Author Topic: 1/2A fierce Arrow (Read 49704 times)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #200 on:** February 15, 2007, 07:38:30 PM »

Thanks Bob----you be da man!!

Here is a link for Carl Goldberg Products http://www.carlgoldbergproducts.com/spinners.htm

1 1/2 is smallest-----Ray what do you think?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #201 on:** February 15, 2007, 08:28:04 PM »

Actually I don't like itat all. We'd have to widen the fuse to 1 1/2" minimum, more if we wanted it to taper into the spinner. That's gonna look awfully bulky--IMO it would throw off the fuse proportions too much. I'd rather do without altogether, myself.

You know what? on that former #2, and the MM rails issue? If we mount the landing gear directly to the MM rails, they will have to be full width back there, at least for the width of the landing gear. Means, that relieved portion can only be about 2 1/4" long at most. I'm not sure it's worth it for a negligent weight loss. I think I'll leave mine full width, full length. 'Course I already cut them, and glued the assembly up, so now I'm back to square one...gotta toss it out and start over. Former #2 is OK as shown; relieved rails are not. Nuts. My apologies.

I'm going back and deleting the msg about relieving the rails. Also the post about the "mistake"--I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken! If I get rid of the evidence,we can just pretend the whole thing never happened.

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #202 on:** February 15, 2007, 08:36:01 PM »

OK now Frank, you gotta remove your post #198 and we'll be clean. Pretty slick, huh? Kinda like "rewind".

Your Snapper will be there; I am chronically slow updating the MM web page. Trust me (he said)!

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #203 on:** February 15, 2007, 09:26:10 PM »

FYI - When I could not find a small spinner for the Pathfinder, I used a 7/8" Du-BRO Norvel Aluminum Spinner (aka Prop Nut) Cat. No. 776. Weighs 10 grams vs. 7 grams for the 1" Veco.
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #204 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:36:42 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 15, 2007, 08:28:04 PM

Actually I don't like itat all. We'd have to widen the fuse to 1 1/2" minimum, more if we wanted it to taper into the spinner. That's gonna look awfully bulky--IMO it would throw off the fuse proportions too much. I'd rather do without altogether, myself.

You know what? on that former #2, and the MM rails issue? If we mount the landing gear directly to the MM rails, they will have to be full width back there, at least for the width of the landing gear. Means, that relieved portion can only be about 2 1/4" long at most. I'm not sure it's worth it for a negligent weight loss. I think I'll leave mine full width, full length. 'Course I already cut them, and glued the assembly up, so now I'm back to square one...gotta toss it out and start over. Former #2 is OK as shown; relieved rails are not. Nuts. My apologies.

I'm going back and deleting the msg about relieving the rails. Also the post about the "mistake"--I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken! If I get rid of the evidence,we can just pretend the whole thing never happened.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #205 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:39:56 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 15, 2007, 08:28:04 PM

Actually I don't like itat all. We'd have to widen the fuse to 1 1/2" minimum, more if we wanted it to taper into the spinner. That's gonna look awfully bulky--IMO it would throw off the fuse proportions too much. I'd rather do without altogether, myself.

You know what? on that former #2, and the MM rails issue? If we mount the landing gear directly to the MM rails, they will have to be full width back there, at least for the width of the landing gear. Means, that relieved portion can only be about 2 1/4" long at most. I'm not sure it's worth it for a negligent weight loss. I think I'll leave mine full width, full length. 'Course I already cut them, and glued the assembly up, so now I'm back to square one...gotta toss it out and start over. Former #2 is OK as shown; relieved rails are not. Nuts. My apologies.

I'm going back and deleting the msg about relieving the rails. Also the post about the "mistake"--I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken! If I get rid of the evidence,we can just pretend the whole thing never happened.

--Ray

Bummmer Ray......could you get them apart and rotate the beam so that the flat side was facing down?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #206 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:43:39 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on February 15, 2007, 09:26:10 PM

FYI - When I could not find a small spinner for the Pathfinder, I used a 7/8" Du-BRO Norvel Aluminum Spinner (aka Prop Nut) Cat. No. 776. Weighs 10 grams vs. 7 grams for the 1" Veco.
Roger

I believe you've struck gold here Mr. V!! That prop nut will do just fine. What catalog is it in? Can you give us a link to that page?
Where are you at in this process?

