Thoughts on flying with a bad shoulder

[Tim Wescott]

So, I was contemplating my bad shoulder today, and thinking about yet another season of not flying.

I can't reliably extend my shoulder more than about 30 degrees upward, at least not routinely.  I don't know if surgery is necessary, or just doing the exercises (I've been doing research, and statistically you do about as well with PT alone as you do with surgery + PT.  I'm sure this is different if you only include people who are really torn up, though).  Either way, though, I'd be another year recovering.

So, I'm thinking about making a harness to go right under my arms that will bear the pull of the plane, with some sort of pivoting gizmo to support the handle.  Then I'll hold my hand across my chest -- like Napoleon, only without the jacket -- and control the airplane by pivoting my entire forearm instead of moving my wrist up and down.

So -- what do y'all think?  Good idea, stupid?  Been tried and works, been tried and went down in flames?

I may have to switch to competition free flight or something.

[Mike Haverly]

Bad idea!  Get the surgery, PT and man up!  (Tongue firmly in cheek).  I feel your pain, I have a lot of things that worked better a few years ago.

[Fred Underwood]

How about obtaining an orthopedic opinion and probably an MRI, and then making a knowledgeable decision.  Perhaps you have already have seen ortho and not shared that.  If not, research on shoulder pain without a specific diagnosis may not be helpful.  Statistics for what is best medicine are usually based on what is known to be wrong, a diagnosis and not symptoms only.

[Tim Wescott]

How about obtaining an orthopedic opinion and probably an MRI, and then making a knowledgeable decision.  Perhaps you have already have seen ortho and not shared that.  If not, research on shoulder pain without a specific diagnosis may not be helpful.  Statistics for what is best medicine are usually based on what is known to be wrong, a diagnosis and not symptoms only.

That's on the "to do" list, but I've got other medical stuff going on at the moment, and I'm trying to keep the bills paid.

I have just been going to my GP, but my next step is to ask for a referral to a specialist, I think.  Hopefully the one she sent me to for my knees -- the one that looked at my X rays, said "yes, there's definitely something there, and we would cut into you if you insisted, but you really don't need it".

It's not that I mind getting cut into -- it's just that if it's not going to do any good then I'd rather not, thank you very much.  And even if I do go under the knife, I'd still have to sit out at least one more season unless I can figure out a way to fly that doesn't stress the shoulder.

[Fred Underwood]

And I'm not voting for surgery, but for a diagnosis and corresponding treatment.  PT, shoulder steroid, surgery.....   Any or all of those.  I would like to see you flying and enjoying life without all the pain.  A diagnosis and fix may the most economical solution, you can get on with work and life at a normal pace.   OK, off soapbox

[Mike Scholtes]

Sorry this is still such an issue for you. Of course, the best thing is a proper medical evaluation and then appropriate treatment, but you already know that. I can say from my own experience with traumatic severing of rotator cuff tendons in a fall on my right shoulder that PT did nothing except hurt like hell and not fix the underlying problem. This went on for several month before I elected for surgery to reattach the cut tendons. This is not an injury that will heal by itself if it is serious enough to require surgery, according to my surgeon. Cortisone shots help for time but weaken the tissues and are not advisable other than as a technique to determine what is causing the pain, again according to my surgeon.

The surgery was no bed of roses either. Recovery was slow and very painful. However I know other people who had similar surgery and recovered quickly without significant pain, so it appears to be idiosyncratic. Again, no help to you until you know for certain what is causing the pain and limitation on motion.

Fifteen years post-op my shoulder still hurts some, I can't reach overhead, and CL flying requires a lot of overhead reaching. As a practical temporary solution you can try supporting the hurt arm with the other by bracing under the raised (handle holding) arm, which is what I have to do. This takes the weight off the tendons in the shoulder, for me anyway, and allows fairly pain-free flying. I can imagine a belt or something from the collar or neck to the raised wrist or elbow to do the same. Based on my own history I don't see you doing Dave Fitzgerald-style overheads until a surgical repair is done, if ever. Hope this is more ENcouraging than DIScouraging. Good luck, don't give up on flying!

