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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Dave Adamisin on March 20, 2008, 10:30:49 AM
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HI guys. Have you seen this??
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EVOE0365
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I just wish I new more about how they ran before I plunk down $80 for one. They look kinda neat!
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WOW I wounder if it's an eazy starter like their RC ones.
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The tongue muffler pictured is sure a contrast to the usual mufflers that are provided with modern engines, especially the converted R/C ones.
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The package actually also includes the standard cast muffler which is very quiet and efficient as well as three different venturis (0.218. 0.235 and 0.272"). It gives you a very flexible power profile for just about any classic and old time model. We've flown it with all of the configurations and found it to be easy to handle and VERY powerfull and responsive to the needle. Clean four cycle and nice break. Full hemi with small squish combustion chamber. The small case makes it easy to put into classic stunter designs.
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Clint: I see another engine in your future - and FWIW Chipmunk made it to Gallup fine, it has taken up residence in my spare bedroom. The other (garaged) stunters are jealous <=
Dave: Props used? RPM? Planes? Did you use the remote needle valve or convert to std. configuration? Thanks
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Horizon must have noticed an uptick in sales for CL engines, presumably at Tower, good sign.
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We used it with the remote valve. It's nice and progressive. It weighs a little less than an once so if weight is a consideration... Proped from 9x6 to 12x5. With the 0.272 vent it's more of a 40 to 46 replacement. with the .218 it spins an 11x4 Powerpoint at 9400 - clean no break four- the larger vents add about 500 rpm to that in equal steps. The liner was redesigned from the rc version to make it more stunt friendly with changes to both transfer and ep area area. It tolerates just about any fuel. Really a friendly and trust me, powerfull piece. We have been flying a Vector arf (0.235 vent 11X4 and 11X6)) with it as well as a cardinal arf (0.218 vent 11x5 or 6).
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Thanks Dave - those are impressive numbers. And Ditto on the good sign #^
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At 10.3 oz without a muffler, seems a bit heavy for classic applications to me. Considering the Fox 35 most used. Then when you consider an LA .46 weighs like 8.4 oz with no muffler. Dont know anything about the motor other than what the specs read to be honest. The cooling fin design has always seemed odd to me, but then I am used to the "normal" config and I am one of the weird guys that like the blue LA finish, so take it for what its worth
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1st time I've seen a tongue on a Manufactured motor from a major company. Now if they would only get rid of the remote needle valve setup. Could be a possibility if it compares with the Aerotiger 36. I see the Liner is specific for control line. Would like to see more non biased opinions and I may be in the market. Good to see more interest in control line is being noticed by the companies. Competition is good for the consumer
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I'm wondering if the specs. given are for the R/C version ? The keys state 9.3 oz with tongue muffler.
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At 10.3 oz without a muffler, seems a bit heavy for classic applications to me. Considering the Fox 35 most used. Then when you consider an LA .46 weighs like 8.4 oz with no muffler. Dont know anything about the motor other than what the specs read to be honest. The cooling fin design has always seemed odd to me, but then I am used to the "normal" config and I am one of the weird guys that like the blue LA finish, so take it for what its worth
Hi Mark. Good point on the weight. Horizon seems to have copied the specs verbage in part from the RC engine. In the write up it specs the weight (with the tongue) at 9.4 oz. the 10.3 is with the very large rc carb.
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the heads up on a new CL engine. I have always been a big fan of Horizon products. I have several of their planes and radios, they make a quality, well engineered product and back it with excellent customer service. My guess is that this CL engine will be a good one. :-)
There seems to be some confusion on it's weight. They mention 9.3oz "with" the tongue muffler twice in their write up. Then they show 10.3 engine only in their data section and 2.x oz for the "real" muffler. Do you know what the actual weight is?
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Guys,
The specs were indeed copied from the RC page. I have updated the page today. The bare engine weight is 9.3 oz. Remember that this includes two ball bearings, not sleeve bearings when you are comparing. the tongue muffler weighs in at 14gms (.5 oz) and the Std expansion muffler at 2.1 oz. Both are included and the choice is yours to use.
Thanks for the encouragement. You'll see more in the future from the guys at Horizon...
