Registration Required of CL Included

[Louis Rankin]

Actually, I am very surprised it has taken the FAA this long to regulate model aircraft.  Many are claiming they are going to ignore the registration.  Although not required by the AMA "yet", as a CD, I intend to CYA and not allow anyone to enter a competition without the registration certificate.  Would hate for the FAA to come in shut down an event because we were not in compliance.  Will have markers available for everyone to place their number anywhere on the model they wish before competition begins.  All it takes is for one A-hole FAA inspector to show up at a contest and ruin everyone's day.  It will happen!

Now, if the mandate is rescinded, then business as usual.  But as it stands, it is a common sense standard for CDs to adopt for events and contests.  Does it suck?  Well, yes; however, so do most the rules we fly under anyway.  Also, you can expect that chartered AMA clubs and flying sites will require the certification before you may fly at their fields.  And, if you do not have a current certificate, don't expect the AMA insurance to cover you in case of an accident.  Your homeowners insurance either.  They will find any loophole they can to not pay out.

So, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  Don't put your toys away in defiance.  Go ahead and register and lets continue to have fun with our toys.  You don't have to like or agree with it; however, it is now a requirement, so comply and move on.

[johnt4051]

This just came from AMA:

Well, just thought I should jump back on here and give everyone some updated info.
 
The AMA Executive Council meet last night and gave us some direction.  Note that there have been some changes on what AMA’s position is and how it effects our members.
 
1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.
2.       AMA is now recommending that AMA members hold off on registration while AMA pursues legal action.  AMA will be putting out another e-mail concerning this later today or tomorrow with more details on how this position came about.
 
So, the bottom line here is that this situation is fluid and there are almost daily changes.  Please, PLEASE make sure you are getting the latest e-mails from AMA and check the website DAILY to make sure you have all the current info.

[Fred Cronenwett]

I also got an E-mail from Tony Stillman confirming what John said above. I was asking if registration was required for CL models then would CD's be required to anything at a contest.

I am going to register since I use 2.4 Ghz RC controls in my CL scale models and if I ever fly Radio control then I am also covered.


this is the reply I got from Tony Stillman....

1.  It was determined today the CL models are EXEMPT from registration.  So if you only fly CL and have no RC models, then you do  not need to register.

2.  Registration is a personal issue.  It is not up to the club, CD or AMA to require anyone to register, or require to see anyone’s registration.  Therefore, there is no requirement for clubs or AMA officials to question anyone about registration.  

Tony Stillman
Flying Site Assistance Coordinator/Competitions-Technical Director
Academy of Model Aeronautics
www.modelaircraft.org
800-435-9262 Ext. 230


All good news for CL pilots!

Fred

[Carl Cisneros]

I just received the same letter from Tony Stillman

Will wait to see what happens over the next few day...............

[Mike Griffin]

I have read every comment in this thread and I respect everyone of them for their content and thoughtful input by the members of this forum on this issue.  I guess I will also chime in and voice my opinion since this does directly relate to our hobby and the future of it.

Those of us who saw this coming when AMA first embraced these things, did voice our displeasure to the AMA and on here about what the eventual outcome was going to be and how this was going to be nothing but detrimental to the hobby and lo and behold, look what has happened.  

Personally, for what it is worth, my days of participating in flying models may be coming to and end in the very near future.  Not because I want to because i still enjoy building for myself and other people and after having the weight loss surgery, have finally gotten myself back to where I was beginning to fly again and had thought of releasing a new line of kits.  However, my life is not model airplanes, it was/is a hobby I enjoy very much.

But as some point I have to say enough of this government overreach and inept rulings on everything from what we eat to where we buy health insurance.   I am sick and tired of the people in government telling me how I must run my life and ramming their agendas down my throat and I am not going to stand for it anymore.  Those of you who still compete and feel you must comply with the asinine situation, i certainly respect your decision to do so and that certainly is your choice.  

I can assure you this will not stop at just simply getting you into a government data base and collecting your private information, rest assured there will be more and more and more bureaucratic crap that they will try and force upon us, this simply does not stop here.

Anybody remember the statement "its the principle of the thing".  I could care less about the $5.00, it is not about the money, it is about an intrusive government that has no idea what they are talking about and are going to punish everyone because of a few bad eggs that want to do bad things with a quadcopter.  Hell, they don't even know the difference between fully automatic and semi automatic weapons and they want to take away our second amendment rights?  I don't think so....