[Brad LaPointe]

My shoulder was in pretty bad shape for a while. Finally after not being able to fly anywhere but directly in front of myself with my arm kinked at about 45deg. I sought out an orthopaedic doctor.

After X-rays and a MRI he repaired the rotator cuff. After the phisio my shoulder has been much better. My surgery was in November 2015 , by last May it was the first time in years that flying was a pleasure. This year I'm going to try some combat again .

The sooner you get it looked at the sooner you will find out if you can get relief. Not everyone has the same problem so my experience may not be the same. In some cases putting it off may make it worse , I was lucky that the tear could be repaired.

Brad LaPointe
MAAC 5418

[Steve White]

I'm new to posting here, but have spent a lot of time reading and learning. I come from a motocross background and have had more than a few injuries and seen even more, so I thought I'd answer this. Below is a link to a shoulder support I've seen used. The one in the middle of the page or a variation of it by another company is the one I've seen the most. I've seen guys who couldn't ride, let alone race, put one of these on and start riding again. Racing really jams your shoulders too. The one farther down the page is heavier duty and has a strap that's adjustable to support the shoulder even more. They are both expensive, but they would probably work. Also, family doctors are really not good when it comes to injuries, trust me, I know from personal experience. Try to get a sports doctor, they have seen it all.

Also try a castor oil pack, they really work. You can do searches on the net and find a lot of info on it. It stimulates the circulation where you put it, which speeds up healing. Dr. Oz even recommends it.

Steve


https://www.betterbraces.com/motocross

[Tim Wescott]

Thanks to all so far.

Steve, that's a good suggestion.  Do you think I should get a recommendation for a sports doctor, or go straight to an orthopedist?  Also, I'm sure you haven't seen many, but do you have a good read for how one is going to react to someone who's chosen sport is a totally obscure nerd activity*?

I looked on that web site, and, oddly enough, they didn't include "control line stunt" in their list of sports -- this is an omission that they really ought to rectify!

* Hi Mark

[Motorman]

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[Al Rabe]

For what its worth, I don't have an operating right rotator cuff since 2010 and find no difficulty flying my Critical Mass.  Of course, The Critical Mass weighs 80 ounces, is powered by a Saito 91 and requires good shoes for traction and two hands on the handle between maneuvers.  Its fine everywhere except the reverse wingover and that is OK too if a bit light.

Al

[Tim Wescott]

For what its worth, I don't have an operating right rotator cuff since 2010 and find no difficulty flying my Critical Mass.  Of course, The Critical Mass weighs 80 ounces, is powered by a Saito 91 and requires good shoes for traction and two hands on the handle between maneuvers.  Its fine everywhere except the reverse wingover and that is OK too if a bit light.

Yes, but are you right-handed?

I dunno what it is, but the last time I tried to stunt it was a half-A plane; three loops and my shoulder was on fire for two or three days.

[Steve White]

Tim

Sports doctors are orthopedics and usually have a neurosurgeon in their office too. They are just more experienced with all kinds of odd injuries. I'll give a perfect example. My son one time really got off bad on a big double jump. I had him checked out at a local hospital and they said to follow up with an orthopedic, he hit really hard on his back. So I called a local one and he checked him out and said he had broken his scapula. That really didn't make sense, he should have been in much more pain than he was. I called a Dr. Ritchie in St. Louis and told his secretary what happened. She talked to him and got back on the phone and said he was impressed, he had never seen a broken scapula without broken ribs. He said to make an appointment, we got in fast. He x-rayed him and said nothing was broken, it was a growth joint we were looking at. He was surprised the other doctor was that far off. That doctor was talking about operating and fusing it together. He would have screwed my son up big time. He was just bruised up.

They had signed jerseys hanging on all the walls, they were very good. His partner fixed a torn tendon in my right elbow that my family doctor kept telling me all I needed was therapy. Even though I could barely lift my arm! That went on for months.

