Dry cell glow starter

[Tim Wescott]

Someone asked on another thread, I'm answering here.

Dry cell glow starter.  A pair of alkaline D cells in parallel give more current than a NiCad glow starter.  Better for starting flooded engines, and cheap as s**t in times of no money.

Bananna plugs fit nicely into 3/16" diameter brass tube.  So, solder lengths of tube to a pair of batteries, + to + and - to -.  Wrap the assembly in cardboard and then electrical tape.  Put bananna plugs on your glowplug clip leads -- and you're done.

[Chris Fretz]

Ha ha I win! Thanks!

Chris

[John Rist]

I have been doing that for years.  The only problem is that the newer dry cells have pressure fitted end caps.  When you solder to them they no longer make contact.  The last set I made I had to cut off the positive end cap and solder direct to the post under it.  I use 4 d cells and they last for several years.  However I don't fly that much.  For most it it should last a year and it is always ready.  Never needs charging.   

[Tim Wescott]

The last set I made I had to cut off the positive end cap and solder direct to the post under it.

Huh.  Is it by brand d'ya think, or should I just expect to have to do it no matter what?  (I need to make one soon).

[Phil Krankowski]

Order one from
Coxengines.ca
https://coxengines.ca/cox-starter-battery-box-with-clip.html
or get some single cell battery holders and make your own with some binding posts for the banana plugs. 

I went overkill and made a 3 D-cell starter.  It doubles as a brick for my wing wrap stooge.

Phil

[George Albo]

I am surprised to hear three cells in parallel. I would've thought the plug would burn out. What type of plug are you running? What type of wear and tear does that put on a plug?

Thanks.
George

[Tim Wescott]

I am surprised to hear three cells in parallel. I would've thought the plug would burn out. What type of plug are you running? What type of wear and tear does that put on a plug?

The temperature of a heating element like a glow plug is self-limiting if you put a constant voltage on it.  Putting more and more dry cells in parallel doesn't increase the voltage of the pack, it just reduces the amount that the voltage sags from 1.5V as more current is drawn.  Putting a bunch of dry cells in series could mess up a glow plug, but that's not what's being discussed.

So the answer to your "what type of plug are you running?" is -- it doesn't matter.

And the answer to "what type of wear and tear does that put on the plug?" is -- nothing, really.

[bob whitney]

now I know why my 6 pack wouldn't work

[Phil Krankowski]

I wanted 4 but could only get 3 single D-cell trays at that time.  Yes, they are wired in parallel.  I also pull the batteries out after flying since if one battery, for some reason is low, will draw the others down, eventually.  

When I was in middle school we bound a set of 4 D cells in parallel with electrical tape and heavy bare wire.  Sometimes the pack would be dead overnight, or at least over a week, but most would last all summer.

I also made a tray that uses 2 AA batteries.  It works rather well, even with rechargeable NiMH batteries.

Phil

[Tim Wescott]

Phil, I'm kinda surprised that a tray would give good enough connections to carry the current.  I solder on, for that reason.

[Phil Krankowski]

Each holder has a separate lead to the binding post.  From the binding post I have lamp cord (#18 wire?) to the clip.  Banana plugs of course so it is easy to take apart.  I don't recall changing the wires anywhere, just mounting it to a block of wood with some black plastic to make it pretty.

As the spring and chrome contacts they are pretty equivalent to what is inside the replaceable battery pocket size starters.  Those just use a single AA NIMH and are good for a day worth of flying. 

I really think this is a case of "years ago it was massive" followed by something similar with more modern stuff.  With long wire runs there are huge losses in electrical systems that are undersized.  It could also be that I have 3 D cells in my system and it is suitably oversized.

The website still lists them, but there is no radio shack anywhere close to me anymore.
https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-d-battery-holder-1

Phil

[Brett Buck]

Phil, I'm kinda surprised that a tray would give good enough connections to carry the current.  I solder on, for that reason.

   You could solder on the leads as well, since the battery will last about a year. Then just cut them off and solder them to the next pack.

     Brett

[Tim Wescott]

Except that I swap one pack between 1/2A and big guns.  And yes, I could just make up two packs.

[john e. holliday]

How well do C cells hold up in the head lock type igniters work.   I have 2 that have dead rechargeable C cells that won't charge.

[Phil Krankowski]

How well do C cells hold up in the head lock type igniters work.   I have 2 that have dead rechargeable C cells that won't charge.

If it can come apart I would replace the cell with an appropriate replacement.
http://www.onlybatteries.com/
these guys have almost anything and reasonable prices.  I have ordered from them before with good results.

Phil

[Terrence Durrill]

How well do C cells hold up in the head lock type igniters work.   I have 2 that have dead rechargeable C cells that won't charge.

