Two handles (one for each line) like a stunt kite? Who's tried it? Work?

[Pat Chewning]

I'm much better at flying stunt kites than control-line precision aerobatics.  For stunt kites we use one handle for each line.  For CL we use a single handle.  I'm sure someone has tried flying control-line planes using the stunt-kite approach.   I might want to give it a try some time.  What worked, and what didn't?

Anyone try this?

[wwwarbird]

I'm much better at flying stunt kites than control-line precision aerobatics.  For stunt kites we use one handle for each line.  For CL we use a single handle.  I'm sure someone has tried flying control-line planes using the stunt-kite approach.   I might want to give it a try some time.  What worked, and what didn't?

Anyone try this?

 If you try it, make sure someone gets a video.

[Fred Underwood]

Try the kite while spinning circles and keep the lines even and the kite level, and that in the Delta Park washing machine, and don't forget the video. 

[pat king]

The only time I have flown a stunt kite I used an Ez Just handle. I flew the kite with one hand. It was similar to flying a C/L airplane. I must say that it might be a problem for someone who isn't 250 pounds with decent hand and arm strength. That sucker pulled like a John Deere. It was a lot of fun.
I don't think I could coordinate both hands well enough to fly a C/L airplane.

Pat

[Dan Berry]

Take a video for us. I don't think it will be a long video.

[Pat Chewning]

Everyone wants video .... are you expecting something entertaining?

Speaking of entertaining flights, you should have seen me on Monday flying my Ringmaster in the grass.  The stooge release line got wrapped around one foot, then the other, then both feet were tightly bound up.   I managed to "land" the Ringmaster with the engine running.   After the flight I had to spin the opposite direction to unwind.   Ron Anderson and Don Curry were almost falling out of their chairs watching me dance around with the line wrapping me up.  The  Ringmaster was not damaged at all and I flew later on but THROWING the stooge line away from the center circle after it had served its purpose of releasing the plane.

[RknRusty]

Two handles seems to be the way some people who don't know, think I fly control line when I tell them about it.

[afml]

OK.....
Same...But different....
Once upon a time, AT A CONTEST!!
An elderly gentleman had entered OTS with a Fox 35 powered Ringmaster.
Never flown the new plane.
Never had entered a contest.
But HAD flown C/L 'back in the day'.
The CD asked if I would go out to the circle with him "JUST IN CASE he needed help."
We walked out to center circle after someone else started the almost new Fox 35.
He waved for release.....
Then the fun began!  YEP! Wingover takeoff!
Classic response: "Hey! Where did it go?"
No crash. but after re-orientating the 'pilot' with the 'where-bouts' of the plane,
we settled down to level (?) flight.
Then came the anticipated remark: "I THINK I'm dizzy!"
So I released his 'death grip' on the handle and as soon as I had it I said to take off the safety thong.
TOO LATE!!
PLOP! Down he went with the thong still attached to his wrist!
And yep....Zing went the handle out of my hand slicing my palm nicely.
The safety thong did it's thing and the plane continued in a series of small outside loops.
I grabbed the lines, (Yea...WHAT WAS I THINKING!) and proceeded to de-loop the plane while yelling:
"TAKE OFF THE THONG!"....Never thought of this till now.....
But luckily he wasn't actually WEARING a real one.   
Finally the 'safety thong' was released and I continued flying with a line in each hand till I was able to slowly
slide the lines down and regain a grip on the handle.
Landed safely. All was well, except the gash in my palm.
Never saw or heard from him again.
Sorry for the long banter....
So you CAN fly with a line in each hand.
Using two handles would have been better!
Don't think any 'Precision Aerobatics' would be possible.
"Tight Lines!"
Wes

[Air Ministry .]

Sounds like a case for a 24 inch bellcrank . 

[Zuriel Armstrong]

Howdy Wes.  I remember that event very well.  We all thought we would see your had fall off on the ground when the lines slid through your hands.  You were the hero that day.  You saved the plane and helped the unknown flier get safely to the ground. 

