Author Topic: Brian Gardner ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets for Fox MK IV and VI (Read 10003 times)

Fredvon4 · « **on:** October 17, 2015, 01:13:47 PM »

In side the thread about Fox 36X ABC piston/liner/rod/pin sets, I had asked Brian about sets for the Fox combat MK IV and VI engines

As is his process, it depends a lot on demand, or better said, committed pre orders in the 15~20 range

Since we have a lot of discussion in a few threads about old skool combat designs I decided to post this to see if more like me have a collection of the Fox MK engines they would like to get more life from

In my case I was looking for Nelson 36s two years ago and several of you pointed me to the Fox MK engines. Eventually Marvin Denny sent me a PM offering to help. ( I miss the man I never met...we had great phone conversations and I learned a lot from him that way in the brief time I was acquainted with him)

I bought, (out of his famous "junk barrel") 6 Fox MK IVs with MK VI internals and whatever massaging Marvin did to them. I sort of doubt I would ever fly enough to wear them out but I would like to have spare parts just in case I dork one or two deep in the dirt.

Also my 34 YO son is showing an interest in dads old guy hobby. Thus I think it would be cool if I left him Marvin's good engines with enough parts to use long after I am gone

OK gents....a lot of words to see if there is any interest to get Brian to run a set of his ABC parts for this series of Fox engines

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2015, 11:57:03 AM »

I would definitely be interested in at least two (2) sets for the MKIV...or MKVI internals if they are interchangeable without too much fuss.
I had and flew a lot of MKIV's but never any MKVI's because the Nelsons hit sometime around about that! Then I got too old and slow to be competitive and moved to Stunt!!

I have several MKIV's that could be resurected for some fun flying with new pistons and cylinders.

Yippie!

Randy Cuberly

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:50:18 PM »

I can make this happen if there are enough numbers.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2015, 03:43:59 PM »

Hey,
Surely there more people out there that want some of these! Make it known!

Randy Cuberly

Motorman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2015, 04:19:58 PM »

Why don't you make ABC sets for the OS LA 46.

MM

Lyle Spiegel · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2015, 04:50:32 PM »

As long as we are making suggestions, can we consider Johnson CS for an ABC setup? I don't know how many are out there, but I could use three. With growing popularity of vintage combat I would think a good number of JCS are candidates.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2015, 07:01:56 AM »

Hey folks

Brian Gardner is searchable on this site. Back a few years there are long posts on each of the new ABC sets he has put into small lot production.

Generally he needs about 15 to 20 committed pre orders, a new or excellent condition engine to take measurements from. He also gets a lot of "what if" or other suggestions from the group of potential customers regarding port timing, piston changes or rod dimensions etc...

Recently he has done Fox 36X sets and the folks that got them say they are easy to install and the engine is as good as or better than the factory configuration

As I stated in my original post, I got a bunch of Fox combat engines from Marvin Denny that I want to use well into the future and perhaps my son will also get 30 + years of use... I hope there is enough interest for Brian to make this happen and if the numbers are too low I might have to increase the # of sets I need

I have a Johnson CS on the way, and may try to find few others, after I play with a Johnson for the first time.
If there is a effort to ask Brian to support the Johnson I will get in for a set or two also

That said...for any who are adding wish list engines to be done by Brian, and there seems to be some interest...Please start a new thread about that particular engine and new ABC liner, piston, and rod sets

Also keep in mind that from initial interest--to getting enough pre orders-- to sending a test engine (to be returned to the owner)---to waiting on production time (other sets may be ahead and not fulfilled yet)--to final inspection and delivery from Australia to us can take from 6 months (fast) to over a year....

And also remember Brian like all of us...getting older and will eventually decide that his doing this For The Love of The Hobby (he don't hardly make squat doing these sets) is keeping him from enjoying retirement

I don't know of any other source to get some of these vintage engines some additional life

Since I am focused on vintage combat planes and period correct engines I selfishly want Brian to produce Fox MK, Johnson CS, K&B Green Head 35, and ST G21 35 etc...

Motorman · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2015, 08:43:09 AM »

If you want the best P/L for the Fox MK series call Glen Dye. He made an improved version that blows the Fox liner away. I've got 3-4 of them and the engine made so much power you couldn't keep a crank in them and I've seen cylinders blow completely off. He probably has them sitting on the self. You can also fit a Nelson 36 P/L with a little machine work but why, the Fox combat was a POS with bad metallurgy.

