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Author Topic: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited  (Read 5078 times)

Offline Skip Chernoff

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SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« on: January 06, 2017, 07:03:02 PM »
I noticed that some time ago there was a thread  where one of our forum mates was asking which plane to build the SV11 or the Strega? At the time many who responded said the SV11 was the better choice.... What is it about the SV11 that makes it a better choice? BTW I'm finishing a Strega at present. Thanks,PhillySkip

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 08:09:13 PM »
I noticed that some time ago there was a thread  where one of our forum mates was asking which plane to build the SV11 or the Strega? At the time many who responded said the SV11 was the better choice.... What is it about the SV11 that makes it a better choice? BTW I'm finishing a Strega at present. Thanks,PhillySkip


Just about everything!  The wing, the fuselage, the size, and the general configuration of the SV11 fits modern stunt requirements far better than the Oversize sharp pointed leading edge wing, wimpy flaps, and heavy general construction of the Strega.  Fly one of each and you will instantly see the better response and general ease of flying the SV11.
In my opinion it's like the difference between driving a Ferrari and a Mac Truck!

Sorry but that's my opinion based on flying a couple of each that were all claimed by their owners to be "Good Fliers".  Go figure.

I'm sure other opinions will vary but I've never been accused of being afraid to speak my mind!  <= <=

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 08:19:23 PM »
Randy ,Thanks for your honest opinion. This Strega is my 1st "Big Ship" (except for a Shark 45 I built in the early 1970's) I've viewed all of the "Windy Tapes" and have made many modifications. Joe Adamusko is guiding me as well thru the project. Hopefully it will be a good flier,but if not, I've got a number of 40 and 46 size planes to fall back on for the upcoming contest season. Thanks Again....PhillySkip

Offline Motorman

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2017, 08:34:48 PM »
blank
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 04:38:22 PM by Motorman »

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2017, 09:11:05 PM »
Skip, just build your Strega and make it the best it can be and don't listen too much what people say on the internet.


MM

Hmmmmmm....Not even if they've been doing this since before you were born? 

Phhhttttttt!

Randy C.
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 09:45:55 PM »
It has been my experience telling people that I acquired a Strega and notice people's negative remarks regarding the plane.  Well I wasn't about to return it for a refund.  I thought it might be a east coast vs west coast kind of thing.   So I assemble it and I have only about ten trim flights on and I am very excited about it.  I don't know if those who flew their Strega didn't I have a big block in it like my Stalker 81 RE but with this combo it is a nice flying plane so far.  Windy Urtnowski said to put the biggest motor you can in it and it will fly better.  I haven't flown a SV-11 but I have a Vector 40 which is smaller in size.  I like my Vector and it is a good flying plane but my preference at the moment is my Strega.  Someone stated that SV meant Stunt Vector.  It all comes down to a pair of shoes, some shoes are not a good fit for everybody.  I myself am probably stronger then most CLPA pilots being only 5'5 and at 225 lbs most people ask me if I ever played football on Sundays(NFL)?  so I am very comfortable with a big plane and big engine.

Charles Carter
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:04:37 AM by Charles Carter »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 11:39:47 PM »
For the most part, the design of the airplane is far less important than the accuracy of the construction and alignment, the effectiveness of the engine and prop, and the state of trim of the airplane. Even a slight trim defect can completely wash out any design differences, same with the engine and engine setup. So, ultimately, the results will be determined by how well you adjust it. Search through the archives, and you will see example after example where a tiny trim adjustment took and airplane from a dog to a hero.

   Having said all that, there's no doubt that the SV-11 is a much better design. The Strega goes back to the Patternmaster, with some changes. The Patternmaster can certainly be made to fly well but it was a function of a very brief period of time, and some rather extreme design concepts and a brute-force approach to stunt, create a "immovable object" (i.e. a super-stable system (for the day)), then create some overwhelming forces to make it turn.  It was, ultimately, a dead-end approach but they tried every variant and the Patternmaster was the ultimate result.   

     The SV-11 is a conventional design that has evolved over many iterations with slight changes to accommodate observed shortcomings. There are a few things I would do differently (and do) but it has an enviable contest record and flies well for many different people. It's not extreme, it can be trimmed using modern trim techniques, doesn't require extreme power solutions, and doesn't take two hands to corner.

    The SV-11 is a carving knife, the Patternmaster and derivatives like the Strega are broadaxes.

      Brett

Offline jose modesto

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2017, 03:21:22 AM »
The Straga as published in FM and flown by windy has very little in common with the Brodack kit.
Windy model was smaller and at 62 oz was a very capable model as seen by its high Nats placing.
Big Jim's pattermaster was designed in 1977 68.5oz  nothing like the Brodack designed Straga.
Windy placed in the top 5 at the Nat's with patternmaster derivative models 4 times.

Yes Big Jim designed a plane that was balanced at 15% of cord with out flaps. Very nose heavy compared to the pipe models
As Brett stated.the models was very stable,with very fast controls. The models could corner with the best models of its time.BUT it required a strong modeler to achieve this level of flying. ( I have built 18 PM)
I have also built Many SV (one of my favorite wings) and flown at the Nat's 2004
In 1996 the PM wins the Nats as flown by the great Bob Baron. That's an 19 year span from the first big PM to its championship.
Which Brodack kit is better the SV-11 as the Straga does not resemble windy' Straga as published in FM
Jose Modesto

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2017, 05:54:30 AM »
Seems like I might have opened up a can of worms here ,huh? I really appreciate everyone chiming in as it makes for interesting reading.
To Charles I laughed at your East Coast vs West Coast comment.... it's like Biggie vs Tupoc...lol
To Motorman ....of course I'm going to finish my plane,trim it out and see what I've got. I enjoy going on this forum and learning about competitive stunt flying from some of the most knowledgable fliers in the world. I can't ignore their thoughts. I asked a question and I got some opinions. I love it!

