News:


  • March 28, 2024, 10:25:38 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote  (Read 7235 times)

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« on: January 26, 2017, 12:31:41 PM »
I have searched and read many many posts on using shrink coverings and still at a loss about where and when to pick one over another

I have some meager experience with SLC, Mono-Kote, Econo-Kote, Brodak, Century 21 Coverite, FasCal,  and I  suck at using any of them as far a any compound curve or final trimming is concerned

So thinking I would leap to UltraCote because my Buddy Dane Martin likes the stuff...and he Or brother Bad Bill are good enough to make a plane look painted ...using iron on stuff

Butt, then, I get further confused because there is another three weights to decide on UltraCote, Parklite, and EasyCote

I fly Glow only...Mostly 1/2a and typical .35 planes like Ringmaster, by myself...only for my fun--- with no competition in mind

OK let me a bit specific:

I plan to build a Pat Johnston Ring Master 526 and a Sig kit Twister in the near future... In both cases Rustoleum (or other spray bomb enamel) fuselage and tail feathers

I assume my technique for heating and stretching the wing tips is flawed some how... I always end up with the un glued excess that needs cut away too wrinkly to effectively trim nice, despite using all the great tools and sharp blades

I would like to up my finishing game this year

I do an OK job with silk/polyspan/tissue/SilkSpan and dope type coverings----but for a lot of my fleet I desire a easier and faster covering method

Half tempted to fly to Las Vegas and have Dane teach me

But for now would like opinions on the different KOTES and specifically what you guys think of UltraCote and it's variations
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline fred cesquim

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
    • Fred Cesquim Aeromodelos
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 01:57:34 PM »
this may be helpfull
http://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/monokoting-wingtip/
have been using monokote and oracover (ultracote) for the past 25 years
have tried other brands, none delivered the same result. IMHO stick with one of the 2, despite the price. lasts almost forever, never fades colors, once attached properly never lift
the link shows my wing tip method
good luck
Fred

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12804
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 03:40:46 PM »
UltraCote regular, on the 35-sized stuff, until you're good at it.

Then try lighter stuff on the 1/2-A models (and make sure it's fuel proof).  It'll be more frustrating, but if you start with the UltraCote then you'll have some knowledge to build on.

Get this book, if you're at all good at learning stuff by reading: https://www.amazon.com/Covering-Airplanes-Step--Step-Encyclopedia/dp/0911295208/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8.  The book says to use Monocoat -- use UltraCote; Monocoat ain't what it used to be.

I'm sure there's videos out there, too, but I wouldn't have any idea of what one to recommend. 
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 10:32:26 AM »
Just because I hate* this sites photo up-loader, I will try to describe my problem in words

BTW way thanks for the responses...much appreciated

I guess the two part question is:

Better answered

By you guys, if I better describe my problem...specifically trimming away the wing tip shrink film after doing a some what good job of stretching it and gluing it down....


LE and TE stick and trim is not a great problem if the cut tool, scalpel, ExactO, scissor, or Higgley trim blade holder are used

My problem comes at the wing tip after I do a fair job of heating , stretching, and adhering the cover to conform.

The area I need to trim away is now bunched up, some times stuck to itself, but usually very wrinkly.

No blade I have will cut it away nice and neat in something looking like a straight line around the perimeter of the wing tip...not a big problem for the fist panel but the next panel wing top... needs to over lap a bit ....this covers the unsightly trim of the bottom covering...

I have tried various methods of over lap and stretch, but each still yields bunched up shrink covering that will NOT cut/trim cleanly and look seamless ...like I can and do make the LE and TE look

Having never seen how the guys good at this do this,  I am not sure if I am too hot, too cool, sticking down in the right area (too centered on the wing tip) or should be stretching a lot more and sticking to the top or underside for a wider over lap

I actually spent too much time looking for just one good You-Tube of a perfect wing tip...I am sure it is out there but I did not find it

Excuses to fly to Vegas is gaining momentum

*I actually like this site a LOT ----Thanks Robert

But I got real spoiled on many other sites where you drag n drop a photo in a link box that does the proper resizing and lets you copy the URL and place it anywhere in the post

FWIIW ... this is one of three sites I frequent that make it hard to post photos

OK OK, yes it is easy to place a photo here ----BUT THERE IS NO WORKING PREVIEW!!!



"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22752
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 10:17:32 AM »
My self, I don't worry about the little wrinkles at the wing tip as they are usually under the center line of the tip.  But I have a couple of times taken the stretch of the covering past the center of the tip.  This is after the top is just put on.  Cut the excess to where it is about 1/4 inch overlap.   Then I cut the excess that is left with the sharp Ex-Acto knife into strips and then iron down using a trim iron over lapping the pieces.  It takes time.  But when I use iron on coverings I don't expect a 20 point finish.  I have been given points in the mid range. 12-15 points.

By the way in most local contests unless you are flying Advance or expert you can make up the difference in flying a better pattern than your competition until you are told to move up.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2017, 07:43:22 PM »
First, Fred Cesquim is the man on iron on coverings. Really!

So I'm seeing and understanding that when you go to cut off the excess, it's not a straight line? Is that correct sir?
Same as top and bottom of a profoile fuse,  if I'm understanding what you're asking

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12804
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2017, 09:58:46 PM »
My problem comes at the wing tip after I do a fair job of heating , stretching, and adhering the cover to conform.