MM

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2015, 09:37:23 AM »

Interesting info, but not really my intention to try and eek mind blowing power out of Fox MK series engines.

I have a couple of Nelson 36c and they are too fast for my ability to fly these days, hence my diversion to nostalgia/vintage combat planes and period correct (or close to it) engines. All will be flown for sport and not competition

I simply desire replacements for some of the wear areas to make my stash of engines last another 30 years

But thanks for the post as some of the combat guys may be interested in blowing the jug off a Fox engine

Do you have current contact info for Glen Dye. He only posted 5 time here during 2007 and I doubt a PM would find him

Gordon Van Tighem · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2015, 10:13:00 AM »

I love talking Fox, but I am also hoping for a set for my OS Max 35S.
I am certain there are those among us who could use a little more life in their Max, so please let Brian know 'cause there are only 6 in line!
G
Sorry Randy I only have 35X's, and my Combat Special is almost new.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2015, 04:22:58 PM »

A new ABC setup for the OS LA46 would be great.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2015, 06:27:06 PM »

Sheesh!!!!

Randy Cuberly

bill bischoff · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2015, 07:41:50 PM »

How about a "ballpark" price?

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2015, 06:08:33 AM »

No way for Brian to give us specific price BUT most of his past efforts ended up in the $85 to $110 per set shipped

He creates a brass and chromed liner, new piston, wrist pin usually with buttons, new bushed rod...

And here in this thread, as we COLLECTIVELY discuss any modifications he can accommodate that too---- as long as all agree on the design modifications like a piston dome shape, narrower rod, port timing etc... AND the engineering makes sense from a production standpoint

I know I keep answering for Brian---I have to say I only know these (facts?) ideas from searching for and reading every thread on SH of his past completed projects. I am currently waiting for him to re-run the Fox 36X sets...so I am a new customer and have never held in my hand the sets he produces.

I suspect my next post will be to search for and list the links to his past productions discussed in these Stunt Hanger sub forums

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2015, 09:12:52 PM »

Guys, as Fred has mentioned very well here and answered (correctly) on my behalf. If we get enough commitment we can make ABC sets happen for many engines.

Good sample engines to measure up etc is a necessity. Alterations from original design is also possible as long as there is common consensus. For example the 36X had numerous port timings. We went with the input of guys who had a lot of experience with them. The current production run of ST51 sets has had my input and also input from Randy Smith.

I live on a disability pension these days and make very little out of this. I just do it for the love of the hobby and it gives me something positive to do. I cannot even fly myself anymore.

As for the questions about the LA46. That liner is way too thin to duplicate in an ABC form.

John Leidle · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2015, 10:18:29 PM »

Just what is the status for the .51 Tigers?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2015, 10:25:42 PM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on October 27, 2015, 09:12:52 PM

As for the questions about the LA46. That liner is way too thin to duplicate in an ABC form.

And besides:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCJ39&P=X

Out of production but parts still coming.

Brett

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2015, 12:52:09 AM »

Should be ready in coming weeks. Pretty excited about them.

Quote from: John Leidle on October 27, 2015, 10:18:29 PM

Just what is the status for the .51 Tigers?

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2015, 08:35:15 AM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on October 28, 2015, 12:52:09 AM

Should be ready in coming weeks. Pretty excited about them.

What's the price Brian, I've looked and didn't see anything, maybe missed it.

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »

Not certain of final price yet. Hopefully around similar price to the usual $115 Australian dolllars shipped.

Quote from: Randy Ryan on October 28, 2015, 08:35:15 AM

What's the price Brian, I've looked and didn't see anything, maybe missed it.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2015, 06:47:20 AM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on October 28, 2015, 04:30:40 PM

Not certain of final price yet. Hopefully around similar price to the usual $115 Australian dolllars shipped.

Thanks

tim lackey · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2015, 08:18:04 AM »

Put me on the list for a set

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 04, 2015, 10:00:32 AM »

I am assuming Tim wants a set for the Fox MK VI / IV

So 3 for me, 2 for Randy and 1 for Tim has us up to 6 sets

I would have thought a few of the vintage combat guys would like some, but I guess they have enough low time engines to last for a while

Over the last few years I have seen a bunch of ( and bought a few) very good condition MK VI many with the hop up parts already included, like the double bubble head, in the $100~$150 range.