My job right now is to finish building my Strega as straight and as light as I can. She's coming out nicely. Maybe I'll like flying this big bird and maybe not, time will tell. Who knows,maybe I'll try the SV 11 next.....PhillySkip

Online Perry Rose

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 06:46:56 AM »
I built the Strega kit to look like an A-36. I used sheet instead of carving the many blocks and a D.S. 61 R.E. It weighs almost 67 ounces. I won an ARF Strega in a raffle and it weighs 73 ounces with an Aviastar 60.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 07:10:53 AM »
I've found ( and everyone's mileage may vary ) that on Strega-ish ships that sealing the control surfaces will make a big difference in control forces and hence the way you'll perceive how it handles. It might not actually turn any better but it will be easier to fly.

I like to fly ships with a pretty rearward CG compared to most and ( again this works for me and you may do it completely different ) I'll start with the hinges untaped and then add about 6" at a time from the fuse outward until I get the best balance of easy turning forces along with the ability to groove on the level with the CG as far back as I like.

Once it's all good it seems to work. Running the CG back reduces the drag in the corners. (It also lowers the stall speed but that's generally not an issue in CLPA.) It works for me but someone else might say the plane flops around like a fish on the deck. It's all whatever works for you.

As far as designs:  Meh, fly what makes you happy. A Ford Focus RS and Mustang GT will get around Watkins Glen in about the same time but they do it in completely different ways. Experience will tell you what you like.

I'd really hate to see CLPA become a "spec series" where everyone flies the same thing. I remember as a kid when this guy showed up at the NATs with a scale Mustang that defied all of the common wisdom of stunt, and that turned out pretty good if I remember.

All of the above is in my humble opinion and if your's is different I'll defend your right to express it.

Chuck
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 10:20:52 AM »
Skip,  finish the plane and trim it out.  Then tell us what you think of it.   Later after you build the SV-11 and trim it you give your summary on it.  Everybody has a different way of doing things and that is what makes this hobby so much fun at times.  Then again it can be very frustrating.    H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 07:07:50 PM »
Seems like I might have opened up a can of worms here ,huh? I really appreciate everyone chiming in as it makes for interesting reading.
To Charles I laughed at your East Coast vs West Coast comment.... it's like Biggie vs Tupoc...lol
To Motorman ....of course I'm going to finish my plane,trim it out and see what I've got. I enjoy going on this forum and learning about competitive stunt flying from some of the most knowledgable fliers in the world. I can't ignore their thoughts. I asked a question and I got some opinions. I love it!

My job right now is to finish building my Strega as straight and as light as I can. She's coming out nicely. Maybe I'll like flying this big bird and maybe not, time will tell. Who knows,maybe I'll try the SV 11 next.....PhillySkip

Hi Skip,
I definitely was not attempting to discourage you from finishing your Strega with my posting.
I was trying to simply answer your question as to what the difference was in flying the two very different approaches to flying the pattern.  I have built both a Strega and a Cardinal (aerodynamically very similar to the Strega) in the past and flew both of them for quite some time.
They can, as expressed by Brett be flown very effectively if properly trimmed.  Albeit with a lot more effort physically!

I do however stand by my comments as to the differences between that approach and the much easier to fly well, SV11 or for that matter almost anything in Randy Smith's SV series.  I have also built and flown SV11's (two),  SV12 (one), and SV22 (one) as well as one of Randy's Tempest II's. 

I simply think they are a more reasonable approach to stunt! But, thank goodness there is variety in our sport and not cookie cutter mentality!
It would be a lot less interesting if all stunters looked and flew exactly the same!  Unless, of course they all flew like Paul Walkers!   H^^

Randy Cuberly

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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2017, 08:09:30 AM »
Still getting to know my Strega and am enjoying a big plane.
The SV-11 will be in my future someday.....hopefully.
Shug



Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2017, 09:32:43 AM »
Thanks Shug, it's 10 degrees out and snowing here. Was nice to have a little flying action.

Is it just me, or is that bad boy really moving? I was counting about 4 second lap times.

Chuck
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Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 09:59:15 AM »
Randy I'm not easily discouraged.... and was in the shop from 12 midnight to 5am mounting the wing and fitting the belly pan. The wings and all flying surfaces are all ready Monokoted ,I did the fuse with 6/10oz glass cloth. I weighed all components and as of this morning she weighs 61.25 oz. I'll go easy on the filler coats and one coat of Rustoleum. She should finish at 64 to 65 oz with a ST60....I'll post some pics when I've got the canopy detail complete....Thanks,PhillySkip

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 01:11:45 PM »
Shug, did I spot crimped lines on that plane?   Also is that a Brodak handle?   The plane looks good in the air and the green grass looks good too.  I have nothing but a couple of inches of snow to look at.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2017, 05:04:43 PM »
Shug, did I spot crimped lines on that plane?   Also is that a Brodak handle?   The plane looks good in the air and the green grass looks good too.  I have nothing but a couple of inches of snow to look at.

No Sir...those are wrapped leadouts and wrapped lines. That is a Brodak handle. I like it.
That video is from Oct. 9 so we had some green grass then. Had white on the ground for a while now!
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 09:06:18 PM »
Good Shug!  y1 Steve
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Offline Jared Hays

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2017, 10:44:07 PM »
I like my Strega and compete strongly with it in the Mid West.

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: SV 11 vs Strega Revisited
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 02:26:54 PM »
Jared,thanks for jumping in. I'll keep all informed as to how mine performs when complete.


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