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Author Topic: 50's-60's combat history  (Read 42536 times)

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #150 on: February 10, 2016, 01:18:14 AM »
Riley, do you remember the fuss over monoline at that ('63) Nats?  Exciting times ...

Don't quit writing now, Thanks!


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline bob whitney

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #151 on: February 10, 2016, 11:22:07 AM »


  i flew against the mono line guy in some after hours combat at the 66 nats and KILLED him
rad racer

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #152 on: February 10, 2016, 11:30:51 AM »
Thanks for coming back to this sir!
We're very excited on this end for this continuing recollection

Offline riley wooten

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #153 on: February 22, 2016, 06:23:36 PM »
Started this post last night; worked on it a long time, then lost the whole thing when I decided to delete one word and deleted everything.  Disgusted, I threw down the lap top and went to bed..  I am going to try again but this is the 3rd time starting over to get this far............
I will start with 1963 and the Southern California Nats... I had quite a bit of time to get ready for the Nats so I had the best batch of planes and engines I had ever taken to a contest... I thought I was loaded for bear but it was not to be. I could not knock down a cub.  It all started when upon arrival Hi Johnson approached me touting his new props and wanted me to run them.  I told him I was afraid my engines would throw a blade and I was afraid to run them.  He told me they (his Calif. group) had been running them on engines just as good as mine with no problems.  He insisted, I gave in and said I would try one....
He even said " if it throws a blade I will repair the plane for you or replace it". I picked a prop with good straight grain to try, but was still sure it would not hold up... DUMB, I tried it anyway.. I started and tuned the engine with Hi holding the plane. He launches and the plane leaps forward, gaining speed and rpm quickly... By the time it completes the first lap the Sneeker is hauling and just as it got back right over Hi the prop exploded, the engine screamed, the mount shook loose and everything stopped... The plane was ruined and with a little disgust at myself, I looked at Hi with his head down, shaking it side to side and said quite strongly "you just thought your guys had hot engines".  Anyway that event set the tone for me for the rest of the Nats.  Engines that ran great at home suddenly starting seizing and down time cost me any chance of winning... Enough about my troubles.. Next I will talk about the winners and etc........
RW

Online Frank Imbriaco

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #154 on: February 23, 2016, 09:25:37 AM »
Riley:
Great job. Thank you. When you  reach 1968, check back to the Combat section here and locate the two photos I took of you at the 68' Olathe, Kansas NATS.
A few of us were telling Scarinzi  the other day about what you are doing here and he is quite intrigued. Too bad he doesn't use a computer.

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #155 on: February 23, 2016, 09:57:11 AM »
Compose your posts using your email client and send it to yourself. Once you get it finished copy and paste it to the forum. Eliminates an internet glitch causing you to loose allot of work.

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #156 on: February 23, 2016, 01:59:41 PM »
SO glad to see you continuing this effort, Riley!

I'm still very much enjoying a stroll through combat history as seen through your eyes and experiences.

Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Offline riley wooten

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #157 on: March 01, 2016, 07:20:20 PM »
The 63 Nats in Calif at this time has it's usual low turnout and sub par competition in combat as compared with the Midwest and east.  In this area the east coast had big numbers but Midwest had by far the best competition.. This Nats had the first monoline combat contestant that I am aware of. There was a big controversy over this as I recall but the flier did not do well as I remember. There were a lot of left coast type combat designs as would be expected.  By this I mean smaller wing area, higher aspect ratio planes.  The competition between the top flyers was really good and came down to a close finish.  Even though I did not win I was very involved as a pit man for the winners.  All three of the top placers were close personal friends..  Carl Berryman and Howard Henry were from my usual flying buddies and Lubbock bunch while I had got to know Bill James quite well as Duke Fox's right hand man.... As such I pitted for all of them with Carl being number one if there was a conflict.  Carl Berryman won first flying his Johnson powered Big Iron and as I recall he and Howard had to fly two matches to determine the winner.. Howard Henry won second flying his Johnson powered kit built Demon proving that in the right hands and trim this plane was more competitive than most thought... Bill James won third flying his Fox powered Big Iron..  It was a good contest with the best guys coming out on top...
As a side note I remember a very young (16 or so) Ted Fancier hanging around and taking it all in: asking questions and very interested in what was going on.
Anybody remember what happened to him???
RW

