Registration Required of CL Included

[Mike Keville]

Why don't we all just go back to Solid Scale display contests and tell the bureaucrats to go f#uck themselves?

[Dan McEntee]

   I talked to Sean Elliott (a Vice President with the EAA, a former Junior National Stunt Champion, and still an active model flyer of several disciplines) and his discussions with the FAA reveal that the FAA told him that C/L and Free Flight models are NOT exempt. The FAA says they regulate the operation of aircraft, no matter what size, and that we fly aircraft. I still think it's a bunch of crap, an illegal and un-enforcable law, and will all fall apart inside of a year. Sean thinks it will take two years. The next hoolla hoop will come along, things will settle down and define commercial users of quads, and sales of the toy versions will take a nose dive .
    Wake me up when it's all over!
     Dan McEntee

[david beazley]

Why don't we all just go back to Solid Scale display contests and tell the bureaucrats to go f#uck themselves?

Would the BOM rule apply?

[dave siegler]

I still don't see why we a looking at the AMA to tell us what is in the FAA rules. 

Sure the rules are confusing and stupid.

But the AMA was NOT asked to write them.   So why does the AMA have any credibility in this matter?
They don't. 

The FAA is the only rule making body here, and with regard to this rule making organization to be looking for toward guidance. 

[EddyR]

A baseball and a football can go higher than a CL plane do they need a FAA sticker? 

[BillP]

A baseball and a football can go higher than a CL plane do they need a FAA sticker? 

It depends on which FAA person you talk to...the "yes" one or the "no" one. Maybe they flip coins every morning to see who is "yes" or "no" for the day. You know, to be consistent.  It's beginning to make me laugh out loud every time I read about registration...hahahahahaaha

[Gerald Arana]

A baseball and a football can go higher than a CL plane do they need a FAA sticker?  

I don't think so..........Guess it depends on who's throwing it.  

Now a golf ball, that's a different story. Now if our idiot, I, er, uh, mean illustrious president hits one over 400 feet high............

 

Jerry

[Brett Buck]

It depends on which FAA person you talk to...the "yes" one or the "no" one. Maybe they flip coins every morning to see who is "yes" or "no" for the day. You know, to be consistent.  It's beginning to make me laugh out loud every time I read about registration...hahahahahaaha

   In this case the AMA is probably right, and if you ask people at the FAA involved with making the rule, they probably *don't* intend FF and CL to be included. That isn't going to do you do you any good when someone like a local police officer, armed with his FAA Guide for Law enforcment reference card, comes to shut you down., because it says nothing of the sort.

     Brett

[Chris McMillin]

I have registered to protect my license. Now that the FAA is involved my modeling activities, I have to conform to the regs, or I'd jeopardize my certificate and that's how I make my living. Because I fly RC.  As stupid as it sounds, or actually is, the fact remains that some peple actually stand to lose a lot if they do not comply. Guys like me, and I can't afford to give away pay because of this.
Like Dan says, and Sean Elliot is to have expressed, this will change a lot when commercial operators increase ops. The model thing might go completely away. There were several iterations of specific rules of light airplane visual flight rules after 9-11 until they finally decided, or arrived at the fact through finally reading them, that rules already existed for operating visually and in instrument conditions of all airplanes so the specific after 9/11 rules are now referred to as temporary rules. Same may happen here.
I don't think a vast number of FAA people know what control line actually is, anyway. Or... have the power to answer the question of whether they are exempt or not.
Chris...

[dave siegler]

it is going yo get worse.  If we are now flying aircraft, not model aircraft.  Our homeowners insurance will not cover it in most cases. 


Insurance companies would rather not over our activities. 

Since the AMA is only supplementary insurance, AMA will have to change a whole lot.  Think our rates are high now? 

[Brett Buck]

I don't think a vast number of FAA people know what control line actually is, anyway. Or... have the power to answer the question of whether they are exempt or not.

