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Author Topic: FW 190 Project  (Read 8024 times)

Offline JHildreth

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FW 190 Project
« on: January 18, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »
   I just discovered that some pictures of my “secret” project have been posted on facebook, so I decided (with the prompting of Al Rabe and Mike Scott) to share some pictures of my new project.

   Two and a half years ago I decided I wanted to build something different from the usual stunt ship.  I have always liked semi-scale planes, but again I was looking for something different from the usual list of P51’s, Spitfires, Stukas, etc.  My other two requirements were I wanted to jig build the wing and fuse and I wanted to use laser cut parts.

   In my search I ran across a design by David McClellan published in the May 1980 issue of MAN.  Dave designed a Rabe inspired FW-190 D-9.  I liked the looks of the plane plus it meant that I would be working with a proven design.  Based on the published article, David did fairly well with the plane in 1978 and 79 winning several first and second place trophies.  This seemed like the plane I was looking for, so I started to work on the project.

        Dave’s design was based on the early Bearcat design by Al Rabe and used a “clam shell” fuse construction.  Full length, left and right fuse sides were molded. The formers were inserted into one side shell and the other shell was glued to the assembly.  This is essentially “building in the air” and I wanted to build my fuse on a jig to maintain the alignment to the greatest extent possible.  Therefore, I was obliged to re-engineer the fuse construction to accommodate a jig system.  I borrowed heavily from (translated – copied) Al’s Snaggletooth jig design for my project.  Due to the rear exhaust engine I will be using, I had to add a "tunnel" for the header/muffler.  I also made some relatively minor changes to the construction of the wing (David was already using a two tube wing jig like Al’s) to accommodate Al’s bellcrank mount and a molded leading edge.  I also changed the plywood LG mount to something similar to Bob Hunt’s LG mount system for the “Lost Foam” wing designs.  All of my modifications are to the internal structure.  I have maintained all the dimensions and shapes of David’s published design.

   During the first year and a half of developing the plans and then working with Walter Umland to develop the laser cutting files, I gained a great deal of respect for those who engineer the laser cut kits.  There is a lot of behind the scenes work that goes into them.  We did the first prototype cutting last June and the first revised cutting in September.  I am working on the construction of the Rev A parts.  So far the build is going far better than I had expected.  There will have to be another revision to correct some relatively minor issues, but the plane can be constructed with Rev A parts.  There are a lot of “first times” for me in this project, and I was greatly relieved when I was convinced that the plane can be built from the laser parts.  I am somewhat anxious, but looking forward to discovering how well the plane will fly.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 08:11:52 PM by JH »

Offline JHildreth

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Re: New Project
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 12:53:30 PM »
Here are a few more pictures that my first attempt to post rejected.

Joe

Offline TigreST

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Re: New Project
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »
You've gotta love the "Dora". 


Tony Bagley
Ontario, Canada

Online gene poremba

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Re: New Project
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 03:39:10 PM »

 This looks like an interesting build. Keep the pics coming. Its something different.....Gene

Offline James Holford

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Re: New Project
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 06:19:41 PM »
Not sure if it's the same one but here is the late Dave Roland's FW-190. Not sure which Model it is.

Altho the nose seems a little bit longer than say the A-6 or A-8...so may be in the  D series.




Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Jamie Holford
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: New Project
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 06:48:18 PM »
Joe,

You are my kinda guy.  John's FW-190 looks like it might be a Dave McCellen's "D" which, from knowing Dave, was probably a good flying, competitive airplane.

Al

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New Project
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 08:20:34 PM »
 WOW!  Welcome to the forum "JH", your 190 looks incredible!

