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Author Topic: A listing of flapless designs  (Read 9295 times)

Offline Mike Griffin

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A listing of flapless designs
« on: May 08, 2017, 08:56:35 PM »
I am working on a project that will take quite a lot of time to finish I am sure.  What I want to do is make a comprehensive listing of FLAPLESS model airplane designs.  I have several reasons for wanting to do this and I have a pretty good knowledge of the most popular ones that are out there but cannot by any stretch of the imagination track them all down.  

If you have some spare time and can help me out by listing the ones you can think of and posting them here, I would greatly appreciate it.  When you list the ones you have in mind, try not to duplicate what has already been posted in the thread.  I realize if the thread gets very long (ie  "What did you do in your shop today") that might be hard so don't worry about it.  I will sort out the duplications in the end.

I am going to start it off by listing a few of the ones that immediately come to mind for me.  Oh. and by the way, I would like to list profile and full fuselage as well.  I would prefer .15 size through .60size but I don't know if there will be many 60 size models that will fit this category.

With that being said, lets kick this baby off:

Ringmaster
Flite Streak
Humongous
Fanfare
Primary Force
Sakitumi
Holeshot
Skyray 35

I will leave it there for right now and look forward to your lists.  

Thank you
Mike


Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 09:06:06 PM »
Lew Andrews Barnstormer
Hi Johnsons Stuka
Bud Jamisons, Jamison Special
Then there is the Humbug flown by Bob Baron, but I don't know who designed it.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline jfv

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 09:24:46 PM »
Here's some less common ones.

Gigantus by CV Russo
DeBolt (Demeco) Continental
Lil Dynamite by Scarinzi
Jim Vigani

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 09:54:44 PM »
Designs by Ted Fancher to demonstrate that flapless designs can fly extremely well:

The Doctor
The Medic

Dick Mathis:

Coyote

Offline Gerald Schamp

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 10:06:09 PM »
Magician
Viking
Clown
Veco Tomahawk
Veco Tom Tom
Veco Brave
Kenhi Bobcat

Offline Garf

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 10:38:06 PM »
Guillows Galaxy
Berkley Lancer
Berkley Interceptor 35
Berkley Intercepter 15
Goldberg Shoestring Stunter

Online Trostle

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 01:29:23 AM »
Maybe I do not understand what you are really looking for.  The list will be huge.  I will start with the first two of nine binders I have for published designs.  These binders are for conventional designs, Semi Scale Designs and OT designs, though some of the OT also are in my conventional binders, so there may be some duplication once I get to the OT binders.  I will list what I have for .15's and above.  No combat ships.  This list might include what is already mentioned above.  Once we get to the OT binders, the list will be huge like hundreds.  Do you really want that?  In fact, the list that Dave Day compiled some time ago for OTS had 465 designs, and I would think that a least 90% of those are without flaps.

A-Bomb      Bobby Jones    MAN  Jun 55
Aero Bat      A Aldrich        MAM Dec 56
Akro Bat Jr  B. Winter        MA  Apr 91
Akro Kat      Dave Coburn   Aero    ?
Aquabat      Earl Cayton     FM  Dec 54
Arrowhead   Henry Cole     AT  Oct 47  (flying wing)

BiLiner         Earl Cayton    FM  May 47 (bipe)
Profile Bipes (2)  Clause Maikis  Aero  Apr 80  (bipes)
Bipe             Hal deBolt      MB  Jul 83 (bipe)
Bipe             Hal deBolt      MA  Feb 90 (bipe)
Blue Pants    Henri Stupps  Aero  Jan 55
Bojo             Henry Nelson  AT Annual  51 (bipe)

Cat's Whiskers           ?       AT  Aug 53
Cavalier Mk 4  Peter Miller   FM  Nov 99  (bipe)
Cavalier Mk 4  Peter Miller   Aero  ?        (bipe)
Clap Trap             ?            Aero  Oct 80
Coon Dog      Jack May         FM  Oct 55  (bipe)
Coyote          Dick Mathis      FM  Oct 68

Dancing Girl   Peter Miller     MAN  Feb 75  (bipe)
Dominator             Wilson    FM  Mar 59
Doodelbug     Bill Netzeband  FM  Mar 02
Doomfly                ?             FM    ?
Double Scotch     Davidson    Aero   Sep 70
Dragoon        Hoh Fang-Chun  Model Aircraft  Feb 61
Dutchess       Peter Miller       Aero  Aug 74  (bipe)