In the words of Hancock "Good Job"

[Joe Gilbert]

Yes I did fly with Handel in each hand like with a stunt kite it was little wild till I push both hands together and just moved one hand to control plane the twelve inch bellcrank would be a good idea. Had the bright idea of flying with two key rings one on up line on pointer finger and down on pinky finger. The Ringmaster pulled harder than I thought it would   I didn't do it again. Once was enough 😀😀

[Russell Shaffer]

Pat, be very careful throwing the stooge line.  Just a little bit too high and it will get over the lines and then things get exciting.  Yes, I have done it twice. 

[john e. holliday]

Yep, throwing stooge line is bad, don't ask me how I know.   My stooge is long enough that when I pull the control lines tight I have to reach a little for the stooge line.  Once released I drop it as the stretch of the line pulls it away from me and I also back up a few steps.  This nis where I'm glad I know how to control a plane.  Lie this past weekend flying rough ground, I was stumbling all over the place.  After a couple of laps I planted my feet and started doing loops and eights plus wingovers. 

Now back to subject.  I tried flying a kite with separate handles and had trouble controlling it.  It was one of the smaller combat kites.   Went to a large handle like control line and flew it like a control liner, except keeping the kite down wind.

[NED-088]

I'm much better at flying stunt kites than control-line precision aerobatics.  For stunt kites we use one handle for each line.  For CL we use a single handle.  I'm sure someone has tried flying control-line planes using the stunt-kite approach.   I might want to give it a try some time.  What worked, and what didn't?

Anyone try this?

Somewhere back in 1966, we had the Amsterdam CL scene flooded with ARF CL trainers with a .09 Webra diesel for cheap.
The first guy I saw flying one had the dacron lines wrapped around his hands, with the handle dangling in between.
Flying like a roller coaster I saw my feeling confirmed that he was doing something entirely wrong.
No need to say that I started out myself, a few weeks later, holding the handle as it should be, vertical and with the up line on top.

Never understood why kite operators voluntarily give up some of the finesse...

[Steve Helmick]

Doc...I have flown a "Stunt Kite" once...two lines, two handles. No "Handels" were present. I have also flown a "Combat Kite", which is a single line kite, adjusted to go straight with tension and go into a "glide" circle with line slack. The Stunt Kite was enough like flying CL that I didn't have much trouble with it, and the Combat Kite was very similar to flying a "Circle Tow" equipped F1A/Nordic Glider (towline glider).

To answer Pat's question...I think it would be a crash waiting to happen. Please do NOT make a video of the crash!  Steve 

[John Rist]

The short answer in NO!.  I fly both two line stunt kites and control line airplanes.  The amount of deflection needed to get a stunt kite too preform is huge.  A standard control line handle would not work on a kite.  Not enough throw.  For the same reason two handles on an airplane would give too much control. Prisum kites are one of the best (expensive).  Watch the video called Kite Axel on this site:

http://www.prismkites.com/lounge-video.php

(may have to copy and past this one).

You will see extreme hand/arme movement to do a trick.  My biggest kite I fly on 80 lb x 80ft test line.  I am a big boy - on a windy day it pulls like a bear.

[Mark Scarborough]

Everyone wants video .... are you expecting something entertaining?

Speaking of entertaining flights, you should have seen me on Monday flying my Ringmaster in the grass.  The stooge release line got wrapped around one foot, then the other, then both feet were tightly bound up.   I managed to "land" the Ringmaster with the engine running.   After the flight I had to spin the opposite direction to unwind.   Ron Anderson and Don Curry were almost falling out of their chairs watching me dance around with the line wrapping me up.  The  Ringmaster was not damaged at all and I flew later on but THROWING the stooge line away from the center circle after it had served its purpose of releasing the plane.