The area I need to trim away is now bunched up, some times stuck to itself, but usually very wrinkly.

No blade I have will cut it away nice and neat in something looking like a straight line around the perimeter of the wing tip...not a big problem for the fist panel but the next panel wing top... needs to over lap a bit ....this covers the unsightly trim of the bottom covering...

I have tried various methods of over lap and stretch, but each still yields bunched up shrink covering that will NOT cut/trim cleanly and look seamless ...like I can and do make the LE and TE look

Having never seen how the guys good at this do this,  I am not sure if I am too hot, too cool, sticking down in the right area (too centered on the wing tip) or should be stretching a lot more and sticking to the top or underside for a wider over lap

Are you cutting the 'coat long, holding it with a gloved hand, and playing a heat gun over it as you stretch it over the wing tip?

If you're trying to do it with an iron, that's your first problem and it's a big one.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Alex Rillos

  • Scratch Builder
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 07:42:38 PM »
Fred, my opinion is the same as most replies here. Stick with Ultracote. Monokote was very good 40 years ago, not anymore. I use 2 irons, one on Low (3/4 and on socks) and the second one on Hi (trim iron). A heat gun goes after all to remove any wrinkles. For me, the most important is to keep the seams in order, bottom first for wing and stab. Fuse bottom first from back to front also.
Always tack with the low temp iron to avoid trap bubbles, later complete with the trim hot iron if needed, and finish with the heat gun far from the seams. If you have a wrinkle close to the seam (most cases) use the hot trim iron which you do not even need to touch the Ultracote, but hovering almost touching it is enough to stretch most wrinkles without pulling the seam. To trim film edges I use a very sharp double edge blade (a must have). Another option, for those on a lower budget like myself, is Towerkote. For me it is better than Monokote and costs half the price ($8.99 a roll)  ;D
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 08:26:55 PM by Alex Rillos »

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 09:07:11 AM »
Thanks guys for all the opinions, thoughts, and suggestions...I am good every where and can actually put down a utilitarian plastic finish with EconoKote, Mono Kote, Coverite, and some of the krap Hobby King china Kote

To date the only product I hate and will not ever use again is Brodak Black.... the color glue will not stay stuck to the plastic film and just makes a grand mess

My only real problem is most likely MY technique for the wing tip curves..like, for example a typical Ringmaster tip

I have Temp controlled Irons... One with sock and one bare....temp checked with either a "on the shoe" temp Gage or my IR thermal temp gun ( with laser...grin)

I have each of the instructions..(So I know the glue temp and shrink temps) for each materiel under my building glass for easy reference

I use one of two heat guns. One is a commercial Portable Gable adjustable heat range and fan, and other one, a very cheap (but I LOVE), Heatalizer 3000 designed for solder reflow work... light weight,  focused heat, and very easy to control over a spot or area

My problem is each time I heat and stretch for a wing tip curve ...I can do this with out wrinkles out to the edge of the wing tip...BUT the resulting UN GLUED down material is all bunched up and impossible to TRIM without being Ugly

Perhaps my final wing tip edge profile thickness is too wide or too thin and I am trying to trim a straight line in the wrong place...

Perhaps I just need to see an example of a good one, and the process, to have that AH HA! moment

Again thanks guys...I truly appreciate the time you spent responding
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Dennis Heckel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 10:28:24 AM »
Hi Fred,

Check these out, part three shows how he does wingtips.







He makes it look easy, some people just have the "touch".

Dennis Heckel
One cross thread is as good as two lock washers.

Offline Fredvon4

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Central Texas
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 01:13:47 PM »
Thanks Dennis....Looks like I just need more practice and slight change of heat and shrink tip technique

I apreciate the the videos
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 01:19:35 PM »
Lol, thanks for the videos Dennis. That's my friend Larry Marx. He's my iron on hero!

Offline Chancey Chorney

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 07:38:38 PM »
Lol, thanks for the videos Dennis. That's my friend Larry Marx. He's my iron on hero!

Firstly thanks for sharing the videos. Secondly, I was surprised as I originally thought it was going to be you Dane doing another great tutorial! Than I heard teh voice and knew then it wasn't.

Offline Dennis Heckel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 07:46:10 PM »
You're welcome guys, I've had them saved in my favorites to watch every once in awhile.

He makes it look easy.

Dennis Heckel
One cross thread is as good as two lock washers.

Offline Dane Martin

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
  • heli pilot BHOR
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 09:00:55 PM »
Firstly thanks for sharing the videos. Secondly, I was surprised as I originally thought it was going to be you Dane doing another great tutorial! Than I heard teh voice and knew then it wasn't.

I'm building some planes for big brother Phast Phreddie, and the gentleman in the video, Larry, is building me a twin enya 35 powered F82 right now!
We're in the same club. He's really just a great guy.

Offline badbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Shrink coverings like Mono-Kote
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 06:57:00 AM »
Fred, Did you ever hear about the guy that asked the cab driver in New York how to get to Carnegie Hall ? His answer was practice, practice, practice!

Bill Davenport
AMA 28141
If some is good, and more is better, then too much is just right!


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here