Jr Nobler Engine Set Up

[Luscombe1940]

Hi,

Newbie here.

I have been away from modeling for quite a few years. Am getting back into CL flying and have a NIB Jr Nobler kit I picked up many years ago. I plan on using it for templates and will scratch build a new plane with new balsa. I am going to build it over the winter months and would like some input on the engine choice.  I have an Enya 15 IV RC engine that I am considering for use; I would have to set the throttle wide open or find a CL NVA that will work in the engine. Also have a Veco 19 CL I could use.

I want to be able to fly the pattern on this plane at the same speed as a larger 35 size Nobler. Not looking for a speed demon. I have read that the Veco will cause a nose heavy condition not conducive to stunting. Not sure about the Enya, it may be about the same weight. Are either of these engines good candidates for this plane to allow me to learn and fly the stunt pattern at a slow speed?

If not, what engine would be a good candidate? I have not seen any new 10 size engines available. Brodak has a 15 for CL but it looks like a high speed engine and weighs about the same as the Veco 19.

Any input is welcome. I do not have any vintage 10 size engines in my stash and have not had much success with evil bay purchases in the past.

Thanks guys!

Gary

[wwwarbird]

 As a new "retread" you'll also want an engine that will be user friendly, easy starting with dependable and consistent run characteristics. I feel many people severely overthink the simple things in this hobby, keep things simple as you get back up to speed.
 I don't recall the exact specs of the Jr Nobler but built at a reasonable (light) weight I'd think an FP.15 or .20 would be about perfect. I've got a Brodak .15 and have never been real impressed with it. It's dimensionally larger than other .15's and is certainly no powerhouse. I feel the OS's make a little more power and run better. They can be found fairly often on Ebay or if you ask in the Classifieds you may find one here on the forum.
 If you want to use your Enya contact Jim Lee here in the Vendors Corner, he can set you up with a very nice venturi and needle valve assembly for a reasonable price. I can't speak of the Veco .19 because I've never ran one. If they run as well as the old Veco .61 I used to have I wouldn't be afraid to use it either.

[Luscombe1940]

Thank you Wayne!

i will get with Jim on the NVA. I am trying to keep things simple and also try and use some of the vintage engines I have if it makes sense.

Appreciate your help. I will post my build log when I get started.

Thanks,

Gary

[Garf]

I believe it was designed for the Fox 15X. I believe the Cox Medallion 15 would work well also. Any light plain bearing .15 should work. Most .19 engines are too heavy.

[Brett Buck]

I want to be able to fly the pattern on this plane at the same speed as a larger 35 size Nobler. Not looking for a speed demon. I have read that the Veco will cause a nose heavy condition not conducive to stunting. Not sure about the Enya, it may be about the same weight. Are either of these engines good candidates for this plane to allow me to learn and fly the stunt pattern at a slow speed?

     The Veco 19 (and even more so, the 20FP) is *fantastically* too much power for such a small airplane. The airplane is at the high end of the range for competitive 1/2A stunt planes. It was designed for relatively weak baffle-piston engines like the OS Max III 15, Fox 15 slantplug*, even a Cox Sportsman 15, that sort of thing. Mine had an OS 25 S baffle-piston engine, and it was far more than it needed. It will fly reasonably well with any of those but it's *tiny*, far too small for any modern 15.

   To be honest, if you want a relatively slow time and good stunt performance, you probably need a larger airplane and certainly not one with a vintage engine. Build it and enjoy it for what it is but if you want reasonable lap times by current standards you need something no smaller than a Nobler or the like, and better, something even bigger with a modern quality engine.

     Brett

[RC Storick]

When I was younger and starting out I had a Jr. Nobler with a Veco .19 It worked flawlessly for years.

[GregArdill]

Our club was gifted a Nobler Jnr, and we installed an Enya 15 III (open exhaust). We ran it using 5%nitro swinging  an 8X4 prop.

On 52' X .012" lines a young bloke who was coming to the field was able to progress from solid wing trainer to loops. Then he stopped coming to the field. The model was capable of close to a full pattern. I'm not sure how it'd go trying a clover 

Enya spares are readily available from Enya in Japan, good prices & excellent service.

Good luck with yours.

