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Author Topic: Model Aviation  (Read 3263 times)

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Model Aviation
« on: August 25, 2016, 10:06:44 PM »
Hey!  I just received the new Model Aviation a few minutes ago and started to toss it in the trash can when I noticed the usual Multi Rotor ads were not on the back.  So I opened it and surprise, surprise, there are very few Multi Rotor ads inside.  Wonder of wonders...it must be election time.  Either that or the great multi rotor fad is fading already?  Probably not but it is a wonder!

Maybe I'll at least look at this one!

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 05:54:30 AM »
Multi-rotor is a fad. I don't know of many modellers who truly favour these helicopters, D>K except for a few cool videos made from multi-rotors of CL aircraft stunting the circle. ;D

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 09:28:52 AM »
Yeah, but the cover made me sick to my tummy. A Valkyrie with an electric motor stuck on the nose. Oh the shame never ceases to amaze me. Clouds without water. Oceans without fish. Do I seem a bit judgemental? So it would seem to the untrained among us. Have we lost our first love? S?P
Jim Kraft

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 09:50:58 AM »
Keep the past, move with the present.
                                                 Tao

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 10:43:54 AM »
Yeah, but the cover made me sick to my tummy. A Valkyrie with an electric motor stuck on the nose. Oh the shame never ceases to amaze me. Clouds without water. Oceans without fish. Do I seem a bit judgemental? So it would seem to the untrained among us. Have we lost our first love? S?P

Jim - WELL SAID!
I agree 100%.

    Bob Z.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 10:56:17 AM »
Keep the past, move with the present.
                                                 Tao


“It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” - Charles Darwin

Just sayin' ...

Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 11:39:24 AM »
I have not unwrapped my issue yet.   Just got to the last issue and seen the report on the Ringmasters in the Old Time section.  But we have to remember that some areas of our great land done like the noise of a good running IC engine.  Even FF is RC controlled in some areas.  But when the day comes that I can't fire up a good Fox, McCoy, K&B or any other IC engine in my back yard I will call it quits.   Getting ready for balloon burst and fun fly at new Topeka KS grass circle. 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 09:44:10 AM »
One can push this "Old Timer Authentic" idea too far.  A Goldberg Valkyrie with an electric motor doesn't detract from the majesty of seeing a big free flight (even if R/C) floating along, as it did in 1939.  Electric provides convenience and trouble-free flying, allowing concentration on the flight, rather than coaxing an engine to run reliably.

You might gag if you could see my 1939 Korda Wakefield model with electric motor, and R/C.  In the air, it still looks great (and it doesn't fly away--but lives to fly another day).

Floyd
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 11:43:56 AM »

“It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” - Charles Darwin

Just sayin' ...

Dennis

Who wants to survive if everything you value is lost.  Sorry, I'll go down fighting for what I believe in! 

Randy Cuberly
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Tucson, AZ

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 12:29:45 PM »
And the atheist went to God and told him he could make man also. God said "go for it". The atheist went to find some dirt. God said, no. make your own dirt.
Jim Kraft

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 06:32:34 PM »
Yeah, but the cover made me sick to my tummy. A Valkyrie with an electric motor stuck on the nose. Oh the shame never ceases to amaze me. Clouds without water. Oceans without fish. Do I seem a bit judgemental? So it would seem to the untrained among us. Have we lost our first love? S?P

Jim, If they did put a gas motor on it it would be a DA50! Just because they can, I think. I see it all of the time.
Chris...

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 08:05:40 PM »
Yeah, but the cover made me sick to my tummy. A Valkyrie with an electric motor stuck on the nose. Oh the shame never ceases to amaze me. Clouds without water. Oceans without fish. Do I seem a bit judgemental? So it would seem to the untrained among us. Have we lost our first love? S?P

Who wants to survive if everything you value is lost.  Sorry, I'll go down fighting for what I believe in! 

Randy Cuberly


I confess to being a slow learner, so please help me:

What exactly is "lost" if the AMA endorses/includes multirotors?

What is the problem if the total number of people flying models of one sort or another is greatly increased thanks to available electric power?

I could understand the uproar if some authority dictated we all could only fly Valkries with electric motors.

I can't understand why some seem to get a bind in their shorts because others are allowed to fly them, while we fly the models we prefer.

Can someone explain why I should be bothered by another flyer's choices?


 ??? ??? ???
Dennis


Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 09:28:25 PM »

I confess to being a slow learner, so please help me:

What exactly is "lost" if the AMA endorses/includes multirotors?