Pete
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Thanks for the encouragement. You'll see more in the future from the guys at Horizon...
Pete
Kits ARFs? n~
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Pete,
Nice job and appreciate the support that Horizon Hobby is giving the control line world. Can't find a nicer bunch of guys at HH. How about doing the same thing with the 52?
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Thanks for the encouragement. You'll see more in the future from the guys at Horizon...
This is an interesting development. Its good to see the guys at horizon taking us seriously. Long may it continue! I will certainly show my appreciation in the form of a Saito 62 CL in the near future.
From my point of view, the Evo36 is unfortunately in a category already brimming with excellent CL options at a good price. What I would LOVE to see is one of those low cost brands cobble together a rear exhaust 60 or bigger with stunt worthy timing and weight uder 13 oz. Far easier said than done, I know. RE castings aren't exactly commonplace. But I'd be all over it. Maybe a side exhaust 65 in a 52 case is more do-able... one can dream ;)
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Can't resist jumping in here. As Dave mentioned one of the test birds is a Vector ARF - here's a couple pix of the installation.
The remote needle works EXTREMELY well with real broad resolution. Having the needle exit on the opposite side from the muffler and well behind the prop will spoil you for "normal" engines. The height is such that it works very well with bottle tanks too...
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A tongue muffler and three different venturi's as standard issue is a nice touch. Some companies seem to charge more for taking off the carb and replacing it with a venturi. I wonder if the venturi's or muffler will fit other brands of engines. What's the cost of a venturi these days? Ten dollars or more? With the tongue muffler and extra venturi's it's kinda like getting $30 or so worth of extra goodies.
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Is the motor mount hole pattern common with OS LA 40/ 46 or B40?
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Did you guys notice the clever cowl outlet Dennis pulled off........
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Did you guys notice the clever cowl outlet Dennis pulled off........
Yeah, the "E" for Evolution. Pretty cool.
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Where are these engines' made?
Anybody know the ulitmate source?
The ad says "available May 08".
As mentioned above, $80 for on engine with three venturis, an NVA, and good muffler is give-away.
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This is some great news! With the optional mufflers and venturis included, it seems like a very fair price at $79.99. I will second Crist's suggestion on doing the larger engines as well. Kudos to Horizon! y1
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Did you guys notice the clever cowl outlet Dennis pulled off........
Yea, that Dennis is always showin' off. Seriously, wish I only had one LA46 in the stable, I'd cough up for one of these in a heartbeat! y1 y1 y1 y1
Dennis, nice lookin' ship, ya bringin' it to the FCM this year so we can see the motor perform?
Blessings,
Will
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I cannot add anything here EXCEPT: The Adamisin's are world known for their engine work, and they do know what a stunt engine is supposed to do. If they say it is good for Stunt, I believe them. y1
Thanks for the information, guys!
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We used it with the remote valve. It's nice and progressive. It weighs a little less than an once so if weight is a consideration... Proped from 9x6 to 12x5. With the 0.272 vent it's more of a 40 to 46 replacement. with the .218 it spins an 11x4 Powerpoint at 9400 - clean no break four- the larger vents add about 500 rpm to that in equal steps. The liner was redesigned from the rc version to make it more stunt friendly with changes to both transfer and ep area area. It tolerates just about any fuel. Really a friendly and trust me, powerfull piece. We have been flying a Vector arf (0.235 vent 11X4 and 11X6)) with it as well as a cardinal arf (0.218 vent 11x5 or 6).
Dave
What are the mounting dimensions (holes) ?
Same as fp40 ?
ST46?
Fox 35?
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Dave
Looking at the Vector it looks like the 36 has a lower profile then the Brodak 40. The 36 is down inside the cowl The Brodak 40 is above the Vectors cowl.
Willis
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Dave
Looking at the Vector it looks like the 36 has a lower profile then the Brodak 40. The 36 is down inside the cowl The Brodak 40 is above the Vectors cowl.
Willis
Hi Willis. Yes it is smaller than most of the 35 to 40 engines. It's more like a 25 or 30 in volume. I'm working on a small chart of comparitive demensions.