Anyway, those are my thoughts and what I personally choose to do...everyone has the right to approach this the way they see fit.  I honestly don't think the AMA will be around in the future....I think they have gotten in bed with the wrong people.

Regards
Mike

[Brett Buck]

This just came from AMA:

Well, just thought I should jump back on here and give everyone some updated info.
 
The AMA Executive Council meet last night and gave us some direction.  Note that there have been some changes on what AMA’s position is and how it effects our members.
 
1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.
2.       AMA is now recommending that AMA members hold off on registration while AMA pursues legal action.  AMA will be putting out another e-mail concerning this later today or tomorrow with more details on how this position came about.

     Among the possible reason, I know that I and several other people told them the very obvious- that the members expect the AMA to seek a restraining order *immediately*, regardless of the likelihood of success. And that "we are weighing our options" is not an acceptable response, given that they knew about this for certain for at least a month.

   Others (not me) also noted that this might be the only way they remain AMA officers beyond the next month or so - because the members will first call for their resignations, and failing that, recall them, particularly Bob "Drones are the future" Brown. Not that they didn't manage to persuade the FAA, but because they failed to take even token actions to fight it.

   Brett

[beercamel]

I've flown real aircraft for nearly 40 years (civilian, military and airlines) and, having thus been exposed to the FAA, here is my $.02 on the subject. It's a warning, really.

It is estimated that one million drones will be sold in the USA this year alone. Some of these will be purchased by idiots, by reckless individuals, and by others who have sinister motives (such as those who shoot lasers at airline cockpits, which, by the way, I have personally experienced). With these numbers it is almost inevitable that there will be a serious incident or accident involving a drone and a real aircraft. There have already been many close calls.

This registration process is just baby step 1 for the FAA. When such a serious incident or accident occurs in the future, the wrath of the FAA will descend upon ALL of the registered individuals. The next step is certification and licensing. Certification and licensing means training, examinations, evaluations, and inspections. More and more regulations will follow. I am not joking. This is already happening to commercial drone operators, and the FAA will come to see us in the same light.

I hope I'm wrong, but we may come to think of the pre-drone era as the good-old-days of model aviation.

Chad.... I TOTALLY AGREE!!

And here is the fact that chaps my a@@...  this new registration plan will do NOTHING to stop either the idiots or the bad guys..   

Idiots will ALWAYS find a way to screw it up.. remember the fool flying his beach chair attached to WX balloons at 17,000 near LAX?   

Bad guys will simply bypass the rules.. just as they always do..  I am sure the FAA is incompetent enough to believe the threat of a $25,000.00 fine will deter these people.. 



I can ALMOST agree with commercial drone regulation..  but there is nothing to be gained by the registration of toy drones and model aircraft..


I was USAF.. I flew F-4's, F-16's, F-15's and KC-135's  What did you fly in the USN?

[beercamel]

So, don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  Don't put your toys away in defiance.  Go ahead and register and lets continue to have fun with our toys.  You don't have to like or agree with it; however, it is now a requirement, so comply and move on.

I disagree..  I REFUSE to participate in this registration..  If you are not part of the solution.. you are part of the problem..

All this is going to do is kill model aviation..   and it will NOT stop any 'threat' from the personal toy drones..

Why aren't all laser registered?  Lasers are a big threat to aviation.. I personally have been lased six times on airline trips.. ..

[Terrence Durrill]

I've flown real aircraft for nearly 40 years (civilian, military and airlines) and, having thus been exposed to the FAA, here is my $.02 on the subject. It's a warning, really.

It is estimated that one million drones will be sold in the USA this year alone. Some of these will be purchased by idiots, by reckless individuals, and by others who have sinister motives (such as those who shoot lasers at airline cockpits, which, by the way, I have personally experienced). With these numbers it is almost inevitable that there will be a serious incident or accident involving a drone and a real aircraft. There have already been many close calls.

This registration process is just baby step 1 for the FAA. When such a serious incident or accident occurs in the future, the wrath of the FAA will descend upon ALL of the registered individuals. The next step is certification and licensing. Certification and licensing means training, examinations, evaluations, and inspections. More and more regulations will follow. I am not joking. This is already happening to commercial drone operators, and the FAA will come to see us in the same light.

I hope I'm wrong, but we may come to think of the pre-drone era as the good-old-days of model aviation.