                    I have several of the C and D cell head lock type igniters.  They seem to hold up just fine and I thinks you will find them quite satisfactory for your purposes.         

[George Albo]

The temperature of a heating element like a glow plug is self-limiting if you put a constant voltage on it.  Putting more and more dry cells in parallel doesn't increase the voltage of the pack, it just reduces the amount that the voltage sags from 1.5V as more current is drawn.  Putting a bunch of dry cells in series could mess up a glow plug, but that's not what's being discussed.

So the answer to your "what type of plug are you running?" is -- it doesn't matter.

And the answer to "what type of wear and tear does that put on the plug?" is -- nothing, really.
 

I did not know this. Thanks for the info.

[John Rist]

The website still lists them, but there is no radio shack anywhere close to me anymore.
https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-d-battery-holder-1

Phil

That is so weird.  All of the Radio Shacks have closed in Huntsville AL.  Yet one is still open in Ardmore, Alabama. No more than a wide spot in the road.  I guess the big box stores in Huntsville wiped them out.  I wounder how Radio Shack shipping cost stack up?

[Robert Zambelli]

Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote for Control Line World a few years back. I am still using the box and I can get an entire season out of four "D" cells.

"Gadgets!!! We all love them and while some are just cool and somewhat useless, there are those that really do work. That glow plug perched on top of the cylinder head is a great little item as long as you have a means to light it off. This brings us to igniters. The two most popular are the rechargeable Ni-Cad drivers that attach directly to the plug and the good old 4-cell hobby battery, the latter employing a plug attachment device connected to the battery with a wire. They both work well until the inevitable happens: You forgot to charge the Ni-Cad or your hobby battery shorted out and it’s completely useless.
Enter the B.L.R.B: Bob’s little red box.

Simply stated, it’s a holder for four “D” size dry cells that are set up in parallel (1.5 VDC total) and very easy to change. Furthermore, it has a simple phone jack that allows use of a number of different glow plug connectors or alligator clips. Check out the photos.

I fabricated the box from some 3/16 plywood, glued and pegged. Note the partition that keeps the cells in place. I then soldered four little compression springs to a brass strip and using a short length of wire, connected the strip to one terminal of the phone jack. The springs bear against the negative ends of the cells. Another strip without springs engages the positive ends of the cells and a short wire connects it to the other terminal of the jack.  The two contact strips are attached with small screws or bolts. Now, get yourself a mating 2-pole phone plug, wire up your glow plug connector(s) of choice and you're in business. The piece of string that goes under two cells makes them easier to remove. I picked up some little brass hinges and clasps at the neighborhood hardware store but any means of keeping the lid closed is suitable. A small piece of foam under the lid keeps the cells in place. After you build the box and install four cells (I use ONLY the Eveready Energizers) you’re set for a lot of use before they need replacement. Also, you should pick up a spare pack of four new cells and keep them in your car. When the originals need replacement, it takes about a minute.
A few more things to mention. Note how flat the box is – it just slides comfortably under the wing. Also, you can choose other sizes or numbers of cells. Two would probably go for an entire season or, for that matter, you could use “C” cells instead. Just tailor it to your flying needs."

You get to the field, your battery’s dead – NO PROBLEM. Just go to the local drug store or Walmart and pick up four Energizers (NOT Dura-Cells)

[Phil Krankowski]

I wish I saw that a couple years ago.  I would have gone that route with binding posts instead of a jack. 

Phil

[Andre Ming]

Robert:

Nifty. I'm also a dry-cell believer.

Curious: Why Energizer over Duracell?

In my electronic applications, Duracell's seem to give the best longevity. However, my opinion/findings aren't "scientific". I'd be interested in hearing your experiences/etc.

[EddyR]

I replaced my NiCad battery with a NiMH in my clip on glow starter. It never seems to need charging. It has a lot more current rating than the old NiCad. I had to remove the plastic sleeve to get it to fit. Cost about $7-9.
Ed

[Avaiojet]

Really a great Thread.

I don't do anything "Electric" well, even simple things. 

But, could a flashlight case work?

Anyone converting a flashlight case?

CB

[Bill Johnson]

$2.80
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-D-BATTERY-HOLDER-270-386-RadioShack-Factory-Sealed/122498475730?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D8028d528b962437db607c077646dd3ac%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D11%26sd%3D272606701531

[Gary Mondry]

A buyer just needs to be aware that battery holders like these are typically wired in series and will have to be reworked unless they have been modified specifically for glow plug boost by the seller (such as the Cox unit).

[Paul Smith]

Dry cells and Nicads can work some of the time on some glow plugs.  But 1.5 volts is not always enough.

With a power panel & a 12 volt battery you can read the meter and dial in the amount of glow you need. 

