Author Topic: My Nats scale entry (Read 8647 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** May 10, 2016, 06:35:54 PM »

Well it looks like I wont be going to scale NATS this year. I cant afford the entry this year. All because of having to go to Indy 2 times, Once to judge stunt appearance and once for scale. I just cant swing the extra cost of the $70.00 entry fee and extra hotel fees. I might have been able to do it if they were together as it always has been. It seems to me rather outrageous.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2016, 06:52:00 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 10, 2016, 06:35:54 PM

Well it looks like I wont be going to scale NATS this year. I cant afford the entry this year. All because of having to go to Indy 2 times, Once to judge stunt appearance and once for scale. I just cant swing the extra cost of the $70.00 entry fee and extra hotel fees. I might have been able to do it if they were together as it always has been. It seems to me rather outrageous.

Robert,

What would be the total cost for that stay and participation at the NATS?

I would chip in, bet others would also.

Charles

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2016, 07:30:02 PM »

I've always felt that NATS participation would increase noticeably if they could somehow condense the overall time frame. Not an easy task I know, but not all of us are retired with all kinds of excess spare time and money.

RC Storick · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2016, 07:45:51 PM »

Quote from: Avaiojet on May 10, 2016, 06:52:00 PM

Robert,

What would be the total cost for that stay and participation at the NATS?

I would chip in, bet others would also.

Charles

Entry and stay around 300.00

Avaiojet · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2016, 08:35:02 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 10, 2016, 07:45:51 PM

Entry and stay around 300.00

Robert,

I want you to have that NATs opportunity.

I'm in for 40.00, that leaves only 260.00 to be had.

Amounts to nothing compared to what you give in time , effort and energy, so we can have this World Class Forum.

300.00
-40.00
-------------
260.00

A beginning.

Charles,

dave siegler · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2016, 08:50:22 PM »

I don't agree with Charles very often but I am in on this.

I think you should prepare a budget, and a plan. Post your practices etc.

I am in for $20 if it goes.

Just win baby!

Brett Buck · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2016, 09:42:49 PM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 10, 2016, 06:35:54 PM

Well it looks like I wont be going to scale NATS this year. I cant afford the entry this year. All because of having to go to Indy 2 times, Once to judge stunt appearance and once for scale. I just cant swing the extra cost of the $70.00 entry fee and extra hotel fees. I might have been able to do it if they were together as it always has been. It seems to me rather outrageous.

Bob, if you can't do both, I strongly suggest competing. There are plenty of people who can judge appearance, but there aren't that many scale competitors. Denny might be a bit irritated with me for suggesting it but it's a better contest overall with more competitors. No one want to see a willing competitor knocked out due to scheduling.

Brett

RC Storick · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2016, 09:57:03 PM »

well that's 60 as soon as I get it I will enter and hope to get the rest later. Just hit the donate button. I thank you guys for the support. That will be my third trip through INDY next month.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/paypal/

Rich Perry · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2016, 10:41:55 PM »

The scale powers that be moved their events earlier because of overfly complaints by the CL guys. The RC scale planes tend to be quite large, were distracting to those getting flown over, so it was decided to separate those events. I have been flying RC scale, but this year will be going to fly CL combat. So I have been somewhat close to the situation.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2016, 11:39:14 PM »

Quote from: Rich Perry on May 10, 2016, 10:41:55 PM

The scale powers that be moved their events earlier because of overfly complaints by the CL guys.

They have damn near a mile in which to maneuver, and yet time and again, they were out on the far side of the L-pad - DURING TOP 20 DAY. RC should *never, ever* overfly other people, but doing from carelessness and/or incompetence during a national championship event is beyond the pale.

It wasn't the distraction, although that was bad, the overflights (many directly over the heads of 100 spectators and competitors, time and again), but the safety issue. We know they can't fly worth a damn, and a fair number will crash, so please crash them into an empty field, note into a crowd.

Never mind that they eventually crashed, exactly as predicted for 45 minutes, right in the middle of the road between the L-pad and the farmhouse, a foot in front of a passing truck. I predicted it, Brenda tried to stop it, and yet, right in the middle of my vertical 8, at about 45 degrees (maybe 1/2 mile on the wrong side of the L-pad), I see some RC scale plane. Didn't effect anything and it was the high combined score for Top 20 day, but it's stunningly dangerous.