       Ah yes, the ironfist of tyranical government cometh.................as long as we give in, they will keep coming.  I recommend that anyone who doubts this read William L. Shirer's book. "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".    

[RC Storick]

I just got off the phone with the AMA and they are now registered here and this afternoon will be posting information pertaining to the FAA ruling. I was also to CL does not have told register at this time. But wait for the Memo.

[beercamel]

Personally, for what it is worth, my days of participating in flying models may be coming to and end in the very near future.  Not because I want to because i still enjoy building for myself and other people and after having the weight loss surgery, have finally gotten myself back to where I was beginning to fly again and had thought of releasing a new line of kits.  However, my life is not model airplanes, it was/is a hobby I enjoy very much.

But as some point I have to say enough of this government overreach and inept rulings on everything from what we eat to where we buy health insurance.   I am sick and tired of the people in government telling me how I must run my life and ramming their agendas down my throat and I am not going to stand for it anymore.  Those of you who still compete and feel you must comply with the asinine situation, i certainly respect your decision to do so and that certainly is your choice.  

I can assure you this will not stop at just simply getting you into a government data base and collecting your private information, rest assured there will be more and more and more bureaucratic crap that they will try and force upon us, this simply does not stop here.

Anybody remember the statement "its the principle of the thing".  I could care less about the $5.00, it is not about the money, it is about an intrusive government that has no idea what they are talking about and are going to punish everyone because of a few bad eggs that want to do bad things with a quadcopter.  Hell, they don't even know the difference between fully automatic and semi automatic weapons and they want to take away our second amendment rights?  I don't think so....

Anyway, those are my thoughts and what I personally choose to do...everyone has the right to approach this the way they see fit.  I honestly don't think the AMA will be around in the future....I think they have gotten in bed with the wrong people.

Regards
Mike

God Bless you Mike..!

I will be standing right next to you..

[Chad Hill]

Hi beercamel,

E2C, C2A, T2C. I've been lasered several times, too. Will they wait until someone buys it before anything is done?

I like your call sign-- from AF days? They tagged me with "Boot" (for Boot Hill).

Best,

Chad

[beercamel]

Hi beercamel,

E2C, C2A, T2C. I've been lasered several times, too. Will they wait until someone buys it before anything is done?

I like your call sign-- from AF days? They tagged me with "Boot" (for Boot Hill).

Best,

Chad

Hey Boot!..

I got the call sign right after Gulf War 1..  we were celebrating with a couple RAF Tornado and Jaguar Squadrons and Just before the Piano was set ablaze I was caring a very large tray of beers and shots..    some RAF bloke called me the 'beercamel'.. The next day the damages in the O club exceeded 6000.00.. and it was claimed it was the fault of the 'beercamel'..  Everybody in mysquadron started calling me that..  and you know how thing like that stick..

The FAA should require the registration of all lasers!..   at 5 bucks a pop of course.. !! What IDIOTS..

BTW, I heard today from one of my inside UPS buddies, as well as a rumor from another non-UPS guy about the Birmingham UPS A300 crash. Rumor has it that the FAA was a significant contributory factor that was not included in the report. Apparently there is evidence it was covered up by the NTSB and the FAA..  We can only hope if this is true that it gets out and a WHOLE LOT of heat is put on the FAA..

BC

[Mike Keville]

======================================================

That's not a bad idea.  Let's git-er-done!!!

Realistically, however, that has no chance of succeeding, since the vast majority of AMA (Academy of Multirotors & ARFs) members are RC flyers -- many being of the "toy-buying" category.  True model builders (including the top-tier RC Scale folks) are so small in number as to make any thought of a recall or impeachment impractical.

A good friend of mine often appends a line to his posts which reads: "Evolve or get left behind."  The way things are going, I'll elect to get left behind.

'nuff said.....

[beercamel]

"Evolve or get left behind."  The way things are going, I'll elect to get left behind.

'nuff said.....

True.. but 'evolve' means  Improve, get better, become more efficient...  NOT submit to or accept ridiculous, bureaucratic, rules..

[Mike Keville]

True.. but 'evolve' means  Improve, get better, become more efficient...  NOT submit to or accept ridiculous, bureaucratic, rules..

Feelings have nothing to do with rules.  In the AMA's mind, 'evolve' means going Electric and embracing multirotors.

I won't do either.

