Author Topic: KYO B-29 (Read 4567 times)

Jim Carter · « **on:** June 08, 2016, 12:52:47 PM »

Greetings! Well, I did it!! With the help and encouragement of my friends and a lot of prayer, baby "DOC" took to the sky this morning

! I don't think I've been as nervous since I said "I do" almost 38 years ago. There have been a few other sessions where I worked to get some consistency with the settings of the four OS 25's but because of the gravity feed problem that may never be completely resolved. So with the help of my friends, we set out the .021" x 60' lines fired up the engines and let go. It was awesome seeing it going through the takeoff roll

. Believe me, there was no horsing those 8-1/2 pounds off the ground either. Those OS 25's were singing and working but when it lifted off, it just reached for the sky .... it wanted to climb

:D ! After the first moments of shock, awe and incredible joy, my brain began repeating "Fly the plane ... Fly the plane .... Pay attention to the plane .... Forget the guys .... Fly the plane"!! On our first attempt, all four engines were running and the flight went wonderful. Unfortunately, no one thought to turn on the video

. The second attempt was caught on video but because of the problems trying to keep all four running, I opted to take off with just three running

$:-\$ . Nevertheless, the flight was exciting and successful and I had my buddy controlling the throttles from outside the circle and all went well. Folks .... it was a gut wrenching thrill

%^@ that I will remember forever. Oh, if I could only make it to Brodak's and the NAT's $:-\$ $:-\$ !! Maybe someday!! If you'd like to see the video it is:

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2016, 01:07:23 PM »

Looks like it flies really well. It'll be a lot easier when you can figure out how to run the throttles yourself!
Chris...

Paul Smith · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2016, 01:18:54 PM »

Very nice.

Are the engines controlled by a flight engineer outside the circle?

What kind of 25's?

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2016, 05:00:08 PM »

Are you taking the B-29 to the Brodak contest? Send me some High Resolution pictures for the CL scale column....! congrats on getting it flying. Nothing like a quad.

thanks,
Fred

clscale7@gmail.com

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2016, 09:54:54 PM »

The video shows you have a winner. Make a bracket and hang the transmitter on your belt. With all that power you don't need full throttle.

Jim Carter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2016, 09:37:53 AM »

Thanks for the good words guys!

Quote from: Chris McMillin on June 08, 2016, 01:07:23 PM

Looks like it flies really well. It'll be a lot easier when you can figure out how to run the throttles yourself!
Chris...

L.O.L.!! I figured I'd have all I could handle on the first flight as I really didn't know what to expect

!!

Quote from: Paul Smith on June 08, 2016, 01:18:54 PM

Very nice.

Are the engines controlled by a flight engineer outside the circle?

What kind of 25's?

Yes, although he had never operated radio controlled anything!! They are the older OS 25 r/c engines swinging 4-blade APC 9x6 props. It was a true "seat of the pants" event!!

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on June 08, 2016, 05:00:08 PM

Are you taking the B-29 to the Brodak contest? Send me some High Resolution pictures for the CL scale column....! congrats on getting it flying. Nothing like a quad.

thanks,
Fred

clscale7@gmail.com

Lord knows, I truly wish I could but sadly my "fixed income" won't stretch that far

. With roundtrip gas for my van from Florida, hotel (even if I camped in my tent), food (and I've got lots of MRE's) .... I figure I'd need about $800 - $900 and I just don't think I can/should at this point in time $:-\$ $:-\$ . Unfortunately, I haven't had any good customers needing build projects this year and my "hobby" account is just about empty ($150 or so left)

. I'd be happy if I could ship it up to Brodak's or even the NAT's if a good proxy pilot and ground crew would step up! Of course shipping might be a nightmare in and of itself

Quote from: john e. holliday on June 08, 2016, 09:54:54 PM

The video shows you have a winner. Make a bracket and hang the transmitter on your belt. With all that power you don't need full throttle.