Better to spend $50-$60 and enjoy flying.

[Steve Thompson]

I have always used a GloBee Fire Plug battery but like this idea.  Dry cells have been used by many with success.

I too am curious about why no Dura-cell batteries.  I used to be a Dura-cell fan but have switched to Energizers.  I have had about 4 different cases recently where Dura-cells leaked their juice and caused an icky mess and corrosion.  Maybe they changed their battery chemistry?

[Fredvon4]

Funny how frugal some are with the glow starter and yet have literally $$$ to $$$$ in the engine, $$$ to $$$$ in the plane---- and burn about and much fuel in a month as I do in a year

Like some here that think the best of the best Tach is a fairly sophisticated $135 instrument.

 I tend to think the expense of a RCATS computer controlled glow igniter is well worth the bucks...   

I don't own one, but Darrol Cady ( current source for the good
  Fromeco TNC's tach) also has a pro igniter that I have seen in use

I will never go back to primary cells... one or many in parallel...ever

MY RCATS will work on every plug in any circumstance except one that is a open circuit

Freddy

Blowing Cox glow heads since 1958

yea, sorry I am a bit crabby today....

I know some one here is gonna bust my chops...that's fine but I have been to many many contests and watched guy after guy fail to start and beg borrow good igniters

Then at a Bladder grabber, I noticed NO ONE had any staring problems beyond not being primed properly....almost 100 % had an RCATS igniter

went home...note to self...save hobby $$ for one of those doo hickies

[Phil Krankowski]

On a slightly different topic, leaky batteries are why I have decided to NEVER use disposable batteries in my good flashlights ever again.  I lost both my good AA Maglights and my D Maglight over leaking batteries.  It doesn't matter the brand, alkaline batteries are more prone to leaking than Nimh batteries.

Low draw led lamps seem to exacerbate this problem since the batteries when drawn down more slowly seem to expand more.  I am unsure of WHY.

As a second point of interest, if you do have batteries jammed in an expensive metal body flashlight PUT IT IN THE FREEZER BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE!  About 4-8 hours in a freezer, or better still a deep freeze can loosen the batteries.  The outside of the flashlight can have hot tap water run over it to further increase the looseness.  A block of soft wood, such as common 2x4 can then shock the batteries out of the case and allow for cleaning to save the flashlight.

Phil

[Fredvon4]

I her you Phil

I got a great deal decades ago on my Mag lites...well before the LED versions... and was greatly aggravated when I lost one to corrosion... rendered one 5 cell into just a good head beating baton

I still have many of them but have an annual check n change battery regimen

I guess it is time to look into LED and NIMH conversion for them,,, thanks for the reminder

[dave siegler]

Tim,

This is a great idea.  The banana jacks fit perfectly in 3/16 brass tubing.  Real secure,  better than most banana jacks.

There are a few kids and newbies in our group that struggle with the little clip on ignitior.  I am going to set it up for them.

I have a hobby king lipo that I use most of the time.  It has a voltage regulator, and I can charge in in my car. 

[Brett Buck]

On a slightly different topic, leaky batteries are why I have decided to NEVER use disposable batteries in my good flashlights ever again.  I lost both my good AA Maglights and my D Maglight over leaking batteries.  It doesn't matter the brand, alkaline batteries are more prone to leaking than Nimh batteries.

   That certainly seems to be the case, and I have yet to run across a case were a rechargable battery leaked and damaged something. Duracell seems to be by far the worst of the major manufacturers for leaking. This is a big topic on the transistor radio section of Antique Radio Forum, with the same story over and over again.

    At least alkaline electrolyte doesn't corrode the metal like the old acid-based zinc/carbon penlight batteries.

    Brett

[Chris Fretz]

I got her built. http://www.ebay.com/itm/162133238749
 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[bob whitney]

this works great .used one the whole week at Brodaks even with Nelson H/D plugs

[Chris Fretz]

I agree I've run a bunch of flights on mine so far.  Thanks Tim.

[Paul Smith]

A flyer in our area used to make dry cell packs with C or D cells held together with many strong rubber bands.  The connectors were strips of K&S brass soldered to the leads.  The shell was part of the card board box that the cells were sold in.  The comression fo the rubber bands was more than enough to make solid contact.

The advantage of this setup was airline travel.  He saved the weight and possible hassle of carrying batteries on the airplane and simply bought them at the destination.

[Dwayne]

I've bean using 4 D cells since the 70's when I took apart a Cox battery and saw that's all they were, 4 D cells. All I do is strip some wire and tape them to the batteries , no muss no fuss.

[Dwayne]

I am surprised to hear three cells in parallel. I would've thought the plug would burn out. What type of plug are you running? What type of wear and tear does that put on a plug?