  I am sure you are right about the first. I am pretty sure you are not right on the second - they are tasked with enforcement, as are state/county/local law enforcement. They are armed with a document that amounts to a quick-reference guide for legal professionals. None of that says anything about CL or FF. As far as the guide goes, anything that goes into the air and is over .55 lbs is theirs to do with as they please.

   That's why I am trying to get the AMA to point this out to the FAA and try to get the document and FAQs (from the FAA) changed to reflect the intent. However, as noted in one of the threads here, the AMA is apparently unwilling to approach the topic with the FAA for fear of "muddying the waters" with regard to RC, etc.

   Brett

[Terrence Durrill]

      A serious question.....

      When I go out to fly my Sig Akromaster with a slant plug Fox 15 this Spring, will the feds just come get me and lock me up?  I am 75 years old and have been flying C/L since 1954 (62 years) without a licence and/or FAA approval.  I don't intend to stop now because of this insane bureauracy in Washington.  What is OBAMA going to do...... send me to AFGANISTAN?

      My question is since the law has been in effect since January 1st, is anyone sitting in a jail cell for flying a C/L plane on 60 foot lines?  I would bet that there have been a few violations of that law in the United States already and there will be more as the weather warms up.  Just wondering if I should expect to get cuffed about the 1st of May or so.        

    

[Fredvon4]

Terrrence....Sir.... the risk may be small but it is there just the same

I doubt you would ever be "locked up"

 but If you go review the Enforcement actions against violators of FCC (amateur radio rules) you will see these agencies have more power than you want to pay the lawyer to fight.... published law wins EVERY time and Could COST you more than you think

I am sure we can all assume INITIALLY the FAA will look for and FIND folks to be made examples of----- and THEY will never ever apply any common sense to that enforcement

I got my Free FAA number....problem eliminated....period

[Brett Buck]

      A serious question.....

      When I go out to fly my Sig Akromaster with a slant plug Fox 15 this Spring, will the feds just come get me and lock me up?  I am 75 years old and have been flying C/L since 1954 (62 years) without a licence and/or FAA approval.  I don't intend to stop now because of this insane bureauracy in Washington.  What is OBAMA going to do...... send me to AFGANISTAN?

      My question is since the law has been in effect since January 1st, is anyone sitting in a jail cell for flying a C/L plane on 60 foot lines?  I would bet that there have been a few violations of that law in the United States already and there will be more as the weather warms up.  Just wondering if I should expect to get cuffed about the 1st of May or so.        

    They will not be enforcing it until February 21st. I doubt you will get hauled off to jail but you could get your stuff confiscated (see also: civil forfeiture) and dragged into court. I don't think the FAA cares but anyone who wants to shut you down will use this as an excuse to take your stuff and make your life difficult.

   Brett

[Steve White]

I've been reading the forum for 4 months or so and joined up in November of last year. I'm getting back into this after more than 25 years and I've been following all this stuff on the Faa and I decided to go ahead and register just to avoid any possible problems, even though I haven't flown anything yet and probably won't for another month or more. I don't think anything is going to come of all this. Just my opinion though.

My son is a cop in the St. Louis county area and we've talked about this. He said this is one of the dumbest things he's ever heard. I told him the Faa is depending on the local law to enforce all this. He said good luck. He talked to his superiors about this and they all pretty much agree, they are not going to bother with it as they have more important things to do. A lot of the precincts are shorthanded as it is and unless the Faa comes into their office and forces them to do it, it's not going to happen. Even if the Faa try to force it, the cops will probably say they don't have time and to do it themselves,  I don't think the Faa is really thinking about this part. Can you really see a cop coming out and fining people and confiscating planes? It's not going to happen. I'm sure the Faa is going to try, but with little to no help from the police, they don't have the manpower to go out to the fields everyday to try and catch someone. Plus I think a lot of these guys don't like it themselves. Like people have been saying, this will all fall apart over time.
Steve
 

[Stew Robinson]

Is it still free to register? They did this to Salt Water Fishing a few years ago. I'm sick of paying fees to the government for everything I do. They seem to want to regulate every little thing. We should all just sit at home quietly and watch TV I guess.