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Dave
How does the mounting holes compare to a LA ?
Willis
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Dave
How does the mounting holes compare to a LA ?
Willis
I believe it's real close to the Thunder Tigre. The LA is about .68 to .59 on the Evo on the lug and 1.59 LA to 1.49 Evo across. It's only 1.77 total width which matches up to a LA25 or Magnum 25. It runs like a LOT more than that. We've been flying a Cardinal with the Evo 36 with the smallest vent turning an 11x6 Power Point at 5.3 to 5.4 (set for 4-2-4 break, clear 4 in level flight) lap times on 63's. If that gives some perspective.
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Yea, that Dennis is always showin' off. Seriously, wish I only had one LA46 in the stable, I'd cough up for one of these in a heartbeat! y1 y1 y1 y1
Dennis, nice lookin' ship, ya bringin' it to the FCM this year so we can see the motor perform?
Blessings,
Will
YES we will be at FCM, hopefully in full force. Expect to have EVO's in a couple birds in a couple classes.
BTW if anyone is keeping score, since last season Horizon has brought out 4 new CL engines plus bought major ad space in Stunt News... I like that!
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I couldn't resist. I tried to place an order online but Horizon's address verification service did not like my address so I phoned them and got on the list to get one. I made it a point to let the lady I was talking with know that we appreciate Horizon taking an interest in us controliners. I ask her if there would be a Saito 40 cl version coming out. She did not know.
Bill Hodges
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I put my order in today with cc info. Hope they come in in early May like they said. What other control line engines do they make ???
Bruce
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Hi Willis. Yes it is smaller than most of the 35 to 40 engines. It's more like a 25 or 30 in volume. I'm working on a small chart of comparitive demensions.
Hi guys. I was beavering away on measuring things and my younger bro passed this along to me. I don't know who put it together but I owe them a thank you. Here you go:
Mtg. Mtg. Mtg. Thrust
Hole Case Holes Holes Washer Overall Overall
Mfg Model Disp. Dia. Width Fore/Aft Width Frt Hole Width Length
Brodak 40 0.4 0.13 1.21 0.69 1.59 1.49 1.9 2.7
O.S. Max 35S 0.35 0.13 1.21 0.69 1.58 1.43 1.85 2.53
O.S. Max 40LA 0.4 0.16 1.25 0.68 1.59 1.67 1.89 2.9
Evolution 36 0.36 0.13 1.18 0.59 1.49 1.85 1.77 3.00
Evo 40-52 .40/.46/.52 0.16 1.42 0.69 1.73 2.07 2.04 3.35
OS Surpass 40 0.40 1.28 0.69 1.65 1.89 1.93 3.05
OS Surpass 48 0.48 1.34 0.69 1.73 1.94 2.01 3.17
Enya.35 # 5224 0.35 0.14 1.26 0.58 1.66 1.74 1.96 2.8
Enya .40XZS 0.4 0.14 1.2 0.59 1.48 1.82 1.77 3
Enya 50SS 0.5 0.14 1.35 0.71 1.67 1.93 2 3.23
Fox 35 Stunt0.35 0.13 1.21 0.63 1.52 1.14 1.82 2.25
Fox 36X 0.36 0.13 1.26 0.63 1.64 1.48 2 2.66
Fox 59 0.59 0.13 1.53 0.74 1.81 1.68 2.95
Magnum 25 GP 0.25 0.13 1.1 0.55 1.39 1.55 1.76 2.62
Magnum 25A XL 0.25 0.13 1.19 0.59 1.49 1.84 1.78 2.98
McCoy 35 0.35 0.13 1.29 0.57 1.58 1.53 1.89 2.55
McCoy 40 0.4 0.13 1.3 0.56 1.58 1.53 1.87 2.56
O.S. Max25LA 0.25 0.13 1.14 0.55 1.42 1.54 1.74 2.63
O.S. Max 25 FP 0.25 0.13 1.16 0.56 1.41 1.55 1.73 2.62
O.S. Max 35S 0.35 0.13 1.21 0.69 1.58 1.43 1.85 2.53
O.S. Max 35FP 0.35 0.13 1.25 0.69 1.59 1.7 1.9 2.91
O.S. Max 40FP 0.4 0.16 1.25 0.69 1.57 1.68 1.9 2.91
O.S. Max 40LA 0.4 0.16 1.25 0.68 1.59 1.67 1.89 2.9
O.S. Max 40H 0.4 0.15 1.32 0.69 1.58 1.89 1.89 3
O.S. Max 46LA 0.46 0.16 1.25 0.68 1.59 1.67 1.89 2.9
OS Surpass 40 0.40 1.28 0.69 1.65 1.89 1.93 3.05
OS Surpass 48 0.48 1.34 0.69 1.73 1.94 2.01 3.17
Saito 30 0.3 0.13 1.16 0.55 1.42 1.57 1.69 3.45
Saito 40A 0.4 0.13 1.2 0.59 1.49 1.8 1.77 3.47
Saito 56 0.56 0.19 1.27 0.59 1.82 2.05 2.12 4.03
