Author Topic: Expo handle experience? (Read 5430 times)

Larry Renger · « **on:** April 14, 2017, 07:42:03 PM »

I have sold 25 exponential handle kits. I understand that flying season is young, but haven't any of them been tested?

How did they work out? Were there any instruction or construction problems? How did they work flying?

I would really love to have feedback, even if it is very negative. (Then I can stop flogging a dead horse, if that is appropriate)

The concept works for me, but that doesn't mean it is good for anyone else. I have enough of the handles for MY lifetime, so if nobody else wants one,there is no problem. I just won't tout the concept any more. (Ever heard of flying monoline stunt? It can be done, but isn't wonderful)

(Dale and Joe Kirn could do a recognizable pattern, but the $1000 prize for winning a contest was never claimed)

Obviously, I think exponential is more mainstream than monoline, but maybe not.

I have about 5 variations on the concept for different model types from 1/2A on up. I recently designed one that duplicates the old E-Z Just Hot Rock. Truth in advertizing, that one has not been tested yet.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2017, 11:04:59 AM »

With a grand daughter that thinks the Suburban is hers, the weather and my kittle set, haven't tried mine yet.

frank williams · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2017, 06:16:33 PM »

Hi Larry
I built the handle ... the zero overhangm not the hot rock .... and have flown it about a dozen times and I'm very impressed..

I've flown it on a full up piped 75 ship with the spacing in all three locations. Initially I was concerned that the moving parts would be a distraction. They aren't .... with line tension everything snugs up fine.

It does definitely reduce sensitivity in level flight, and is amazingly responsive during maneuvers. This is with a 3 inch line spacing setting and I have all the corner I had with 4inch spacing handles.

The key I think, is that the handle is zero overhang. Well not really zero overhang since the attach point is not at the wrist hinge point, but the line attach point is behind the fingers. We all know that as the overhang increases, the load feedback increases and the control feels "duller". With this handle at zero overhang it is quite "hot" even with a tiny line spacing.

I need to experiment more, but initial assessment is positive. I feel like with the zero overhang I could fly it with even down to a two inch line spacing and still have maneuver power.

Will report more later ..... try it, you'll like it ....

Frank

John Paris · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2017, 07:34:02 PM »

Larry,
I have a couple of flights with mine. It seems to work quite well with the only thing that caught my attention was the noise associated with the pieces moving. I was thinking about adding some thin metal shims along the moving surface and to round the edges of the arms so they move freely. It is not a performance issue and perhaps something I could get used to as I use it more.
Regards,
John

Larry Renger · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2017, 10:55:37 PM »

I definitely round the edges that touch the handle. Oops, missed that in the instructions.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2017, 11:53:15 AM »

You mean I have to take mine apart again?

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2017, 06:34:19 PM »

Larry
I like flying mono line...............

Larry Renger · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2017, 07:55:13 AM »

Probably lousy on the overhead eights

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2017, 08:45:53 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on April 17, 2017, 07:55:13 AM

Probably lousy on the overhead eights

No Larry, they are just really fast that's all. Just don't blink!

OBTW, I have my handle all assembled and shaped but haven't tried it yet. (To much H2O on the field) Looking forward to some dry weather.....

Jerry

Rick_Huff · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2017, 04:41:09 AM »

Larry,
I've flown enough flights with your exponential handle to know that I really like it. I agree with what Frank said about it; reduced sensitivity around neutral and very positive response in maneuvers. If you have any more kits, I'd like to get few more so I can equip more of my planes with them.
Thanks,
Rick

Juan Carlos Pesce · « **Reply #10 on:** April 29, 2017, 10:48:26 AM »

Hi Larry
Will you sell your handles at the next Brodak Fly-Inn in June?
Thanks for your reply.
Yours truly

Juan Carlos Pesce
Buenos Aires
Argentina

Larry Renger · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2017, 06:40:40 AM »

I don't go to Brodaks and only sell the handles by mail. I am currently out of stock, but getting quotes on a new, larger run of parts. I will post information on my progress!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2017, 08:20:45 PM »

After some consideration, when the handle is deflected in a maneuver, the effective pivot point is halfway between the pivot screw and line attachment. For me, that puts it right at the outside of my knuckles. I don't know of another handle with it that far in.