[dave siegler]

   They will not be enforcing it until February 21st. I doubt you will get hauled off to jail but you could get your stuff confiscated (see also: civil forfeiture) and dragged into court. I don't think the FAA cares but anyone who wants to shut you down will use this as an excuse to take your stuff and make your life difficult.

   Brett

More important, what landowner or city is going to allow activity?   Flying fields will close.  We fly in a park.  The cops (right next door) love us, as when we are there, it keeps the teenagers in check, but if we are violating an FAA rule, goodbye to our flying privileges.

Also Bong state park has only tolerated rocket guys and model airplane guys.  One of the finest FF sites in the Midwest, is now trees and bird sanctuary.  This gives them a reason to shut that activity down. 

[Dan Berry]

If anyone lives in a town where local LEOs have the time and energy to be worrying about guys flying CL planes......the mayor of that town needs to be slapped out of office.

[Norm Faith Jr.]

This Friday I'll be attending the recertification seminar for holders of the FAA Inspection Authorization Certificate. Now these seminars mandatorily last for eight hours. I've been attending them every year for 28 years. Most of them have been very informative and some have been like, "man! Lets get this thing over with." But, one thing I've learned over the years...bring up a controversial subject when the Feds are on the stage and things can get down right lively and I mean lively. Guess what I'm going to do this Friday? 
Norm   

[Chuck_Smith]

So the AMA has been posting CL doesn't have to register...and an FAA guy on the registration phone line for questions told me CL doesn't have to register...but first he asked if a CL plane was one with lines to a handle. Now another FAA guy in CA says CL has to register because we are flying airplanes and not models.  Guess I need to go back to watching "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and forget about it.   

You can fly it, but you'll need to have an A&P do your annual inspections and you'll need to comply with all airworthiness directives, and have transponder in some situations. If it's foggy you'll need to file IFR.

[Gerald Arana]

More important, what landowner or city is going to allow activity?   Flying fields will close.  We fly in a park.  The cops (right next door) love us, as when we are there, it keeps the teenagers in check, but if we are violating an FAA rule, goodbye to our flying privileges.

Also Bong state park has only tolerated rocket guys and model airplane guys.  One of the finest FF sites in the Midwest, is now trees and bird sanctuary.  This gives them a reason to shut that activity down.  

Personally, I'm going to go buy a bunch of spray paint and go pi$$ some graffiti on the city hall.............

Why not? You never hear about any of these little jackasses getting fined........... And boy does that PI$$ me off!

[Terrence Durrill]

       Let's be clear about this.  The significance of this regulation/law is that the FEDERAL BUREAURACY continues to sqeeze our lives and take away every RIGHT and FREEDOM WE HAVE.  If we allow this to continue, we will soon be looking at a rerun of NAZI GERMANY or the old SOVIET UNION.  Will we roll over and play dead?  This issue goes far beyond our precious control line airplanes.  This tyranical Executive Branch of government, through its thousands of UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS is enslaving us and we have no recourse.  The non-elected bureaucrats are not responsible to the American People for their actions and decisions which affect our lives and can even carry not only fines, but even jail time.   This is just one of thousands of OBAMA ERA REGULATIONS that are being implemented as we speak and will continue to affect our rights and freedoms into the forseeable future.  If we lay down on this one, we have just lost another round (small though it may be) in the fight to save this country from MARXIST/COMMUNIST/ISLAMIST TYRANNY which is taking shape in Washington D.C. and across this country.  Wake up time is at hand folks.      

[Larry Borden]

F the AMA and FAA. I refuse to comply.

[Mike Griffin]

I will never comply with this idiocy. 

