Author Topic: CableStrand(Fly-by-Wire/RSM) or MBS for bulk lines? (Read 11071 times)

Brent Williams · « **on:** May 24, 2016, 02:10:11 PM »

I need to pick up a bulk reel of .015 7-strand. Just curious about the various options out there. I have been using a set of very nicely made brown colored lines that were made by the late Bob Pitkin at Stellar Specialties. I wonder if he used the brown Accustrand?

Any strong opinions out there for or against any of these options?

- I have read good things about the lines from MBS. http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/
- The Tom Morris/stunthangerhobby line is/are said to be good.

- CableStrand offers the "fly-by-wire" brand of lines that can be purchased on ebay or at RSM.

Cablestrand also offers thier product in a camo color that is marketed under their fishing section as AccuStrand.

Quote

This is a brand new 1,000 foot spool of 30 pound Accustrand. Accustrand is made up of 7 strands of American drawn stainless steel wire. This product is not covered in nylon. After tightly stranding the wire into a 1x7 configuration, this wire is then heat treated which gives it a camouflage color and prevents the wire from kinking and fraying. This wire is exceptionally strong and has a minimum break strength of 30 lbs. The overall outside diameter of this wire is .015".

Brent Williams · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2016, 02:16:53 PM »

Here are the nicely made lines from the late Bob Pitkin at Stellar Specialties.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2016, 02:22:17 PM »

I do not know if my experience is common,
I have a spool of .015 from MBS, Its great, no issue, no problems
I have a spool of .018 from Fly By Wire, when I make up lines with this I have to walk each line out several times to get rid of the excess twist in it. Its a pain and when they lay on the ground the first time around or so they are kind of kinky or not straight

Paul Walker · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2016, 02:23:58 PM »

MBS

MBS

MBS

bill bischoff · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2016, 02:25:25 PM »

Buy from MBS. Never an issue with the wire, and I like to support guys who support the hobby.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2016, 02:32:07 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on May 24, 2016, 02:23:58 PM

MBS

MBS

MBS

Hey some of us learn the hard way
hard way
hard way
lol

Howard Rush · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2016, 03:18:51 PM »

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2016, 05:35:09 PM »

What the usual suspects said-MBS all de way.
Doug

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2016, 05:43:05 PM »

Only bulk line purchase I've made was from RSM, and I was pleased with it. Wherever you get it, I strongly recommend shiny silver line, because it shows up better on grass, asphalt and concrete...in the pits, where it is most likely to get damaged.

Steve

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2016, 06:15:47 PM »

Purchased the" Fly By Wire" brand on Amazon last year. Drove me bananas as there were numerous overlaps. Wasted many feet trying to get it off the spool.

Frustrated, so I bought the MBS stranded and like everyone says, it is real good stuff.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2016, 06:47:28 PM »

so,, uh, anybody want to buy a partial spool of FLy by Wire .018

George Truett · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2016, 07:12:30 PM »

I'm going to need some .018 before long, pm me the specifics on what you have. I bought a spool of the .015 and have had no problems. George

mike londke · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2016, 07:30:51 PM »

Fly by Wire is JUNK! Spend the extra few dollars and buy from MBS.

Rick Bollinger · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2016, 08:28:10 PM »

I had all kinds of problems with the Fly by wire .015 bad twisting. Got a spool of MBS Great stuff no problems.

Geoff Goodworth · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2016, 08:33:58 PM »

Just a suggestion. Even here in Oz, I use MBS.

I have two rolls of each thinkness. I make up the terminations on the ends of both rolls, roll out the lengths, set the length, roll the lines onthe the spool I'm planning to use, then adjourn to theworkshop to make up the new ends.

Keith Miller · « **Reply #15 on:** May 24, 2016, 09:55:56 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on May 24, 2016, 02:22:17 PM

I do not know if my experience is common,
I have a spool of .015 from MBS, Its great, no issue, no problems
I have a spool of .018 from Fly By Wire, when I make up lines with this I have to walk each line out several times to get rid of the excess twist in it. Its a pain and when they lay on the ground the first time around or so they are kind of kinky or not straight

Your experience IS common. I've knotted up 2 sets of lines from Fly-By-Wire and agree with you 100% that the lines need to be individually laid out and pulled/relaxed. MBS line seems to be properly relaxed before they spool it up.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:40:30 AM »

I have used both the MBS and the RSM bulk lines (but not the brown type, the silver type). I tested the two and I couldn't tell any difference in any way. I wouldn't be surprised if Eric and Melvin got the regular lines from the same place. I am currently using the MBS cable. It's not the same as the Pylon/Sullivan line, which are also good - although, beware that some batches of the Sullivan .018 lines are marginally small, which might get you burned if they are measuring them. Last undersize ones I saw were many years ago, but I suspect that all their sets are NOS from decades ago.

