This Remote Control looks like Good Value .

[Air Ministry .]

 

[david beazley]

Don't worry, that'll buff out.

[john e. holliday]

RC pilots with more money than brains/common sense.  I can see equipment failure once in a while, but those guys that don't know how to hold the sticks get me.  Auit teaching a few students because they wouldn't listen.

[John Rist]

I wouldn't badmouth RC crashes to hard.  I have seen MANY control line crashes.  With any model if you can't afford to crash it don't fly it. 

[Phil Krankowski]

The number of mid-air collisions and gear failures was surprising.

Phil

[FLOYD CARTER]

Suspicion confirmed!  Many R/C ers haven't a clue about flight dynamics.  Stalls are commonplace.

BUY AN ARF.  ASSEMBLE FLY AND CRASH ALL ON THE SAME DAY!


Floyd

[Sean McEntee]

I wouldn't badmouth RC crashes to hard.  I have seen MANY control line crashes.  With any model if you can't afford to crash it don't fly it. 

            Equipment failures and mid-air collisions...I get it, murphy's law

          Majority of these guy's are making rookie mistakes.  A bunch of them torque-rolled in on takeoff...flying big fancy warbirds.  I like to think that they just bought them all RTF and it was their first RC flight ever.  That would at least explain it.  If not...bonehead.

         That guy trying to limbo the flying wing through the tent looked like he was having fun, even when he hit himself.

[John Rist]

           Equipment failures and mid-air collisions...I get it, murphy's law

          Majority of these guy's are making rookie mistakes.  A bunch of them torque-rolled in on takeoff...flying big fancy warbirds.  I like to think that they just bought them all RTF and it was their first RC flight ever.  That would at least explain it.  If not...bonehead.

        

Having flown some RC I suspect it's not torque-roll on take off but a setup problem.  A common mistake is to have the ailerons reversed.  Airplane starts a roll on takeoff and pilot input to correct the problem does the rest. Ask me how I know!!!   

[Jim Kraft]

Just my opinion, but it looks to me that most of these crashes are caused by flying planes that are way beyond the ability of the pilot. Having flown R/C pattern for 25 years and some scale, I can see a lot of things going on where it looks like the pilot barely has control of the plane. But it is hard to say for sure. It could also be trimming problems like tail heavy conditions that can make high performance planes almost impossible to fly. Even going from pattern planes to scale is quite a jump. Most pattern planes are relatively easy to fly but do fly fairly fast. A lot has changed since I quit flying R/C pattern in 94.

[Frank Imbriaco]

 Jim:
As you know and will likely agree, Pattern  ships have no equal among R/C aircraft.  Absolute joy to fly. I currently fly a 2M Brio and a 2M Griffin ; both electric. Occasionally compete. I try hard to split time between RC and UC. Hope to never have to give up one for the other.

There are still some R/C flyers  left who build very well and understand all facets of the hobby.  They're getting up in years and  most have roots in controline and/or free flight.

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

And nobody here has taken one of their older planes up in a group fly or played combat with an old Buster?  I saw several high dollar engine flame outs and folks trying to make that dreadfull downwind turn when they just didn't have the energy.  A couple of reversed ailerons (the first one went slow motion so you could SEE the ailerons going in the wrong way)

What bothers me is when I started flying control line it was after a hiatus from RC flying.  I was kinda on the cheep side as I was just starting a family and money was kinda tight.  I also had a kickass group of people to play with in the Topeka Control Line Association.  But I also was told by many folks in different places "Oh those RC guys they just hold their noses and all ask "When you gonna graduate to RC"".  Later I moved to KC and although there are people to fly with we all worked different shifts, were all in different parts of the city and mostly, just to get together it was easier and quicker to drive to Topeka.  Well, tired of flying alone I started flying RC again.  Wouldn't you know it, soon as they found out I flew Control line they,,,,, asked if I could fine tune their engine.  Reminisced about when they were trying to fly it but couldn't stop getting dizzy.  Just a whole bunch of positive stuff.  I only ever ran into one guy that didn't like that I flew control line and he didn't like that anybody flew anything.  One of those old club rule makers that would show up on sunday, maybe bring an airplane out but not fly it and then just gripe about everyone at the field.

In short, the only group I've EVER heard making fun of the other was a bunch of CL snobs.  Really is a pity too cuzz if you ever went out and watched, 95% of the time the RC guys are just flying in circles too.  Granted, I've never been and more then likely will never be overly good at Pattern, OTS, Scale, Carrier, 3D, Multi Rotors, FF, Combat, Gliders, Rockets, Frisbees, Kites, Sticks and the occasional skipping of stones across the water.  But I've played with them all and thoroughly enjoyed the lot.  Everyone in the videos shown, a couple might have to wait a bit, would laugh at the "That'll rub out" remark.  But saying obnoxious things like "Many R/C ers haven't a clue about flight dynamics."  is just arrogance and shows that the only chips on shoulders are ours.  