Actually it would be easy to have a handle that has the pivot point at the pivot screw. That would put it inside your grip. No Expo, however. Basically, the links would be free to pivot both in and out in a wider slot.

I can draw up that modification if anyone is eager to try it! You would be on your own to actually make it, though.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2017, 07:39:58 AM »

By the way, if you fly with the Expo handle a lot, be very careful when you switch back to a conventional one. The model won't respond as fast as you expect! Guess how I found out.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2017, 10:47:07 AM »

We are well into flying season. No excuses! Any news, good or bad? Recommendations? Comments?

RC Storick · « **Reply #15 on:** May 30, 2017, 10:56:56 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on May 30, 2017, 10:47:07 AM

We are well into flying season. No excuses! Any news, goo or bad? Recommendations? Comments?

I just got mine together and the finish is drying. I should be able to use it next flying session

Dane Martin · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2018, 10:33:43 AM »

I know this is an old thread, but let me give my impression from my use of this handle at VSC. My twister was extremely sensitive, and Larry let me borrow his handle to try. My take off and level flights immediately got better. Level upright or inverted felt great. I had no problem getting full deflection when I needed it. And I needed it several times. I know myself and Jack Comer picked up a new handle kit.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2018, 10:56:43 AM »

I know the handle made a big difference to the good on my Ringmaster Imperial and the King Sweep planes.

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2018, 02:58:18 PM »

Thanks Larry for your work. I would like at least (2) of them when kits are ready.
Doug

Allan Perret · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2018, 04:43:01 PM »

I made 3 flights with the expo. Needs modification for me, index finger knuckle rubs on metal part. Did all I could as far as filing down and rounding over the edges but it still irritates me. Have to redisgn as far as shape of metal parts for my normal hand position.

bob whitney · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2018, 06:08:45 PM »

are there any pictures of these handles

Jim Hoffman · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2018, 08:37:46 PM »

I use an Expo handle on my Ringmaster. Very subtle, but nice benefit (hi gain) during the vertical 8 as one drives to the intersection on the down hill leg.

Jim Hoffman

Larry Renger · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2018, 10:27:49 AM »

Dane didn't mention that his score improved by 120 points!

The handle kits are available. $27.50 including domestic shipping for one, $53.50 for two. Paypal preferred. Send me a PM if you want to order.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2018, 12:36:49 PM »

Hope picture came through.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/exponential-handle-back-in-stock-for-now/?action=dlattach;attach=273646;image

Larry Renger · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2018, 07:33:28 PM »

Thanks for posting the picture, Doc!

I am perfectly happy to accept checks. Send to :

Larry Renger
22 La Purisima
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688

I will wait a few days for them to clear.

Paypal is so much cleaner! Paypal to: larry_renger@earthlink.net . And don't forget to include your shipping address!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2018, 07:34:48 PM »

Breaking news!

For my planes with 3”bellcranks, a shortened handle is being assembled. When it is built and tested, new laser cut wood should be available and I’ll post a pdf of the parts for anyone who wants to try it with their existing hardware. The metal parts are unchanged.

New variations aren’t that hard to make with a drillpress and jigsaw. (A good set of Forster bits is a nice tool set to have). 1/8” ply is easy to work with. Once you have the metal arms, the rest is easy for exprimentation. The arms are the B$&+h to make by hand, but I had a gazillion water jet cut for the latest round of kits. Arms per pair would be $10 and $1.25 shipping if you just want to experiment on your own. Handle part drawings are available in pdf or dwg format for free, just ask.

This concept is new enough that a lot of experimentation is needed. I can’t do it all, as I am Designman, not Pilotman. We need top flyers to try this stuff out and perfect it. ( But most of them are chicken to even try it. I CAN name names, but refrain... for now).

