electric cl

[corey colquhoun]

  hi,
   
     building first elec model brodak accentor,would appreciate any set up examples,all new to me as always had glow models only flown by son and i, we are miles from any cl clubs all information is gathered off the net or trial and error.

[Perry Rose]

The Li-Po batteries need a break in. I've ruined a couple by running them for full flights on their first use. Other than that bench trim the plane with the battery installed.

[FLOYD CARTER]

On this forum, look at the C/L Electrics column.  Under "List Your Setup", you will find many combinations of plane, motor, electrics.  I have found it useful in setting up my own electric models.

[corey colquhoun]

 will do thanks for the tip

[Bruce Shipp]

What happened to the "list your setup" forum under Getting All Amped Up?  I do not see it anymore?

Thank you.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Look again.   Very first line (at the top, of course)

[Motorman]

The Accentor would use an Eflight power15 motor, castle creations ice edge 50, Hubin Fm9 timer, APC 11-4.5E prop, Thunder power 4cell 2700mah battery. Program timer for 9250 rpm and 5:15 flight time and use .015" x 63' lines (handle to spinner).

The Accentor has a heavy duty fuselage that you can make lighter for electric.

MM

[corey colquhoun]

The Li-Po batteries need a break in. I've ruined a couple by running them for full flights on their first use. Other than that bench trim the plane with the battery installed.

ok ,thanks

[corey colquhoun]

The Accentor would use an Eflight power15 motor, castle creations ice edge 50, Hubin Fm9 timer, APC 11-4.5E prop, Thunder power 4cell 2700mah battery. Program timer for 9250 rpm and 5:15 flight time and use .015" x 63' lines (handle to spinner).

The Accentor has a heavy duty fuselage that you can make lighter for electric.

MM

     thanks can use all help, will certainly get me on the right track

[Joseph Daly]

Corey,
I built one a few years ago and originally it was IC and I converted it electric. Here is what I had in it, a Cobra 2820 castle ice lite 50 and a hubin FM9 using a 4S batteries. I used 3650mah HV batteries. It weighted 55 oz. If you are building it from the kit you can expect to be around 50 to 55 oz. If I were to build one form the start using electric I would change some of the nose construction. First I would replace the 1/16 plywood sides with 1/64 plywood sides. Also I would run a 5S 2700mah battery instead of the 4S 3650, the 5s is about 1oz less. The plane flew well and served it purpose for me. I recently gave it to another club member to use.
Joe

[Bruce Shipp]

Look again.   Very first line (at the top, of course)

Well...D'oh!  Thanks, Floyd.  I was looking for it under its own topic under getting all amped up.  CRS again!

[Dan McEntee]

The Accentor would use an Eflight power15 motor, castle creations ice edge 50, Hubin Fm9 timer, APC 11-4.5E prop, Thunder power 4cell 2700mah battery. Program timer for 9250 rpm and 5:15 flight time and use .015" x 63' lines (handle to spinner).

The Accentor has a heavy duty fuselage that you can make lighter for electric.

MM

      I don't know about any of the other stuff here, but that flight time of 5:15 on 63 foot lines will put him out of power about in the middle of the over head eights, unless he's flying 4 second laps! I would add a bit of a buffer on to that for the first flights.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Motorman]

5:15 is enough time to do the pattern @ 5.2 sec laps and have 2-3 laps left over but you can't do any extra laps, it's 5 laps from take off to wingover, 6 inverted laps and 2 laps between every stunt. I've done it in 5:10 with a 2500mah 4s with my Tanager on 65' lines which is basically the same plane with slightly more drag.

MM

[Shug Emery]

I got the Brodak P-40 and a complete Sport .46 electric flight system from RSM....http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm
Plenty of power and flies ever-so good.
I went away from the biased handle though. I use a Reyco Hard Point handle.
Shug

[GerryG]

Hi Shug:

Thanks for the great videos of your P-40.

Mine weighs close to 62 oz. trimmed out (still slightly tail heavy).
How much does yours weigh? Is there a chance that I got a heavy one (it was one of the first ones sold in the last batch)
In other words if I were to buy another one is it likely that I could get one that was 4 to 6 oz. lighter

[Steve Helmick]

Our friend Corey might do well to modify his "profile" to include the name of a nearby/closest town. There could be another bloke not far away that has, does, or would like to fly CL. You never know!