Bottom line; these are not terribly rare engines so my desire for Brian's ABC sets was a long shot

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2015, 09:24:53 AM »

Bumping this to the top and to see if Brian can let us know how many are on a list for these via this thread or private mail

based on this thread 6 sets are not enough to get them made so I am semi bummed

Motorman · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2015, 11:37:07 AM »

Quote from: Brian Gardner on October 27, 2015, 09:12:52 PM

As for the questions about the LA46. That liner is way too thin to duplicate in an ABC form.

It works for OS and I'm sure there's no difference between nickle and chrome for the thickness of the liner but like Brett says there no demand just yet so, never mind.

MM

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #25 on:** December 03, 2015, 04:52:18 PM »

Guys, I've not had any pm's or emails regarding Fox MK IV etc. So it's just the numbers expressed here in this thread.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2016, 01:04:57 PM »

Bump up to see if there may be anyone in the new year thinking about the future and eeeking out long life on some of our on hand engines that are no longer supported by any one except Boca berings

If you are unsure... I believe from the feedback that brian's efforts are well worth it based on satisfaction on his previous projects like the ST 51, Fox .36x and others

Last year we had committed only 8 pre orders for the ABC piston/liner/rod sets for the combat Fox .36 MK iv/vi series---- but 20 sets are needed to make this happen.... we need 12 more pre orders for this project to happen

I know for a fact, because Brain told me so, that this professional service will cease soon----he (like most of us) is aging and desires to spend his final days enjoying life. This effort always was about helping and never was or is a money maker

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #27 on:** January 01, 2016, 03:56:16 PM »

Fred

you think any one would be interested in an ABC set up for the OS 46LA motors?

Just a thought

Carl

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2016, 07:28:14 AM »

Carl up above Motorman asked about the OS LA46 and later Brian said this (also above in this thread)

"As for the questions about the LA46. That liner is way too thin to duplicate in an ABC form"

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 28, 2016, 12:19:19 PM »

Last bump//// I promise

MarcusCordeiro · « **Reply #30 on:** January 31, 2016, 10:55:32 AM »

Me?

Marcus

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2016, 09:03:18 AM »

Markus

So far there are only 6 sets asked for and Brian needs around 20 pre orders

assuming you want one or to sets we are still a long way from getting this project considered

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2016, 09:00:45 AM »

UPdate before I send off a e-mail to Brian

I have received a few e-mails for Fox MK IV MK VI ABC sets bringing the pre orders up to 10

I would like Randy Cuberly, Tim Lackey, and MarcusCorderi to re confirm numbers desired f you gents don't mind

I have a benefactor here in Texas that would like a set or two and between us we agreed to fill this pre order up to the 20 needed by Brian

Basically I am taking a dare that I can resell those above my personal needs

So before Brian Gardner decides he has had enough of this service and fully retires I hope he accepts this job

Now we need to start discussing internal design changes

I have one Fox 36 MK VI sample that has never seen fuel (except at the factory) or mounted--- it is a true new in box sample engine to send Brian

One of the folks asked me privately about using a new sample set of the Willy Willy liner and piston

I don't have enough "back then" knowledge on what timing or port mods Marvin Denny did or what the differences in the various hop up changes were

I think Tindal Double Bubble head shape was a fairly common desire

I would like heads that are cut this way BUT can accept Nelson plugs

So as I negotiate with Brian to produce these we all need to collectively discuss what if any design changes we want

Seems to me from several calls back and forth with Marvin Denny that the Fox MK IV and MK VI internals were directly interchangeable. Marvin sent me a bunch of his Junk barrel engines and most were MK IV with the MK VI gutz according to his notes

tim lackey · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2016, 12:48:15 PM »

Yep still in

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 16, 2016, 09:53:46 AM »

E-Mail back and forth with Brian, this project is a go as soon as we decide on configuration

Replicate stock liner port timings, or Use a new set of Willey Wylie's piston, rod, and liner for a hotter set up as the sample to send Brian

I asked Brian about a split set...some stock line and some based on the Wylie liner

Economy of production suggest one or the other but possible to do a run of 10 stock and 10 Wiley

Do we need Tindal double bubble heads made or do we all have enough of this non wear part already?