All versions of the brown lines (the 7-strand and 19 strand) have had nothing but issues. The 19-strand types are particularly prone to issues where a single strand will just pop out of the bundle and form a small loop. There are apparently a lot of different things people try to fix it or work around it by pre-tensioning it, or special end techniques, but to me, it wasn't worth it if you could use the regular lines and not have to think about it. There's nothing worse than being all ready to go, run out your lines for a flight, and find a snag or some issue, and then have to scramble. And, as noted, they are darn near impossible to see on the ground.

Brett

john e. holliday · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2016, 10:13:36 AM »

Go with the majority. MBS wire and cable is used world wide.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2016, 11:14:09 AM »

Guess I'm the oddball (no comments, Scarborough). I buy lines in bulk from McMaster-Carr. .018 7 strand or .018 19 strand. I have both. Very reasonable cost.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2016, 12:23:27 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 25, 2016, 11:14:09 AM

Guess I'm the oddball (no comments, Scarborough). I buy lines in bulk from McMaster-Carr. .018 7 strand or .018 19 strand. I have both. Very reasonable cost.

Dude, I would never comment about your eccentricity,, I hang out with you so that would make me guilty by association,,

NED-088 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2016, 01:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on May 25, 2016, 11:14:09 AM

Guess I'm the oddball (no comments, Scarborough). I buy lines in bulk from McMaster-Carr. .018 7 strand or .018 19 strand. I have both. Very reasonable cost.

Oddball? Not in my book.

After all, you're still flying stainless steel lines.

I'm flying Staystrate from PAW; .015 3 strand tinned piano wire. A lot less springy than anything stainless I tried. Way more direct control.
The only lines I found similar in feel were the solids Bob Hunt had on his first electric Genesis, back at the WCh 2006.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2016, 02:25:41 PM »

It rains up here,,
no.... it rains,,,,, a lot

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** May 25, 2016, 03:11:00 PM »

I was told one time it wasn't rain. It is ground level cloud.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2016, 05:54:33 PM »

Order thusly placed.
M.B.S. it shall then be.
Anticipation.

A haiku for the expectant.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2016, 08:12:34 PM »

Yea, solids are just a bad idea around here. I've used Staystraight lines. Keep them.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #25 on:** May 26, 2016, 04:56:20 AM »

The PAW Staystrate is extremely good stuff and it is made for aeromodellers by aeromodellers. I would use it everytime, except that it is quite expensive. I normally buy Melvin's wire in bulk and this is both excellent and fairly inexpensive. I would vote for MBS everytime and I have to import it to the UK.

Andrew.

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #26 on:** May 26, 2016, 08:14:53 AM »

I kept hoping some one would ask........contact info for MBS?

No one asked, so I am forced to reveal my ignorance:)

Jim

Brent Williams · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2016, 08:19:48 AM »

Quote from: Jim Oliver on May 26, 2016, 08:14:53 AM

I kept hoping some one would ask........contact info for MBS?

No one asked, so I am forced to reveal my ignorance:)

Jim

http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/
http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/Catalog.pdf

MBS Model Supply
P.O. Box 282
Auburn, KS 66402-0282
Phone: (After 5p.m. Central time or weekends only)
(785)256-2583 Cell: (785)221-7042

Larry Renger · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2016, 05:33:26 PM »

I have also experienced spin on the Fly by Wire material. After running one line out and cutting it off, it took half an hour to unravel the end that balled itself up. And about a foot unravled in the process!

Next set of lines, I left the far end free to spin, and it went much better. Mind you it traveled all over the lanscape while spinning, but since the ends had allready been served, it didn't unravel. But still this is a pain in the @$$! mw~J

john e. holliday · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2016, 07:36:04 PM »

Don't have that problem with MBS lines. And he uses what he sells.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #30 on:** May 31, 2016, 05:13:15 PM »

Quick turnaround on my order.
I placed my order on the 25th and the package arrived on the 28th.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #31 on:** May 31, 2016, 07:40:17 PM »

I just completed an informal pull test of .012, .015, .018, .021 and .024 flying lines and had some interesting results

The .012 is rated hold 20 lbs and the wire snapped at 30.5 lbs
The .015 is rated hold 30 lbs and the wire snapped at 45.0 lbs
The .018 is rated hold 45 lbs and the wire snapped at 45.0 lbs **
The .021 is rated hold 60 lbs and the wire snapped at 80.0 lbs
The .024 is rated hold 90 lbs and the wire was loaded to 105 lbs and I heard some minor popping, but wire did not break

** The reason for mentioning this is that the .018 wire was the Fly-by-wire brand, while it did pass at 37 lbs it did fail at 45 lbs while the other line material exceeded the advertised maximum load.