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #207 on:** February 16, 2007, 06:13:31 AM »

Frank/Ray,

Spinner nut -

http://www.dubro.com
Select: Dubro AC hardware/Accessories
Enter 776 in the search box - search - scroll down - there 'tis!

re.Where am I?
- search for muffler extension - no good, the one I mentioned was a throttle muffler for RC use. Looking at my "Quiet Flite" setup for possible application, more later.
- Sorting/re-weighing wood supply (It absorbs a little moisture down here)
- Finishing new 1/2A P'Finder, then bench is "clean". Need about 4 hours.
- Doing what you did - Waiting for the mailman!

Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #208 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:26:15 AM »

Here's what I did; started over again...and, stubborn mule that I am, relieved what I could, just because I wanted relieved motor mounts. Weight loss = probably nothing; I don't care. Full thickness at back for gear mounting.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #209 on:** February 16, 2007, 01:53:25 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on February 16, 2007, 06:13:31 AM

Frank/Ray,

Spinner nut -

http://www.dubro.com
Select: Dubro AC hardware/Accessories
Enter 776 in the search box - search - scroll down - there 'tis!

re.Where am I?
- search for muffler extension - no good, the one I mentioned was a throttle muffler for RC use. Looking at my "Quiet Flite" setup for possible application, more later.
- Sorting/re-weighing wood supply (It absorbs a little moisture down here)
- Finishing new 1/2A P'Finder, then bench is "clean". Need about 4 hours.
- Doing what you did - Waiting for the mailman!
Roger

So did your plans get to you today? I copied the magazine article and put it in the tube with the plans. You're going to have fun sorting things out.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #210 on:** February 16, 2007, 02:06:03 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 16, 2007, 08:26:15 AM

Here's what I did; started over again...and, stubborn mule that I am, relieved what I could, just because I wanted relieved motor mounts. Weight loss = probably nothing; I don't care. Full thickness at back for gear mounting.

Looks very good Ray. Of course you've had practice making those parts, eh?

Probably the little bit of weight you save trimming the fat off the beams in insignificant by itself, BUT.............if you do it all the way down the line it will accumulate into a lighter plane. Of course you already know that.

I'm having some trouble with my lazy bone today.

Haven't done a thing on either the Heat or the Arrow. Don't plan to either.
There is always tomorrow. I guess after a week of non stop modeling a short break is in order. I'm still willing to talk modeling today though. Tomorrow I'm getting up early, loading up on coffee and going back to work on the Arrow.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #211 on:** February 16, 2007, 05:55:01 PM »

Well, I 'bout got the nose assembly all done; taking advantage of Frank's lazy bones to get ahead!

I'll post some pics after the glue dries; probably in the AM. Looks pretty good; it'll be solid.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #212 on:** February 16, 2007, 06:04:45 PM »

Does that nose assembly include fuel tank and cowl??

I kinda thought a day off for me would put you ahead.

Well, it'll be good to walk a path that's already been beaten down.

It's been a couple hours Ray. That glue is dry!!

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #213 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:14:40 PM »

Frank,
No plans today. Weather might have caused the delay, hopefully they will arrive tomorrow.
Info for Ray and all -
Brodak has a 1 1/4" spinner, they are working on a 1", no availabilty date as yet.
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #214 on:** February 16, 2007, 08:33:06 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on February 16, 2007, 08:14:40 PM

Frank,
No plans today. Weather might have caused the delay, hopefully they will arrive tomorrow.
Info for Ray and all -
Brodak has a 1 1/4" spinner, they are working on a 1", no availabilty date as yet.
Roger

It's a bummer waitling for something Especially model airplane stuff. Maybe tomorrow, Roger.

I called Brodak today to place an order. I am a dealer and the lady that takes dealer orders wasn't there. I'll call again tomorrow. I plan to order those 1 1/4 spinners. And more dope. Man I been going through that stuff lately!!

bob branch · « **Reply #215 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:04:19 PM »

Just thought I'd offer that the plane would do quite well as an electric...

::)just to muck up the works,

bob

frank carlisle · « **Reply #216 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:15:40 PM »

Quote from: bob branch on February 16, 2007, 09:04:19 PM

Just thought I'd offer that the plane would do quite well as an electric...

::)just to muck up the works,

bob

Tell ya what Smarty Pants--------I'll get a set of plans for you and you can do it in electric. I'll get video of your flights for posterity.

I wonder what Ray is up to? Probably tomorrow he'll post a picture of a completely assembled Arrow.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #217 on:** February 16, 2007, 10:39:29 PM »

Hardly...I do have a life, you know...