Just always irritated me that when it came to derisiveness, it was coming from my home base and not from the folks that I was told were "the enemy".  Maybe somewhere deep in the past a couple folks who had started flying RC primarily were missing their buddies and asked when they were going to come play with them and it was just taken the wrong way, I don't know.  But I've never been disrespected because I fly CL.  If anything I've gotten undeserved admiration.  And a restraining order, but we won't talk about that.  

I don't think I'm legally allowed to.

[badbill]

RC pilots with more money than brains/common sense.  I can see equipment failure once in a while, but those guys that don't know how to hold the sticks get me.  Auit teaching a few students because they wouldn't listen.

Hey Doc. What do you mean, don't know how to hold the sticks?

[John Rist]

And nobody here has taken one of their older planes up in a group fly or played combat with an old Buster?  I saw several high dollar engine flame outs and folks trying to make that dreadfull downwind turn when they just didn't have the energy.  A couple of reversed ailerons (the first one went slow motion so you could SEE the ailerons going in the wrong way)

What bothers me is when I started flying control line it was after a hiatus from RC flying.  I was kinda on the cheep side as I was just starting a family and money was kinda tight.  I also had a kickass group of people to play with in the Topeka Control Line Association.  But I also was told by many folks in different places "Oh those RC guys they just hold their noses and all ask "When you gonna graduate to RC"".  Later I moved to KC and although there are people to fly with we all worked different shifts, were all in different parts of the city and mostly, just to get together it was easier and quicker to drive to Topeka.  Well, tired of flying alone I started flying RC again.  Wouldn't you know it, soon as they found out I flew Control line they,,,,, asked if I could fine tune their engine.  Reminisced about when they were trying to fly it but couldn't stop getting dizzy.  Just a whole bunch of positive stuff.  I only ever ran into one guy that didn't like that I flew control line and he didn't like that anybody flew anything.  One of those old club rule makers that would show up on sunday, maybe bring an airplane out but not fly it and then just gripe about everyone at the field.

In short, the only group I've EVER heard making fun of the other was a bunch of CL snobs.  Really is a pity too cuzz if you ever went out and watched, 95% of the time the RC guys are just flying in circles too.  Granted, I've never been and more then likely will never be overly good at Pattern, OTS, Scale, Carrier, 3D, Multi Rotors, FF, Combat, Gliders, Rockets, Frisbees, Kites, Sticks and the occasional skipping of stones across the water.  But I've played with them all and thoroughly enjoyed the lot.  Everyone in the videos shown, a couple might have to wait a bit, would laugh at the "That'll rub out" remark.  But saying obnoxious things like "Many R/C ers haven't a clue about flight dynamics."  is just arrogance and shows that the only chips on shoulders are ours.  

Just always irritated me that when it came to derisiveness, it was coming from my home base and not from the folks that I was told were "the enemy".  Maybe somewhere deep in the past a couple folks who had started flying RC primarily were missing their buddies and asked when they were going to come play with them and it was just taken the wrong way, I don't know.  But I've never been disrespected because I fly CL.  If anything I've gotten undeserved admiration.  And a restraining order, but we won't talk about that.  

I don't think I'm legally allowed to.

A big AMEN!!   

[john e. holliday]

Hey Doc. What do you mean, don't know how to hold the sticks?

How many people actually hold the sticks when flying.  I have proved to students that if you grip the sticks with it between the index finger and thumb you have more control over how far to move them and the direction.   Oh I've used the thumb on the end of the sticks a few times once I learned to fly and was doing aerobatics.   But, everybody has their way of doing it.   Once my students soloed without any help,  I would only add advice when asked.  One old timer put a beautiful scale job in after many, many flights and couldn't figure out what went.  I then asked him to look at how he was holding the sticks.  He was over controlling using the old thumb method.

[badbill]

How many people actually hold the sticks when flying.  I have proved to students that if you grip the sticks with it between the index finger and thumb you have more control over how far to move them and the direction.   Oh I've used the thumb on the end of the sticks a few times once I learned to fly and was doing aerobatics.   But, everybody has their way of doing it.   Once my students soloed without any help,  I would only add advice when asked.  One old timer put a beautiful scale job in after many, many flights and couldn't figure out what went.  I then asked him to look at how he was holding the sticks.  He was over controlling using the old thumb method.

