USA F2 World Cup Contests?

[Norm Furutani]

During the F2 World champs, there were a few comments regarding the warm-up World Cup contests ( I saw you, ChrisB!, you weren't totally invisible!). I was wondering why I don't see any World Cup events here in the USA. It's been a huge success in free flight and probably in other disciplines. Last February, the Isaacson/Kiwi World Cup drew over 300 entries. In combination with the Canadian World Cup and the Maxmen World Cup, we had over 800 entries in a one week period at Lost Hills, CA. (Pics and results at: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=44563)

Just thinking out loud.

Norm Furutani, co-CD Isaacson Winter Classic/Kiwi World Cup

[Lauri Malila]

I'd love to come to a F2 cup in US too. What I have seen so far, even such thing as getting the FAI sporting licence is an obstacle big enough to prevent many from participating. In UK and Europe I mean.
Also, as I've seen in F1 cups in US, there are other fees to pay before you are allowed to fly. But those are ok, just pennies compared to travel costs.

Lauri

[Norm Furutani]

Lauri, thanks for the reply. Not getting much action on this post! Not sure how the controline world cup events are done, but in FF, countries are limited to sponsoring only 2 or 3 per year. Being World Cup Champion has become a prestigious title and sought by many. Unlike the World Champs, the title is determined by performance at several contests rather than just one. Participation is open to all fliers and it is common to find novice fliers amongst current and former World Champs. We've been sponsoring World Cup contests since the late 80's and we have participants, who have become good friends from over 30+ countries. As an example, I would love to see in person, Lauri's beautiful handcrafted engines and planes in action!

Norm Furutani

[BillLee]

Norm, how many different FF classes are flown at one of the Lost Hills World Cup events?

How many folks does it take to run one of the World Cup events?

BTW, the current rules for World Cup events are 2/country, or for large countries like the U.S., 2 per time zone. The big problem with running ANY FAI event in the U.S. is the FAI requirements for judges and jury members being from different countries. Obviously, another example of the Euro-centric nature of the FAI in general and the World Cup in particular. The cost of importing "foreigners" to a U.S. World Cup event has to be borne by holding multiple events in a short time and sharing the costs (as the Lost Hills events do), or have a sugar daddy with deep pockets. 

[Norm Furutani]

Bill- Thanks for the reply!

Norm, how many different FF classes are flown at one of the Lost Hills World Cup events?
Ans. Six World Cup - F1A, B, C, P, Q and E. Plus the 4 non WC events, F1G, H, J and S

How many folks does it take to run one of the World Cup events?
Ans. 8 - 2 CD's, 3 event directors/score keepers , and 3 jurists. All volunteers.

BTW, the current rules for World Cup events are 2/country, or for large countries like the U.S., 2 per time zone. The big problem with running ANY FAI event in the U.S. is the FAI requirements for judges and jury members being from different countries. Obviously, another example of the Euro-centric nature of the FAI in general and the World Cup in particular. The cost of importing "foreigners" to a U.S. World Cup event has to be borne by holding multiple events in a short time and sharing the costs (as the Lost Hills events do), or have a sugar daddy with deep pockets. 

If we had to cover all costs for officials, this would not be feasible.

Obviously, I am not in tune with all that would be required for a U/C World Cup, but this is why I posed the question. The World Cup series in FF has help promote FAI FF. It has gotten many of us to travel around the world. I'm thinking USA U/C is missing out?

Norm Furutani, 1989 F1B, World Cup Champion, lousy beginning level stunt flier.

[Igor Burger]

The big problem with running ANY FAI event in the U.S. is the FAI requirements for judges and jury members being from different countries.

The same is about contestants, if I remember well, you need at least 3 countries, may be you shoud suggest rules change to accept time zones also for that.

[Tim Wescott]

The same is about contestants, if I remember well, you need at least 3 countries, may be you shoud suggest rules change to accept time zones also for that.

There's lots of stunt in Canada, and at least some in Mexico -- would it be too bad of a drive for folks if there were a contest close to the 40th parallel?

Maybe we could talk Texas and Quebec into secession, just to assist the process all around.  Or Cascadia could finally unite and secede, although we'd have to get Vancouver and Vancouver sorted if we did that.

[BillLee]

The elephant in the room that all ignore is what Norm said: "All volunteers".

Unless you have done it, (and very few have, particularly in the U.S.!), organizing a World Cup event is an immense amount of work. Everybody says , "Why don't we ..." when in reality they mean "Why don't you ...".

Running a W-Cup in the U.S. is quite do-able: why don't you ....

 

[Brett Buck]

The elephant in the room that all ignore is what Norm said: "All volunteers".

Unless you have done it, (and very few have, particularly in the U.S.!), organizing a World Cup event is an immense amount of work. Everybody says , "Why don't we ..." when in reality they mean "Why don't you ...".

Running a W-Cup in the U.S. is quite do-able: why don't you ....

 

     I am sure Norm, as a long time world-class competitor, is aware of that one. But a lot of the other ideas we get start with "why don't you guys just xxxxx?" and that is a RED FLAG.

     It's different from FF, where the various events take different airplanes and approach than normal AMA events, and, the FAI events are pretty popular. FAI Combat takes different airplanes and is pretty popular (maybe the only healthy combat event) but in stunt, it's identical and aside from the occasional overrun, the competitors can't tell the difference. Speed and TR, for whatever their merits as events, are not well-supported and if the people who know what they are doing were running the contest, that takes up a large fraction of the potential US entrants.

      We already have many well-run large contests that anyone can attend if they choose to, so why do you need to complicate it by adding FAI on top of it? Adding FAI (requiring FAI membership on top of the existing AMA) cuts many people out of the contest and that won't be made up with foreigners coming in for it.  Igor and Ritchie can come to the NWR next weekend, the NATs, or Golden State, with no changes required for anyone and get exactly the same competition they would at a World Cup.

   It's not like a "World Cup" has any great cachet that will raise your prestige - we had then entire US FAI team at a local contest last October, and we could field 5 legitimate FAI teams from the NAT entries just from the regular crew. We already have full crews of world-class judges.

    The only way this could ever work is to change Expert at a large local contest to "FAI", run it with the existing people, not require an FAI sporting license, and just call it a "World Cup". I can't see that happening, or what the point would be.

     Brett

   

[bob whitney]

 in Europe the W/Cup is a series with contest being held in each country  .at the end of the year a hi point winner in each class is crowned

Brett is right, there is really no need for a W/Cup stunt event  in the US as it would still be the same flyers .
we held a speed and racing W/Cup a few years ago  in Bowling Green KY and had the same US speed flyers that show up for a normal speed contest.
 here in the US we have trouble getting enough F2C flyers to have 3 up flying witch puts us behind when going to the W/Champs .we had some Europeans come over and gave us a chance to see and fly with them .but again the  US flyers are the same that show up at the Nats . maybe we could combine a W/Cup with the Nats and get them to come back over and fly with us

[Norm Furutani]

OK, guys, this  is not what I was trying to do and I will quietly butt out  . Our contest has been running for over 25 years and it started as a simple fun fly, every time we stepped it up we looked at each other and said "are you crazy?". We would knock it around for awhile and came up with solutions. It's been fun and yes, a lot of work, but worth it.

I'll leave this with some of my son's photos, turn up the sound! https://www.flickr.com/photos/44670670@N02/5450373210/in/album-72157625927009389/

This years:https://www.flickr.com/photos/44670670@N02/albums/72157662197237204

Norm