[jim gilmore]

Not real sure in all of this has anybody wondered if This now includes Kites ?
after all a kite can go up any where the wind goes and who's to say where it will end up
A model teather by lins less than fifty feet from the pilot is know where its going more off less...

[Norm Faith Jr.]

Let me just throw this in here...I predicted, way back when (among my fellow modelers, some 14 years ago) this would become a big controversy. Post 911...AMA headlines..."Model Airplane flown nonstop across the Atlantic Ocean." (paraphrasing)  It drew a ton of attention to the Government, the new HLS and the FAA. I know from first hand discussions with my FAA acquaintances, that licensing, registration and new rules, became topics of interest by upper management.  "The chickens have come home to roost." 
Norm

[Mike Griffin]

Take a look at this

http://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-warns-it-will-move-drone-research-abroad-1418076981

[Chad Hill]

Beercamel,

That's a hilarious story!

I ran into a great bunch of British blokes, too. They were mercenaries flying Hawker Hunters for the Sultan of Oman on the island of Al Masirah, off the coast of Oman, in '87 during Operation Earnest Will. We broke down there one night and were royally hosted by the lads. I had been at sea for 3 months and hadn't had a drop to drink (the USN is dry, you know) and wow, did I get pickled.

Anyways, we struck up a great arrangement with the Brits. Every week the air wing on the USS Constellation nominated a hard working enlisted man to be "Sailor of the Week". We got permission from the CAG to fly the fellow on, shall we say, a "training mission" which conveniently included a refueling stop on Al Masirah. There the Brits were waiting for the lucky sailor with a large assortment of adult beverages which he had to quickly consume before the fuel tanks were filled.

Needless to say, not only did this enhance international relations...but it was a great moral booster for the air wing as well.

P.S.-Yes, I've heard some of those UPS rumors, too. Hmmm-

Boot

[George Hostler]

The following arrived in my E-mail in box 3:18pm MST today. AMA recommends holding off registering your aircraft (deadline is Feb. 19, 2016) until they get word back from the US Courts on a petition they filed with them back in August. Below is the text of the E-mail:

Academy of Model Aeronautics
Member Communication
Thursday, December 17, 2015    

Dear AMA Members,

Yesterday, the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of all model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.

AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA's safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress' intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft."

The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA's petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA's interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft." The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.

In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA's reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court's immediate attention to AMA's petition. 

While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations.  Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA's members strive to be a part of the solution.

As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.

Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.

In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA's interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.

Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.

Kind regards,

The AMA Executive Council

Bob Brown, AMA President
Gary Fitch, AMA Executive Vice President
Andy Argenio, AMA Vice President, District I
Eric Williams, AMA Vice President, District II
Mark Radcliff, AMA Vice President, District III
Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President, District IV
Kris Dixon, AMA Vice President, District V
Randy Cameron, AMA Vice President, District VI
Tim Jesky, AMA Vice President, District VII
Mark Johnston, AMA Vice President, District VIII
Jim Tiller, AMA Vice President, District IX
Lawrence Tougas, AMA Vice President, District X
Chuck Bower, AMA Vice President, District XI

© 1936-2014 Academy of Model Aeronautics.
5161 E. Memorial Dr., Muncie IN 47302
Tel.: (800) 435-9262; Fax.: (765) 289-4248
All rights reserved.

[BillP]

My opinion:  That email is a play on words and a cya for failure.  At this point AMA is doing nothing but trying to work out the registration process with the FAA so AMA numbers can be used.  They want to stay in the loop for financial reasons and to grow membership by pushing the "community based organizations" BS. If the FAA says CL has to register the AMA is OK with it. Everything else is fluff for damage control of their large angry rc membership base (the rc guys are major pixxed).

Hope I'm wrong but their blogs and emails don't say much to show CL is even on the table for discussion with the FAA. Everything I've seen about CL registration is from second hand discussions or someone's opinion...and contradictory.

BP

[john e. holliday]

see attached

[BillP]

see attached

Yep, unfortunately the current admin believes they SHOULD run our lives because they are superior and know better. Since the FAA reports to the commander in chief it is no surprise model registration (lawful or not) is happening. The FAA has already over regulated general aviation to the point of declining numbers...next in line is the model industry.  Even 10 years ago everyone would have laughed hard at anyone who said models are going to be registered with the FAA and the AMA supported it.