They were told repeatedly to stay on their own side of the road, which gives them about half the entire site over which to crash and burn. But they were completely incapable and there was NO sanction for violaters. We were close to going to Greg to have them DQed for safety code violations.

RC guys need to learn to fly, if they can't, stay home.

Brett

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2016, 04:51:36 AM »

We are going to lose other pilots to that were cross over pilots, these were pilots who flew in another CL event and then stay one or two extra days and then flew scale. There were two other pilots that did this not including Sparky. The fly over problem was real so much so that they shut down the L pad during the RC scale competition. the other thing going is that the Brodak contest is a week before the Nats so now if you attend the Brodak contest you only have 4 days to get to the nats.

To be honest the Brodak contest and the Nats are too close on the calendar for people to attend both, they are either going to attend one or the other. I spoke with one CL pilot who is always at the Nats and he is making the Brodak contest his first choice and will attend the Nats if possible.

Fred

RC Storick · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:06:57 AM »

Well I didn't expect any support and I am glad some have shown appreciation if you choose to help me fund my scale entry you can do so here http://stunthanger.com/smf/paypal/

Avaiojet · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:46:37 AM »

Quote from: RC Storick on May 11, 2016, 08:06:57 AM

Well I didn't expect any support and I am glad some have shown appreciation if you choose to help me fund my scale entry you can do so here http://stunthanger.com/smf/paypal/

Robert,

You of all people should have the support of everyone in your Forum.

Stunt Hanger is a great Forum and I'm glad to be part of it. Yes, that's why I contrubute so much, and will continue to do so.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Robert. Thank you.

I"M STILL HERE!

Forum members, even 10 bucks, it's pennies!

Let us all chip in and get Robert to the NATS!

Tell you what. Anyone who sends Robert 10 bucks or more, I'll send you a free set, two, of your AMA numbers!

Any color but I pick the font! No longer than 16" in length.

Not a bad deal, now you're getting something for your money.

Don't be shy, be giving!

Please, again, don't loose sight of the fact that if it wasn't for Robert, we wouldn't have this great Forum.

Charles

Edited, "I pick the font..."

tom brightbill · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:53:37 AM »

Done, good luck!

Rich Perry · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:41:02 AM »

Brett, if that is the case, then it is a good thing they moved scale to late June. The problem with RC scale, is the planes are very large, so the maneuvers become appropriately sized. When I attended the 2014 Scale Nats, the only crash was from a mid air. But RC should never overfly people.

pat king · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2016, 09:51:07 AM »

I am in. Give em hell!!

Pat

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2016, 10:39:58 AM »

Sparky - I will send you some $$ later today

By the way I am going to run the Shoestring you built in the Oct 2016 MA CL scale column

The kit is now available on the Brodak website if anyone wants to build one...

http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/sport-scale/shoestring-b-u-kit.html

Fred

john e. holliday · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2016, 11:57:08 AM »

Go have fun Sparky.

Jim Dincau · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2016, 12:21:05 PM »

I'm in for $20, AMA 814472, black please.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2016, 12:27:42 PM »

Your "Shoe" looks like it should do well. Therefore, I'm sending you my donation. Keep us posted on progress of the $$ situation.

Floyd

Will Hinton · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2016, 12:48:12 PM »

Having judged at the scale nats several times I love seeing bunches of airplanes and hate to have even one miss the chance! I'm in for twenty!

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2016, 01:01:03 PM »

LMAO! I love your stuff, Brett!

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 10, 2016, 11:39:14 PM

They have damn near a mile in which to maneuver, and yet time and again, they were out on the far side of the L-pad - DURING TOP 20 DAY. RC should *never, ever* overfly other people, but doing from carelessness and/or incompetence during a national championship event is beyond the pale.

It wasn't the distraction, although that was bad, the overflights (many directly over the heads of 100 spectators and competitors, time and again), but the safety issue. We know they can't fly worth a damn, and a fair number will crash, so please crash them into an empty field, note into a crowd.