Easy             Frank Ehling  At Annual  ?
Easy             Leroy Cucharm      FM  Apr 59
Econostunt           ?                   AM  Apr 59
El Diablo        Harold Reinhardt   MAN  Oct 80

Falcon 49       Fred Brigeman      MA  Sep 93
Fierce Arrow   Bill Netzeband      MAN Aug 57  (wing)
Fierce Arrow 400          "            MAN  May 68   "
Fierce Arrow 86            "            MA    Jul 87     "
Fire Fly          Earl Cayton           FM  Jan 59
Flipper           V. H. Ure              FM   Sep 56   (wing)
Flying Board   Earl Cayton           FM   May 57   (wing)
Flying Flounder  Walter Williamson   AMA  Jul/Aug 63
Four Star               ?                   Aero  May 2000
Foxy                George Aldrich     MAN   Nov 53  (with and without flaps)
Foxey             Bob Adair              FM  Dec 67
Frosty Pumpkin  Roscoe Mullican    FM  Jul 56

Galloping Comedian  H. Reinhardt  AT  May 52
Gay Devil     Larry Scarinzi          AT  May 52
Gigantis        C.V. Russo             FM   ?
Gremlin       Larry Scarinzi          MAN  Jan 63
Grey Ghost   Larry Scarinzi         FM  Feb 60

Happy Days  Jim Kostecky          MA   Apr 88
Hiperbipe      Larry Kruse            MAN   Mar 80  (bipe)
Hobgoblin      Harold Stevenson   FM  Mar 53   (bipe)
Hopit            Eric Higlett             Aero   Mar 51
Hot Foot     Harry Williamson       MAN   Apr 53   (bipe)
Humbug      Bob Baron                MAN  Feb 71
Humbug 91  Bob Baron                MA  Jul 93

Jamboree    H. M. Bourgeouis       AT    ?  54?
Jolly Roger   Larry Scarinzi           FM  Jul 58  (bipe)

Kentish Wind   Stan Robinson       Model Aircraft  Jul 60
Killer Saucer   Harold Evanson      MB    Feb 76
Krazy Kat      Larry Scarinzi          MAN  Dec 60

More later--

Keith




      


« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:51:08 PM by Trostle »

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 05:04:51 AM »
I'm certain that Keith will catch these in his next installment of flapless designs, but here are a few more:

Sky Devil - Scarinzi
Stunt Wing - Reinhardt
Ruby - ?


Bob Hunt

Offline EddyR

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 05:07:48 AM »
Seldom seen "Trixy" by Lew Andrews
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Online Dan Berry

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 06:33:14 AM »
Rayette.

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 07:05:51 AM »
Berkeley Falcon "35" - Duke Fox
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 07:34:07 AM »
Berserker by Noel Drindak    competition 60 size profile with SV-22 wing

Moitle   35 size Bipe
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 07:43:05 AM »
Keith I hope you copied and pasted that list in and did not take all the time to type those in individually.  If you did, thank you very much for taking that much time but I did not want to impose on anyone to take that much time to help me with a personal project like this.  I had no idea that anyone had composed a list of all the strictly flapless designs in a binder and it was already available.   If that is indeed the case, there is no sense in me pursuing this project any further.  My main goal in doing this was to compile a list of these designs and having it available for folks in the hobby.  I had planned to work on this over a long period of time but if I understand you right, this has already been done?  

Mike

Online Trostle

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 10:07:27 AM »
Keith I hope you copied and pasted that list in and did not take all the time to type those in individually.

(Clip)
  
I had planned to work on this over a long period of time but if I understand you right, this has already been done?  

Mike

Hi Mike,

To my knowledge, there is not a listing of "Flapless Stunt Designs for .15 and Larger Engines".