The .015 line was an old set of lines I got from a club member so I have no idea where he got them, all of the other line material tested was from MBS.

Another line that was tested was the .022 solids from MBS which was loaded to 122 lbs with out any failures at all. The .022 solids are rated to handle 125 lbs maximum load, we use these on the 12-20 lbs CL scale models.

After running this informal test I will only use the MBS line material.

Fred

Randy Powell · « **Reply #32 on:** June 01, 2016, 09:35:10 AM »

And, of course, you have two lines so the load is split.

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #33 on:** June 01, 2016, 04:21:16 PM »

Yes this pull test was with a single line which was the worst case, the heavy CL scale models we fly only pull maybe 60 lbs max which is 30 lbs per line when you have two lines.

Fred

Motorman · « **Reply #34 on:** August 18, 2016, 01:30:55 PM »

I got some (rsm) Fly by Wire 7 strand .015 cable and when I measured it out and cut it to length it UNTWISTED ahhhh! Lost about 2' before I realized what was happening. Luckily I was making a 65' set so I can save it for a 60' set. If you use this put some masking tape on it before you cut it. Personally I would avoid using that stuff.

Just ordered a 1000' roll from MBS. Also, MBS is allot less expensive, win win.

MM

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** August 18, 2016, 04:33:27 PM »

You haven't been reading. MBS is the only place for solid wire or cable. Remember he competes with what he sells.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #36 on:** August 19, 2016, 11:29:56 AM »

Is RSM cable the same as "Fly-by-Wire", or is Eric being judged guilty by association? I've only bought .015" and .018" bulk spools from RSM and had zero problems with it. I like it, and would order it from Eric again. I likely did not comparison shop, but it's been quite a few years...probably 15+....since I bought what I've got. I've been buying Tom Morris lines for about the last 8 years.

I don't know Melvin, haven't ever bought anything from MBS, but am sure their stuff is fine. What payment options do you have to pay for an order at MBS? I ordered from RSM by email and paid with a Visa card; no problemo.

Steve

Brett Buck · « **Reply #37 on:** August 19, 2016, 11:37:40 AM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on August 19, 2016, 11:29:56 AM

Is RSM cable the same as "Fly-by-Wire", or is Eric being judged guilty by association? I've only bought .015" and .018" bulk spools from RSM and had zero problems with it. I like it, and would order it from Eric again.

I have bought cable from RSM/Eric in the past, with no issues. It was the same as Sullivan, as far as I can tell, just fine. I probably won the 06 NATS with RSM .018 seven-strand. Take nothing I have said as any sort of knock on RSM. The only lines I have seen issues with is the 19-strand brown type.

Brett

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #38 on:** August 19, 2016, 12:02:51 PM »

Brett, I was actually referring to the topic title...which appears to lump "Fly-by-Wire" together with RSM, possibly indicating that they are one & the same. I just don't know if there is any connection or not. If there is a connection, that would be good info, but without any confirmation, it makes RSM look guilty by association, and that's just not right.

I'm not a fan of eBay, Amazon, and when I absolutely have to use PayPal, I bribe somebody to do it for me. Cash talks!

Steve

Brent Williams · « **Reply #39 on:** August 19, 2016, 12:09:12 PM »

RSM is currently listed as the U.S. authorized re-seller on Cablestrand's Fly-By-Wire website.
Not sure if Eric's current or past product is different in any way. I know of several folks who use RSM's product with success.

http://www.cablestrand.com/?s=rsm&task=search

Quote

...these items can be purchased at www.ebay.com, www.wightsmodelaircraft.com.au, or at www.rsmdistribution.com. We are continuing to look for new re-sellers for Fly-By-Wire, and if you would be interested in becoming a re-seller, please contact us at cablestrand.corp@verizon.net. There is a minimum purchase order of $500 if you would like to become one of our re-sellers.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #40 on:** August 19, 2016, 12:34:07 PM »

But is "CableStrand" = "Fly-by-Wire"? It could be that Eric bought some CableStrand and decided it was crap, but he's still listed on CableStrand's website as a vendor. Maybe he would like them to remove RSM from their vendor list but can't get them to do it? Short of hiring a lawyer, what can you do?