S Tigre G51 0.51 0.14 1.38 0.76 1.65 1.95 1.97 3.24
T Tiger 25 0.25 0.13 1.12 0.56 1.47 1.38 1.79 2.45
T Tiger 36Pro 0.36 0.13 1.23 0.59 1.5 1.8 1.77 2.94
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cool looking engine - bummer it is not a drop in replacement for engines like the LA......
I second Ash's opinion of a reasonalby prices Rear Exhaust 60 .....something that would be snapped up by many
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from these numbers it looks like a bolt in for a thunder tigre 36.
dave jr.
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As soon as I get my hands on one I will make a super light tube muffler for this engine! The 'backorder' says May. Scott@ Hyflo Muffler www.hyflomuffler.com
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I have to believe that some one in the Stunt community has been corresponding with Horizon to come out with this motor. How else would Horizon know about Stunt timing of the liners and different venturi sizes as well as Tongue mufflers. I have my suspicions, anyone want to fess up?
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I have to believe that some one in the Stunt community has been corresponding with Horizon to come out with this motor. How else would Horizon know about Stunt timing of the liners and different venturi sizes as well as Tongue mufflers. I have my suspicions, anyone want to fess up?
Not real hard to figgure out, bet his last name starts with an "A"
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I have to believe that some one in the Stunt community has been corresponding with Horizon to come out with this motor. How else would Horizon know about Stunt timing of the liners and different venturi sizes as well as Tongue mufflers. I have my suspicions, anyone want to fess up?
I think the real story is that Pete Bergstrom at Horizon has taken charge of getting the 3 CL Saitos and now the CL Evolution 36 into production and into the product line. This is no small feat! Pete brought out the CL engines with multiple venturi inserts and the light weight tongue muffler - parts of no particular use to the RC crowd.
For any who don't know Pete, he is a CLPA flyer. The tongue muffler got tooled up specifically because Pete KNEW what we would be looking for and set out to get it.
Bob R. must be psychic! y1
Pete discussed the Evo36 with Dave Adamisin (one of my MUCH older brothers) starting last summer. The engine sounded REAL good on the bench, and we picked up a Vector ARF (see pix several posts ago) for flight tests. Dave actually "witnessed" the test flights in his living room over his phone while recovering from knee replacement surgery! I called him on my cell so he could "listen" to it - of course he got out later...
The effort that Pete Bergstrom made to bring the new CL engines out from a major RC supplier with no prior CL product - this is really something to that must be appreciated. H^^
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Dennis,
I couldn't have said it better about Pete - he's a winner in all respects and HH knows that. The whole staff at HH are wonderful people and I'm glad we cl guys can have a reason to deal with them!
Will
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Dennis,
I couldn't have said it better about Pete - he's a winner in all respects and HH knows that. The whole staff at HH are wonderful people and I'm glad we cl guys can have a reason to deal with them!
Will
What he said!
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Okay fellows who going to put me up when the wife finds out. Just completed my order for one of the engines. Now with the patience I have can I make it to May? DOC Holliday
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Ok, leap of faith - I just ordered one. Figured I could put it on one of the two F-Twisters I got in the pipeline.