[Eric Viglione]

This one is fun... a better slice and dice than a chef at Benihana's...



So where is the equivalent test video of a drone ingestion?

Maybe they already know Metal, CF, Lipo's, & Plastic won't be as cheap of a test as chicken flesh and bone... or they don't want to encourage you know who...

Poor chicken... he could have gone to the Boston Market and met a more dignified demise. Where was PETA?  

Joking aside, just like the selfish evil morons with Laser Pointers and no respect for human life who run away when the Police come knocking because they KNOW they are doing something wrong, I somehow don't think people whose intentions are to fly a drone into an airborne jet fan are going to register...

Just like the lock on your front door, some things are only there to keep the honest people honest. Money would have been better spent on a "drone offenders list" than an 'honest persons list".

With a Drone Offenders List, they could keep a much smaller, manageable list to track of those who get caught flying in active controlled NAS space, and fine them on a sliding scale that gets higher with each offense, and kick in some jail time, with longer vacations as it gets more dangerous or a repeat offender, and add them to a No-Fly-List, just like a felon who can't buy a gun legally or void their parole and back to jail.

That MIGHT make some of the smarter and less evil ones think before they do something stupid. And even all that won't stop a terrorist intent on their mission. The registration is beginning to look like just a giant political over-reaction to fear, and letting no crisis go to waste, it's also a data grab, and a potential money grab.

EricV

[Target]

And now it appears that FAA plans to make their registration numbers available to the public. Great for thieves shopping for free hobby items.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33487741&postcount=212

Regards, Chris

[EJN]

If you have an amateur radio license (or commercial) from the FCC, the information
is in a public database. For an amateur license, you can use a P.O. box for the
address.

[dave siegler]

And now it appears that FAA plans to make their registration numbers available to the public. Great for thieves shopping for free hobby items.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33487741&postcount=212

Regards, Chris

easy
Full scale has the same policy, but there has been no sudden increase of thefts of beech bonanzas?

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

[Tony Drago]

see attached

[Bill Johnson]

easy
Full scale has the same policy, but there has been no sudden increase of thefts of beech bonanzas?

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

Right. And you have to search by N number. You cannot search by name, address or any other piece of info.

[Target]

easy
Full scale has the same policy, but there has been no sudden increase of thefts of beech bonanzas?

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

It's probably a bit trickier to rip off a doctor killer from a hanger at an airport than to break into someone's house when they are gone and grab a few thousand dollars worth of rc gear, don't you think? I do.
R,
Chris

[Bill Johnson]

It's probably a bit trickier to rip off a doctor killer from a hanger at an airport than to break into sometimes house when they are Hon and grab a few thousand dollars worth of rc gear, don't you think? I do.
R,
Chris

No, actually it's quite easy to walk into a general aviation facility, bypass the key system on an airplane you wouldn't use on your shed and steal that airplane.
Too simple as compared to trying to break into someone's house, steal something of very limited value to anyone except the owner.

The thing is, we can "what if" this to death with regard to the consequences of the registration. All's it does is divide us. I think we should just agree that the FAA is reaching well beyond their Congressional mandate and agree to fight that issue.

[wwwarbird]

 Get this...

 A fellow C/L club member of mine stopped into the LHS for a few supplies yesterday in Minneapolis. This particular shop is about as large as they get anymore. With it being this close to Christmas the store was very busy, including noticeable lines of people buying drones. While he was there he asked the store manager what he thought of the latest FAA developments with aero-modeling and particularly the drone issue. The manager replied, "Don't worry, it doesn't apply to us."

 Really. 

[Shawn Lenci]

And people wonder why the LHS is nearly extinct?   I have pretty much given up the on the LHS years ago.  Little product and no help. 

Shawn

[Target]

No, actually it's quite easy to walk into a general aviation facility, bypass the key system on an airplane you wouldn't use on your shed and steal that airplane.
Too simple as compared to trying to break into someone's house, steal something of very limited value to anyone except the owner.

The thing is, we can "what if" this to death with regard to the consequences of the registration. All's it does is divide us. I think we should just agree that the FAA is reaching well beyond their Congressional mandate and agree to fight that issue.