Never mind that they eventually crashed, exactly as predicted for 45 minutes, right in the middle of the road between the L-pad and the farmhouse, a foot in front of a passing truck. I predicted it, Brenda tried to stop it, and yet, right in the middle of my vertical 8, at about 45 degrees (maybe 1/2 mile on the wrong side of the L-pad), I see some RC scale plane. Didn't effect anything and it was the high combined score for Top 20 day, but it's stunningly dangerous.

They were told repeatedly to stay on their own side of the road, which gives them about half the entire site over which to crash and burn. But they were completely incapable and there was NO sanction for violaters. We were close to going to Greg to have them DQed for safety code violations.

RC guys need to learn to fly, if they can't, stay home.

Brett

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2016, 02:01:51 PM »

Hi there. I am sorry I couldn't donate more, cause what you have given to us is far more than we could ever give you in return. I hope my small donation helps in some manner. Have a wonderful time and give 'em heck!

david beazley · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2016, 02:25:26 PM »

RC scale guys have traditionally been lousy flyers and in the old days used chintzy radios. They would spend countless hours building exquisite planes and try to save a couple sheckles on a cheap radio and end up quite predictably.

RC Storick · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2016, 02:45:14 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on May 10, 2016, 11:39:14 PM

They have damn near a mile in which to maneuver, and yet time and again, they were out on the far side of the L-pad - DURING TOP 20 DAY. RC should *never, ever* overfly other people, but doing from carelessness and/or incompetence during a national championship event is beyond the pale.

It wasn't the distraction, although that was bad, the overflights (many directly over the heads of 100 spectators and competitors, time and again), but the safety issue. We know they can't fly worth a damn, and a fair number will crash, so please crash them into an empty field, note into a crowd.

Never mind that they eventually crashed, exactly as predicted for 45 minutes, right in the middle of the road between the L-pad and the farmhouse, a foot in front of a passing truck. I predicted it, Brenda tried to stop it, and yet, right in the middle of my vertical 8, at about 45 degrees (maybe 1/2 mile on the wrong side of the L-pad), I see some RC scale plane. Didn't effect anything and it was the high combined score for Top 20 day, but it's stunningly dangerous.

They were told repeatedly to stay on their own side of the road, which gives them about half the entire site over which to crash and burn. But they were completely incapable and there was NO sanction for violaters. We were close to going to Greg to have them DQed for safety code violations.

RC guys need to learn to fly, if they can't, stay home.

Brett

I don't understand that either they have over 2/3rds of the site and can't help themselves in using the last 1/3rd. That crash you mentioned was close to hitting a car on the road. Big pile of wood but it was all bagged up and ready for pickup due to Monokote. LOL

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2016, 03:09:27 PM »

Robert, I put my 20 in. Hope you do well at the contest!

Brett, I know what you mean about those inept RC guys. AFAIC they all should fly RC gliders and learn how to use the rudder. Also energy management.
It amazes me to see one of "them" take off (ie., goose the throttle , torque left and jerk up elevator, narrowly missing the spectators) and yaw opposite to the turn they are trying to make....

Later, Jerry

Terry Caron · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2016, 06:55:36 PM »

I'm in, Sparky - hope you do well.

Terry

James Holford · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2016, 07:55:21 PM »

I'm in for a few bucks as well.. just gotta get to my PC! I one day hope to attend such a event as the NATS.

Dennis Leonhardi · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2016, 01:00:09 AM »

I'm in Sparky, anything we do for you here is darned small compared to the jewels your site provides us - give 'em hell!

Dennis

James Holford · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2016, 03:48:40 AM »

Sent

Paul Smith · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2016, 08:48:13 AM »

It looks like a single fee of $45 gets you into The Nats. Then each event has it's own entry fee:

CLPA $45.
Other CL events $10.
Scale $25 + $20 per additional.
FF $8
RC Pylon $65
RC Combat $15,
plus many more at different prices.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2016, 09:41:37 AM »

Though I may have misunderstood, one of the C/L FLYING judges told me that at least a year or two ago they were using the same STATIC judges for both to find the best qualified judges. If so then I guess that's why they took the C/L event with them during our Nats week. A shame. It's always been a highlight to go watch and I had been considering entering myself down the road as an add on event but now I doubt I'll make two trips to Muncie over it.