No tank nor bottom block on my nose assy. yet...hafta make up the gear and mount it before I can do the block on the bottom. Now where is that drawing Frank did??? Also no cowl; gotta drill for the engine and get it mounted; make a tank and get it to fit. Don't rush me, don't rush me. I can be mighty slow when I set my mind to it.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #218 on:** February 17, 2007, 05:52:27 AM »

Brrrr!!!
Cold (for me) 40 deg this am.
Out with the tracking dogs before 6am, just got back, attending a Flying Festival (real planes w/us doing some demos) later this am then home to see if mail man came.
"Waitin' for the mailmann"

Roger

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #219 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:13:11 AM »

40 d., man, what a wimp...we're ecstatic if we can get above zero.

Here's some pics of the Fierce Arrow nose structure, as far as I've gotten. In a couple of them the assembly is sitting on the 1/2" block bottom.

Note in the last pic especially, how close the engine fits between the sides. This is with 11/16" spacing between the MM beams. If you try 5/8" per plans it won't fit in. I had to grind a little off the outside of the lugs to get it in this. I'm thinking it might be a better idea to use 3/4" between beams which, with 3/32" sides, puts the whole fuse width at 1 7/16". (Mine is at 1 3/8").

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #220 on:** February 17, 2007, 10:12:30 AM »

Way to go Ray. Very nice.
Is this made up according to the drawings of the formers you did? I've been waiting till you got it this far before I start cutting out the parts for mine. I plan on duplicating what you have. I'm leary about changing the outside dimensions. So if you did this from the drawings you did I'll start cutting my parts. So, did you?

This is a pretty clever assembly method isn't it?

And Roger if it was 40 degrees here I'd be out flying today. You FLA. guys are such wimps.

I was busy also guys........As you know I decided to build two Arrows - one stock and one according to the changes we are making. So, Ray, while you were making sure our modified model would fit I have been busy making up the stock version. I made a couple changes. First I'm going to use the aluminum gear and secondly I cut off a portion of the MM in front of the engine and added filler blocks so that I can shape the nose without having to sand the hardwood motor bearers. I felt this was necessary since I will be using the nose cone that came with the .051. I'm going to glue strips of veneer on the surfaces where the cowl meets the body so as to have a harder surface that won't ding up as easily if I knick it with a tool.

What's the next step Ray??

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #221 on:** February 17, 2007, 11:12:26 AM »

Interesting, because that's what I planned as well--a balsa nose block to blend into the spinner easier...you can see the cut-short engine beams and gap left between them and the end of the sides, especially in the first 2 or 3 pics of mine above. It's that old thing again about, what is it, great minds, or maybe sick minds, I forget now.

Yup, I used the dims. I had posted in my earlier sketches--the one where I thought I had made a mistake but I was wrong!
The angle of former #2 measures close to 15 d. on the plans, so I made a unilateral descision to make it exactly that.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #222 on:** February 17, 2007, 11:44:27 AM »

Frank, next step: Landing gear so we can do the bottom block; engine mounted and tank fabbed and installed so top cowl can be done. Both btm. block and cowl, though, also dependent on having the spinner they'll blend into--so I'm pretty much at a standstill now. Guess I could cut some ribs, after I finish the layout of them.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #223 on:** February 17, 2007, 11:47:51 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 17, 2007, 11:12:26 AM

Interesting, because that's what I planned as well--a balsa nose block to blend into the spinner easier...you can see the cut-short engine beams and gap left between them and the end of the sides, especially in the first 2 or 3 pics of mine above. It's that old thing again about, what is it, great minds, or maybe sick minds, I forget now.

Yup, I used the dims. I had posted in my earlier sketches--the one where I thought I had made a mistake but I was wrong!
The angle of former #2 measures close to 15 d. on the plans, so I made a unilateral descision to make it exactly that.

Yup........great minds.

I saw right away that shaping the nose was going to be trouble. It looks on the plans like you'll still end up adding balsa inside the motor area if you want sides at all.

I'll get started cutting out the parts for "our" Arrow next. To get the angle for former #2 I rested my assembly on the plans to get the right angle. Beveled the top and bottom of the rail slots till I got it right.

It's cool the way both of our assemblies look the same. I guess that's because we're using the same plan sets?

