Sleeve sizes for making flying lines?

[Target]

What size sleeves work with what size lines sold by MBS?
Same question with regards to the .027 lead out wires?
http://mbsmodelsupply.com/Ordering/Order.php

Thanks!

[Fred Cronenwett]

If you decide to wrap the end of the flying lines or lead outs this video might help, when I use the sleeves that are available at bass pro and other fishing outlets I get a variety of sizes and see what works best



Fred

[Dwayne]

What size sleeves work with what size lines sold by MBS?
Same question with regards to the .027 lead out wires?
http://mbsmodelsupply.com/Ordering/Order.php

Thanks!

If you wish to go with crimps check them often they can and do break, please if you can learn how to wrap, much better 

[peabody]

A proper crimping tool is essential....NOT needle nose pliers.
I suggest chamfering the tubes to avoid sharp edges.
Make sure that you use the AMA guidelines that are pictured in the Control Line General section...

Proper crimps are certified for aircraft use.....AFIK wrapped ends are not.

Have fun!

[John Rist]

Loved the video on how to wrap a line end.  I have never used epoxy to seal the end.  Instead I use red and black shrink tubing over the wrap.  This way it seals the loose end of the wrap and color codes the up line on both ends.  I use red for up.

[john e. holliday]

Contact Melvin as he sells the items and will tell you the proper size. 

[Tim Wescott]

Contact Melvin as he sells the items and will tell you the proper size. 

If by "sleeve" you mean the crimp sleeve -- yes, listen to Uncle John.  Melvin is knowledgeable and friendly, and will be happy to help out.

[Fredvon4]

Dang some of you guys must be real hard on your lines... and I do get it that many of you put up more flights in a weekend than I do all year long on any one plane

I took to heart (because I experienced it) that the copper wrap and solder method was a problem waiting for a bad time to happen back in 2012 when I started asking

Tried my hand at wrapping and shrink tube as I was in shop looking at perfectly good sets of crimped line a few combat guys gave me

Right line, right tubing (preped) and correct method of loop or thimble end inside the crimp THREE times seems to me, in practice, and a over stressed pull test as a quicker, easier method...and I prefer it

The Proper Crimp tools are NOT hard to find  or have to be terribly expensive

I tend to think it is JUST as possible to have a BAD wrapping technique and future break and problem as there is with crimp tubes

I have crimp tubes in various sized from MBS, Wally World fishing, and BassPro... some seem to be copper, some are most likely aluminium, and at least one pack of leader crimps are certainly steel as they can be picked with a magnet

As aircraft guy for decades, I fought dissimilar metal electrolysis all sorts of ways... so Virginia are your ~30 year old Stainless stranded and copper wrapped ends corroding withOUT solder anyway... ?

Chris.... MBS small crimps and steel lines are too small for much with bad eyes and shaky hands ---I had trouble making sets with .008 and .010 so pitched it all in favor of fishing line and real simple knots

That said the price and qty of his next 3 sizes are worth having on hand ---acknowledged that one size (large)is out of stock or unavailable any more

[Target]

OK, I sent MBS an email inquiry about sleeve sizes.
I'll report back, so that others will have the answer to the same question that I asked.
I'm surprised that /I have 8 replies and no answers!

R,
Chris

[EddyR]

Sleeve?

[Dane Martin]

Now I started to take pics before I realized someone broke these and put them back in the box.... but the general idea is there.
This type of crimper swedges the tubing over the cable. Line, wire, whatever we call it. Get a good quality one. Like this brand. Or, if you go to a CAT dealer, order this part number. I haven't been in CL for as long as these other fellas, but ALL of the line failures I have seen so far are because of improperly made lines. Again, my experience is limited to my little world. Just giving my opinion.

[Dane Martin]

Oh and to address your question; I don't know what size the tubing is. I go to the hobby shop, pick the tube that three layers of line goes through and cut my own.
I can measure it, but Melvin will get back to you. He's awesome.

[dave siegler]

First of all he asked for what size of sleeve to use, not how to warp lines.  

Please answer the question he asked.


I use this swagger about $20.  This does a prefect job, I will never warp lines again.

https://www.amazon.com/P-Line-Tools-Deluxe-Crimper-Swager/dp/B004RDSUCG/?ie=UTF8&qid=1487083814&sr=8-2&keywords=pline+crimper

I use 027 id crimps.  You use 3 passes though.  

[Target]

Sleeve?

Yes, that is what mbs calls them. I take it by your somewhat cryptic post that you are of the opinion that wrapping is the way to go, as is the opinion of some of the others above then?
Kind regards,
Chris

[EddyR]

Yes, that is what mbs calls them. I take it by your somewhat cryptic post that you are of the opinion that wrapping is the way to go, as is the opinion of some of the others above then?
Kind regards,
Chris

Chris    You are blaming us,all the above for not getting you your answer. Sorry but I guess none so far that has responded has bought "sleeves" from MBS.
 I have bought wire from him and did not know he sold "sleeves" You were asked by Tim what you meant by "sleeve" but you did not answer.
 In your post above mine you told us like we were all small school children that you had 8 replies but not the correct ones.
 I put in "sleeve" to get you to respond as to what you wanted with a little more detail.
 If you want to use the sleeve or wire method that is up to you. I have never said anything on here about which way to do lines.
 You over reacted to a simple replies.
EddyR    aka Eddie Haskell

[Target]

Yes, none of the replies had the info I was seeking, so nobody that replied must have bought the sleeves that MBS sells with the wire they bought. Wrapping must be the more popular method of terminating the lines I guess.
I am in agreement that wrapping is probably more secure, but clearly it is more of a time burner than using a crimp sleeve, which the AMA is OK with.
I have wrapped the ends of my first built models' LO wire, and also an ARF that I revamped the controls of before it was assembled. I just don't have as much time as I would like because I still work, so therefore, the crimped sleeves seem like a good way to save time, and if accomplished properly, and pull tested, should be good enough to be safe.