As far as a nerdy sport, whoever you find, will probably find it interesting. You'd be surprised how many nerds are in all sports, LOL. I was considered one! Good luck.

Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

Fred is right.  Seek out a good orthopedic surgeon and get a complete workup for what's going on in the shoulder.  If you don't like what he says get another opinion.

Shoulder surgery and shoulder prosthesis is the trickiest of all the orthopedics so be sure you get a good guy that specializes in shoulders and not some guy that operates on hips one day and occasionally shoulders...Trust me it's a different animal.  A Sports medicine Guy who specializes in shoulders would be the best bet but they are pretty few and far between and would likely involve travel to find one and get the surgery!

I used to be a Professional Motorcycle racer (National level Flat Track) and have broken just about everything that can come to mind at one point or another.  A good guy can do the surgery and get you well quickly!  A hack can ruin it forever!  So make your choices carefully.  If it's a serious injury that includes a loose separation, exercise will not fix it and will likely make it worse!  My point, simply put is don't mess around with it...do some checking and research and if you have to get a referral from your local "Family Doctor" for insurance purpose tell him you only want the best and convince him it's very important to you that you're able to fly CL model airplanes.  Important not only to your physical health but mental health also.  That's the route to take!  You want a big strong guy with grey hair that's done hundreds of these things with success!  Trust me on this!  They are out there.  Talking to a neurosurgeon also is not a bad idea because he might give advise on who to have do the orthopedic surgery.  Also the sooner the better especially if it's a rotator cuff or separation problem.  I'm sure you're aware that the shoulder joint is a weird deal and doesn't function like the other joints...if it's bad it usually only gets worse with time!!!

I wish you the best with it and hope you can get it taken care of soon!

Randy Cuberly
PS:  The worst part of it is the physical therapy afterwards!!  It's guaranteed to make a grown man cry!   

[Arlan McKee]

Five years ago my right shoulder began having intense, fire like pain when raising my arm to fly, shoot a pistol, use a drill, or even to push open swinging doors. That pain was arthritis in my ac joint. If your doctor saw something of note on an x-ray it was likely arthritis.
Cortizone shots and PT were worthless. After an MRI I had what is called a clavicle resection.
They go in with an arthroscope and cut  about 1/4 inch off the end of the clavicle and clean out the arthritis around the ac joint. Scar tissue forms over the bone and acts as a new cartilage. I think it was 4 plus-shaped incisions that looked like they were made with a phillips head. I could slowly rotate through 360 degrees just 7 days after surgery. At 14 days I was rowing 45 lbs during PT. Two months after surgery I was using an 8 pound nail gun and framing out a building.
My advice is try not to wait too long to see a good ortho guy.
The recovery time for many surgeries where nothing is torn is minimal.
I was 42 when I had the surgery. I am going through all the steps to get the left shoulder done this year.
My surgeries have been out of necessity. I make a living with my hands which it seems are held up by my shoulders.

Arlan

[RknRusty]

... do you have a good read for how one is going to react to someone who's chosen sport is a totally obscure nerd activity*?

Tim, I'm a veteran shoulder, elbow, hand and neck patient. My orth doc and his NP are fascinated with my flying and building needs and all aspects of the hobby. They always want to see any videos I might happen to have on my phone or the 'Tube. They have a huge amount of respect for the pain I've been willing to endure or die trying to keep doing this. And they bend over backwards to figure out ways for me to be able to perform motions that would be forbidden for any other patient. They know this is what keeps me alive after decades of arthritis and tendonitis exacerbated by 31 years of dialysis treatments 3 times a week. It can be done.
Rusty

[Tim Wescott]

Randy: don't underestimate those wiry 5-foot tall women with steel-gray hair.  It's really the gray hair that does it.  My doc and I have a pretty good understanding on things like this.  She'll send me to someone good.  The one that looked at my knee (and gave me excellent advise that has held for decades) was a sports doctor.