I agree they are over reaching.
But I'm certain that it is easier to conceal an RC plane, Tx, parts, than it is to do that with a full scale plane. And the point being that treating sport models the same as full scale is ridiculous with regards to registration.
I sure hope they get this BS figured out, because it is getting old very fast.
I have no problem with a $5 registration, but it isn't necessary, and also isn't going to solve their problem at all, only create them. Oh well. I guess some people are just ready to shrug their shoulders and just give in to these Big Brother tactics. I'm not one of them.

[beercamel]

Interesting interview about the Faa registration.. ...

http://financialsurvivalnetwork.com/2015/12/andrew-amato-beware-of-government-drone-registration/

[afml]

In this latest realm of confusion,
I received the following from the AMA:

Hi WES,

Episode 4 of AMA Air is now live. Chris Savage and Erin Dobbs invite members from AMA's Government Relations Team to discuss the FAA UAS registration.They address commonly asked questions and AMA's suggestion that members hold on registration while the AMA pursues legal and political remedies.

Watch the video at http://air.modelaircraft.org/

They state that C/L and FF are exempt from the FAA registration.
'May THE FORCE be with you'!
"Tight Lines!" and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Wes

[John Fitzgerald]

I will not be renewing my AMA.  To me they are weak and already defunct.   I only fly CL and that in my own farm field anyway.

[Steve Helmick]

Now that it's apparent that CL & FF fliers do not have to register with the FAA, could we PLEASE lock this thread and end the trauma? Pretty Please?  Steve

[Jim Kraft]

Not sure we should just blindly believe this until we see the rule from the FAA. Not that I have any doubts you understand. Men do make mistakes and the AMA is no different. It sounds logical, but when has our government ever been logical. And if we are excluded, who is going to explain it to the authorities that come and shut us down because we have no government number on our plane? They will say a model is a model and not know any difference. Gee, I hope I do not sound skeptical.

[Steve Helmick]

Well, sure...but I wasn't going to register already! And I just got off the phone with my brother (who flies a little R/C HLG) and he's not going to register, either. AMA might be wrong, but if they are, they've set themselves up for a nice lawsuit.  Steve

[Bill Heher]

So kites, inflatable gorillas, balloons tethered to car dealer lights, free flight planes, etc are all tethered to the ground like a CL model. Are they going to have to register with the FAA also?

When I had corresponded with the FAA during the NPRM I was told that control line planes were not defined a SUAS - because they were tethered to the ground, and did not operate in the National Airspace as defined by the regulations.

As far as people knowing the difference between an AMA number or a FAA issued number, most people who would harass you don't know the difference between "drone" or "multi-rotor"  and a control line model. A majority couldn't  spell out the full name of either organization. 
That doesn't mean they won't cause us trouble, but we stay in one spot and are easy to find. The other group in question - if something happens, they jump in the car and disappear...

[REX1945]

So if we register before the deadline the $5 charge is refunded and it covers our entire fleet.  The number has to be visible on "close inspection" and can be inside a hatch.  For a government agency this appears to be quite user friendly.  I really can't blame people for being concerned what with all the negative publicity about idiots and their drones.  Did anyone else see the utube by the young man who had the 9mm pistol on his drone?  Now he has a flame thrower roasting a turkey.  

Russel,

    The charge is to be refunded within 10 days of the request of registration.

     So, take $5 and multiply by 700,000 and you get the 3,500,000 of free float that the government gets out of the transaction.  Why it didn't have a charge of $ .01  is beyond me, since refunding money costs the economy (and the credit people) a lot more than $ .01.

     If I don't ever get my $ 5  back, do I sue the federal government ?

     Nowhere does the info I see say that the fed requires name and address on the plane.  So, they're running a lookup service to find out who's UAS it is.

      I think I'll use the Federal registration decal I made that is shown in my attachment.  Also, why do I need to renew it in three years ? What service are they providing for my money ?

Rex

[BillP]

So kites, inflatable gorillas, balloons tethered to car dealer lights, free flight planes, etc are all tethered to the ground like a CL model. Are they going to have to register with the FAA also?

When I had corresponded with the FAA during the NPRM I was told that control line planes were not defined a SUAS - because they were tethered to the ground, and did not operate in the National Airspace as defined by the regulations.

As far as people knowing the difference between an AMA number or a FAA issued number, most people who would harass you don't know the difference between "drone" or "multi-rotor"  and a control line model. A majority couldn't  spell out the full name of either organization. 
That doesn't mean they won't cause us trouble, but we stay in one spot and are easy to find. The other group in question - if something happens, they jump in the car and disappear...