What I have collected over the years are copies of stunt construction design articles.  I have had access to magazine collections from the early 40's.  However, I have had only limited access to the many foreign magazines - European and Japanese though some of the "more interesting" designs from these sources appear in the Aeromodeller Annuals which I have the complete collection - 1948 through 1979.  These are in loose leaf binders with some semblance of organization sorted alphabetically by name of the design. There are nine of these 3" binders.  (Fills a 30" shelf in my library.)  There are 5 binders of what I call "Conventional" design, A through Z.  That is what I started going through last night for the listing above A through K.  Really, it did not take much time to do these.  I will add to the list over the next several days if this is what you are looking for.  Two of the binders are for semi scale designs where there will be a few without flaps.  Then, there are two binders of OTS designs where most will be flapless.  I have old Aeromodeller Plans listing that have illustrations of these designs.  Some of those I have the plans for, many I do not but will be able to tell if they are flapless from the illustrations.  I also have another binder just for 1/2A designs.  There is some duplication among those binders.  For instance, some of the OTS designs appear in the "Conventional" books as well.

I will not get into the Dave Day listings.  Dave Day no longer maintains his website, but Windy Urtnowski has taken on that responsibility.  We all owe Windy a big "Thanks" for doing this.  It can be found at    http://www.windyurtnowski.com/DaveDay/   .  This includes many foreign designs that I do not have as well as foreign kits.  Not only does this list contain the 465 OTS designs, most of which will be flapless, but there is also a listing of 432 Classic designs.  But these listings do not indicate if the designs are flapless.  (This reminds me that I need to copy the Dave Day listings before that website is lost to us.)

My library also includes more of these large binders --More than 25 for stunt related articles.  These are articles published over the years that might have some relation to our CLPA models.  Materials, construction techniques, engines, mufflers, props,  design studies and sketches, technology stuff, methods, components, finishing, control systems, hardware, fuel, plugs, major contests, nearly all of the stunt columns published over the years, and more.  One book is filled with what I consider significant articles by significant people in this event.  I also have material on other events, both CL and FF.  Also have Stunt News from the beginning (with a few missing issues from the 80's).  In all, besides the 9 stunt binders described above, I have nearly six four foot shelves filled with these binders in my store room.

I will continue with my listing if this is what you are looking for.  It will be good to have this sort of listing.  However, my list will be far from complete because it will not include many of the designs that are in the Dave Day listings and I have not had access to all of the foreign magazines though some of those designs are in my files.  Also, I will not check my list against what others may have already submitted to this thread, so there will be some duplication.  Also, my list will not include designs that appeared in kits but were not published as construction articles in the magazines.  My list will also include a few OTS and Classic designs that are not included in the Tom Morris publications for these designs  -- most of these are rather "obscure" but they are there nonetheless and some are quite interesting.

Keith


Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 11:08:06 AM »
Carl Goldberg  Shoestring
Carl Goldberg  Cosmic Wind
Dick Mathis  Excaliber
Ambroid  Whipsaw
Fancy Pants ?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline Don Hutchinson AMA5402

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2017, 11:25:31 AM »
How about Moitle, Yates Dragon, Yates Madman and the Wildman. Also Henry Cole's Super Looper 

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2017, 11:37:22 AM »
Phil Cartier's Gotcha Streak and Big Giles.

Allan Brickhaus's Fairey Barracuda from the June 2010 Flying Models

And these, from here and here, using Phil's cores:



AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline peabody

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2017, 06:34:34 PM »
Jim Damerell built a super flying (although a LOT was HIM) Lieutenant.....Jim's was a profile, but I believe that the original was full bodied.

Have fun!

Offline vgmc01

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2017, 08:14:23 PM »
Hi Mike;

another few;

Firecat & all of the Zilches

Bruce Duncan

Bruce Duncan

Online Steve Helmick

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2017, 08:29:50 PM »
All versions of Dick Mathis' "Excalibur" had flaps, so take that off the list. Pretty sure the "Berserker" has flaps also. And I'm about 90% certain that the Hi Johnson "Spitfire" did NOT have flaps.

I hope somebody that likes .15's will build a "Dominator"...cool little plane, full fuselage, inverted engine. I built a profile version when I was in Jr. High that flew wonderfully (I thought so at the time, anyway. :o ). Well enough that I never crashed it, and flew it a lot, learned to do h8's, v8's, and outside loops, over in Pullman, WA.  #^ Steve 
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2017, 09:00:22 PM »
this will be an extremely long list - I have 1000s of plans for flapless models - thousands!!!   