Probably can slip $80 under her nose on the cc if you know what I mean! y1
I'll report when I get it and try it out.
Steve
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Darn it! Couldn't help myself. Got my name on one too.
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Dave,
I bought an RC version from my LHS for 40 bucks, never been run. Any idea when the venturi's will be listed on the parts list? I think a FP tounge will fit this bolt-on size..I was going to make a delrin venturi for it, but I like the looks of the blue anodyzed one shown here.BTW...did you count how many head shims come on the CL version?The RC version seems to have really high compression, so I had my LHS order me some extras..
And to think there were some naysayers saying it couldn't/shouldn't be done with this engine when I considered modifying it! Ha!!
LL~
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Another engine. The last thing I need is another engine. The more I hear about this one, the more I want one. This one won't drop into any model I have. The Tutor II would have been a good choice, but that one is gone. What ARF would be a good match for this one?
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Don't do ARF's but seen 'em all, flown some of 'em so here goes:
Clearly: Nobler, Smoothie, P-40, Vector 40, Sig Primary Force, Oriental
*Argueably: Cardinal, Pathfinder
*Fine IMHO, opinions may differ H^^
Did I miss any?
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Another engine. The last thing I need is another engine. The more I hear about this one, the more I want one. This one won't drop into any model I have. The Tutor II would have been a good choice, but that one is gone. What ARF would be a good match for this one?
I have a Evolution 36 that I have converted from a RC motor by machining a venturi for it. My motor is a real nice match for my Cardinal ARF. I made my venturi out of aluminum. When I tried to make a derlin venturi the drawbar would crush the throat of the venturi and it would fall out. No problem with metal.
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Dave,
I bought an RC version from my LHS for 40 bucks, never been run. Any idea when the venturi's will be listed on the parts list? I think a FP tounge will fit this bolt-on size..I was going to make a delrin venturi for it, but I like the looks of the blue anodyzed one shown here.BTW...did you count how many head shims come on the CL version?The RC version seems to have really high compression, so I had my LHS order me some extras..
And to think there were some naysayers saying it couldn't/shouldn't be done with this engine when I considered modifying it! Ha!!
LL~
There were 2 0.004" (.1mm) soft aluminum shims in all the engines I worked on. You have to ask Pete about the parts.
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Thanks Mike and Dave! Metal is is. I will try and get ahold of Pete and see if he can get me a set.
Or Mike, you can make me one and bring it to the Roundup next month?? lol :! LL~
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I measured the Magnum 36XLS which I set up for stunt and used for several years in an ARF Nobler.
I added the weight of the remote needle valve assembly, as that is used on the Evo.
Mtg. Mtg. Mtg. Thrust
Hole Case Holes Holes Washer Overall Overall Bare weight
Mfg Model Disp. Dia. Width Fore/Aft Width Frt Hole Width Length oz.
Evolution 36 0.36 0.13 1.18 0.59 1.49 1.85 1.77 3.00 9.3
Magnum 36 0.36 ----- 1.197 0.59 1.50 1.74 1.776 ---- 8.9
So, the major difference is the mounting distance to the thrust washer face (0.11 in) and the weight 0.4 oz.
Fred
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Don't do ARF's but seen 'em all, flown some of 'em so here goes:
Clearly: Nobler, Smoothie, P-40, Vector 40, Sig Primary Force, Oriental
*Argueably: Cardinal, Pathfinder
*Fine IMHO, opinions may differ H^^
Did I miss any?
Tutor II ???
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Actually I didn't forget, just think the Evolution .36 may be a bit small for the Tutor II so I didn't mention it. It is advertised for a 40-51 and around here, an LA-46 seems to be the engine of choice. As many know, the Tutor II is much larger than the original Top Flite Tutor. That one would fly well with an engine as small as a Veco 19. And yes, I joined the crowd and have an EVO on order as well ;D
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I have an original kit for the original Tutor. That might be a good match.
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Horizon must have noticed an uptick in sales for CL engines, presumably at Tower, good sign.
Sounds like Pete Bergstrom has been pretty successful introducing new CL versions of Saito's and Evolutions at Horizon.
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Some more information.