Now to make a fuel tank. Have you given that any thought?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #224 on:** February 17, 2007, 11:57:26 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 17, 2007, 11:44:27 AM

Frank, next step: Landing gear so we can do the bottom block; engine mounted and tank fabbed and installed so top cowl can be done. Both btm. block and cowl, though, also dependent on having the spinner they'll blend into--so I'm pretty much at a standstill now. Guess I could cut some ribs, after I finish the layout of them.

--Ray

Actually Ray. You should tack the bottom block on the assembly and carve/sand it to shape. Then pop it off hollow it out. Then put the gear on and notch the bottom block to fit. At least that's how I'm going to do it. So if you follow my plan you can finish off the nose, fuel tank, cowl and all before you really have to cut the gear. My spinner is still being made But if I'm working on the nose of "our" Arrow before the spinner gets here I will shape the nose far enough so I can finish it even with the wing on the model.
My metal cutting saw is in an unheated shack out back. So I'll delay cutting the aluminum as long as I can.

I called in a Brodak order today. The 1 1/4 spinners are NOT IN STOCK. .40s are sold out also.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #225 on:** February 17, 2007, 03:00:21 PM »

yup, you're right, it'll be much easier to shape the bottom block without the gear in the way.

I went to my LHS and picked up some .06" alum. plate, and a 1"x2"x6" balsa block to cut the cowl from. I imagine I'll use thin ply., 1/32" maybe, to cover the ends of the cowl--maybe work in some sort of interior form as well, like right in front of the tank or something. TBDL (remember?)

Bummer on the spinners. They had none at all for 1/2A at the LHS.

Re: fuel tank: I may just use the oval cannister tank from the first LittleAxe, if I can find it. I posted a picture of it on this thread awhile ago, I think. The round ones would be a real squeeze fit, may leave the sides of the cowl too thin.

I'm off to lay out the gear on my new slab of aluminum!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #226 on:** February 17, 2007, 04:21:18 PM »

To Be Determined Later.

I've been using veneer like they use for counter tops to line the area where the cowl meets the fuselage. Lining both sides.I glue the lining material solid to the edge of the fuselage. Then I tack (I use rubber crment) the lining for the cowl to the fuselage liner then I glue the cowl block to that. When you seperate them after shaping you have a perfect match. I bet you already know that.

Right now it looks like my buddy Jan is the only source for the 1 1/8 spinner. It's a bit pricey ( all the aluminum ones are) but it will be around a long time. When Jan brings me mine I'll post pics and whatever price he's asking. He does great things so I know that for me it will be worth the investment.

I only have enough tin to make one fuel tank so I'm going to have to get it right the first time. Of course I could cut up a thinner can.

I'm looking forward to seeing the landing gear you make. Maybe I'll have a fuel tank for show and tell later.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #227 on:** February 17, 2007, 05:25:18 PM »

Spinner sounds good, I'm ready to pay whatever he asks (well, within reason...my reason, of course).

I rough-cut the bottom block and cowl block; then couldn't stand it any more--went to work on the alum. gear. Here's the result:

First 3 pics, fabbed gear. Frank, I used your numbers but changed the pattern slightly, to leave the front edge straight and put all the taper in the back edge.

Next 2 pics: Couldn't wait to see how it would install/look.

Last pic: Note how, serendipitiousally (??), the angle on the back edge nearly matches the angle of former #2!

This gear is gonna work fine, I'm very happy with it. Fabricated easily; I bent it by C-clamping it onto my table edge and bending by hand, with just a little light tapping with a hammer. 3/4" long 2-56 bolts, 1 3/4" wheels, nylon lock nuts for keepers. Thanks, Frank, for tips and dimensions.

--Ray

Bill Little · « **Reply #228 on:** February 17, 2007, 05:53:19 PM »

Lookin' good, Ray!

But, you gotta drill those diminishing size holes down the gear leg. About 4 on those gears would look right! Won't hurt the gear and will pull a *little* more weight out!

I would join in with you guys, but building the Fierce Arrow 400 was enough for me!

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #229 on:** February 17, 2007, 05:56:34 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 17, 2007, 05:25:18 PM

Spinner sounds good, I'm ready to pay whatever he asks (well, within reason...my reason, of course).

I rough-cut the bottom block and cowl block; then couldn't stand it any more--went to work on the alum. gear. Here's the result:

First 3 pics, fabbed gear. Frank, I used your numbers but changed the pattern slightly, to leave the front edge straight and put all the taper in the back edge.