 You may want to move this over to the "Building Techniques" section, but please keep us posted as you progress. y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: New Project
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 09:04:57 PM »
  This will be cool!! What are we talking about for power plant? I would love to do a Rabe Seafury or this model but will have to get much more disciplined about getting my shop in a more organized state!. I'll have to pull the mag and check out the article.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Motorman

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Re: New Project
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2017, 08:35:43 AM »
blank
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 04:18:03 PM by Motorman »

Offline JHildreth

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Re: New Project
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 02:38:35 PM »
       The picture of Dave Roland's 190 above is not a D series.  The D used an inverted V-12 inline engine instead of the radial used in the earlier series.  This is evident from the exhaust stacks.  The exhaust area on Dave's model is the dark square area over the leading edge of the wing.  The D series had a row of exhaust stacks from aft of the cowl back to the leading edge of the wing. Also, the D series had an air intake on the right side of the nose (generally) that I believe serviced the supercharger.  I suspect Dave's model is a replica of one of the earlier series but with an extended nose to provide enough moment without having to add a ton of nose weight.

       Someone asked about the engine for my plane.  I will be using a rear exhaust ROJett 61 for power, inverted with a header/muffler running down a tunnel under the nose and exiting below the wing.

       Another post requested additional pictures.  I have been taking a number of photos to document the construction so I can remember how I did it.  There are some idiosyncrasies in the construction sequence that I had to discover and I wanted to be sure I didn't forget what I did, so I photographed much of the construction.  I will post more as I have time.

       Thanks for the interest.

Joe

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: New Project
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 05:07:35 PM »
I liased with Dave while he ws doing this , a long time ambition of his . He drew it up / designed it himself . Tho with influance from Al et all .



Pity I didnt twist his arm at the time , as Id like to get hold of His Plans . Figuring my MB3 50 in , rather than stretched - just do 1/5 bigger to 60 in,
would be similar proportions . I get concerned about the vertical sepertion. Wing - thrust line - stab ,  >:( Daves is a fine looking Aeroplane .

Was a Build Thread here on stunt hanger , whilst he did it . Wound carbon thread in laminated moulded fuse , I recall .

Offline James Holford

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Re: New Project
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 05:15:01 PM »
When I visited Dave back in 2010 he had the Fuselage sheeted up....ready for fiberglass? maybe... cant remember...  All I really remember was his circle in the middle of the woods behind his home with a 1/4 of it cement that his dad laid out years ago. and his shop of Aircraft EVERYWHERE. Oodles of kits and many many many planes hung everywhere. A dream to have. He was a really gretat guy in the short time I got to know him
Jamie Holford
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Lafayette, La
AMA #1126767

Offline Robertc

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Re: New Project
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 05:32:36 PM »
I had a finished wing but no fuse and really liked David McClellan's FW 190 so I used the fuse and mated to my wing.  
Piped plane, but no dihedral.  Makes the gear a bit short.  I sure it will be incredible.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: New Project
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 05:46:07 PM »
The Man Himself , just to get us a bit less off track .  :-X


Offline JHildreth

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 08:18:15 PM »
Matt,

       That is a great picture.  I am sure that you had to downsize it in order to post it.  Would it be possible to get a copy of the picture in its original resolution?

Joe

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 07:04:18 AM »
Looks like an interesting build,keep the info and pics coming.

Offline phil c

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 02:31:21 PM »
I really like stunters that look like the original plane.  I don't like having to squint to make it look right.
phil Cartier

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 09:40:59 PM »
I have been wistfully studying the McClellan MAN build article for years but the construction was too daunting for me to consider it. Until now. Does this mean that Walter may be offering this as a kit in the future, assuming the necessary consents have been obtained from whoever now owns the rights to the model?


Offline Al Rabe

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2017, 01:07:25 PM »
The color photo of Dave's FWD-9 was taken by me at my house in Irving.  I was really proud of David's FW design, construction and competitive capability.  It is a shame that his (and my) construction details preceded jig built fuselages and laser cut parts.  It appears now that Joe has solved those issues.

The semi-scale white FW190 appears to be a nice semi-scale stunt version of the common FW190A-8.