What is the problem if the total number of people flying models of one sort or another is greatly increased thanks to available electric power?

I could understand the uproar if some authority dictated we all could only fly Valkries with electric motors.

I can't understand why some seem to get a bind in their shorts because others are allowed to fly them, while we fly the models we prefer.

Can someone explain why I should be bothered by another flyer's choices?


 ??? ??? ???
Dennis

I guess it's a matter of integrity... at least that's the way I see it.  You of course are entitled to see it any way you, like because if you have to ask you certainly wouldn't understand my answer!

Randy Cuberly



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Tucson, AZ

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2016, 10:51:20 PM »


Randy, help me understand!   :):):)

A few houses away from me lives a neighbor who like old cars.  One of his prized vehicles is a very nicely done old coupe ... with a nice, big, modern engine.

So: is he a man of lesser integrity, a fraud, or just one of us old guys who likes old cars?!?

I'm glad you like the oldies just as they were ... generally with many shortcomings.  I absolutely love many of the old designs and kits - shucks, I'd pay way too much for a Kenhi Panther kit if one came along, or even a Kenhi Wildcat.

But no way would I build it as designed.  Think I've learned a bit since my first Wildcat about 65 years ago ...

To each his own.  Glad you have a preference and contribute so much here!


 y1 y1 y1
Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2016, 07:00:30 AM »
If you opened it, perhaps you missed Bubba Hunt's column, which was given over to Uncle Jimby's replay of the F2B World Champs in Perth?

I thought it was excellent reading. Kudos to Jimby for a job well done! There were still too many quadrotter (sic) advertisements for me.  y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2016, 10:59:50 AM »
Well, I did say I was  S?P. I was just stating how I feel, not how you or anyone else feels. Every one has a right to their own opinion. I just stated mine. If yours is different, then that is your opinion. I have always been a motor head and as such is probably what brought me in to model aviation in the first place. I always buy engines and then look for a plane to put them in, instead of building a plane and looking for a motor for it. I know I am backwards from most, but that is just me.

I can see the advantages of electric, but to me they do not out weigh the fun of IC. It just somehow seems wrong to me to put an electric motor on something that was meant for at least an IC engine. Preferably a good spark engine. But as I said, that is my opinion. Do what ever floats your boat. As you say, why should you care what I think. Or what should I care what you think. Opinions are just that. I stated mine. Of course that will always cause controversy.

I'm not putting any one down for what they do. It's not my way or the hiway. But I do have an opinion.

It seems as though when ever we get something new we loose something in the process. When the big hobby conglomerates took over we lost the local mom and pop hobby shops because they could not compete with big money. I miss those as they were a great place to hang out and drool over all the neat stuff and tell lies with other modelers. The smells and sights in those places inspired our imaginations and we aspired to do something greater. My first encounter with a hobby shop was where guys were running old ignition engines in the back room with the back door open to let the fumes out. Those things stay with us for years, sometimes dormant, but never the less they are there.

So yeah, I am probably just a throw back to those years as that is what got me in the hobby to begin with. I miss the old days where every one built their own planes and chewed glue off there fingers. We learned things from building that you can not get any other way. Besides keeping us off the streets and doing something constructive to keep our selves busy. It was where dreams were made and helped us in many other ways.

I became a trouble shooter for a petroleum pipeline and much of the perseverance of building models and fixing engines helped me to do my job the same way. You learn things from modeling that help in all other areas of life.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 11:41:41 AM by Jim Kraft »
Jim Kraft

Offline Steve Thompson

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2016, 11:39:34 AM »
I wanna see someone build a quad rotor with a wood frame, full dope finish, and four glow engines.  Maybe old full-smogger Foxes running on 29% oil.  Oh the sound!  Oh the oil plume!  Would be great for sky-writing and mosquito control.  Would that be a model airplane? 

Offline Warren Wagner

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2016, 11:41:04 AM »
Yeah, but the cover made me sick to my tummy. A Valkyrie with an electric motor stuck on the nose. Oh the shame never ceases to amaze me. Clouds without water. Oceans without fish. Do I seem a bit judgemental? So it would seem to the untrained among us. Have we lost our first love? S?P

Jim,

You were not the only one with that initial reaction....a free flight Valkyrie with a large ignition engine (not motor) up front, was and still is an Icon representing the early days of model aviation.  To see an electric motor on the nose of the Valkyrie was a shock to my senses.
If I remember correctly, this version of the Valkyrie was around 200% of the original, giving a wing span of around 20 feet.  Matching
a power plant to that size model was probably a bit of a challenge.   Most likely, to be somewhat period correct, it would have to be
a single cylinder gas engine, which would be fine but would require some knowledge in matching cubic inches to airframe weight.