I'm not going to compile a list as that will take too dang long. 

In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline RogerGreene

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2017, 09:24:02 PM »
Hi Mike,

Here is one more.

Sterling's bi-plane "The Flying Fool."
Fly Stunt <><
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2017, 09:43:26 PM »
I'm certain that Keith will catch these in his next installment of flapless designs, but here are a few more:

Sky Devil - Scarinzi
Stunt Wing - Reinhardt
Ruby - ?


Bob Hunt


       No, scratch Ruby from the list. She's-a hanga ina my garage! Ana she has-a flaps! Arthur Alfiari, I think was designer and I flew it at VSC 9 I think and you were the only one familiar with the airplane, Bob!  Ruby is in sad shape right now, but she will fly again one day!
    Type at you later.
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 12:14:31 AM »
All American, Hal DeBolt
All American Jr, Hal DeBolt
Veco Brave

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Gregory Hammond

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 02:33:57 AM »
All Australian mark one
All Australian prototype
All Australian mark two

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Offline John Craig

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 04:40:17 AM »
I only did a quick look through the posts.  I did not see:

Clayton Smith's TEOSAWKI

Someone on the west coast was once producing the U-key.

Phil Cartier's Core House RST  (Rugged Stunt Trainer)

MA had a Tomahawk II
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 11:50:41 AM by John Craig »

Online Trostle

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2017, 12:20:02 PM »
I'm certain that Keith will catch these in his next installment of flapless designs, but here are a few more:

Sky Devil - Scarinzi
Stunt Wing - Reinhardt
Ruby - ?

Bob Hunt

There was a "Ruby" in Flying Models, Nov 59, that was done by Scarinzi or Alfieri (?).  This one has flaps, though very narrow.

Keith

Online Trostle

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2017, 01:46:14 PM »
--continuing from above --

Lieutenant        Leroy Ducharme    MAN  Jan 58
Lil Blue Angel    Walter Musciano    AM    Oct 59
Lil Dynamite      Larry Scarinzi        MAN  Jun 57

Mag Jet             Vince Macchia       FM      Oct 67
Mandarin           James Ruggiero     MA      Jun 85
Manx Cat IV       Bob Buragas         FM      Feb 57  (tailess bipe!)
                                 also in Aero Annual  57
Matador             M. Herber     Aero Annual  57/58
Midi Slow           Dave Clarkson       MA       Mar 83
Monster             Charles Mackey      FM        ?

Mongoose           Dick Mathis           FM        ?
Mutalator           Don McGovern       FM       Feb 61  (bipe)
Nova Clone         Bob Dorn              MA       Sep 91
Novette              Norm Dion            FM        Jul 68
Nutnik                 Frank Ehling        MA         Sep 59  (saucer)
Ospey                Cowan Eastham     AM       Nov 58
Pedro                 L. Whalley            Aero      Aug 58
Pluto                  Dave Horvath       MB        Nov 77
Putt Putt II         Gary Harbourt      FM         Oct 05  (bipe)
Puzzle               Peter Nyffler         Aero     Sep 92
Rayette             Bob Gialdini         AM        Feb 67
Red Hot Angel    Waler Musciano   MAN       Jan 82

Sassy Saucer      George Harris       AT    May 53   (saucer)
Short Snorter      George Hinz         AM       Oct 58  (wing)
Sky Devil           Larry Scarinzi        FM       Dec 56
Sky Streak         Les Nicholson        Aero     Oct 06
Slo Mo               Phil Cartier            MAN     Jan 77
Smartie             Bill Winter             MAN     Jun 53 (bipe)
Snapper             Tom Dixon            MA           ?
Testor's Sophomore  Bill Schmidt     FM        Sep 03
Spider                Lou Woolard          FM           ?
Square Cat         John Artes             MB           ?
Starjet               Howard Martin        AAM      Apr 68
Stinger               Paul DelGatto        FM         Jun/Jul 61
Stunt Goat          Roy Clough Jr         FM        Aug 54
Stunster             J. Richards              FM         Feb 54
Stunt Trainer      Dennis Schauer      MAN        Feb 56
Stunt Wing         Harold Reinhardt     MAN       Mar 55  (wing)
Sun Devil           Clair Sieverling        FM   Apr/May 61
Super Pup          Michael Parentan     MB         Oct 75
Supermarine 6 7/8   A. Stevens         MAN        Mar 81
Swingliner          Robert Dulaka          Aero     Jun/Jul 82   (wing)