Thanks.
George

The old Cox starter battery was 4 D cells.

[john e. holliday]

I'm going to have to make up one of these.   I now remember many, many years ago when I went out to make first flights on a plane.  It was cold and my dry cell was dead.  My older brother grabbed the flash light out of his car and held my battery leads to the cells.   Engine fired off in just a couple of flips.

[Mike Anderson]

Really a great Thread.

I don't do anything "Electric" well, even simple things. 

But, could a flashlight case work?

Anyone converting a flashlight case?

CB

This won't work with a common flashlight - a flashlight uses cells in series, rather than parallel.  Output of a 2-cell flashlight is 3 volts, so goodbye glow plug.  Some of the modern LED flashlights have AA battery holders that might be wired in some combination of series/parallel but you wouldn't be saving any money or time over just soldering directly to the battery cells.

[john e. holliday]

It works if you take the batteries out of the flash light and have extra hands to help hold things.  My brothers taught me a lot, but not when to keep my mouth shut.

[FLOYD CARTER]

I start by saying, this glo starter is VERY robust, and costs $2.95 at your local hardware store.

You can buy those 1.5 colt "square" hobby batteries at your LHS..but very expensive.

Go with Eveready #1209.  This is a "square" battery pack made of 4 large cells.  They are wired in series, giving 6 volts.  You pry open the top and bottom cardboard covers, and re-wire the 4 cells in parallel for 1.5 volts.

They are rated at 12 Amp-Hours.  This will run a glo plug for a very long time.

The cells are larger than the usual "D", giving long life.

Floyd

[Brett Buck]

The cells are larger than the usual "D", giving long life.

   They are "F" cells, originally used as filament batteries for portable tube radios (along with 60 "pancake" cells for the 90V B+). The whole battery was the size and weight of two bricks.

    Brett


p.s. I did a little digging, and the alkaline version has 4 F cells with *26* amp-hours of capacity. That's something like *10 hours* of glow-plug time - for each of 4 cells. Hook them in series and you get 40 hours of lighting a glow plug. Not bad for 6 dollars and 10 minutes of soldering and duct tape work.

     
   

[Steve Helmick]

There are two disadvantages to NiMh batteries. They don't hold a charge nearly as long as a NiCad, and they are a lot lighter than Alkaline cells of similar size.

How's the light weight a disadvantage? I once splurged and bought myself a MagLight flashlight for the truck (after I decided not to carry a hand canon under the seat anymore). With the NiMh batteries, it was way too light to be a good attitude adjuster, in case of emergency. A 5 cell might have been ok, but not 3 cell. I wasn't about to carry a rolling pin.  Steve

[RknRusty]

I replaced my NiCad battery with a NiMH in my clip on glow starter. It never seems to need charging. It has a lot more current rating than the old NiCad. I had to remove the plastic sleeve to get it to fit. Cost about $7-9.
Ed

Me too, Ed. The sub-c 4400mah NiMH gives an hour and a half of solid lighting time. And unlike the NiCd(1300mah., with 20 puny minutes of lighting time) that comes in the igniter, you Can top off the NiMH cells between uses without developing a memory or reducing the service life... so long as you don't over-charge it so much as to warm the battery.

Like Ed says, you have to strip the plastic off the cell so it fits into the igniter.

I carry two in my pockets at contests, a main one and a backup one. I've never had to switch.
Rusty

[Tim Wescott]

This was my project a few weeks back.  Inspired by web sites like this one.

[Mark Mc]

This was my project a few weeks back.  Inspired by web sites like this one.

I was enjoying your battery this afternoon at the picnic at Delta Park...

Mark

[Mark Mc]

Each holder has a separate lead to the binding post.  From the binding post I have lamp cord (#18 wire?) to the clip.  Banana plugs of course so it is easy to take apart.  I don't recall changing the wires anywhere, just mounting it to a block of wood with some black plastic to make it pretty.

As the spring and chrome contacts they are pretty equivalent to what is inside the replaceable battery pocket size starters.  Those just use a single AA NIMH and are good for a day worth of flying. 

I really think this is a case of "years ago it was massive" followed by something similar with more modern stuff.  With long wire runs there are huge losses in electrical systems that are undersized.  It could also be that I have 3 D cells in my system and it is suitably oversized.

The website still lists them, but there is no radio shack anywhere close to me anymore.
https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-d-battery-holder-1

Phil

These are what I've been using for the past four years.  I initially bought four holders and put them together, but finally decided that four was silly and too bulky, two work just fine.  The great thing about these holders is the hole at each corner.  It lets me fasten two of these back-to-back with zip ties.  I put the batteries in the holder when I get to the field, and remove them at the end of the day and put them in their slots in my field box.  I've always used Duracel batteries.  Never had a problem...





Mark