Pat, make sure you dont THROW the stooge line across your flying lines, its not a good thing there either,,

who me? no I would NEVER do something that silly
especially right after I wound myself up in the stooge line,,

[Trostle]

Yes I did fly with Handel in each hand like with a stunt kite it was little wild till I push both hands together and just moved one hand to control plane the twelve inch bellcrank would be a good idea. Had the bright idea of flying with two key rings one on up line on pointer finger and down on pinky finger. The Ringmaster pulled harder than I thought it would   I didn't do it again. Once was enough 😀😀

One of the first times, if not the first time, that the Chinese F2B team attended the CL World Championships was in Sweden, 1982.  One of the Chinese team members did not use a handle.  Instead, each line was connected to a ring, one on his index finger, the other on either his ring finger or his little finger, I do not remember which.  What was even more interesting is that his coach showed me how he positioned his fingers for the different maneuvers.  For loops and level flight, the fingers were held closely together to reduce sensitivity.  For the squares and triangle, the fingers were spread apart for increased control throw.  (That was the first time the Chinese were on the world stage.  They made a respectable showing.  I will have to go back in my records to see how they did, but probably would not be able to determine the placing of the individual who used the rings on his fingers.)  (They also sent a combat F2D team, but that is another story.)

Keith

[Steve Thompson]

"For loops and level flight, the fingers were held closely together to reduce sensitivity.  For the squares and triangle, the fingers were spread apart for increased control throw."

A low-technology approach to active line spacing at handle?

[paw080]

I'm much better at flying stunt kites than control-line precision aerobatics.  For stunt kites we use one handle for each line.  For CL we use a single handle.  I'm sure someone has tried flying control-line planes using the stunt-kite approach.   I might want to give it a try some time.  What worked, and what didn't?

Anyone try this?

Hi Pat, Stunt kites fly much, much better when both lines are attached to one handle!  About 25 years ago,

Charles Mackey produced a stunt kite billed as a stunt trainer, again, both lines were attached to a single handle.

Sadly, I never saw any prospective stunt flyer tyros buy them nor fly them. Happily the Mackey kites were wildly

popular with us, the Combat flyers.  I've flown four way Stunt Kite Combat with Barry Baxter, Rich Lopez and

 Steve Hills, madly going for the plastic streamers. That was in the latter 1980s. We taught control line rookies

to fly all maneuvers possible(except wingovers), using the Mackey kites.  At least four adults and my twin sons(9-10 years old)

flew insides, outsides, lazy eights and inverted flight on their VERY FIRST control line flight.

  I've given up trying to  convince new  C//L modelers to start learning to fly with a stunt kite instead of a control line profile model.  

Anyway Pat, my favorite stunt kite is the Prism Micron; the first version fly's faster and turns tighter than the latest version.

I fly it on 50lb X 60' Blue line Spectra using a single handle with 10" line spacing; and no tail to slow it down.

  It feels like an F2d Combat ship when flown in 15mph+ wind. I should time it some day, But it really feels like an F2d combat

 model flying in excess of 90mph. It feels best to me when the wind exceeds 20mph.  

Hello readers, I found a video of the latest version of the Prism Micron being flown in wind in excess of 15 mph.



The flyer is using two handles, imagine the fun flying this kite with a single handle. It's just a matter of practice;
 
I can fly the entire stunt pattern except wing overs and 360 degree laps at this speed.  Remember, a single flight

is not limited to less than 8 minute sessions.  You can fly this kite for over an hour if your arm doesn't give out.   

Tony


 

[Don Chandler]

I have flown scale and carrier planes using that method but not for many years. I'll never do it again for scale however back in the WAM days that's is how  we flew WAM carrier and it worked very well. Never tried it for stunt and never will, I have enough trouble flying this event with one handle much less two.

[wwwarbird]

Everyone wants video .... are you expecting something entertaining?

 Yes, in fact I'd bet on it..

[Larry Renger]

If you are interested in getting more control with added handle deflection, search for the threads on exponential handles.  Here is a drawing of my latest version.