I have found that websites are not all updated regularly, and the person who updates them is sometimes a "hired gun" who know websites...but don't know anything about what the website is selling or about. Some modern store websites show inventory stocks, and they are not always correct. Likely somebody entered data wrong, or an employee "needed some of that".

Steve

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #41 on:** August 19, 2016, 12:41:04 PM »

I too have purchased bulk lines from RSM (Eric), both .018 and 015 several times in the past and have had no issues or problems. This is a good product and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone!

I would also add that Eric also uses what he sells and is a true gentleman and always stands behind his products! The don't come any better!

Randy Cuberly

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #42 on:** August 19, 2016, 01:09:16 PM »

Tom Morris is more pricey. Accurately cut, finished ends on a reel with a clip. Lots of us who can cut and bind wind up buying these.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brent Williams · « **Reply #43 on:** August 19, 2016, 01:50:21 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on August 19, 2016, 12:34:07 PM

But is "CableStrand" = "Fly-by-Wire"?

Yes, Cablestrand = Fly-By-Wire.

Fly-By-Wire is a brand/division of Cablestrand.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2016, 02:06:51 PM »

I suspect that the problem with fly by wire comes from the way they transfer it to the smaller spools rather than some inherant issue with the cable itself.
Just a theory

Fred Underwood · « **Reply #45 on:** August 19, 2016, 02:27:11 PM »

I have spools of both. Started with Fly by Wire and noticed less twists in the line as they came off of the spool, and a significant tendency to unwind the twists when cut. There are previous threads on SH with the same tendency noted, untwisting of the lines when cut, and similar when you roll out the made lines if an end is disconnected. In a blink, 3 feet can untwist when cut. MBS lines retain the twists and are easier to make up.

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #46 on:** August 19, 2016, 03:26:15 PM »

What about Brodak Lines?

Martin

Brett Buck · « **Reply #47 on:** August 20, 2016, 06:10:59 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on August 19, 2016, 12:02:51 PM

Brett, I was actually referring to the topic title...which appears to lump "Fly-by-Wire" together with RSM, possibly indicating that they are one & the same. I just don't know if there is any connection or not. If there is a connection, that would be good info, but without any confirmation, it makes RSM look guilty by association, and that's just not right.

Yes, I get that, but since I don't know of (and before this thread, never heard of) Fly-By-Wire lines, I could only add that all the cable I got from RSM was of equal quality to the kind I got from MBS. That was a while ago but it looked the same to me.

Brett

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #48 on:** August 20, 2016, 08:45:37 PM »

Could there be a chance that CableStrand might have some different specs on heat treat/normalizing after the twisting process is done? That could 'splain the difference. Then, which spec does "Fly-by-Wire" sell?

If I can find my bulk spools from RSM, I'll see if they have a brand name on them, or any other specification info. I know that McMaster-Carr has cables available in a few different materials, so it seems possible to me.

Regarding Tom Morris lines...yes, they're a few dollars more than ready to use Sullivan or Sig lines. I think the wrapped/vs. crimped subject has been covered, and I have my mind made up on that score.

Steve

dave siegler · « **Reply #49 on:** August 21, 2016, 08:22:13 PM »

So I was give several spools of wire that has the same behavior. It came from a commercial supplier who I wont name but probably the same ones Melvin, RSM and everyone else is buying them from.

I think there are only a few manufactures of this wire. They may wind it different depending on the customer specifications.

I think the lines were wound on the spool from the end, rather than winding them on the spool ,and that causes the problem.

From my experience winding Kevlar, sometimes the spool is stationary and the line is wrapped on the spool, sometimes the spool spins.

My first attempt was to go down and back around a fence post. I did not restrain the cut end and had a tangled mess.

After I screwed up that set I can now make line sets by following the process below. It releases the built in twists in a controlled way.

1) put a termination on the line
2) Hook the end over a nail and run out your length + 12"
3) Hold the free end tightly in one hand. DO NOT let GO.
4) Cut the wire offset cutters or real good diagonal cutters. Make sure you cut ALL the strands DO NOT LET GO of the free end! it its frayed cut it again.
5) use the other hand to grip the wire about 4' from end. take the slack out of the wire so it cant tangle.
6) slowly loosen the grip from the free end but using both hands restrain it and let the residual twists undo themselves. DO NOT let the wire snarl up.
7) Put the other termination on

walk out any few twists that might be there.
9) repeate

I may waste a few inches of wire and it takes extra time. But the wire is fine and the method works.

I wonder if a little ca on wires in the extra cutoff wire would prevent the cut end from fraying.

I did breaking tests and this wire matches the specs to the limit of my pull tests.