Believe me I've given that idea come consideration but it also seems so "kool" having a "flight engineer" supporting you

! I already have a working set of the old Radio Shack walkie talkie head sets. As for power, if you notice in the video, although I chose not to press my luck, the plane was still flying on one engine and the pull was fairly solid. I honestly believe if I had called for full throttle I could have stayed in the air a bit longer because the engine was still running after I had rolled to a stop

. But as the wise man once said "Don't Git Cocky"!!

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2016, 11:47:01 AM »

Do you Know Ed Mason in the Florida area? he also just finished the same kit b-29, but he flies with 3-line throttle controls

Fred

Jim Carter · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2016, 06:52:59 PM »

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on June 09, 2016, 11:47:01 AM

Do you Know Ed Mason in the Florida area? he also just finished the same kit b-29, but he flies with 3-line throttle controls

Fred

No, I can't say I do! Any idea where he is or how he can be contacted? I started to rig mine with three line but I ran into problems rigging the linkage for the throttles. My setup seemed to be too tight; there was too much drag and I wasn't satisfied so I ripped it out. Besides it was about that time that I first read about yours, then the AMA rules about radio assist. The whole concept seemed doable soooo .... here we are!!

Paul Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2016, 08:42:43 PM »

I think flying it two-handed with the flight engineer in the center would be a good system. So real multis let the co do the throttles.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2016, 09:14:34 PM »

I fly my 96" span B-29 in Profile scale with a 2-line handle and operate the throttle with my left hand without any problems. You don't need to fly with two hands if the line guide is set so that the model does not pull too hard or if you fly too fast. Remember that the line tension is based upon how fast you fly and the line guide location.

My models pulls about 40 lbs but I hang on without using two hands. the trick to learning how to work the throttles with the left hand is not as hard as it sounds. everything is done by feel and the belt clip holds the transmitter from bouncing around.

Fred

Jim Carter · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2016, 02:32:14 PM »

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on June 09, 2016, 09:14:34 PM

I fly my 96" span B-29 in Profile scale with a 2-line handle and operate the throttle with my left hand without any problems. You don't need to fly with two hands if the line guide is set so that the model does not pull too hard or if you fly too fast. Remember that the line tension is based upon how fast you fly and the line guide location.

My models pulls about 40 lbs but I hang on without using two hands. the trick to learning how to work the throttles with the left hand is not as hard as it sounds. everything is done by feel and the belt clip holds the transmitter from bouncing around.

Fred

Gotcha! Oh, if you only knew how many times I've watched your video and then contemplated and "dreamed" about doing as well

! While there is a solid pull with baby "Doc", I'm not sure how much it is. While I fly with my arm fully extended, I don't have a problem holding it with one hand. Again, I'm using .021"x63' lines. Using the NCLRA Speed Chart for four laps my speed should have been in the neighborhood of 41.46 mph. Going forward, I just have to make sure my hands are "chalk" dry. The last thing I need is wet, sweaty palms, to be sure!

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2016, 05:24:22 PM »

.021 are good for the 9-12 lb range which you probably fall into. The .022 solids that I fly with are crazy strong and I have yet to break a test sample even at 120 lbs or more. I pull tested the lines to 110 lbs and they all passed.

Fred

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2016, 05:05:27 PM »

Describe the problem you are having keeping all four running? You are probably over pitching the props for four blades. You should probably be in the 4 inch pitch range for a four blade, especially with the older OS .25s. You don't want to set all four engines the same on the ground either. The engines are at different "line lengths" and actually flying at different speeds and generating different centrifugal force that affects the fuel flow. Do a search on this forum and on Stuka Stunt by John Miller on setting the needles for a twin stunter. The same theory will apply to four engines set appropriately. I always get confused on how it goes, but I believe the inboard engines should be set a bit leaner than the engine on the outside. I may have that backwards so it's best to search or contact John Miller. When I have it straight in my mind it makes sense and I have tried it out on a couple of twin profile scale models a friend here has flown. The extra pitch is too much load for those older engines, and then is aggravated by setting engines too lean to start with. Those engines should be at least 20% total oil and probably higher. Those are still iron pistons in iron liners/ Regular R/C fuel won't have enough oil if that's what you are using. Nice looking model by the way, good luck with future flights!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Jim Carter · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:37:30 AM »