Tandem Twister    Henry Cole            FM   Jun 49
Thirteen              John Ritner             MAN     Dec 57
38 Special           Tom Dixon              MA       May 93  (bipe)
Tiger Rag             Peter Miller             MA       Mar 82  (bipe)
Tom Tom              Veco kit                
Twelve                 Jack Ritner             MAN     Nov 54
Tomahawk          Veco kit                  MA        Sep 88

Ukie Stick            Ward Van Duzer       FM       Feb 89
Unlikely                                               Aero   Oct 92   (wing)

Vertigo                Ian Barret               AAM      Sep 72 (flying wing bipe)
                                   also in            Aero     Jul 70
Veto                   Allyn Aldrich             MAN     Jul 55
VFM Kwidsin        James Burg              Aero        "     (bipe)

Which-A-Way      Walter Williamson     FM        Jun/Jul 61
Winglet               Clause Maikis           Aero          ?
X-Pendable          James Saftig            AT         Oct 53
Yardbird               Earl Van Gorder       FM             ?
Zephyr                Raymond Zarichak      FM        Jul 79  (bipe)
Zilch                    Berkeley kit
                      +   Doc B Mathews         MA        Feb 79
                       +  Ultra Duper Zilch
                       by  Michael Groman       FM        Aug 94
Zippy                  Aubrey Kochman         AT        Jan 50

More to come.

Keith


« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 04:20:43 PM by Trostle »

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2017, 02:32:11 PM »
Now for semi scale stunt ships without flaps --

A-26                    Clair Sieverling       MAN  Jul 62  (twin)
Beechcraft D-17    Clarence Haught     MA    Jul 80  (bipe)
Boeing F4B-3        Joe DeMarco           FM    Dec 74 (bipe)
Bonzo                   S. Calhoun Smith    AT     Jul 53
Cherokee              Dick Mathis             FM        ?
Citabria                 Dick Mathis            FM     Apr 73

Druine Turbulent   Larry Kruse             FM    Jul 78
Ercoupe                Dick Mathis             FM    Jun 74
F-4F Wildcat          Nick Ziroli               MA  Jun 87
F-4F Wildcat           Nick Ziroli              FM      ?
F-7F Tigercat          Bob Adair              FM       ?
F-82 Twin Mustang  Terry Aldrich          AAM   Jun 68
Fairy Barracuda       Allen Brickhaus      Jun 10
Fleet Trainer            Charles Hollinger    AT      ?   (bipe)
Fournier  RF-4         Ken Burton             Aero   Dec 79
Heinkel  219           Joe DeMarco           FM     May 74
Henschel Hs 123     Joe DeMarco           MAN    Mar 82 (bipe)
Laird Super Solution  Allen Brickhaus     FM      Jul 04   (bipe)

Me 163                   Hal Reduer             MAN   Oct 81  (wing)

P-38                       Nick Ziroli              FM          ?
P-40                       Paul DelGatto         MAN    Nov 62
P-63                       Vince Micchia           FM     May 69
PZL P-37B               Bogdan Wierzba     Polish mag  Mar 82

Rivits                      Vince Micchia         FM  Nov 69

Shoestring              S. Calhoun Smith      AT    Sep 52
Sopwith Tripe          Hal Redner             Man   Jun 80  (tripe)
Spirit of St Louis      Walter Musciano     Mechanix Illustrated  May 50  (OTS capable and legal!)
Stearman                Don Hutchinson      FM    Oct 2000 (inspired by Palmer/Yates Stearman from Air Trails Apr 50)
Stits Jr.                   Aubrey Kochman    AT   Jun 51
Stuka Prifile             Dick Mathis            MAN   Jun 73
Stuka                      Hi Johson              MAN Annual  60
Swee Pea                S. Calhoun Smith     Mechanix Illustrated  Jun 48

Texas Wildcat          Bill Darkow             MA   Oct 89  (bipe)
Tipsy Jr.                  Woody Blanchard     MAN   Nov 52
Tipsy Nipper            George Harris          AM     Dec 60
Travel Air                Jim Hunt                 MAN   Jan 52  (bipe)