There was some speculation about the German airplane that Dave modeled.  In Germany, in 1943, the Dora-9 was actually the result of a series of modifications to the standard FW190A-8. That airplane used stock wings, tail and basic fuselage structure of the A-8.  It was something of an assembly line modification using many A-8 parts. Kurt Tank's primary goal was to create a new fighter of significantly increased capabilities, particular in the ability to perform above 20,000'.  It would be a further development of the base A-8 series and would be called the Ta 152H.  The Dora-9 was an interim development on the road toward the Ta 152 but still a huge improvement over the standard A-8.  The Ta 152 was a late 1944 development and never reached combat in significant numbers.  The A-8's radial BMW 801D-2 engine was replaced with an inline Jumo 213A which lengthened the nose of the A-8 fuselage by 2'.  The weight of the inline Jumo 213A was balanced by lengthening the A-8 fuselage using a constant chord (1 ft 7 1/2 in) extension to the aft fuselage. There was also some appearance changes with the supercharger inlet ans a small increase in the width of the vertical fin.

All in all, Dave got it right.  Surely, this is the best possible competitive semi-scale stunt FW, correct in many small details right down to vertical ink lines on the rear fuselage just behind the German serial 17 which locates the extended fuselage modification.  Notice also the cowl flaps close behind the cowling inlet which, on the actual Jumo,  mounted a liquid-cooled annular radiator and an oil cooler.

I enjoyed reading again Dave's well written article and reviewing my copy of The  Focke-Wulf FW190 by Swanborough and William Green.

Al
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 07:12:46 PM by Al Rabe »

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2017, 01:44:19 PM »

The color photo of Dave's FWD-9 was taken by me at my house in Irving.  I was really proud of David's FW design, construction and competitive capability.  It is a shame that his (and my) construction details preceded jig built fuselages and laser cut parts.  It appears now that Joe has solved those issues.

The semi-scale white FW appears to be a nice semi-scale stunt version of the common FW190A-8.

There was some speculation about the German airplane that Dave modeled.  In Germany, in 1943, the Dora-9 was actually the result of a series of modifications to the standard FW190A-8.That airplane used stock wings and basic fuselage structure of the A-8 with the FW190D being something of an assembly line modification to substantially increase the power and altitude capability of the A-8.  The radial BMW 801D-2 engine was replaced with an inline Jumo 213A which lengthened the nose of the aircraft by 2'.  The balance was restored by lengthening the fuselage by installing a constant chord (1 ft 71/2in) extension to the aft fuselage. There was also some appearance changes with the supercharger inlet ans a small increase in the width of the vertical fin.

As semi-scale modeling goes, the extra length of the nose and aft fuselage visually offset to good effect, some of the relatively large wing and tail surface chords of a control line stunt ship. In other words, it was a really good choice for a semi-scale design.

All in all, Dave got it right.  Surely, this is the best possible competitive semi-scale stunt FW, correct in many small details right down to vertical ink lines on the rear fuselage just behind the German serial 17 which locates the extended fuselage modification.  Notice also the cowl flaps close behind the cowling inlet which, on the actual Jumo, liquid-cooled the annular radiator.

I enjoyed reading again Dave's well written article and reviewing my copy of The  Focke-Wulf FW190 by Swanborough and William Green.  And how do you like the raised cowling ahead of the cockpit which housed the MG 17 machine guns on the real FW?

Joe,  I'd be happy to supply the photo you are looking for in any size.

Al

Offline Robertc

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2017, 03:19:10 PM »
Keep posting progress pics.  Such a great looking plane

Offline dale gleason

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2017, 11:19:54 AM »
Joe brought his FW-190 to Don H's home where we were enjoying the DMAA Christmas Party. The plane in its jigs was set up in Don's garage where it was quite cool, being a cold winter's night. I was afraid that beautiful piece of craftsmanship might get damaged somehow, so I stayed a good distance from it. It IS quite a build, and Joe is very talented. Next thing you know, there were more in the cold garage than inside by the fireplace.

