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Author Topic: spider webbing?  (Read 3568 times)

Offline Jim Oliver

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spider webbing?
« on: November 11, 2016, 04:58:19 PM »
I have had two occasions with Sig dope spider webbing or crazing as/when it dries, only over open bays covered with silk span and only when brushed with thinned Sig clear (don't have spray capability).  Once when I covered with colored Sig silkspan using Sig clear only and once with white (natural color) silkspan which had been doped with Sig gray and then had Sig Flatcoat brushed on to give flat finish.

All thinner and retarder are Sig products.

What am I doing wrong??
Jim Oliver
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 05:12:19 PM »
it sounds like you either built up the layers to fast, not enough dry time, or to much retarder prevented it from drying quickly enough.
I would normally say it sounds like laquer over enamal but since you used all SIG products, I would have to say its likely just to much to fast,,
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 05:14:38 PM »
The base gray had dried for several months and crazed with the first brushed coat of Flatcoat............
Jim Oliver
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 11:23:19 AM »
No contamination in my case....wonder if it's because of the time lapse between color and clear??

Also can't understand why it only happens on covered open bays and not on sheeted areas that have been covered with the same finish n~ 
Jim Oliver
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2016, 11:54:41 AM »
No contamination in my case....wonder if it's because of the time lapse between color and clear??

Also can't understand why it only happens on covered open bays and not on sheeted areas that have been covered with the same finish n~ 

Jim,

I believe Ty might be on to something? Not sure though.

Also, and I know you're experienced with the use of dope products, but do you sand the open bays?

I put no paint over shine. I always scratch the surface up.

Charles
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2016, 12:20:21 PM »
Charles,
Any sanding of bays is very light wet with very fine paper before rub out, but in this case little if any due to flat warbird finish.

Gonna have to do some sanding to smooth the ridges/cracks from the crazing:(
Jim Oliver
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2016, 12:31:42 PM »
You would be wise to remove all of the material that crazed, its very likely that the problem is in the lower layers and sanding then repaint will not solve it.

I am curious how much  retarder you used..what temp was it when you painted, humidity, etc,,
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 04:48:40 PM »
Charles,
Any sanding of bays is very light wet with very fine paper before rub out, but in this case little if any due to flat warbird finish.

Gonna have to do some sanding to smooth the ridges/cracks from the crazing:(

Jim,

Not sure if you have looked into it yet but the 2K clears are available in semi-gloss and flat.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 10:32:29 PM »
You would be wise to remove all of the material that crazed, its very likely that the problem is in the lower layers and sanding then repaint will not solve it.

I am curious how much  retarder you used..what temp was it when you painted, humidity, etc,,

I don't use much retarder but can't give an exact percentage.  I apply dope in A/C shop so temp is mid 70* with ~40% humidity.
Jim Oliver
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2016, 06:51:29 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.
After some experiments, it seems that I applied the clear too heavily in both cases (Flatcoat and gloss).  I used a full brush as I normally would do but for some reason it didn't work.

When I finished applying Flatcoat with a "dry" brush I got no spiderwebbing n~
Jim Oliver
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Offline tom hampshire

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2016, 08:08:43 AM »
     Jim, you might have some luck with this old trick.  Try a test patch of clear dope thinned 50-50, with a tablespoon of castor oil added to a quart of thinned dope.  It will take at least a week to dry, but can restore flex and a plastic feel to even the worst cracked and crazed dope finish.  The castor makes the top coat seep down into the cracks and meld the entire finish back together.  This was a pretty well known fix for Aerogloss 50 years ago.  It wasn't dope, but acrylic lacquer and was way too stiff for open bay work.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2016, 10:08:40 PM »
Is there another "plasticizer" than castor oil? Seems to me there is something to use on the new plastic bumper covers and such. Don't know if it would work with butyrate dope. Mark?  D>K Steve
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Offline TigreST

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Re: spider webbing?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2016, 10:34:08 AM »
Here's an approach that is very much the more extreme mode of fixing.  Start over!  That is to say, start over with the finish in the effected area's.  Many moons ago I started a repair to a crashed Twister.  
The wing was salvageable, other than some holes punched in the silk-span covering.  Throwing caution to the winds I bought a gallon of cheap hardware store (Canadian Tire) lacquer thinner and a couple rolls of paper towels. I soaked the wing in the thinner in a controlled fashion and in very short order had the wing down to it's base layer.  I had somewhat expected that the remaining tissue might begin to lift off the surface, this did not happen at all.  Attached is a picture of the wing in a new fuselage with the open bay silk-span panels that survived the crash.  With care you can control where you apply your efforts and protect other area's you wish to save.  I think total time to get the wing down to base was maybe about an hour or so. It sure beat careful sanding around the area's.

Tony Bagley
Ontario, Canada


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