Vickers Wellesley     Walter Musciano       AM     May 57

Whirlwind                Paul Plecan              AT  Jan 43

Zero-ette                Dale Kirn                 AM    May 58
Combat Zero            Nick Ziroli                FM       ?
Zlin 50-L                  Phil Cartier              FM     Sep 83

Note.  Paul Plecan drew a number of scale plans for CL of warplanes (fighters) from the 40's.  (No working flaps)  These are copyrighted as early as 1943.  Most have symmetrical or near symmetrical airfoils, some of them comparatively thick.  If carefully built, some of these would be capable of the OTS pattern.

Keith




Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
here are a few more
 great lakes 2t-1a
334g
ALCL -T
Aero Bat
Acro 1
Acrobata
Airbonit
Akro Cat
All American
All American Jnr
All American Infant
All American Snr
Alphacon
Ambassador
Ambush
Artmil Spitfire
AT-6 Texan
Baby Bipe
Baby Bird
Bazooka
Bee 25
Beech T34 mentor
Berkley Trojan
Bev
Big Fry
Billy Bunter
Blue Pants
Bonnie Lass
Bouncer
Bouncing Bertie
Bourdon
Boxcar chief
Breezie Bipe
Bumblebug
Burp
Buster
Cadet
Cavalier Mk4
Centelha
Champeen
Cheap Thrills
Chekela Roma
Checkmate
Cheshire kitten
Chihuahua
Ciclone
Cocozza
Combat Zero
Corsair
Cosmic Wind
Countdown
Couquette
Curtiss Hawk
Curtiss shrike

and the list goes on and on and on and on and............................

some are not .15 or over - whoops got carried away typing





















In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Gerald Schamp

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2017, 02:57:46 PM »
I know this is not a .15 or larger sized plane, but who could not have had a Firebaby.

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 04:10:25 PM »
Now, we get into the matter of OTS designs without flaps.  For the most part, everything I listed above are designs plus a few kits that appeared after 1952, though there are some above that are OTS legal.  Almost all of the designs that were published prior to 1952 did not have flaps.  Rather than list the nearly 465 OTS designs on the Dave Day listing that do not have flaps, it would be easier just to reference that list and remove the few that we know had flaps.  Same would be for the Tom Morris book that collected almost all of the published OTS designs.  The Morris book and the Dave Day listing essentially mirror each other except the Dave Day listing has many kits and designs which include foreign sources that the Morris book does not.  (And Morris missed a few.)  We could also go through the old Aeromodeller plans listing but all of the OTS designs from that source will be fairly well captured in the Dave Day listing.

So, just take the Dave Day listing at  http://www.windyurtnowski.com/DaveDay/vintage.htm  and do not include such designs as the Nobler, Palmer's Go Devil, Mars, Venus, and Smoothie, Leon Shulman's Lethal Lucy, Don Still's Stuka, and Lloyd Curtis' 52 Stunt Champ.  Then you will have another listing of over 450 flapless stunt designs.

It will be interesting to know what the purpose of this listing will be.

Keith

« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:06:41 PM by Trostle »

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 07:11:02 PM »
yes the purpose would be nice :)

I have a lot more not on your list Keith  - if I get the chance I will list them

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 08:01:58 PM »
You guys have forgot the John Pond plans that is now under control of the AMA.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2017, 08:18:59 PM »
 Top Flite "Tutor" and "Super Combat Streak"
 Carl Goldberg "P-40 Flying Tiger"
 Keith Sandberg "Challenger .15"
 Brodak "38 Special", "F7F Tigercat" (and many other designs if you look through their catalog)
 Jetco "Shark .15"
 Sterling Yak, Mustang, Hellcat, P-38 Lightning
 Sig "Akromaster", "Shoestring" and "Buster"
 J Roberts F4U Corsair, AD Skyraider, F8F Bearcat
 Midwest's .15 size Warbird series.
 Consolidated "Wow" and practically all other Combat designs.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 08:38:08 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

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Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2017, 09:41:49 PM »
Now, we get into the matter of OTS designs without flaps.  For the most part, everything I listed above are designs plus a few kits that appeared after 1952, though there are some above that are OTS legal.  Almost all of the designs that were published prior to 1952 did not have flaps.  Rather than list the nearly 465 OTS designs on the Dave Day listing that do not have flaps, it would be easier just to reference that list and remove the few that we know had flaps.  Same would be for the Tom Morris book that collected almost all of the published OTS designs.  The Morris book and the Dave Day listing essentially mirror each other except the Dave Day listing has many kits and designs which include foreign sources that the Morris book does not.  (And Morris missed a few.)  We could also go through the old Aeromodeller plans listing but all of the OTS designs from that source will be fairly well captured in the Dave Day listing.