What kind of "FAA" individual told you that? In reality ALL above ground airspace (outdoor only) in the USA is under FAA jurisdiction and you can get busted for infractions the moment a plane or whatever is flying leaves the ground...school yard, uncle Buck's back 40 acres, anywhere.  Also, the regs state "tethered" has to be registered and is specifically noted without regard to the others (drones).  But the FAA guy was right...cl planes are not specified as SUAS in the regs. But then again I couldn't find CL mentioned anywhere in the reg. Maybe the FAA's intent (spirit of the law) was not to include cl but all we have to date is the AMA's statements saying so. Is that opinion or fact?   

[Terrence Durrill]

So if we register before the deadline the $5 charge is refunded and it covers our entire fleet.  The number has to be visible on "close inspection" and can be inside a hatch.  For a government agency this appears to be quite user friendly.  I really can't blame people for being concerned what with all the negative publicity about idiots and their drones.  Did anyone else see the utube by the young man who had the 9mm pistol on his drone?  Now he has a flame thrower roasting a turkey.  

    Russell........the real issue is that outlaw, rogue, ironfisted government is shredding ALL of our rights and freedoms.  We should not cooperate with this tyranny, but we should fight it in every way possible. While a federal power grab at our control-line models is bad enough, if you look around, you will notice that the feds are into every aspect of your life.  They have overlooked nothing.  Personally, I am sick of it, having lived 75 years and having had a chance to know firsthand what freedom is.............stand up, fight or go down with the ship....the choice is yours.  

[aba183210]

Today I went to the Apollo XI field at the Sepulveda Basin park for the weekly stunt lesson (finally the Ringmaster could do loops but I recognize my particular one is too porky...might end up selling it).

Anyway, there was a pilots' meeting for everyone. One FAA rep explained the registration question.

According to the official, all of us are flying aircraft, no longer model airplanes. As a result all of us are to comply with the registration requirement as stated by the FAA. His definition of UAS is anything that flies-CL, RC. Registration applies to those models that exceed certain weight. We were also told that, after the registration deadline, anyone who did not register would be in violation of the law and sanctions would follow.

We were also give examples of how to attach the federal reg number to our planes.

The rep also mentioned that there have been many complaints of unsafe RC flying around the field, including one RC pilot who was performing aerobatics in the path of final approach of the full size jets, and drone pilots who insisted on taking photos of people.

So I guess that it's time to whip up the credit card to pay the Feds....

[Fred Cronenwett]

I am not surprised about Apolo XI flying field (flown there many times), the full size aircraft that come from or approach Van Nuys Airport fly over the RC/CL flying site.  Look at a google maps of Van Nuys Airport and you can see how close the RC/CL flying site is located to a very busy airport. They are probably under the 5 mile limit from the airport.

They are lucky the flying field has not been shut down, they better stay under the altitude limit for the RC models

Fred

[BillP]

So the AMA has been posting CL doesn't have to register...and an FAA guy on the registration phone line for questions told me CL doesn't have to register...but first he asked if a CL plane was one with lines to a handle. Now another FAA guy in CA says CL has to register because we are flying airplanes and not models.  Guess I need to go back to watching "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and forget about it.   

[Brett Buck]

So the AMA has been posting CL doesn't have to register...and an FAA guy on the registration phone line for questions told me CL doesn't have to register...but first he asked if a CL plane was one with lines to a handle. Now another FAA guy in CA says CL has to register because we are flying airplanes and not models.  Guess I need to go back to watching "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and forget about it.   

   This is exactly the problem with the AMA advice. They contend that CL is exempt because it is not a UAS, since it doesn't use a "ground control station". But that distinction is listed exactly nowhere in an FAA legal documentation, so it is up to individual FAA representatives to know that, or not.

    I am trying to get someone to acknowledge that they are pursuing a clarification *with the FAA* but have not received an answer.

     Brett

[Mike Griffin]

So the AMA has been posting CL doesn't have to register...and an FAA guy on the registration phone line for questions told me CL doesn't have to register...but first he asked if a CL plane was one with lines to a handle. Now another FAA guy in CA says CL has to register because we are flying airplanes and not models.  Guess I need to go back to watching "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and forget about it.   

Bill, you beat me to it.  This would be comical if it wasn't so stupid.  This whole thing is a circus.   Yes you do, no you don't, yes you do, no you don't.  IDIOTS