Dave

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #32 on:** May 12, 2016, 10:28:06 AM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on May 12, 2016, 09:41:37 AM

Though I may have misunderstood, one of the C/L FLYING judges told me that at least a year or two ago they were using the same STATIC judges for both to find the best qualified judges. If so then I guess that's why they took the C/L event with them during our Nats week. A shame. It's always been a highlight to go watch and I had been considering entering myself down the road as an add on event but now I doubt I'll make two trips to Muncie over it.

Dave

as a judge for Scale,, ( NOT at the NATS just to be clear) I almost think the best judges are ones who konw nothing about airplanes, becuase the basis for judging is not knowledge, its "look at the pictures and documentation provided with the model, how close does the model match the documentation"
knowledge clouds this because we airplane lovers KNOW what a Mustang or Bearcat looks like and we KNOW that 3 view is wrong, or that color is wrong, and we tend to want to bias our judging based upon our "knowledge" which is wrong for the event,, so I almost thing the most qualified judge would be someone who knows NOTHING about airplanes, but has a keen eye for detail..
My two cents worth,,

that said, Pat and myself who judge scale at the regionals are both avid airplane nut jobs, so we dont fit what I propose to be the perfect judge,,

Allen Goff · « **Reply #33 on:** May 12, 2016, 11:08:02 AM »

When making remarks and statements you NEED to have your facts correct. There is only one basic entry fee..........
Yolanda will gladly and happily take your entry fee over the phone. And try and remember she does not need your ...........she is there to help you.
On the issue of separating c/l scale from RC scale, c/l scale would end up like some of the other event that are shrinking in numbers. NASA is our friend, we could not afford to run our Nats without one scale body.
One last thing, we need judges who has some knowledge of airplanes, or we cold just open it up to everyone build a ringmaster and call it what ever you wish. That's not Scale.

And all this comes off of Sparkys original post, "My Nats scale entry". That is one good looking scale aircraft Robert, can't wait to see it. Any help I can offer don't hesitate to call.

Blessing
Allen

RC Storick · « **Reply #34 on:** May 12, 2016, 11:49:18 AM »

Quote from: Allen Goff on May 12, 2016, 11:08:02 AM

And all this comes off of Sparkys original post, "My Nats scale entry". That is one good looking scale aircraft Robert, can't wait to see it. Any help I can offer don't hesitate to call.
Blessing
Allen

I will need lots of help as I have never flown scale. I have great documentation and I have built the airplane well. It flies good I just know nothing of what the pattern is or how to implement it. If your at Brodaks you can show me the ropes.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #35 on:** May 12, 2016, 11:56:03 AM »

As both a commercialy licensed pilot and a scale judge at the nats, I feel knowledge is essential to being a good judge. How else are you going to accurately judge the flying part? That is where the boys are seperated from the men. Does a Cub fly that fast, ever? Or can a Buster actually do a lazy eight? Or....? there are so many uninformed as to which flying manuevors should be used as options that a good working knowledge of what any airplane can and CANNOT do is a real plus, at least in my opinion and experience. Just my two cents worth.

RC Storick · « **Reply #36 on:** May 12, 2016, 11:58:21 AM »

Quote from: Will Hinton on May 12, 2016, 11:56:03 AM

As both a commercialy licensed pilot and a scale judge at the nats, I feel knowledge is essential to being a good judge. How else are you going to accurately judge the flying part? That is where the boys are seperated from the men. Does a Cub fly that fast, ever? Or can a Buster actually do a lazy eight? Or....? there are so many uninformed as to which flying manuevors should be used as options that a good working knowledge of what any airplane can and CANNOT do is a real plus, at least in my opinion and experience. Just my two cents worth.