[Dave_Trible]

Of the choices you mention I'd use the Enya .15.  As a teen I built a Jr. Nobler and put a greenhead K&B .23 in it with a Grish 3 blade 8-6 prop.  On 60 ft. .012 lines it was pure enjoyment to fly.  It was said it flew better than a full size Nobler.  I flew it a while then sold it to a lad who learned the pattern and flew his first contests with it.  I have several .23s now and plan a repeat build for a grandson.  We have another Jr. Nobler in the fam I put a Fox .15 in but has sat idle for a few years.  If that proves more for hurling than flying I'll put a .23 in it.  Understand though what's been said about modern engines is true- anything larger than a .15 may be too much.  The .15 Enya sounds about right.... Lose the muffler or it will be nose heavy.

Dave

[John Park]

Our club was gifted a Nobler Jnr, and we installed an Enya 15 III (open exhaust). We ran it using 5%nitro swinging  an 8X4 prop.

On 52' X .012" lines a young bloke who was coming to the field was able to progress from solid wing trainer to loops. Then he stopped coming to the field. The model was capable of close to a full pattern. I'm not sure how it'd go trying a clover 

Enya spares are readily available from Enya in Japan, good prices & excellent service.

Good luck with yours.

It ought to fly consecutive clovers until the tank runs out - I scratch-built one many years ago for an OS-Max .15-III (same fuel, prop. and lines as above) and the only manoeuvre I couldn't manage at all was the hourglass.  I always chickened-out on the third corner - it just felt too light on the lines.  It wasn't too happy on the overhead eights either, but in those days I knew even less about trimming than I do now...

Regards
John

[Carl Cisneros]

Gary;

here is the e-bay store for Enya engines and parts and such.
Billy is a great person to deal with and I believe he just might have the parts to convert the motor over to CL use.
I have gotten Enya parts from him and he is very promt for shipping and answering any Enya questions.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/shtterman/m.html?item=291608004459&hash=item43e531076b%3Am%3AmFOUzj6T5bXFBWQIz8qKCDg&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


Carl

[Luscombe1940]

Gary;

here is the e-bay store for Enya engines and parts and such.
Billy is a great person to deal with and I believe he just might have the parts to convert the motor over to CL use.
I have gotten Enya parts from him and he is very promt for shipping and answering any Enya questions.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/shtterman/m.html?item=291608004459&hash=item43e531076b%3Am%3AmFOUzj6T5bXFBWQIz8qKCDg&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562


Carl

Carl,
Thanks for the reference. I will contact Billy. I don't mind the Ebay route so long as I know who I am dealing with. I have been disappointed with Ebay purchases more often than not.

My plans for CL include a larger plane or two. I have a number of vintage engines, Fox 36X, Fox 36 that needs crank & P/L set,not sure of parts availability, K&B 35RC an a McCoy 35 Redhead that I would like to use. The full size Nobler will for sure be in the mix. Not sure which 35 size to start with, prolly. There is a CL club in Milwaukee and I will visit one of their monthly meetings to see if I can find a mentor. Much has changed in the hobby since I left it. I am thankful for forums and passionate folks willing to help new comers and retreads like myself.

Gary

[Avaiojet]

Gary,

Welcome!

I'll be looking forward to your build.

"Luscombe." I learned to fly in one back in 1964. All aluminum and a real nice aircraft.

Charles

[peabody]

Brodak offers a Nobler Jr. kit....

[Brett Buck]

Our club was gifted a Nobler Jnr, and we installed an Enya 15 III (open exhaust). We ran it using 5%nitro swinging  an 8X4 prop.

On 52' X .012" lines a young bloke who was coming to the field was able to progress from solid wing trainer to loops. Then he stopped coming to the field. The model was capable of close to a full pattern. I'm not sure how it'd go trying a clover 

    Properly trimmed, it will have no problem with any part of the pattern. Mine flew fine and I had no issue with it.  t's actually a lot closer to the later Aldrich "Magnum" design than the original Nobler, with a substantially higher aspect ratio and an even thinner wing.

     It just wasn't the sort of "slow" flight that was originally envisioned. It's a mere 270 square inches, and the really good 1/2A stunters are around 200-240 square inches with thicker wings.  Even a McCoy 19 is more than sufficient power. It's one of the pretty standard issues with the "jr. version of all the famous models - built around engines that are weak but shake a lot, so they are built much more robust than a typical .049 model. If you designed a 1/2A around this size, you would shoot for about 12 ounces all-up, but the junior will end up about twice that.