On my own latest handles, the screws are being replaced by 1/8” dowel pins for less wear of the pivot point. (Like we fly enough to wear out the existing setup). If you want to will this handle to your great grandkids, you can also brass bush the holes in the arms.

I came across some 1/8” Walnut sheets....when I have exactly the design I like, the Rolls Royce version will be made..just for me

Of course it will need a silk pillow to rest upon on the asphalt.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2018, 07:01:15 AM »

Sure Larry. I'll test it for you. Ha!

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2018, 11:34:50 AM »

Larry

I have not yet flown since I built up my kit from you but it feels good in my hand

1/8th Walnut sheets? any chance they are going out for laser cutting?.... I dearly love working with my limited supply of Black Walnut wood for some Pistol grips

Larry Renger · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2018, 01:34:29 PM »

When the time comes, I will definetly laser cut the walnut. I just finished jigsaw cutting my new prototype.

A pain in the backside (my jigsaw stand is too short for comfort) and not as clean as I would like..

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2018, 09:18:20 AM »

Fredvon4, in my experience if you have a plane that is sluggish you will see a big difference in the expo handle. It also helped me with over controlling also.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2018, 11:15:06 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on April 07, 2018, 09:18:20 AM

Fredvon4, in my experience if you have a plane that is sluggish you will see a big difference in the expo handle. It also helped me with over controlling also.

My issue was the opposite. I built my twister while flying nothing but combat planes. So I made sure my controls were super fast. Turns out that was a bad idea for stunt. Chris McMillan came to my rescue and moved the elevator horn. Then we switched to this handle. Now my level laps are level and smooth. Take off and landing score jumped way up.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2018, 12:55:59 PM »

when the exterior walnut sides are done I want one or two MORE kits......grin

Larry Renger · « **Reply #32 on:** April 08, 2018, 07:56:47 AM »

I don’t plan to make walnut versions except for myself. Sorry.

But the regular ply takes stains very nicely.

Personally, my handles are usually in bright colors so they are easy to find on grass.

Mark Mc · « **Reply #33 on:** July 11, 2018, 12:07:25 AM »

Well, since there was mention of these in another board, I thought I'd add mine. I hope I'm not doing something bad in posting on the kit handle thread. I'm still a beginner, but I decided to make three handles from the plans graciously offered. I used some 1/8" aluminum stock and a bunch of scrap ply I had on hand, and did this with a hand drill, scroll saw, and a 30" belt sander. They went together pretty quickly. The pivots are 4-40 screws on one side screwing into T-nuts on the other side. I chose to just make them with a fixed 3" spacing rather than adjustable spacing like the kits. I didn't stain or paint the handles, and I did minimal sanding/shaping. I found I kinda like the squarish feel of the handle. Fits nicely between the finger joints. I just sealed the wood with a wipe of CA and then assigned them to planes. I've only flown three times with the handles, and as I say, I'm just a beginner. But I like the feel of these better than the other handles I've tried. Before use, I did a pull test in all attitudes using 23 pounds of weight on a dumbbell. The three planes I made these for are between 29 and 32 ounces.

Another thing I like about these is that they make setting neutral easy. I always have a hard time holding my hand in a neutral position on the initial setup and have to re-adjust after the first flight. With these, if neither arm is out of the neutral position, I know I'm holding the handle neutral.

Mark

Larry Renger · « **Reply #34 on:** July 11, 2018, 09:00:43 AM »

Lookin’ good! I am happy the design is working out for you.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** July 11, 2018, 02:01:22 PM »

After repairing the Hobo I went to the field to fly it. First flight a little lean and fast plus was having trouble on out sides. Second flight I richened it a little and got better results. Decided to try the Expo handle with a little richer needle. What a difference. My takeoffs are nice and smooth as well as level laps. Got most of the pattern but I think my fuel must have too much nitro. It is some stuff I'm trying to use up as with the Power Master 10% nitro ans 22 oil I would usually get 10 laps after the clover. Any way I'm sold on this handle.

Author Topic: Expo handle experience? (Read 5430 times)

Rick_Huff