Pete was able to stay over an extra day following the Toledo show and we took him flying. We flew two different Evos with different mufflers and venturis. One was In an ARF Vector and the other in an ARF Cardinal. We used 11x4, 11x5, and 11x6 props running on both 5% and 7.5% Cool Power fuel. The motors ran effortlessly are were more than enough power for either model. We flew lap times varying from 5.2 to 6.4 seconds during the numerous flights and we had no issues what so ever. The engines ran 6 minutes on 4 ounces of fuel. All the props were off the shelf items, APC and Power points. We didn't use any custom pieces at all.
Both mufflers worked great and the tongue muffler was much more quiet than I expected. The tube muffler has a really nice sound, and would be the one I'd use because it sounds so good.
I'd just thought I'd let you know, they really do run nicely.
Arch
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Sounds great, now are they on schedule? DOC Holliday
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Looks like delivery's been slipped to June per the HH web site.
Chuck
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I am looking to by a ARF Oriental from Larry Renger, is this engine enough to power it? I had planned to put in a new in the box Brodak 40, but it's boxed up for a move I will be making and I don't which box it's in. (great excuse to buy a new engine ;D) Is this engine a good substitute for the B-40?
Andy
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I have an L&J Fox 35 in my ARF Oriental and it does great. I see no reason the Evo 36 shouldn't be fine also.
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I am looking to by a ARF Oriental from Larry Renger, is this engine enough to power it? I had planned to put in a new in the box Brodak 40, but it's boxed up for a move I will be making and I don't which box it's in. (great excuse to buy a new engine ;D) Is this engine a good substitute for the B-40?
Andy
Hi Andrew. We've been flying a Cardinal Profile ARF as well as a Brodak Vector arf with plenty of power. I think that the Evo 36 would be a great fit for the Oriental as well.
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Thanks guys, you talked me into it.
Andy
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Andy,
Be careful about the CG on the ARF Oriental with a heavy engine. Even with a Fox 35, the ARF seems to assemble a bit nose heavy. Mine had a Magnum 36 in it and it needed about 2 1/2 oz tail weight to get the CG correct. The Magnum was as far back as the firewall would permit. The ARF Smoothie, on the other hand, tends to assemble tail heavy with a light engine. The Magnum with a light tube muffler and plastic spinner put the Smoothie CG right on.
Steve
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Where are these engines' made?
Anybody know the ulitmate source?
The ad says "available May 08".
As mentioned above, $80 for on engine with three venturis, an NVA, and good muffler is give-away.
Paul,
Of course they are made in China, People's Republic of...
The info is on the Evolution Engines website, at the address in small print on the bottom of the inside front cover, June 2008 Flying Models. Maybe Horizon is serious about these? That's a full page, full color ad...
Checked further on the site and found that many of their Evolution and Saito engines are on back order or expected in late May or so. (Note: Saito has a small-medium - for 4-cycles - CL version for around $150... Small, light - for 4-cycles - and quite nice RPM on prop numbers.) The descriptive comments seem to change from one page to another, but compared to some of the early Owners' Manuals/ Instruction sheets from that side of the Pacific, years back, at least these look quite close to well-written USA English as we're used to it.
The EVO engines site allows downloading of the manuals as .pdf. The 36CL manual isn't up yet, but the engine looks quite similar to their 36NT RC engine, probably will have a similar manual. Glad to hear the bore/stroke numbers come with the revised timing and porting.
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Where are these engines' made?
Anybody know the ulitmate source?
The ad says "available May 08".
As mentioned above, $80 for on engine with three venturis, an NVA, and good muffler is give-away.
Paul,
Of course they are made in China, People's Republic of...
Info is in the Evolution Engines site, address at the bottom of the FULL-PAGE, FULL-COLOR ad on the inside of the front cover, Jun 2008 Flying Models mag.
Thanks, yet again, Pete B!
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Well I got all excited and went to Horizon and placed an order for the Evo .36 only to find out I won't get the engine until June. I guess the good news is somebody is buying these engines. I would like to see some other input regarding break in and use but I am committed to using one. I plan to break it in like I did the B-40 I have and use the GMA blend unless I hear otherwise.
Andy