Next 2 pics: Couldn't wait to see how it would install/look.

Last pic: Note how, serendipitiousally (??), the angle on the back edge nearly matches the angle of former #2!

This gear is gonna work fine, I'm very happy with it. Fabricated easily; I bent it by C-clamping it onto my table edge and bending by hand, with just a little light tapping with a hammer. 3/4" long 2-56 bolts, 1 3/4" wheels, nylon lock nuts for keepers. Thanks, Frank, for tips and dimensions.

--Ray

Great job Ray. Your quite the craftsman! That set of landing gear looks store bought for sure. Great pictures too. Your new camera is working out really well.
What is the position of the axle as compared to the axle position on the plan?

I'm about to solder tubing in my fuel tank. It's a little better than the first ones I made but it won't win any beauty contests. And I'm puzzled by how to mount it so far.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #230 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:14:03 PM »

I ran out of steam here. I put about 9 hours in on the LA HEAT and the Arrow today. Time to quit.

Got the fuel tank mosly finished. I'm going to vent it uni-flow style and run the fill and overflow tubes out of the inboard side I think. I'll get that figured tomorrow.

Here is a question for all you math geniuses in stuntland. My fuel tank is one inch square by 2 1/2 inches long--What is it's fuel capacity?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #231 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:21:02 PM »

2 1/2 square inches of course.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #232 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:34:06 PM »

Bill, I've seen those holes you speak of and they do look really cool...I don't know if I'll try that or not; this is not a particularly hard temper--I pretty much bent it with my bare hands and I ain't that much of a hoss. The LG assembly, sans wheels, weighs about 1/2 oz. as it sits. Not bad.

Frank, the axle is about 1/4" ahead of the plan location, no more, maybe a little less. If anything, along with the bigger wheels it'll enhance its grass-field landing and takeoffs a little. I'm content with it. Onward to other things!

Next challenge: Cowling carving! Oh yeah, and those rib layouts...

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #233 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:05:33 PM »

Frank,
Tank capacity is approximately 1.4 oz. This is just under 5 minutes for my Norvel .061. Dont have estimate for the TD, it should be more.
No plans in today's mail.

mailman
I guess when I start cutting wood I'll be reading your flight test reports.

Air Festival was great! Invited back next year by the RC club!!!!!!!!!
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #234 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:17:00 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 17, 2007, 07:34:06 PM

Bill, I've seen those holes you speak of and they do look really cool...I don't know if I'll try that or not; this is not a particularly hard temper--I pretty much bent it with my bare hands and I ain't that much of a hoss. The LG assembly, sans wheels, weighs about 1/2 oz. as it sits. Not bad.

Frank, the axle is about 1/4" ahead of the plan location, no more, maybe a little less. If anything, along with the bigger wheels it'll enhance its grass-field landing and takeoffs a little. I'm content with it. Onward to other things!

Next challenge: Cowling carving! Oh yeah, and those rib layouts...

I wondered about how far forward that axle would be once you changed the layout. As I had it, it was about a 16th forward. I don't think that it's going to make much differeence either way. Originally I wanted to lay the lg out the way you did, but I refrained for fear of being chided.

Cowling carving sounds like fun. How about attaching it like we did on the Snapper?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #235 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:23:01 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on February 17, 2007, 09:05:33 PM

Frank,
Tank capacity is approximately 1.4 oz. This is just under 5 minutes for my Norvel .061. Dont have estimate for the TD, it should be more.
No plans in today's mail. mailman
I guess when I start cutting wood I'll be reading your flight test reports.
Air Festival was great! Invited back next year by the RC club!!!!!!!!!
Roger

I'm going to want to get more mileage out of the Norvel. How much fuel will it take to get a 6 1/2 minute run?

Don't worry about being behind Roger. We probably only have about 4 hrs. worth of actually cutting and gluing wood. When you get the plans all you need to do is look at the drawings we've posted and build. It's pretty much stock what we've done so far. If you use Ray's layouts for formers 1 and 2 you'll have a good fit for your Norvel.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #236 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:37:47 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 17, 2007, 09:17:00 PM

I wondered about how far forward that axle would be once you changed the layout. As I had it, it was about a 16th forward. I don't think that it's going to make much differeence either way. Originally I wanted to lay the lg out the way you did, but I refrained for fear of being chided.

Cowling carving sounds like fun. How about attaching it like we did on the Snapper?