Seeing that I will only have 1 contest ever flown before the NATS I will not be doing anything crazy. Least amount for best score.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #37 on:** May 12, 2016, 12:15:16 PM »

Sparky, sounds like you are in a big learning curve. If your plane flies like it should and is ready, watch the other competitors and their flights. Of course the Shoestring does not have retractable landing. bombs dropping and I don't believe flaps. You do have throttle control and can do all the basic stuff a Shoestring does. Smoothness is what is going to help you. Now do you have enough to go enjoy yourself and have fun.

RC Storick · « **Reply #38 on:** May 12, 2016, 12:21:13 PM »

It is ready. Just add battery. I put a spinner and prop on it that I will fly with. There is no swapping parts for static then flight as some do. It's electric so no wondering if it will start. It flys well in 10-15 MPH wind so it should not be a problem.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #39 on:** May 12, 2016, 12:23:42 PM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on May 12, 2016, 09:41:37 AM

Though I may have misunderstood, one of the C/L FLYING judges told me that at least a year or two ago they were using the same STATIC judges for both to find the best qualified judges. If so then I guess that's why they took the C/L event with them during our Nats week. A shame. It's always been a highlight to go watch and I had been considering entering myself down the road as an add on event but now I doubt I'll make two trips to Muncie over it.

Dave

You have been misinformed. There are completely independent sets of judges for C/L and R/C Scale. What you may have heard is that R/C may use separate judging teams for Static and Flying. C/L uses the same team for both aspects.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #40 on:** May 12, 2016, 12:55:17 PM »

Quote from: Will Hinton on May 12, 2016, 11:56:03 AM

As both a commercialy licensed pilot and a scale judge at the nats, I feel knowledge is essential to being a good judge. How else are you going to accurately judge the flying part? That is where the boys are seperated from the men. Does a Cub fly that fast, ever? Or can a Buster actually do a lazy eight? Or....? there are so many uninformed as to which flying manuevors should be used as options that a good working knowledge of what any airplane can and CANNOT do is a real plus, at least in my opinion and experience. Just my two cents worth.

I must retract part of what I said, I was more thinking in terms of static judging,, as to flight judging, most certainly knowing that a Piper cub will not do a round loop ( just a random example) is important,, but for static, you ONLY judge based upon the provided documentation,, using personal knowledge goes outside the parameters outlined for judging,, or at least that is how I read the rules,,,

Paul Smith · « **Reply #41 on:** May 12, 2016, 01:13:47 PM »

The short menu of options contains MANY that are inappropriate for most models.

For example, even the taxi lap is wrong for WWI fighters without throttles. They just cut the engine, fluttered in and the mechanic pushed or towed it off the field. Movies of the GeeBee and Howard Ike show the same thing. No taxi, no T&G, no overshoot. No brakes, no tailwheel, no ground steering. The mechanic just pointed the plane at takeoff area and let go.

I think judges who apply personal knowledge of one particular airplane are cheating some contestants while giving the benefit of the doubt to prototypes they have never seen.

When I judge I simply apply what I see to what The Rule Book says.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #42 on:** May 12, 2016, 01:45:33 PM »

You got my $25

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 12, 2016, 01:56:39 PM »

and my $20

Will Hinton · « **Reply #44 on:** May 12, 2016, 02:17:54 PM »

Mark, your parameters are certainly correct. The fact that several "rookie" judges have static scored a model much the same as an experienced one is proof of that. But we do use the same set of judges at the nats as static and flight, so it gets a little more critical.

RC Storick · « **Reply #45 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:02:53 PM »

In front of the house

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #46 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:18:11 PM »

I know you dont want to Sparky, but that prop really destroys the illusion, I would really really consider carving a scale prop for it,, your going, you may as well maximize your chances,, its a great build and deserves to have a great shot

RC Storick · « **Reply #47 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:26:41 PM »

The real prop was aluminum and this one is the correct shape

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #48 on:** May 12, 2016, 08:55:09 PM »

It's typical to have a static prop and a flying prop in CL scale

Fred

RC Storick · « **Reply #49 on:** May 13, 2016, 07:26:52 AM »

Quote from: Rusty Pieper on May 13, 2016, 07:04:48 AM

Sparky, what is the status? Did you get enough to go?

I have entered and plan on going. I thank everyone for the support. I am a little short yet but I should be able to swing it.