Wow, first time I've disagreed with you ever! Guess it had to happen. I have flown RC since the late 60's, and every time I tried the pinch method it took ALL the precision out of my flying, I felt like I was stirring a 55 gallon drum with a baseball bat. After having been in the business, I have known thousands of RC fliers, of which pinch vs thumbs ended up about 30% pinch, 70% thumbs. Many of the best fliers I have ever seen use thumbs. While I am not a pro, I am no slouch either and can fly helis, jets, scale or ANYTHING you throw in front of me competently... using thumbs only. Trying to pinch, IMO , just slows my reaction time. Kinda hurts to think you would quit teaching someone because their style is different, esp in the age of buddy boxes.

[john e. holliday]

Well you agree the pinch method does slow down the controls in a way.  I quit teaching students that would not fly according to the field rules.  You had to be able to fly the field pattern according to the wind.  The new field the club moved to made it worse.  But, I do use the thumbs when I'm flying a very maneuverable once I have it trimmed to my liking.
  But, as I said earlier some of the new RC'rs have more money than sense.

[badbill]

But, as I said earlier some of the new RC'rs have more money than sense.

Now that there is soooo true. My Father was only around for the inception of the ARF planes, but he said way back then that every RC beginner should have to build and repair their own plane. I guarantee that would make a big difference....

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

"but he said way back then that every RC beginner should have to build and repair their own plane. I guarantee that would make a big difference...."

Yes it did.  It cut down on the numbers dramatically.  Many now do not have hours to spend to build the plane. Oh they'd love to, they plan to when they retire but right now if I get an hour or two that I can work on airplanes its usually separated by several weeks.  When we started getting reliable, well made ARFs in the RC industry that with a little oversight by experienced club members we increased the number of RC pilots by 4 or 5 times.  Electrics have made training newbies pretty easy as well, you only need to charge a battery and plug it in.  They didn't get to experience castor like we did but oh well, times change.   
And times change again.  The pilots that fly arfs or pnf planes still drop because hitting the reboot  button on  your Video game is so much easier, can happen at 2 in the morning and for some reason most are scared of being outdoors.  They do love the idea of multi rotors and hence all the problems those have brought.  At least the learning curve on helicopters kept them away from those.

Brodaks sells many arfs, I've got a couple.  Nothing I love more then opening a kit and smelling the balsa but 15 years ago when I last worked at a hobby shop we could by the most popular kit around and watch it sit in the shop for months.  Or bring in an ARC or ARF and have it fly off the shelf. 


Oh, and after taking months to build their trainer most of the newbies could barely learn on something they knew that a simple screw up would have them back in the shop for weeks.  They threw trainers around almost with abandon and it made training easier.

[badbill]

Well Sir, we'll agree to disagree then. I am 59, and still work more than full time, then sell on the internet when I get home from work, in addition to keeping up the house, yard etc, by myself since I am now widowed.  Yet, I still build as I have my whole life, and still get plenty of projects done, just like my Father did before me. Ken Willard called it the "Purple Plan". If you just get one thing done a day, no matter how small, you'll finish the project. Dad raised 6 outstanding kids, and still built and flew the whole time. One thing that helped was family participation, it was an activity we ALL enjoyed. "Not enough time" is a cop out, in my opinion. If you have time to participate on forums, you have time to build.

[Jim Kraft]

I have to agree Frank. I started flying pattern in the late 60's in the Kwik Fli and Kaos era. I designed most of my planes back then. My last pattern plane which I still have is an MK Joker I built from a Kit and flew competition pattern with from 86 to 94 when I started flying control line again. I still fly a little R/C but mostly old timers with old spark ignition engines. Still have a lazy Ace Bipe and a few others that do not get flown much any more. Both R/C and control line have their good points and not so good points. I do enjoy flying both at one time or another. At 75 years old the reflexes are just not what they use to be and I just do not take competition as serious as I once did. My great love right now is flying anything with an old spark ignition engine be it control line or old timer R/C. Those things are just a hoot to run and fly.

[john e. holliday]

Well, I should admit my first ARF was the Jim Walker Fire Baby.  It did not last long.  I had it on 15 foot lines with a Space Bug on it.   Mean time I acquired the OK Cub .049A and built the Scientific Sport Racer for it.  Simple box sheet balsa fuse and solid fling surfaces.  Flying out of grass it had to be hand launched.  Lost count how many time the old Duco was used to keep it flying.  But in a way you could say the old Guillows Trainers and the later Rat Racer were almost ARF,  basically they were ready to assemble and dope them.   No Monokote back then. No electric starters.   And the only reason I don't use a squeeze bulb(4 ounce) is need to measure fuel on some planes.  Would love to do another Sport Racer up right,  but collectors drive the kits out of sight and the plans I got are not good to build from.  Remember mfg's didn't do full size plans.