. Remind me tomorrow to get the camera and take some pics of it! Kinda dirty and been throgh some hanger rash, but it really does fly great!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #91 on:** February 03, 2007, 10:26:16 PM »

That's good.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #92 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:19:31 AM »

If we could get our blamed plans, we could see if the 1/2A version uses that same construction.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #93 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:35:50 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 04, 2007, 05:19:31 AM

If we could get our blamed plans, we could see if the 1/2A version uses that same construction.

--Ray

I think we'll have our plans this week. First when we get them let's develop a materials list and get all the stuff we need.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #94 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:23:00 AM »

Still no plans.

......they must be drawing them. ................SIGH

It seems the bigger the outfit the longer it takes to get something from them.

I WANT MY FREEKIN PLANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELLOOOOOOO

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #95 on:** February 07, 2007, 11:17:38 AM »

Call 'em, Frank, go ahead, call 'em, call 'em...give 'em a piece of your mind. And remind them I'm waiting too!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #96 on:** February 08, 2007, 02:11:12 PM »

Still no steenkin' plans!!! Ray we could be halfway through our build by now if we'd done our own design work........

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #97 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:00:54 PM »

I'm beginning to wonder if we've been ripped off...plans ordered on Jan. 28, that's--oh...only a week and a half ago...man, it seems like a month!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #98 on:** February 09, 2007, 10:52:02 AM »

I don't think we were ripped off Ray. But I don't think they intend to dazzle us with quick service either......Still no plans today.............SIGH. Well I guess I'll use the weekend to finish painting my LA Heat. I have my work area cleaned up and ready.
I took this picture on impulse.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #99 on:** February 09, 2007, 05:52:43 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 09, 2007, 10:52:02 AM

Well I guess I'll use the weekend to finish painting my LA Heat. I have my work area cleaned up and ready.
I took this picture on impulse.

Sorry the plans didnt come Frank!

I see dust on the Heat!

You weren't beating on the bench out of anger, making that dust fly, were you?

Are you going to do some panel lines on it and maybe some of those cool stencils Robert used on the Tbolt? It'd just take it to another level of "cool"!!

I'm looking forward to the results, irregardless!