Hi Dan! Sorry for the delay but "life" has been in the forefront for the past few days. Thanks for the kind words. I've now enjoyed three successful flights with baby "Doc"

and I'm hoping for many, many more. I don't believe overpitching is the problem because surprisingly, those old OS 25's have been running quite strong even though I haven't tried to tach them. As I mentioned before, I'm using the APC 9x6 4-blade prop and they don't seem to be lugging the engine significantly. It is a problem related to the fact that I opted to mount the engines inverted rather than upright as the plan calls for. I used new Brodak 2 ounce tanks and because of placement the carb intake is nearly a full inch below the tank centerline. My hope at a quasi-fix was to use an extra length fuel line that forms a coil above the tank centerline. I probably should make the coil a hair longer to optimize this. It really does seem to minimize the fuel draining into the carb. Anyway, when I am ready to start each engine, I hook up the driver, open the needle about two (2) turns and hit it with the starter. Next, I run up the throttle, tweak the needle just a hair off peak, throttle back to about half and move to the next engine repeating the steps mentioned. At that point I'm just hoping I don't have to go back to restart one because there's really so little room between those spinning APC's and getting "bit" can make one say some most inappropriate words

As for oil, for the most part, I use the Brodak 10/23 because I've had superb operating runs with nearly all of my engines. For my older Fox's and McCoys I prefer to use the Brodak 10/29 but I haven't tried it in the engines on baby Doc, as I believe they are probably 80's vintage.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:32:43 AM »

This is the process I use to sync up 2 or more engines, by the way I never tach the engines they sound about the same so they are probably within 500-1000 RPM of each other.

1) Run each engine by itself, run to full power to idle and set the high speed needle, make sure it runs a good idle
2) then start all of the engines, at this point you don't touch the needle valve
3) then throttle back to idle and watch which one shuts down first, 2nd, 3rd, 4th
4) lengthen the pushrod for the engine that shuts down first to speed up the idle, notice you do not touch the needle valve
5) restart all of the engines and bring it back to idle, repeat step 3 and 4 until all of the engines shut down at the same time

Fred

Jim Carter · « **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2016, 01:01:48 PM »

Quote from: Fred Cronenwett on June 16, 2016, 11:32:43 AM

This is the process I use to sync up 2 or more engines, by the way I never tach the engines they sound about the same so they are probably within 500-1000 RPM of each other.

1) Run each engine by itself, run to full power to idle and set the high speed needle, make sure it runs a good idle
2) then start all of the engines, at this point you don't touch the needle valve
3) then throttle back to idle and watch which one shuts down first, 2nd, 3rd, 4th
4) lengthen the pushrod for the engine that shuts down first to speed up the idle, notice you do not touch the needle valve
5) restart all of the engines and bring it back to idle, repeat step 3 and 4 until all of the engines shut down at the same time

Fred

Sweet! I'll keep it in mind the next time I take'er out!

Author Topic: KYO B-29 (Read 4567 times)

Jim Carter

KYO B-29

Chris McMillin

Re: KYO B-29

Paul Smith

Re: KYO B-29

Fred Cronenwett

Re: KYO B-29

john e. holliday

Re: KYO B-29

Jim Carter

Re: KYO B-29

Fred Cronenwett

Re: KYO B-29

Jim Carter

Re: KYO B-29

Paul Smith

Re: KYO B-29

Fred Cronenwett

Re: KYO B-29

Jim Carter

Re: KYO B-29

Fred Cronenwett

Re: KYO B-29

Dan McEntee

Re: KYO B-29

Jim Carter

Re: KYO B-29

Fred Cronenwett

Re: KYO B-29

Jim Carter

Re: KYO B-29