Al was certainly appreciative and everyone was totally impressed. Someone suggested finishing and putting it on display, never to fly. No, it's built to be flown, it will be fantastic.


dg


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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 11:33:34 AM »
congratulations for the beautiful subject, clean and clever craftsmanship!
will be following here!

Offline Rich Perry

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2017, 02:33:55 PM »
JH,  will this be available as a kit?  After all that work creating laser cut files, I would hope so.

Offline JHildreth

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2017, 10:09:09 PM »
Rich,

       Sorry it took me so long to reply.  It is way too soon to think about kitting the plane.  The version I am building is Rev A of my cutting files.  My first attempt at re-engineering the wing for laser cutting "re-engineered" it to the point that it couldn't be built.  I put the main spars at the same chord location where a jig support post needed to be.  Silly of me!  So, I had to move the spars; thus a Rev A wing.  There will have to be a Rev B to correct some issues (mainly with the fuselage) that I am patching in the current build.  Nothing as dramatic as my wing issue, but still important enough to require some changes.  Also, I would really like to get some air time on the plane to verify that I haven't done anything detrimental to the flying characteristics.  So, I believe it is a little premature to think about a kit.  I will keep your suggestion in mind.

Joe

Offline BillLee

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2017, 07:26:01 AM »
As I said at the DMAA Christmas party as we all admired Joe's work: This is what model aviatopn is all about! The design, the building, the creation of something beautiful and wonderful.

Somebody should publish Joe's work and send it to AMA to remind them what they are SUPPOSED to be about!

Bill
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Offline George Albo

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Re: New Project
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2017, 08:28:25 AM »
I liased with Dave while he ws doing this , a long time ambition of his . He drew it up / designed it himself . Tho with influance from Al et all .



Pity I didnt twist his arm at the time , as Id like to get hold of His Plans . Figuring my MB3 50 in , rather than stretched - just do 1/5 bigger to 60 in,
would be similar proportions . I get concerned about the vertical sepertion. Wing - thrust line - stab ,  >:( Daves is a fine looking Aeroplane .

Was a Build Thread here on stunt hanger , whilst he did it . Wound carbon thread in laminated moulded fuse , I recall .

Matt you can download a PDF copy of Dave McClellan's plans on Outerzone.co.uk and have them printed, OR you can order a full size plan ready to use from Tom Dixon.
Darkness is dispelled with acts of kindness and selfless good deeds.

Offline dale gleason

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2017, 11:33:37 AM »
I just cannot let David Roland's name and picture show up on SH without adding my appreciation to this man.His Father, Bill, was finishing his Engineering degree at La Tech (1956?) and me and about a dozen other kids were six to eighth graders in a loosely knit flying club in Ruston. David was a week old when I met him. David was the club "Mascot", he went to all the contests. Bill's Dad always had back-yard barbecue for us at his Alexandria, La., home after contests. It's hard to explain how wonderful that was to us kids with little money, relatively speaking, during those great times.

I left for Japan for three years, (Air Force brat) kept flying models, and neither saw nor heard about Bill and David until we crossed paths again in Baton Rouge. After fifty years, it was quite a reunion. The Rolands were great ambassadors for control line flying, they were really a hot team in Combat, but David's white FW is just one example of his building skills and devotion to modeling.

They're gone now, not forgotten, the good news is there are a lot of families even today with the same devotion, they're easy to spot.

Apologies for going off topic, Joe. .....again,
dg
 

Offline JHildreth

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2017, 07:56:34 PM »
George,

       I ordered my copy of Dave McClellan's plans and a copy of the article from MAN (or whoever is still the custodian of MAN's materials).  That was about two and a half years ago, but they may still be available.  I'd try an internet search.

Joe

Offline George Albo

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2017, 11:28:16 PM »
George,

       I ordered my copy of Dave McClellan's plans and a copy of the article from MAN (or whoever is still the custodian of MAN's materials).  That was about two and a half years ago, but they may still be available.  I'd try an internet search.