Electric motors are extremely powerful (I fly them both in RC and in CL), and could easily be matched to the weight of the airframe.
So, I understand the decision in going electric in this case, by IMHO, it will be missing something as it flys overhead, making a buzzing sound that makes me want to reach for a can of "Raid".   <g>

But, it's still great that in this hobby (sport) we have many varied choices and are free to make those choices.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner
Clay NY
Warren Wagner
AMA 1385

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2016, 11:59:47 AM »
Jim...you are NOT backwards--- to me

At The tender age of 4, I saw an Army Radio Controlled Target (ARCaT) take off to be shot at by a Nike Hercules.... I still have one of the propellers from one
That year my dad built his first airplane powered by a McCoy 29 or 35 spark Ignition engine

 A few years later he and I built Heath kit stuff, and I gained a interest a curiosity for electrons---- but already had the life long interest in all things Internal combustion

Eventually my career path followed both those interests and curiosities

I do not dislike electron powered airships but do have a significant bis to IC

The backwards thing...

I too, acquired many engines and then went searching for a way to get them doing the work in the air.... and like some few of us... I have a few that will never see the nose of a airplane----- but I still smile immensely when I am bored and bench run the bugger.

AMA and multi Rotors.
I am agnostic or at least ambivalent... I personally think it an abomination to ignore the AMA's charter to promote the BUILDING and Flying of MODEL aircraft. ...BUT I do see how some citizen's interest could be even be a ST 90 on a Brick or Lawn mower as a flying craft

In my mind many (not all) ARFs are not really MODELING.  I do have a few....BUT I would never try to con someone to think I actually built the aircraft

And although there are many real world multi rotor aircraft...(Like a CH-47) ..I (except for commercial operations) think the Quad/ Hex/Octo copter craze is a fad and really not worthy of the DOT/FAA sanctions that DID impact ALL of us

OTOH____First Person View (FPV) does have a potential for great harm, and I wish I could trust the DOT/FAA to focus on this technology...NOT
I noticed the rule making focused on lesser and non threat things....what a bunch of inept drones...yes a pun!

Like a few noted here... not much difference of the DRONES and any other model of a flying craft

Seems to me we had a similar conniption fit with 3D flying...(I did) and insane capability RC helicopters. Much of these craft did much more than a real world airplane or helicopter is capable of

I may, one day embrace electric as instant and easier...but for now... GLOW makes me smile so much more than my store bought electric toys

I do think (personally) ----the top level USA and World Champs, who exploit EITHER fuel or elctrikery, should be relieved of any bis rules...and allowed to pursue what ever THEY think the best power system that they desire to properly form the fastest speed, most kills, exact landing location, or or perfect pattern shapes

I also think, for ANY TOP championship...THEY must find a venue that allows ALL motive systems NO MATTER the noise level

LAST time I was at a REAL air race or Unlimited Hydro plane race...they did NOT "require" electric or mufflers...

I think same in Bonneville... RUN WHAT CHA BRUNG.....
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2016, 12:15:15 PM »
Would an old Forster .99 have powered the enlarged Valkyrie?   As  a pre teen I used to see the ads for the Forster engines and always wondered how it would be to have the .99 and run it.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2016, 02:43:06 PM »
For the record: I owned about 350 nitro engines at one time.  Almost all of which I ran, not displayed.  And blended fuel for said engines, which were sold in several Midwestern states.  In the last 16 years, I've probably cleaned up and sold on the internet/eBay close to a thousand engines.

So I like nitro engines!

I also like epoxy glues & paints, iron-on coverings, modern radio systems, the better metallurgy in today's engines, CA adhesives, glass-filled props, sharing on the internet like this, yada yada.

Looking at all the changes over the years, I much prefer modeling today over 65 years ago.  Even when someone chooses electric power!


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Bart Klapinski

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2016, 03:25:02 PM »
Hey Randy, I think I finally was able to get on this site. No, don't ask. Let me know by phone please.

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Model Aviation
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2016, 03:35:33 PM »
Hi Bart.  I enjoyed talking with you the other day while visiting Eric.  Good to see you here.

Mike


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