Arian: Yup.  I work with my brain, but the information still needs to dribble off my fingertips and into a computer.  For a while the pain was so bad I couldn't even do that comfortably.  I'm not sure that I wouldn't be in better shape if were working a stand-up job, but I can do harder and weirder math than most other engineers, and I can teach it, and that keeps food on the table (my nightmare is to get hit on the head and lose that).

Rusty: Thanks.  It's good to know there's at least one out there.  Actually my doc and the various other people I've been to already on this catch on pretty quickly, and are at least interested to the point of understanding that's how the shoulder has to move.

[C.T. Schaefer]

Learn to fly with the other arm?

[Doug Moisuk]

If you end up needing a psychotherapist make it a sports psychologist. Find one who has a good reputation and has worked with some notable athletes.

I wonder how Windy's shoulder is doing?

And you could move to Canada eh.  It's all free. Sorry couldn't resist. Good luck.

Cheers

[RknRusty]

If you end up needing a psychotherapist make it a sports psychologist. Find one who has a good reputation and has worked with some notable athletes.

I wonder how Windy's shoulder is doing?

Yeah, like young John Smoltz back when the Braves were aspiring champions. His shrink sat behind home plate wearing a bright red shirt while John made split-finger fastballs roll off the table 2 feet in front of the plate. You could have him stand behind the judges with a big red placard on a pole... just kidding... maybe.

Did aeromodeling drive Windy nuts?

I try to believe pain is how you can tell you're still alive.

I hope humor is okay in a painful thread.

[skyshark58]

Fly Navy Carrier ! No overhead maneuvers required.At least on purpose. :-)   Mike

[Randy Cuberly]

Tim,

I don't think you'll find very many small women that are orthopedic surgeons.  It tends to be a very physical thing to do and actually requires strength in their hands and arms.
In 1975 I hit a guard rail at approximately 100 mph on a motorcycle mile flat track.  My left arm was broken in three places one in the shoulder joint which was torn apart, one at the elbow joint and the other just above the wrist.  No I'm not left handed but you can't race a motorcycle with one arm and that's the way I made my living!

The surgeon in California recommended amputating the arm!

My wife (at that time) mortgaged our house, and had me flown to a sports medicine hospital in New York where they did the surgery and spliced ligaments and screwed bones back together with steel plates etc. etc. etc.  The surgeons name was John Wieskoph (long dead now) but he had developed certain techniques for shoulder repair that were considered radical at the time.  I used to have a film of the surgery and believe me Dr. Wieskoph was 6ft 6in tall and probably weighed in at about 260 lbs.  He strained at times to set and place bones as needed.  No small woman would have had the hand and arm strength to do what he did.

Body and arm cast for 5 weeks.  Physical therapy for three weeks (a lot of screaming there).  Four weeks later I was racing again!

All in getting the right guy to do it!

Randy Cuberly

[Skip Chernoff]

See a shoulder specialist and get it fixed...just my 2 cents

[Tim Wescott]

Learn to fly with the other arm?

I hope that's an excellent idea, because that was last year's plan and I'd hate to think that my ideas aren't really good!  There were two problems: (A), it'll take a good long while -- I can't even do a reverse-wingover left-handed, and (B), it became pretty obvious that if I tried, I'd just have two bad shoulders instead of one.

[Tim Wescott]

I don't think you'll find very many small women that are orthopedic surgeons.

They need these, then -- only all in stainless steel, and for about 50 times the price (that's x2 or x3 to make it sterilizable, with the rest evenly balanced between getting it approved by the FDA and getting product liability insurance).

Edit:  Oops, I forgot the link to the equipment!!  It's just what the smallish orthopedic surgeon needs in the operating room -- just don't show it to the patient.

[Tim Wescott]

Thank you all for your suggestions for doctors -- I will keep that in mind.

However, I have some other health concerns that I need to address before the shoulder.  Once I get my guts straightened out* then -- assuming something else doesn't go awry with my body -- I'll be addressing the shoulder.

So comments about my scheme to get flying in the mean time would be appreciated!!

* Not literally -- I don't know if there are many operating theaters with a 30 foot long sterile hallway attached, and getting things put back in must be worse than re-packing a model airplane kit.