Does anyone beside me desire a head button cut for a Nelson plug?

and desired design changes to the piston?

The Wylie Rod is a much beefier part that would work equally well in either liner so I think that is the wise way to go

So Randy, Marcus, Tim, Mike, what do you all think?

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #35 on:** February 16, 2016, 12:10:14 PM »

Fred,
Can you post some photos of the Wylie piston, liner and rod set. I would like to see how the ports are cut.
Thanks Al

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2016, 01:11:31 PM »

Al

I will do a trip down to my Buddy later this month and take photos

I have never seen the gutz of a Wylie engine

I will post them in this thread and PM them to you

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #37 on:** February 16, 2016, 03:36:01 PM »

Quote from: Fredvon4 on February 11, 2016, 09:00:45 AM

UPdate before I send off a e-mail to Brian

I have received a few e-mails for Fox MK IV MK VI ABC sets bringing the pre orders up to 10

I would like Randy Cuberly, Tim Lackey, and MarcusCorderi to re confirm numbers desired f you gents don't mind

I have a benefactor here in Texas that would like a set or two and between us we agreed to fill this pre order up to the 20 needed by Brian

Basically I am taking a dare that I can resell those above my personal needs

So before Brian Gardner decides he has had enough of this service and fully retires I hope he accepts this job

Now we need to start discussing internal design changes

I have one Fox 36 MK VI sample that has never seen fuel (except at the factory) or mounted--- it is a true new in box sample engine to send Brian

One of the folks asked me privately about using a new sample set of the Willy Willy liner and piston

I don't have enough "back then" knowledge on what timing or port mods Marvin Denny did or what the differences in the various hop up changes were

I think Tindal Double Bubble head shape was a fairly common desire

I would like heads that are cut this way BUT can accept Nelson plugs

So as I negotiate with Brian to produce these we all need to collectively discuss what if any design changes we want

Seems to me from several calls back and forth with Marvin Denny that the Fox MK IV and MK VI internals were directly interchangeable. Marvin sent me a bunch of his Junk barrel engines and most were MK IV with the MK VI gutz according to his notes

Fred,
I'm confirming that I want two sets of the MKIV-MKVI ABC piston sleeve sets. My engines are all MKIV's in actuality.

Randy Cuberly

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2016, 12:03:47 AM »

I think the Willy Wiley piston cylinder rod set up is a very good idea. I had one of willy's engines many years ago and it worked very well...very fast and reliable. It was set up very tight and took entirely too long to break in but gave perfect runs and never gave any trouble. I don't remember what the head configuration was but I would like to use the nelson setup if possible and if anyone knows exactly what configuration would work best with it. My other unknown (weak old memory) is how the Wiley crank compared to the MKIV/MKVI crank. might be a good idea to find someone who can tell us if the crank in the Foxes will live through the Wiley engine output. I'll talk to Jeff Hanauer in Phoenix He may know or at least know someone who does. I think Allan Deveauve used a mixture of parts something like this for a while. Maybe Jeff can contact him.

Randy Cuberly

PS: Fred thanks for pushing forward on this. You're a Gentleman and a Scholar! Even if you are a Combat Flier!

Al Ferraro · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2016, 06:54:50 AM »

( might be a good idea to find someone who can tell us if the crank in the Foxes will live through the Wiley engine output)
This might help answer your question

Brian Gardner · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2016, 03:13:05 PM »

Mine won't be overly tight, although we will probably make it just a tad tighter than the usual stunt sets. The fit we did on the 36X is working well.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #41 on:** April 14, 2016, 02:30:35 PM »

Long delayed update

I e-mailed Brian and retracted my commitment to fill the remainder of the 20 set minimum

After much consideration I decided I did not want to be in the business of liquidating about 9 sets (well above my needs)

MY Texas buddy was only in for two or three sets and waffling a lot between standard Fox copy Vs Wiley Willy configuration

My preference was Fox replacement and NOT trying to create near Nelson power and the associated lower reliability of the high Zoot Willy components

Unless at least 8 more Brian Gardner sets are pre ordered this project is destined to be just a pipe dream

Sorry folks but I cant justify tying up that much $$$$