Chided...is that anything like being smoted? (Hope we don't start that again)

Cowl attachment TBDL (ain't that a handy acronym?) The Snapper method is a distinct possibility. A bolt through the top seems to be tempting the fates to make it a two-piece cowling. (risking a split down the middle, if that's too vague.) Besides, looks like we're gonna need every bit of that tank compartment for tank.

I'm shopping for some new CAD software; the Intellicad I'm using has some bugs in it I'm tired of working around. Only Autocad I can find is $900, a little rich for my blood. Must be some decent imitations in a little more reasonable price range, right? Suggestions welcomed from any quarter.

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #237 on:** February 17, 2007, 09:55:36 PM »

Frank,
I launch my .061 at 22,500, it tachs in the air approximately 25000 (we have an audio tach in the club).
For 6 1/2 minutes I would need about 1 5/8 -1 3/4 oz tank.
Using your current tank cross section, the 6 1/2 minute tank would have to be about 3" long.
When I get the plans I want to determine if I can go "through" the slanted former/bulkhead to extend tank compartment to get closer to 2 oz.
IF I get to fly the new Pathfinder before you build the next tank, I can short tank it to check my numbers for 6 1/2 minutes.
Roger

Note: "Your mileage may vary!"

frank carlisle · « **Reply #238 on:** February 17, 2007, 10:04:25 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 17, 2007, 09:37:47 PM

Chided...is that anything like being smoted? (Hope we don't start that again)

Cowl attachment TBDL (ain't that a handy acronym?) The Snapper method is a distinct possibility. A bolt through the top seems to be tempting the fates to make it a two-piece cowling. (risking a split down the middle, if that's too vague.) Besides, looks like we're gonna need every bit of that tank compartment for tank.

I'm shopping for some new CAD software; the Intellicad I'm using has some bugs in it I'm tired of working around. Only Autocad I can find is $900, a little rich for my blood. Must be some decent imitations in a little more reasonable price range, right? Suggestions welcomed from any quarter.

--Ray

Yes chided is like smoting. I'd like to see it again I had about 60 points toward sainthood when it got cut out. Dang!!

I'm going to use 1/16 piano wire in a horse shoe shape coming up through the tank floor with little hooks to rubberband the fuel tank in. Just like you see on many profile models. It's ugly but it's internal and it's about the only thing there is room for.

I think for my Norvel powered Arrow I'll cut an opening in former #2 to accomodate a longer tank. I'll have to look at the plans first and see what's going on back there.

I don't think the cowl needs to be so long either. I'll do some drawings tomorrow for a tank that slides into the compartment instead of dropping in as it does now

frank carlisle · « **Reply #239 on:** February 17, 2007, 10:08:43 PM »

Quote from: Roger Vizioli on February 17, 2007, 09:55:36 PM

Frank,
I launch my .061 at 22,500, it tachs in the air approximately 25000 (we have an audio tach in the club).
For 6 1/2 minutes I would need about 1 5/8 -1 3/4 oz tank.
Using your current tank cross section, the 6 1/2 minute tank would have to be about 3" long.
When I get the plans I want to determine if I can go "through" the slanted former/bulkhead to extend tank compartment to get closer to 2 oz.
IF I get to fly the new Pathfinder before you build the next tank, I can short tank it to check my numbers for 6 1/2 minutes.
Roger

Note: "Your mileage may vary!"

I see we are both looking at the slanted former as far as the tank goes. I think in doing that we'll want to seal off the tank/engine compartment by some other means than former #2.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #240 on:** February 18, 2007, 11:13:29 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 15, 2007, 11:43:39 PM

I believe you've struck gold here Mr. V!! That prop nut will do just fine. What catalog is it in? Can you give us a link to that page?
Where are you at in this process?

Find a spinner from one of the Cox RTF planes and use them. They are perfect. I had a few of the special nuts made to hold then on for the Norvels. Don't overlook the rubber ones either. Bob Zambelli has a few that were custom made by Dan Banjock, and they are beautiful, so is the price though,sigh.
dennis

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #241 on:** February 18, 2007, 12:13:52 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on February 17, 2007, 10:04:25 PM

Yes chided is like smoting. I'd like to see it again I had about 60 points toward sainthood when it got cut out. Dang!!

I'm going to use 1/16 piano wire in a horse shoe shape coming up through the tank floor with little hooks to rubberband the fuel tank in. Just like you see on many profile models. It's ugly but it's internal and it's about the only thing there is room for.