Looking at Shug's handle in detail, I'm wondering why the safety thong is attached to the top? I have seen guys attach it to the middle of the grip, but never top. That, or Shug has been holding the handle upside down?  Steve

[Shug Emery]

Hi Shug:

Thanks for the great videos of your P-40.

Mine weighs close to 62 oz. trimmed out (still slightly tail heavy).
How much does yours weigh? Is there a chance that I got a heavy one (it was one of the first ones sold in the last batch)
In other words if I were to buy another one is it likely that I could get one that was 4 to 6 oz. lighter

Mine is 50 ounces with everything except battery.

Our friend Corey might do well to modify his "profile" to include the name of a nearby/closest town. There could be another bloke not far away that has, does, or would like to fly CL. You never know!

Looking at Shug's handle in detail, I'm wondering why the safety thong is attached to the top? I have seen guys attach it to the middle of the grip, but never top. That, or Shug has been holding the handle upside down?  Steve

Said in my post...biased handle I was trying. Wanted more up throw. Have abandoned that trial. Lanyard is in the right place for me.

[Dan McEntee]

5:15 is enough time to do the pattern @ 5.2 sec laps and have 2-3 laps left over but you can't do any extra laps, it's 5 laps from take off to wingover, 6 inverted laps and 2 laps between every stunt. I've done it in 5:10 with a 2500mah 4s with my Tanager on 65' lines which is basically the same plane with slightly more drag.

MM

   I typically fly 5.0 to 5.3 laps depending on the airplane I fly, and after doing this since 1987 I am used to checking my watch after the over heads and usually see 5:20 to 5:30 on my watch before I do the clover, and I don't often fly extra laps between maneuvers. You can do the math on how long it takes to fly the level laps and such, but the maneuvers take up some time if you are doing them correctly. If you have done the whole pattern in 5:10 you were faster than 5.2, didn't do the tricks correctly, or left something out. I've judged and timed about as many flights as I've flown and don't ever recall stopping the watch that soon for a complete pattern. That is one of those "see to believe" things. For a new comer, setting the timer that soon might be asking for trouble.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Mark Scarborough]

   I typically fly 5.0 to 5.3 laps depending on the airplane I fly, and after doing this since 1987 I am used to checking my watch after the over heads and usually see 5:20 to 5:30 on my watch before I do the clover, and I don't often fly extra laps between maneuvers. You can do the math on how long it takes to fly the level laps and such, but the maneuvers take up some time if you are doing them correctly. If you have done the whole pattern in 5:10 you were faster than 5.2, didn't do the tricks correctly, or left something out. I've judged and timed about as many flights as I've flown and don't ever recall stopping the watch that soon for a complete pattern. That is one of those "see to believe" things. For a new comer, setting the timer that soon might be asking for trouble.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Dan, with an electric system, the timer counts the time AFTER it spools up for flight, so unlike a glow setup where you record time from the hand signal, an elecric setup will be shorter time..

My Impact is set for 5:10 , I fly 5.35 second laps ( depending upon elevation and conditions) I usually have a couple laps after the clover, oh and I am on MAX length lines minus 6 inches,

For the record pretty sure line length does not matter in this convo with regards to flight time elapsed, lap time will matter,, because oddly enough, lap times of 5 seconds on 20 foot lines and lap times on 65 foot lines still take 5 seconds,, 

[Fred Underwood]

Dan, with an electric system, the timer counts the time AFTER it spools up for flight, so unlike a glow setup where you record time from the hand signal, an elecric setup will be shorter time..

My Impact is set for 5:10 , I fly 5.35 second laps ( depending upon elevation and conditions) I usually have a couple laps after the clover, oh and I am on MAX length lines minus 6 inches,

For the record pretty sure line length does not matter in this convo with regards to flight time elapsed, lap time will matter,, because oddly enough, lap times of 5 seconds on 20 foot lines and lap times on 65 foot lines still take 5 seconds,, 

Agree with Mark on this and add a bit more fun math.  320 seconds/5.3 is about 60.4 laps and if 5.2 sec lap time about 61.5 laps.  Obviously we fly laps and maneuvers, there is probably some "lap equivalent" of time in the maneuvers, but a 0.1 second difference is about a lap at the end.  At least in electrics and the timing used.

[Tim Wescott]

Agree with Mark on this and add a bit more fun math.  320 seconds/5.3 is about 60.4 laps and if 5.2 sec lap time about 61.5 laps.  Obviously we fly laps and maneuvers, there is probably some "lap equivalent" of time in the maneuvers, but a 0.1 second difference is about a lap at the end.  At least in electrics and the timing used.