[Mike Bufkin]

Whatever you decide,my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Mike

[Randy Powell]

As you know, I have a torn rotator cuff. Luckily, it's not my flying arm. Doc told me to leave it alone and do the PT. I did and it still hurts occasionally but overall, is OK.

I'd go with the ortho consult if I were you.

[Mike Scholtes]

Sticking with practical non-medical stopgaps, the guys that carry flags in parades and marching bands have a belt with a socket in the front for the end of the flag staff. Skipping over the ribald images that follow from that mental image, it should be doable to rig a brace from the belt's socket to a U-shaped support for the wrist, that could be longer or shorter depending on how high above your waist you are able to tolerate the arm being raised. Not ideal but if it works, even halfway, it is better than fiery pain in the shoulder. Overhead 8s may have to be deleted from the routine or just accept you will be flying 15-point OH8s for a while.

To Randy C: Are you from the Dick Mann - Gary Nixon - Eddie Mulder - Mert Lawill - Kenny Roberts era? Those guys were my heroes and I made it to the mile and half-mile tracks at Sacramento and San Jose whenever I could. I did "sportsman scrambles" in the 60s but never the long tracks. Saw some horrific get-offs at 100 plus. Maybe you were one of them!

[Randy Cuberly]

Sticking with practical non-medical stopgaps, the guys that carry flags in parades and marching bands have a belt with a socket in the front for the end of the flag staff. Skipping over the ribald images that follow from that mental image, it should be doable to rig a brace from the belt's socket to a U-shaped support for the wrist, that could be longer or shorter depending on how high above your waist you are able to tolerate the arm being raised. Not ideal but if it works, even halfway, it is better than fiery pain in the shoulder. Overhead 8s may have to be deleted from the routine or just accept you will be flying 15-point OH8s for a while.

To Randy C: Are you from the Dick Mann - Gary Nixon - Eddie Mulder - Mert Lawill - Kenny Roberts era? Those guys were my heroes and I made it to the mile and half-mile tracks at Sacramento and San Jose whenever I could. I did "sportsman scrambles" in the 60s but never the long tracks. Saw some horrific get-offs at 100 plus. Maybe you were one of them!

Yes...San Jose is where I broke my shoulder.  Dick Mann was a close friend and a hell of a guy.  He and Joe Bolger from Mass helped me build my first Expert BSA Tracker.  Rode mostly Triumphs and Yamaha's after that.  The BSA Engines in that era were probably best they had a perfect power curve for loamy tracks but the Triumphs could produce more power.   Good BSA parts were getting scarce and very expensive! Later the OW-01 Yamaha was the power king but definitely harder to ride.  Mostly Trackmaster Frames.  I used Yamaha singles in Mann frames for short track which is what I did best and made real money at.  Required a lot of travel though.  Mostly up and down the east coast.  I won the short track at Sturgis in71...Big purse!  Never did very well at Mile tracks too much "Pucker factor" going into a corner at 130+.  Didn't care what things cost then because other people were paying the bills.  Some great friend and memories.  I raced Motocross also but was too old to be very serious at that time.  Did make some money in the first Trans AMA but it was mostly a matter of attrition.  16 races in about 18 weeks all across the country with two 45 minute motos.  By the time it finished everyone was beat up an injured to some extent or another.  I soaked a cast off my right hand and wired the throttle open and used a kill switch to get three laps in the first moto of the last race in Orlando (I think) Florida just to get starting points that moved me up two places over all and added about $6000.to my overall winnings.  Paltry stuff by today's standards, but America was playing catch up against the Europeans in those days. 

Great memories.  About all us old guys have these days I suppose!  I still ride a little but "Low and Slow" no double or triple jumps in my reperotoire anymore.