So, just take the Dave Day listing at  http://www.windyurtnowski.com/DaveDay/vintage.htm  and do not include such designs as the Nobler, Palmer's Go Devil, Mars, Venus, and Smoothie, Leon Shulman's Lethal Lucy, and Lloyd Curtis' 52 Stunt Champ.  Then you will have another listing of over 450 flapless stunt designs.


Keith I sent you a PM

Mike
It will be interesting to know what the purpose of this listing will be.

Keith



Offline Avaiojet

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2017, 07:19:27 AM »
Scale kits?

CB
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Offline Bill Morell

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2017, 11:28:43 AM »
Yankee Clipper
Bill Morell
It wasn't that you could and others couldn't, its that you did and others didn't.
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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2017, 12:05:00 PM »
Yankee Clipper

OK, if you want to get into the OTS stuff (pre 52) as is the Yankee Clipper and many of the others being posted here, we can go onesies and twosies until we get all of the 400 plus that are listed in the Day listings and the Tom Morris collection already referenced. The Day listings take 19 type written pages.

Keith

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2017, 12:11:22 PM »
Keith did you get my PM to you?

Mike

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2017, 12:31:43 PM »
OK, if you want to get into the OTS stuff (pre 52) as is the Yankee Clipper and many of the others being posted here, we can go onesies and twosies until we get all of the 400 plus that are listed in the Day listings and the Tom Morris collection already referenced. The Day listings take 19 type written pages.

Keith

Not to mention an endless number of sport planes published after '52 but still using, roughly, the pre '53 design rules.  Like the Aquabat from '53 or '54 (which is on my bucket list because it's weird and because I have a copy of that magazine that came from my uncle's hoard in my grandmother's house):

AMA 64232

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Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2017, 12:59:29 PM »

 I first want you all  to know how much I appreciate the time you have taken to list all of these designs.  My original intention was to compile a list of models that do not utilize flaps for the large majority of people who just fly for fun or sport fly and have no desire to compete competitively in stunt contest.  Most all PA stunt planes have flaps and I think a lot of people who would like to perhaps build a model become overwhelmed and intimidated by the trimming issues that flapped models can present, even something like a Banshee or Twister.  So what I had in mind was to compose and publish a list of easy to build flapless models with the idea of starting with a profile and then maybe moving to a full fuselage flapless model.  From there, if they so desired, they could move on to higher performance models with flaps if they wished to get serious about the hobby.  However I am quickly realizing if this is overwhelming to me, then it would be even worse for a novice in the hobby.

What I did not realize, and this is just ignorance on my part, that there were so many of them that fell into the category (size) that I specified in the post.  I did not want to list any 1/2 A models because I think they are not a good choice for a beginner to try and fly because of how quirky they are.

I was hoping to take the information that you and others might post and maybe even put a picture with each model but from what I am learning, I would not live long enough to get it done.  

I may have to lower my ambitions and sort of pick and choose the ones that might be appealing to the greater number of people.

 I honestly did not think about different classifications such a scale, speed, combat etc etc.  I was thinking of putting something out that would help the average everyday weekend flyer that just wanted to have fun and not spend a huge amount of time or money building a model.  

I am beginning to think that this might not be as good of an idea as I thought and is getting far more complicated than I thought.  

I sincerely appreciate the time you all took to list these models and I will have to rethink how I am going to compile this information.  It is a bit overwhelming taking into consideration the sheer number of designs that fall into this category.

Kindest regards and thanks,

Mike


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« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 01:48:59 PM by Mike Griffin »

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2017, 05:23:01 PM »
With the seemingly never ended supply of models and input from all of you, which is greatly appreciated, I think we have enough to do a list.  I have gotten some great ideas for some folks who have a lot of wisdom in the hobby and I think they can be integrated into something that will be beneficial.  It will still take me a lot of time to refine it all down.  Thanks to all of you for the outpouring of information.  Now all I have to do is take it and do something with it.