I was going to carefully calculate the "equivalent laps" for the whole pattern at one point -- until I learned that even with an Igor Thing the airplanes don't fly at a constant rate.  So I gave it up.

But if you're good with trigonometry you can figure it all out.

[Fred Underwood]

Or you can increase and decrease about 0.1 second lap time and see that you change about a lap at the end. Works for my engineering impaired electrics and my similarly impaired brain.

[Mark Scarborough]

The laps at the end help give me a sense of how far off I am from my home field ,, so far I dont have enough data points to really decide what it means, but its something I noted.

[Dan McEntee]

Dan, with an electric system, the timer counts the time AFTER it spools up for flight, so unlike a glow setup where you record time from the hand signal, an elecric setup will be shorter time..

My Impact is set for 5:10 , I fly 5.35 second laps ( depending upon elevation and conditions) I usually have a couple laps after the clover, oh and I am on MAX length lines minus 6 inches,

For the record pretty sure line length does not matter in this convo with regards to flight time elapsed, lap time will matter,, because oddly enough, lap times of 5 seconds on 20 foot lines and lap times on 65 foot lines still take 5 seconds,, 

      Well having never played with an electric set up, I had not taken that into account. I pretty consistently can give a hand signal, one flip start, get to the handle and be airborne in 30 seconds or so, and add that to the 5:10 and it puts me in the neighborhood where I usually am. I was confusing the timer set time with the working time. So the timer starts when it sees a specific amount of current? I was figuring it started from the time the start button was pushed. Any type of electronic timer I have been involved with (industrial) started counting when energized.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Mark Scarborough]

It depends on the timer I imagine. I use the FM9
on mine, I set the delay time and the flight time.
The delay time establishs the amount of time to get to the handle, the flight time is spool up and fly the pattern.
SO it goes like this, arm the battery,, signal the judges, push the button, ( on my setup I have a 25 second delay set typically)
at the button push the prop spins a partial revolution letting you know that you have triggered the system.
saunter confidently to the handle, prepart,, after the 25 seconds transpires the motor begins the timed run ( 5:10  minutes)
FLy the pattern,, at 5" 05 the motor sags for a second to warn you . At 5:10 it stops and you land...

HOpe that sheds some light,, 

[Dave_Trible]

At just a glance down the thread in re the time to do the pattern I didn't notice a mention of how much different airplanes/ power packages slow down in maneuvers.  It can chew up a lot more time one to another.  I'm not sure you can just put a math calculation on it.  I've seen up to a full minute of variance even though you may be using a like level lap time.

Dave

[corey colquhoun]

Corey,
I built one a few years ago and originally it was IC and I converted it electric. Here is what I had in it, a Cobra 2820 castle ice lite 50 and a hubin FM9 using a 4S batteries. I used 3650mah HV batteries. It weighted 55 oz. If you are building it from the kit you can expect to be around 50 to 55 oz. If I were to build one form the start using electric I would change some of the nose construction. First I would replace the 1/16 plywood sides with 1/64 plywood sides. Also I would run a 5S 2700mah battery instead of the 4S 3650, the 5s is about 1oz less. The plane flew well and served it purpose for me. I recently gave it to another club member to use.
Joe

 thanks Joe useful info

[corey colquhoun]

Our friend Corey might do well to modify his "profile" to include the name of a nearby/closest town. There could be another bloke not far away that has, does, or would like to fly CL. You never know!

Looking at Shug's handle in detail, I'm wondering why the safety thong is attached to the top? I have seen guys attach it to the middle of the grip, but never top. That, or Shug has been holding the handle upside down?  Steve

 Steve,i live in a small coastal town called south west rocks, rc is popular but have never heard of anyone doing cl,i did as a kid and just recently getting more interested,but to be totally honest im only a beginner.have built a couple scratch build models .35 glow size and im looking forward to flying the accentor. The kits end up a bit pricy by the time they arrive brodak had them advertised at $64 but by the time it arrived through a dealer $280 au with prop tank wheels and elec coversion kit

[corey colquhoun]

I got the Brodak P-40 and a complete Sport .46 electric flight system from RSM....http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm
Plenty of power and flies ever-so good.
I went away from the biased handle though. I use a Reyco Hard Point handle.
Shug

  rsm ill check them out, I like your vids on yt cheers

[Steve Helmick]

Steve,i live in a small coastal town called south west rocks

Looked it up on Google Earth. There's a bloke in Coffs Harbour, and I think another in Port Macquarie. I think there's still a couple of CL oriented websites in Australia, and you might Google them up. You'd be very welcome, of that I'm certain.