Randy Cuberly
PS:  Didn't mean to hijack this thread but it seemed to reaching an end!

race

[C.T. Schaefer]

Whoa! Big hijack here! Thanks Randy! I am old enough to have seen Dick and the rest starting in 1967. As a BSA nut it was a big thrill. Over the years I have met him a few times, as a fan. I got into the competition game a bit late in life but have been racing a pair of A-65's for 10 years. We race at LSR venues at Willmington, Ohio and Loring AFB, Maine. Fun and a nice bunch of guys. I gave up the reins a few years ago and now my younger cohort does all of the piloting. I am known as the 'team owner'. That means I cough up all the money. The BSA vs Triumph thing is still 'on'. We are currently top dogs but I can always feel Turnip breath over my shoulder!  Cheers, TS

[Tim Wescott]

PS:  Didn't mean to hijack this thread but it seemed to reaching an end!

I'm enjoying it.

[Randy Cuberly]

I'm enjoying it.

Best of luck to you Tim.  I hope you get a happy solution to your shoulder problem.  Hope we can meet one day at a contest!

Randy Cuberly

[peabody]

I saw Windy fly one of his planes for a whole flight left handed....(he's a righty).....did some loops and stuff....
I completely forget WHY he did.....

[Randy Cuberly]

I saw Windy fly one of his planes for a whole flight left handed....(he's a righty).....did some loops and stuff....
I completely forget WHY he did.....

I've flown a couple of patterns left handed just for bragging rights!  They weren't comfortable or pretty!  I've seen several other right handed  stunt fliers fly patterns left handed just for grins.  In fact Bob Whitely (I think) can fly a pretty decent pattern with either hand!
My guess is that most any experienced "Expert" level flier can or could do it!  I think Tim could, if necessary, learn to fly left handed and do it pretty well if determined to do it!
Get your Ringmaster or Flite Streak out and try it if you haven't it's a bit of a challenge at first but a little "Shadow Flying" in advance pays good dividends!

If you really want a challenge fly a clockwise rigged stunter!  Not you guys that already fly the "wrong way".

Randy Cuberly

[Tim Wescott]

My guess is that most any experienced "Expert" level flier can or could do it!  I think Tim could, if necessary, learn to fly left handed and do it pretty well if determined to do it!

I fly expert, and it became obvious to me after post-holing my trainer airplane for the second time that (A), yes, I could learn, but (B), it'll take a bit.

[Mike Scholtes]

Flying my 64-oz Legacy today I was thinking, "Okay, how would I do this if my shoulder was really hurting?" and trying to be aware of where the pulling and lifting forces were coming from (or going to, vector-wise). I concluded the pull on the handle from the model was doing most of the work of keeping my arm up, at least when the model is not overhead like in the RWO and OH8. So Tim, can you tolerate having the right arm raised to horizontal (straight out from shoulder parallel to ground) if raised there by an external force? Or does just being in that position hurt too much? Seems like this would be determinative as to whether a brace of some kind would actually work. Lord knows there are enough engineers on this forum to figure out something that should get one of our tribe back in the air.

Back to motorcycles (you knew that was coming) here in the Bay Area we had a bunch of top AMA pros that I would run into in bike shops and at the track. In addition to the guys mentioned above we had Mark Brelsford, Gene Romero, Jim Rice and others. Mert Lawwill I believe was involved in early suspension-equipped mountain bikes. And I am still steamed over the rule that allowed HD to run 750cc flathead trackers against 500cc OHV machines. Some things just aren't right.

[Steve Helmick]

Is there a video of watching Brett flying? I recall him saying that he doesn't wave his arm around like most of us. That might help? I'd love to see it, anyway. YouTube?

I had some pain in my left shoulder, which I seem to have fairly well fixed by sleeping on my right side, with a pillow holding my arm up so the shoulder was unstressed. But I fly right-handed.

When I first started flying .51 > .60 sized stunters, I found my right shoulder would hurt after a typical Saturday. By bending my elbow, I took the loads with muscles, instead of tendons. Helped a bunch.
  Steve

Found this. Not as short-armed as I'd expected.

[Tim Wescott]

Thanks for the video, Steve.  It's hard to see, but I think he's holding his arm down in a position that would be safe for me.  I might need a brace to remind me, though.  Hmm.

Still need to see the doc, when that problem pops up in the priority queue.