Personally, as a career boat guy, I'm not sure why the AMA designated the round sleeves with the 3 passes of wire, except for that it could be done with simple tools. I would think the parts I have used (and I'm sure others here as well) for offshore fishing would work well. They are soft copper or aluminum swages, that are shaped like a "figure 8", and I figure if you can crimp monofilament fishing line with this arrangement and not weaken it, it surely could be used for stranded wire.
But that method won't meet AMA regulation, unfortunately, even though it could be better, possibly.

Please don't confuse Dave's answer below (which I do appreciate, thanks Dave) with my response. I just thought it odd that so many chimed in with an answer to a different question, which would have been, "Which method do you use to terminate your lines?"
Like I indicated, I can see how not pinching the actual flying wire would be safer than doing just that with the (crimp) sleeves, but since the sleeve method is allowed, I would prefer that for now, especially if I am going to make up multiple sets of lines (my intention).
I'll likely still wrap the bellcrank end of the LO wires, just because they are hardest to get at if needed.

Thanks for your reply as well, Eddy.

Regards,
Chris

[Target]

If you want to know something specific about MBS call them, why you asking us.

MM

I do want to specifically know, I was hoping that someone who ordered these before me might have the answer I was seeking, so that I could just place my order, without contacting Marvin.
I have a question into Melvin now, I will post here the answer he gives to me. For all to use if they choose to do so. ;-)
1/8" seems pretty large for 3 strands of .015" wire to me, but I don't know, and you said thick wall, so maybe the ID is the right size, dependent on the wall thickness...

Very Respectfully,
Chris Behm

[dave siegler]

the copper fishing sleeves work well.  When I get home I will check the sizes in my bag. 

[Dane Martin]

I believe the last time the club here bought the line sleeves from MBS model supply, for the .015 size lines, we got the medium. See pic for the size.
Hope this helps!

[EddyR]

 I remember many years ago when I bought finished lines they were done crudely with 3/32 OD aluminum tubing. Some times I bought the lines with kits included to do the ends and they also had 3/32 od aluminum tubes. I still have some of them. I used something smaller. They always pull tested ok but would fatigue inside the tubing and eventually break. I had a old set break a few years ago and totaled my 40 year old AAsr. I cut off all the ends with sleeve on then and rewound with wire.  I can do a end with wire with out a holding tool in five minutes and they are smooth. Some wire seems more brittle than others and is subject to breaking.
 Ed

[Steve Helmick]

All this talk of "warping" and "swaggering" has some of us wondering how either could apply to either leadouts or flying lines. If discussing wings and hotshot JV stunt pilots, sure, I can see that.  Steve

[john e. holliday]

I do want to specifically know, I was hoping that someone who ordered these before me might have the answer I was seeking, so that I could just place my order, without contacting Marvin.
I have a question into Marvin now, I will post here the answer he gives to me. For all to use if they choose to do so. ;-)
1/8" seems pretty large for 3 strands of .015" wire to me, but I don't know, and you said thick wall, so maybe the ID is the right size, dependent on the wall thickness...

Very Respectfully,
Chris Behm

His name is 'Melvin'.   

[Target]

His name is 'Melvin'.   

Copy that, Melvin it is then.

Vr,
Chris

[Target]

the copper fishing sleeves work well.  When I get home I will check the sizes in my bag.  

I'd like that Dave.
I did a cursory search today and couldn't tell if the fishing outrigging places sold the double barrel swage sleeves small enough for the .015" line, but //I believe you if you say they do. I think this is the way I would go for non-contest lines.

Thank you to Fred, Dwayne, Fred, Rich, Tim, John, MM, Dane, John, Eddy, Steve, and all the rest for your efforts.

Regards,
Chris

[Target]

Still no reply from Melvin to my question on his website.
I suppose that I might have to call him, which I hate to do with people that I do not know.

[john e. holliday]

Hey, he won't bite your head off.   

[RknRusty]

I only scanned some of the replies, so I hope I'm not repeating an answer. But if I needed to know what size crimp tubes to use, I'd multiply the line diameter by 3 and get single barrel copper tubes somewhere near that size or slightly wider. I've used nickel before.

.015" x 3=.045", so a tube about 3/64" - 1/16"
.018" x 3=.054", so a tube about 1/16"
.027 lead outs x 3=.081", so a tube about 3/32"

Or do what dane said:

Oh and to address your question; I don't know what size the tubing is. I go to the hobby shop, pick the tube that three layers of line goes through and cut my own.

Then swage them.

I'll swage leadouts when my hands hurt or maybe if I'm too lazy to wire wrap them, and I always wrap flying line sets.
Rusty

[john e. holliday]

Chris,  I had a brain lapse.  Melvin may be done now, but today was the Sport Goodyear Racing in Dallas.

[Target]

I got my answer from Melvin...

> which sleeves do I need for .015 wire and which for .027 lead outs?
>
Chris,

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

Our medium line sleeves work for both .015 and .018 lines.  The large
line sleeves work for ,027 wire.

Melvin

Good to get the info from the man directly, I suppose.
However he is out of the large sleeves at this time, so he suggests to either wait until they are back in stock, or wrap per the AMA code.