In Spring of '83, I drove from Brisbane down as far as Fairy Meadows/Wollongong, to Owens Engines (hobby shop), then back to Sydney, in a POS Mitsubishi rental car. Stopped in Coffs Harbour and Nambucca Heads, but not SW Rocks.  Steve

[corey colquhoun]

Looked it up on Google Earth. There's a bloke in Coffs Harbour, and I think another in Port Macquarie. I think there's still a couple of CL oriented websites in Australia, and you might Google them up. You'd be very welcome, of that I'm certain.

In Spring of '83, I drove from Brisbane down as far as Fairy Meadows/Wollongong, to Owens Engines (hobby shop), then back to Sydney, in a POS Mitsubishi rental car. Stopped in Coffs Harbour and Nambucca Heads, but not SW Rocks.  Steve

 wow Steve,it is a small world,hopefully the is someone nearby with a similar intrest in cl, in saying that I still get enjoyment learning things off the net watching some of the skilful pilots and their well trimmed planes

[Igor Burger]

The laps at the end help give me a sense of how far off I am from my home field ,, so far I dont have enough data points to really decide what it means, but its something I noted.

Different air density :- )) it will change also with temperature, we change settings to compensate.

[Howard Rush]

The laps at the end help give me a sense of how far off I am from my home field ,, so far I dont have enough data points to really decide what it means, but its something I noted.

But it won't tell you the direction to your home field.  You'll have better luck finding your way home with a GPS.

Hope this helps.

[Mark Scarborough]

But it won't tell you the direction to your home field.  You'll have better luck finding your way home with a GPS.

Hope this helps.

Howard,
I can always count on you to provide helpfull information,

[Steve Helmick]

To this date, Howard's GPS only finds my next door neighbor's house. Don't put too much faith in them;  they'll only get you close.  Steve

[corey colquhoun]

 thanks guys for all your feedback on ecl set up ,ive decided to go with a .46 power package from rsm with my first elec model until I learn a bit more  cheers

[FLOYD CARTER]

The motors from RSM are OK.  I have one setup described as "46-size" or something like that.  You might note that their motors do not have flexible leads coming out of the motor.  Instead, the solid copper wires from the pole piece windings are brought out the back.  That means they are not very flexible.  This could give trouble unless you don't need to bend the leads to fit.  Another problem with solid wires is they will break if flexed too many times.

Most motors use flexible leads on their motors.

I think such a cost-cutting feature is going overboard.

Floyd

[Motorman]

thanks guys for all your feedback on ecl set up ,ive decided to go with a .46 power package from rsm with my first elec model until I learn a bit more  cheers

I would recommend against that, you can PM me for details. Do yourself a favor and call Bob Hunt. He mentored me into electric flight and I can't thank him enough for his time and knowledge.

BTW, Thunder Power 50% sale code Holiday16.

MM

[corey colquhoun]

The motors from RSM are OK.  I have one setup described as "46-size" or something like that.  You might note that their motors do not have flexible leads coming out of the motor.  Instead, the solid copper wires from the pole piece windings are brought out the back.  That means they are not very flexible.  This could give trouble unless you don't need to bend the leads to fit.  Another problem with solid wires is they will break if flexed too many times.

Most motors use flexible leads on their motors.

I think such a cost-cutting feature is going overboard.

Floyd

oh no more doubt in my mind that is a good point is was unaware of that

[phil c]

Steve,i live in a small coastal town called south west rocks, rc is popular but have never heard of anyone doing cl,i did as a kid and just recently getting more interested,but to be totally honest im only a beginner.have built a couple scratch build models .35 glow size and im looking forward to flying the accentor. The kits end up a bit pricy by the time they arrive brodak had them advertised at $64 but by the time it arrived through a dealer $280 au with prop tank wheels and elec coversion kit

Cory, hard to tell from 10,000 miles away, but it looks like balsa wood is 2-3x as expensive as in the states.  But even so overall it might be significantly cheaper scratch building.  Just the shipping from the US is about equal to the kit price.