I think for my Norvel powered Arrow I'll cut an opening in former #2 to accomodate a longer tank. I'll have to look at the plans first and see what's going on back there.

I don't think the cowl needs to be so long either. I'll do some drawings tomorrow for a tank that slides into the compartment instead of dropping in as it does now

Frank, 1/16" piano wire is WAY overkill for tank holddown hooks... .04, or even .03, is enough. I use .062 for landing gear wire on some of my planes!

Guys, going through Former #2 for additional tank room is a distinct possibility...nothing there but hollow fuselage. Not sure, though, Frank, how you would hold the shape if you didn't extend the cowl back too...it's 1/16" formed over formers (hence the name!) and if you didn't have formers what would the skin form over? (How much wood would a woodchuck chuck...) I guess you could make a carved stationary piece rather than the 1/16" skin. At most you're gonna gain 1" of length before you hit the bellcrank. Course you could always move it back too. Complications, complications...

--Ray

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #242 on:** February 18, 2007, 12:41:50 PM »

Guys, going through Former #2 for additional tank room is a distinct possibility...nothing there but hollow fuselage. Not sure, though, Frank, how you would hold the shape if you didn't extend the cowl back too...it's 1/16" formed over formers (hence the name!) and if you didn't have formers what would the skin form over? (How much wood would a woodchuck chuck...) I guess you could make a carved stationary piece rather than the 1/16" skin. At most you're gonna gain 1" of length before you hit the bellcrank. Course you could always move it back too. Complications, complications...

--Ray
[/quote]

Ray,
Thanks. The extra 1" length available, by going through Former #2, and using Frank's cross section (1 x 1 ), will give us a tank of ~ 2oz. which is what I normally use on the Norvel .061.
I should have driven up to Frank's for the plans
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #243 on:** February 18, 2007, 01:39:14 PM »

Guys,

I have been doing some measuring and thinking.........here is good news.

There is 3" between former #1 and former #2 as built according to plan. That's plenty of room for a 1 X 1 X3 fuel tank.
If you secure the tank the way they do on profile models with rubber bands you can get a good size fuel tank in there without any mods to the structure.
Here is a scribble showing detail. The bottom shows 1/16 piano wire with hooks to hold rubber band. There would be two wire horseshoes-one on either side of the tank. So..........whatca think?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #244 on:** February 18, 2007, 02:15:02 PM »

Doing that drawing stirred me up. So I installed the piano wire and rubber band. One pair of hooks will do. The rubber band is kind of big but it will do for show and tell. Man that tank ain't budging.

The tank in the picture is 2 3/4 inches long by one inch square. There is room in there for a 3 X 1 X 1 fuel tank.

Do I get a gold star?

?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #245 on:** February 18, 2007, 04:30:00 PM »

Very nice...but I'm telling you, that 1/16" wire is...well, you're right, that tank ain't budging! I guess that's the point.

Are the tank corners outside the fuselage radius?

--Ray

Robert McHam · « **Reply #246 on:** February 18, 2007, 05:06:30 PM »

Frank, looks like you have a winning solution. I think you could do with a lesser dia. wire but you won't be creating any problems with what you have.

Heh! Sometimes what you have on hand works best of all!

Robert

frank carlisle · « **Reply #247 on:** February 18, 2007, 05:37:06 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on February 18, 2007, 04:30:00 PM

Are the tank corners outside the fuselage radius?

--Ray

Ray I don't understand that question...........

Robert.........I've come to the same conclusion. The 1/16 wire is heavier than it needs to be. I've already cut it out. Smaller wire will go in there.

Right now I'm trying to figure what to do about fastening the cowl in place.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #248 on:** February 18, 2007, 08:24:17 PM »

I have had a pretty serious wrestling match with the cowling. It is a bear to get it to match the fuselage sides. I decided to make a box that can be carved and sanded to shape rather than try to fit a slab on it.

If I were to do it over again (and I am) I would cut the side out as per my drawing. I'd seperate the fuselage side from the piece and save the other part(cowl side) for when it's time to do the cowl. I'd make it a box again with two sides and a top, but this time I would have templates.

The whole assembly is ugly right now but once it is carved and shaped it should look pretty good.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #249 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:45:35 AM »

Here we go.................................I have the cowl roughed in.

It's starting to look pretty good. I'm pretty dusty from all the sanding and ready to take a break till later today.

It's almost time to start cutting ribs.