MG

[RC Storick]

      Let's be clear about this.  The significance of this regulation/law is that the FEDERAL BUREAURACY continues to sqeeze our lives and take away every RIGHT and FREEDOM WE HAVE.  If we allow this to continue, we will soon be looking at a rerun of NAZI GERMANY or the old SOVIET UNION.  Will we roll over and play dead?  This issue goes far beyond our precious control line airplanes.  This tyranical Executive Branch of government, through its thousands of UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS is enslaving us and we have no recourse.  The non-elected bureaucrats are not responsible to the American People for their actions and decisions which affect our lives and can even carry not only fines, but even jail time.   This is just one of thousands of OBAMA ERA REGULATIONS that are being implemented as we speak and will continue to affect our rights and freedoms into the forseeable future.  If we lay down on this one, we have just lost another round (small though it may be) in the fight to save this country from MARXIST/COMMUNIST/ISLAMIST TYRANNY which is taking shape in Washington D.C. and across this country.  Wake up time is at hand folks.      

Search you tube for Burns Oregon and see that they are under marshal law due to BLM land disputes.

[Terrence Durrill]

Search you tube for Burns Oregon and see that they are under marshal law due to BLM land disputes.

           Yes, the Oregon situation is one rather good example of Federal Government overreach............will we lie down and wait our fate?  We established this government to serve us and now it it turning against those (the American People) who established and authorized its very existence in the Constitution of the United States.  The people must maintain control or this Frankenstein monster will eat us alive.  Voting is not going to be enough to bring this government back into compliance with Constitutional authority.  If you want to know about our best hope for straightening this mess out.....check out the following site:           http://www.conventionofstates.com/

           I realize that these are political statements, but we have to deal with the reality we live in every day, and in this case that reality is reaching out to control and restrict our beloved hobby.  That should be enough to rile up quite a few people on this board.      

[Jim Dincau]

Check this out,

https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecars

[Tony Drago]

The EPA is self governing, It really does not have to answer to no one. They can make a suggestion and or ruling and the powers at be except it as a law.

[Randy Cuberly]

The EPA is self governing, It really does not have to answer to no one. They can make a suggestion and or ruling and the powers at be except it as a law.

The answer to this my friends to elect only Republican Conservatives to Congress and the Whitehouse.  No they won't be perfect but they will reduce the size and power of the Federal Government.  Get out the vote!

Randy Cuberly

[Terrence Durrill]

The answer to this my friends to elect only Republican Conservatives to Congress and the Whitehouse.  No they won't be perfect but they will reduce the size and power of the Federal Government.  Get out the vote!

Randy Cuberly

    Randy, I agree with your comments 100%; we must get out the vote, but we must do more........the Convention of States Project will complete the job and must be done if We the People are going to regain control and rein in this runaway, out of control federal government.  Be sure to check out the site below....it tells you everything you need to know about this process which is a grassroots movement authorized in Article V of the United States Constituion.  This project is already underway in many states across this country as we speak.        

                                                                       http://www.conventionofstates.com/

[Serge_Krauss]

Wow, another thread. Ty's right. We just don't have enough to keep us busy. I see too that another couple people can't restrain themselves from talking completely silly and irresponsible politics. The fact is that the FAA has in their pronouncements and responses included the words transmitter and electronically controlled. Sure, the FAA is full of employees who have no idea what a CL plane is. Those guys respond in ignorance and in response to internal directives from as abysmally ignorant people as themselves. That does not negate those missives from people more closely related to the FAA policy makers.

I am 70. While I pass for someone in his 50's, I've lived a long enough life, some of it in challenge of the law enforcers, to not give a rat's ass whether they try to punish me for being better informed then they. CL is not included. (period).

SK

[Jim Kraft]

The thing is, R/C shouldn't be either. Why should the government have control over our hobby when we have done nothing to require it. Power still corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When the government gets to powerful it becomes oppressive. It is supposed to be there for us, not against us. Political correctness is a farce to justify taking away our freedom. No, all government is not bad, but it becomes bad when it begins to control every little thing we do in one way or another. The requirement to sign up with the FAA is just another shinning example of government out of control.