[corey colquhoun]

  your right  mate there is only maybe $40 odd bucks worth of balsa and hardware balsa is pretty cheep here,its only the time

[Steve Helmick]

The bloke in Coffs Harbour is Fred Pearson, and the guy I think is in Port McQ. is Leadbeater; Warren, maybe. My buddy Peter Lloyd in Greensboro, Vic is the place to get premium balsa...PELAERO. I can't say how spendy it is, but he sells to discriminating FF & CL guys all over Ozzie...balsa snobs every one. He has an "in" at the balsa factory...is that "Solarbo"? Grown in PNG, anyway. When they get some very light logs, he gets the call, and then specifies how he wants it cut.     

You might check the "Members" roster here and see if they are there. I know for sure that Pete is a member here on SH. They're listed by first name, oddly enough...much like my cell phone "contacts". Otherwise, maybe you could look up the names in the phone book section at the public library (or online?).

I take it that you've discovered the electron forum here? And the "pinned" electron cookbooks? I prefer to save my electron allotments for lighting glowplugs and charging Makita battery packs, but there is a lot of information there for those interested.  Steve     

[Dallas Hanna]

The bloke in Coffs Harbour is Fred Pearson, and the guy I think is in Port McQ. is Leadbeater; Warren, maybe. My buddy Peter Lloyd in Greensboro, Vic is the place to get premium balsa...PELAERO. I can't say how spendy it is, but he sells to discriminating FF & CL guys all over Ozzie...balsa snobs every one. He has an "in" at the balsa factory...is that "Solarbo"? Grown in PNG, anyway. When they get some very light logs, he gets the call, and then specifies how he wants it cut.     

You might check the "Members" roster here and see if they are there. I know for sure that Pete is a member here on SH. They're listed by first name, oddly enough...much like my cell phone "contacts". Otherwise, maybe you could look up the names in the phone book section at the public library (or online?).

I take it that you've discovered the electron forum here? And the "pinned" electron cookbooks? I prefer to save my electron allotments for lighting glowplugs and charging Makita battery packs, but there is a lot of information there for those interested.  Steve     

Warren Leadbeatter is at Port Stephens area Steve, just north of Newcastle.  Dave Murrell is up at Coffs with Fred Pearson.  S.W Rocks is quite a way from any ever diminishing control line flying here on the east coast.

HH

[corey colquhoun]

The bloke in Coffs Harbour is Fred Pearson, and the guy I think is in Port McQ. is Leadbeater; Warren, maybe. My buddy Peter Lloyd in Greensboro, Vic is the place to get premium balsa...PELAERO. I can't say how spendy it is, but he sells to discriminating FF & CL guys all over Ozzie...balsa snobs every one. He has an "in" at the balsa factory...is that "Solarbo"? Grown in PNG, anyway. When they get some very light logs, he gets the call, and then specifies how he wants it cut.     

You might check the "Members" roster here and see if they are there. I know for sure that Pete is a member here on SH. They're listed by first name, oddly enough...much like my cell phone "contacts". Otherwise, maybe you could look up the names in the phone book section at the public library (or online?).

I take it that you've discovered the electron forum here? And the "pinned" electron cookbooks? I prefer to save my electron allotments for lighting glowplugs and charging Makita battery packs, but there is a lot of information there for those interested.  Steve     

    all good gents I may be able to drop one of those guys a line ,still having a good time trying new stunts and flying for fun,will be great to fly this new electric powered accentor, but haven't written off playing around with ic models just yet

[john e. holliday]

You can find those gentlemen over on the Barton Model Flying Club site.   There is also a Newsletter I get from the Australia group that covers most of their model activities.

[eric rule]

RSM .46 & .61-.75 electric motors (Black Tiger 3548C & 4250C) now have silicone wires. We demanded that the manufacturer use these instead of the hard copper wires. Like Floyd said the hard copper wires can break if they are bent back and forth a lot.

Our initial specifications for the Black Tiger motors did not cover the external wires because I did not think that modelers would be running the motors in and out of their models. I thought that once they had the motors in the model and got the wires bent the way they wanted them that would be it. Obviously I was wrong about this so we changed the manufacturing specifications to put silicone wires on all of our Black Tiger motors. The hard copper wires were not used due to cost saving reasons. They were installed by the factory because I did not think it was an issue so did not write the specifications to cover this aspect of the manufacturing. That has now been changed.

Since RSM Distribution warranties the Black Tigers for all damage with the exception of crash damage for a full two years we will replace any motor were the copper wires break. It is interesting to note that with the hundreds of Black Tiger motors we have out there in use we have only received two motors back due to wire breakage so I am not certain this is an issue at all. Never the less I have changed the manufacturing specifications to install only soft silicone wires.