    Brett

[Garf]

From the posts, the Fox 15 steel fin should work well too. I have 3 I will never use.

[Bill Little]

Hi Gary,

I have had a Jr. Nobler for years now.  It is an original kit, covered all in monocoat and uses a Fox .15X (slant plug) with an 8-4 Top Flite prop.  It is a very nice flying small model.  I run the engine in a wet 2 style which is prevalent today.

Is the Veco .19 the original plain bearing .19 or the later Ball Bearing version?  If it is the BB version, save it for a larger model.  If it is the plain bearing version, it should work well.

Personally, I would shoot for building it light and using the Enya .15.  It will be plenty powerful for the model!  It will not fly slow and stunt like the bigger models, but it will not appear to be as fast as a bigger model flying the same lap times.  Most of all, have fun as you get back into this!

Bill

[Garf]

I believe that the Veco .19 plain bearing is too much weight and power for the Jr Nobler. If you need power, try the TD 15. I have a Medallion 15 and a TD 15 shaft and a twin port cylinder that will fit it. That would pull it.

[wwwarbird]

I feel many people severely overthink the simple things in this hobby,

 ...like I said.

 We're not talking about a big-time package here. Just keep your build straight and at a reasonable weight, mount up that Enya or Veco and go have fun with it.

[Steve Scott]

The TF Jr Nobler was my 2nd CL build after my Ringmaster.  I flew it with baffle piston .19s - first a McCoy then a Fox.  I liked the Fox better as it was lighter.  Still had more than ample power. 

The problem with the JN and its upright engine is ground clearance - or lack thereof.  A 9" prop was simply too big.  A lightweight non-schneurle .15 with an 8-4 prop will be a good match.  Just don't go overboard in finishing it.  I did on mine but I was only 13 at the time and we were living overseas in SE Asia.  Covered it with silk on the wings, silkspan on the solid wood components then Aerogloss dope I cut with polishing compound and wax.  It came out way better than a 2nd model ever should.

[Steve Hines]

The new enya 20 is the same case as the 15 and I think it is lighter. There was some new ones on eBay.

Steve

[Luscombe1940]

Hi Gary,

I have had a Jr. Nobler for years now.  It is an original kit, covered all in monocoat and uses a Fox .15X (slant plug) with an 8-4 Top Flite prop.  It is a very nice flying small model.  I run the engine in a wet 2 style which is prevalent today.

Is the Veco .19 the original plain bearing .19 or the later Ball Bearing version?  If it is the BB version, save it for a larger model.  If it is the plain bearing version, it should work well.

Personally, I would shoot for building it light and using the Enya .15.  It will be plenty powerful for the model!  It will not fly slow and stunt like the bigger models, but it will not appear to be as fast as a bigger model flying the same lap times.  Most of all, have fun as you get back into this!

Bill

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the response. I have two Veco 19's and they are both RC BB models. So neither of those will go on the Jr.Nobler.

I have been in touch with the Ebay seller and will get a venturi and NVA for the Enya 15. I also discovered an Enya 19 bushing in my box. It does not have a NVA or carb. Not even sure where I obtained it. After I clean it, I may see about a venturi and NVA for it.

I will also get connected locally with the CL group in Milwaukee and get some help form them. I appreciate all of the input from every one here. The Jr. Nobler kit I have is an original that I bought in the early 80's. It has been a long time since I have built a plane so this will be a slow startup over the winter. First step is to get some glass and get a flat building surface set up.

The alignment comments and sensitivity to them that I have been reading on this forum are a bit concerning. I used to like to build a lot and will need to brush up on the techniques. Glad I found this forum. Looking forward to the journey.

As an aside, my user name reflects the plane my dad had that I flew in with him as a very young lad. I suspect that is where I gained my love for all things airplane. After dad passed I was able to own and get my license in the same plane. Only had a couple hundred hours in it but whenever I flew it, the memories of the time I spent with dad would all flood back. My kids have not shown much interest in flying or models. I hope to change that with my grandsons!

Thanks guys!

Gary

[Carl Cisneros]

Gary

you can not go wrong with those Enya motors.

they are like a Timex, They take a licking and keep on ticking,

they are noted for there longevity.  I used them in 2 of my ships, both have the 19's in them.

Carl

[YakNine]

A Luscombe on skis, now that looks fun, cold but fun, a guy where I used to fly had a Champ on skis and always seemed to be having a ball. T.J.