[Terrence Durrill]

The thing is, R/C shouldn't be either. Why should the government have control over our hobby when we have done nothing to require it. Power still corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When the government gets to powerful it becomes oppressive. It is supposed to be there for us, not against us. Political correctness is a farce to justify taking away our freedom. No, all government is not bad, but it becomes bad when it begins to control every little thing we do in one way or another. The requirement to sign up with the FAA is just another shinning example of government out of control.

       Well stated Jim.  Your are exactly right.  Still, the government will not reform itself..........like it or not, that is up to We the People.     

       A good place to start is here......        http://www.conventionofstates.com/

[Target]

I'm registered with the AMA, that's something, and it should be all that's needed. The faa made a gross mistake in judgment, and yes, they are overstepping their boundaries with ineffective and useless rule making.
Just as gun control laws only hamper law abiding citizens, this regulation will have the same negative effect.
The government appointed people need to take it upon themselves to become educated in this topic before they allow their standard knee jerk reaction to every little thing.
Until we start demanding this to happen, we'll get what we deserve.

[Sean McEntee]

     Got an email from the AMA today:

http://cl.exct.net/?qs=7baeece2ee4214807dd0378735505c377cdab1013db80be6208d417410e62d9f

     Part of the Aviation Innovation, Reform, and Reauthorization (AIRR) Act is supposed to address the FAA's overstepping of its bounds.  More as the story develops.

      In the end, I don't really sweat this whole thing at all.  Even if the AIRR act falls through, I give this whole registration thing a year--two at the most-- before it falls apart.  I've heard from a few sources that are spread throughout the country that local PDs either aren't aware of the registration requirement, or simply don't care.  Cops are busy enough busting crackheads and chasing down drunk drivers, and are prepared to tell the FAA that they are pretty much on their own to enforce their regulations.  That leaves as good as NOONE to cite offenders.

      I asked a FF buddy of mine what the overall consensus in FF Land is, since most outdoor FF models exceed the weight requirement and a lot of them have remote operated dethermalizers and, by definition, must register.  He chucked and said that a collective "middle finger" is being given to the FAA.  Makes sense.  Most FF fields are either on private property and/or located in remote areas so it is highly unlikely that FAA examiners will show up to check registration.

      So don't worry about "the 50m target" as we say in the Army.  Things will go back to normal in the long run me thinks.

[Randy Cuberly]

Yeah....or get worse!  These things seldom stay static.  When people are hired to do a job in the Government they try to do it whether it makes any sense or not.  They don't want lose their cushy job so they continue to invent ways to keep it.  Sometimes they don't get away with it but usually they do.  If nothing else they just continue to invent more and more complicated regulations so nobody really understands what they have to do to actually comply.  As an example supreme I give you the IRS!!

Randy Cuberly!

[Norm Faith Jr.]

Well I just got home from Little Rock, after listening to the "UAV lecture" given by the FAA representative. He just got in from Oklahoma City after attending a UAV discussion there. I even taped the lecture. When it came to taking questions...I asked..."does a model airplane attached to your hand by steel wires, fall into the category of a UAV requiring registration?" His answer was "No!" "That is a tethered model airplane and is not required registration." No ifs, no if it has this, just plain No! But all of those other RC models (drones) weighing over a specific weight, will have to display a registration number, call the control tower or air traffic control and etc. and they are serious about it, however the enforcement issue is being worked out between the FEDS and local law enforcement.
Norm

[john e. holliday]

       Well stated Jim.  Your are exactly right.  Still, the government will not reform itself..........like it or not, that is up to We the People.     

       A good place to start is here......        http://www.conventionofstates.com/

And look at what we having to replace what we are trying to get rid of.   A few should be behind bars now as well as some that are in office/positions  now.