Mike

Offline Gordon Van Tighem

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2017, 01:12:45 AM »
I'm certain that Keith will catch these in his next installment of flapless designs, but here are a few more:

Sky Devil - Scarinzi
Stunt Wing - Reinhardt
Ruby - ?


Bob Hunt

Ruby has flaps.....
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2017, 07:45:03 PM »
Top Flite "Tutor" and "Super Combat Streak"
 Sterling Yak, Mustang, Hellcat, P-38 Lightning
  

No the Top Flite Tutor has FLAPS... Also the Sterling Yak, and the Mustang were most often built in the "Good Old Days" with flaps but could be built without!  The kits actually specified flaps on the plans but noted that they were optional.  In the 50's "WE" all considered them flapped airplanes.  The only ones I've personally ever seen built without flaps were at VSC's for "Old Time Stunt".  So they're really a "MAYBE".  LL~ LL~

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Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2017, 06:31:23 AM »
 S?P S?P S?P
1/2 A,  Lil Jumping Bean.  Does everything on a mild reed .049, maybe not on the same tank of fuel though.
 S?P S?P S?P

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Offline jim gilmore

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2017, 08:56:02 PM »
Just a question wasn't the shoestring stunter, and buster a carl goldberg kit.
Also not sure where you put kits that one could use flaps on. Such as a flite streak,or jr flite streak ?
I never built the yak by ? sterling so I do not remember if it fell into flaps or could have flaps. But they sterling did have  f-51 mustang that you could choose use flaps on same as the sig akromster.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2017, 06:49:24 AM »
Just a question wasn't the shoestring stunter, and buster a carl goldberg kit.
Also not sure where you put kits that one could use flaps on. Such as a flite streak,or jr flite streak ?
I never built the yak by ? sterling so I do not remember if it fell into flaps or could have flaps. But they sterling did have  f-51 mustang that you could choose use flaps on same as the sig akromster.


Jim,

The Shoestring was a Carl Goldberg kit. I actually had one with a Fox 25. Gave it away to a Club member's son.

I was flying R/C at the time. No, no regrets, the lad made good use of it.

The Shoestring had no flaps. But, if the builder elected to do so, he could add them. I added flaps on my Flite Streak.

The Shoestring kits bring big bucks on ebay.

CB

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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2017, 08:33:09 AM »
Just a question wasn't the shoestring stunter, and buster a carl goldberg kit.
Also not sure where you put kits that one could use flaps on. Such as a flite streak,or jr flite streak ?
I never built the yak by ? sterling so I do not remember if it fell into flaps or could have flaps. But they sterling did have  f-51 mustang that you could choose use flaps on same as the sig akromster.



     Carl Goldberg put out the Shoestring, Buster and Cosmic Wind at the same time. The release of those three kits is credited with saving his business. That is an indication of how control line dominated the market at that time. You can read about it in Dave Thornburg's book, "Do You Speak Model Airplane?" Sterling put out the Ringmaster, Yak, and P-51 at nearly the same time, but all early enough to be OTS legal. I think the kit numbers are sequential also beginning with the Ringmaster at S-1. The adds in the old magazines are a good way to to track this sort of stuff.
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Online Trostle

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Re: A listing of flapless designs
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2017, 09:48:30 AM »

     Carl Goldberg put out the Shoestring, Buster and Cosmic Wind at the same time. The release of those three kits is credited with saving his business. That is an indication of how control line dominated the market at that time. You can read about it in Dave Thornburg's book, "Do You Speak Model Airplane?" Sterling put out the Ringmaster, Yak, and P-51 at nearly the same time, but all early enough to be OTS legal. I think the kit numbers are sequential also beginning with the Ringmaster at S-1. The adds in the old magazines are a good way to to track this sort of stuff.
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

Just to avoid any confusion on how Dan explained the Goldberg kits above and then the Sterling kits.  The Goldberg Shoestring, Buster and Cosmic Wind came out in the early 60's or certainly not before the late 50's and are not OTS legal where the Sterling series above are OTS legal.

Keith


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