[Steve Helmick]

Hook a bungee cord from a belt loop on the right side of your jeans to your elbow? Maybe an elbow brace would be a good attach point at the other end. Might even be a good therapy implement.  Steve

[Steve Thornton]

Tim I had some rotator cuff repair done.  I had a bone spur that was eroding my cuff and I couldn't reach my back pocket for my wallet or scratch my ear.  very painful.  6 weeks after surgery I had more flexibility and upper body strength than I had in 40 years, thanks to a great Physical Therapist who laughingly said before each session, "If you ain't screamin' like a little girl we ain't doin' no good."  The painless mobility can be achieved but diagnosis is essential to the remedy and a GOOD PT are essential to the recovery.  My first diagnosis came from my GP, who said that I had just strained my shoulder and sent me to PT.  The 23 year-old gal was disinterested in my symptoms and did me much damage...once.  I went to my ortho Dr and he was the best move I could have made.  I've had 4 hand surgeries by his partner "the hand specialist," and these folks are magicians.  I can play guitar again better than ever.  Hope you have a speedy recovery!
Steve 

[Steve Thompson]

How about a "Flying Intermediate Hard Point Link".  "T" handle would take load off of bad arm.   Hold it like the handles on an M2.  Make it from carbon fiber.  Consider locations of pivot. 

[Brent Williams]

How about a shoulder stabilizer brace?  It would limit your range of motion and would force you to keep your arm in a manner similar to how Brett flies.

Might be a good solution to try before surgery.

http://www.breg.com/products/shoulder-bracing/shoulder-stabilizer

[John Rist]

This is absolute heresy and I am a tarter for suggesting it but you could fly RC         

[JoeJust]

Tim, perhaps you might try just leaving out the overhead maneuvers. Forget trying to find the golden chalice and just have some fun!
Joe

[Ken Burdick]

Now yer talkin.......

[Motorman]

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[Tim Wescott]

Tim, perhaps you might try just leaving out the overhead maneuvers. Forget trying to find the golden chalice and just have some fun!
Joe

At this point if I just follow a plane through a loop it messes me up.

But -- point taken, and thanks for the suggestion.

[Bruce Shipp]

Tim,  I injured my shoulder in 2013 in a road bicycle accident.  It improved over a month to a point but then never got any better.  I was never pain free.  After a year of PT and shots there was little improvement.  I'd feel great for about a day after a PT session.  Then one day back at work and the pain was right back to xpre- PT session level. After 10 months I finally saw an ortho surgeon.  I had no rotator cuff damage but he did clean things up, trimmed the end of my collar bone and removed a lot of arthritis.  I was back on my bike four weeks after surgery. I was pain free after 2 months and have remained so ever since.

I did not realize how much pain I was in until after it was gone.  Control line flying discomfort aside, I encourage you to look into the surgery option to improve your overall quality of life.  I spent a good 6-9 months of feeling miserable all day and sleeping terribly in a vain attempt to avoid surgery.

Good luck and hope you feel better soon.

[Randy Cuberly]

Tim,  I injured my shoulder in 2013 in a road bicycle accident.  It improved over a month to a point but then never got any better.  I was never pain free.  After a year of PT and shots there was little improvement.  I'd feel great for about a day after a PT session.  Then one day back at work and the pain was right back to xpre- PT session level. After 10 months I finally saw an ortho surgeon.  I had no rotator cuff damage but he did clean things up, trimmed the end of my collar bone and removed a lot of arthritis.  I was back on my bike four weeks after surgery. I was pain free after 2 months and have remained so ever since.

I did not realize how much pain I was in until after it was gone.  Control line flying discomfort aside, I encourage you to look into the surgery option to improve your overall quality of life.  I spent a good 6-9 months of feeling miserable all day and sleeping terribly in a vain attempt to avoid surgery.

Good luck and hope you feel better soon.

Hey Bruce...where have you been all these years!  Long time no see or hear!

Hope you and yours are well and happy.  Good to hear from you again!

Randy Cuberly