Joe

They are available through Tom Dixon http://tomdixon.tripod.com/plans3.htm   Plans are on left hand side for anyone thinking of building this. I got my plans from Tom in 1984. Plans were ruined by winds and rain during Hurricane Andrew in South Florida, got a fresh second set from him 2 years ago, still on the to do list!  You are doing an outstanding job with this plane. You brought back many fond memories with your build. Great work, and thanks for sharing!
Darkness is dispelled with acts of kindness and selfless good deeds.

Offline TigreST

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2017, 10:29:13 AM »
 Semi-related:




Tony Bagley
Ontario, Canada

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2017, 09:07:48 PM »
Hande Hocke .



WHOOPS .



Theres some thrilling encounterss late in this book , in D-9s / Ta 152s . Equal to Clostermans essays . By this little Faschist in his book ..



Was quite commonplace in Librarys in the 70s .

Was Dave Rolands I was trying to find the thread on , intrested in HIS drawings . Perhaps . H^^

Offline JHildreth

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2017, 08:09:06 PM »
Here are some additional pictures on my FW 190 D9 project.  All are of the fuselage mold forms.

Before I describe the pictures, I need to clarify something that both Walter Umland and I have been asked.  In a post by Mike Scholtes, 21 Jan, he asked if there was the possibility of a kit being offered by Walter in the future.  On 28 Jan I responded saying “It is way too soon to think about kitting the plane.”  It is a little soon, but to “come completely clean” on the subject, Walter approached me last year about offering a short kit like those he offers of Al Rabe’s designs.  I have no objection to doing this at an appropriate time.  Walter and I will have to decide when the appropriate time will be.  Due to the changes I have made to implement a jig build fuselage there will need to be a development period to identify and correct errors.  This is happening now, as you can see from the pictures I have posted.  As I stated in my 28 Jan post, I am working with Rev A parts now and have identified a number of additional corrections to be implemented in Rev B once I get the Rev A build completed.  I have hopes that there will not be a Rev C.  Now to the pictures.


The first picture is of all of the parts for both the top and bottom mold forms.

Second picture is of the assembled frames for both mold forms.

The third picture shows the foam filler blocks installed in the bottom mold form frame ready for shaping.

The forth picture shows both mold forms after shaping.  After shaping I apply three coats of polyurethane to help protect the foam.

Pictures five and six show two shell sections on the top form.  If you look closely you can see the edges of the left front and right rear sections under the Ace bandage wrap.

Picture seven and eight show the previously molded left rear shell and right front sections.

Pictures nine and ten show the previously molded sections pinned to the fuselage crutch.
 
This picture shows…….  I know, it is not of anything related to the FW 190.  It is my, almost ready to cover and paint, profile Cavalier.  John Simpson design (of course), Tom Morris kit (also of course).  OS Max 35 S on the nose.  Why am I showing this in this thread?  I have been away from flying for five years and I do not want to “relearn” on the 190.  I’ll be using the Cavalier to get back into the swing of things.  I have been working on it as I have been trying to puzzle out some construction details on the 190.  I will also be using the Cavalier as a test bed for using KlassKote paint.  I plan to use KlassKote military colors on the FW.  The fuselage and part of the wing and stab center sections of the Cavalier will be painted with KlassKote Monokote white while the rest will be covered with Monokote film.  I will try to use Monokote applied to both the fuselage and wing for trim.

Joe

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2017, 09:57:38 AM »
Been watching this over on SSW.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2017, 06:55:23 PM »
Joe,

That is some damn fine building!  Keep the pics coming as you go along.

Thanks

Doug
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: FW 190 Project
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2017, 09:25:55 PM »
Looking Good .

Good Idea to do a ' practise finish ' .
i used the auto spray gun on the poly clear on the P-51  >:( About TWICE as much on as it should have . At least 6 Oz where 3 would be enough .
Air Brush & plenty of thinner , next time . theres always sandpaper , I suppose . >:(


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