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #158 on: March 01, 2016, 08:36:12 PM »
. . . As a side note I remember a very young (16 or so) Ted Fancher hanging around and taking it all in: asking questions and very interested in what was going on.
Anybody remember what happened to him???
RW

Word is, he became interested in Precision Aerobatics...and did rather well at it.   LL~


FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #159 on: March 06, 2016, 07:25:42 PM »

  i flew against the mono line guy in some after hours combat at the 66 nats and KILLED him

Kinda reminds me of the '68 Nats, Bob.  A teammate and local flyer - good guy (great in the pits!) who I don't think ever won a combat contest in his life, and I flew with him for more than 20 years - was matched against Bob Lipscomb in the first round.  As I recall, Lipscomb was a 2-time Nats combat winner ...

We had a ton of trouble that year, primarily based on trusting a brand new batch of glow plugs from Duke Fox.  They ran just fine here in Minnesota, but the heat and humidity of that Kansas Nats and that week must have been too much.

Probably not more than 15-20 seconds into the match, my teammate's Fox 36X quit (yup, a blown plug) - whereupon Lipscomb, running a SuperTigre, started spouting the virtues of his superior engine.  My teammate replied with something like "well, that may be - but, if you look closely, your streamer and kill card are gone".

One thing I learned from wrestling early in life is that most of us put our pants on one leg at a time.  Irrespective of our name.

Dave Kruse was a pretty darned good combat flyer, especially given what I consider the tremendous handicaps he had with Monoline.  To underestimate him would be a big mistake - as guys like Bill Carpenter ('60 Nats winner, Sterling Super Swoop) found out at the '63 Nats.

Dennis
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 08:52:03 PM by AirClassix »
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #160 on: March 06, 2016, 07:53:07 PM »
The 63 Nats in Calif at this time has it's usual low turnout and sub par competition in combat as compared with the Midwest and east.  In this area the east coast had big numbers but Midwest had by far the best competition.. This Nats had the first monoline combat contestant that I am aware of. There was a big controversy over this as I recall but the flier did not do well as I remember. There were a lot of left coast type combat designs as would be expected.  By this I mean smaller wing area, higher aspect ratio planes.  The competition between the top flyers was really good and came down to a close finish.  Even though I did not win I was very involved as a pit man for the winners.  All three of the top placers were close personal friends..  Carl Berryman and Howard Henry were from my usual flying buddies and Lubbock bunch while I had got to know Bill James quite well as Duke Fox's right hand man.... As such I pitted for all of them with Carl being number one if there was a conflict.  Carl Berryman won first flying his Johnson powered Big Iron and as I recall he and Howard had to fly two matches to determine the winner.. Howard Henry won second flying his Johnson powered kit built Demon proving that in the right hands and trim this plane was more competitive than most thought... Bill James won third flying his Fox powered Big Iron..  It was a good contest with the best guys coming out on top...
As a side note I remember a very young (16 or so) Ted Fancier hanging around and taking it all in: asking questions and very interested in what was going on.
Anybody remember what happened to him???
RW

Actually, Riley, David "Monoline Pete" Kruse did quite well.  In spite of all the crybabies protesting Monoline at the pilot's meeting the night before competition started.  Grown men acting like spoiled children, and apparently thinking not with their heads, but with some other part of their anatomy.

He did well in spite of the tremendous disadvantages he flew with.  (Any idiot stupid enough to cross their .015 stranded lines with a single, solid line of perhaps .028 diameter needs some remedial schooling.)

Dave has been a good friend for more than 50 years.  He's spent many hours helping kids - with U-Control and other forms of flight - and, while we laughed at his experimentation with electrics 50 years ago, he patiently explained that battery technology would catch up.  Who's laughing now?  (I can tell you it isn't Dave - it's just not in his character!)

That character also helps explain why Dave was so eager to VOLUNTARILY grant rematches to opponents - it took 3 flights against Bill Carpenter ('60 Nats winner, Sterling Super Swoop) for Dave to advance in that round.

Dave could easily have flown a preliminary rematch before the Finals on Friday morning, but he instead withdrew.  I was really heartbroken, as I had advanced to the final 8 myself, but understood his reasons: (1) he would have had to rebuild an airplane or two, and the 3 of us traveling together had sight-seeing plans, and (2) UNSPOKEN by Dave - he had endured enough crap and verbal abuse for one person.

The sportsmanship I saw and experienced in the finals was great, but I left with complete disdain for the whiners.

More later ...

Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline bob whitney

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #161 on: March 07, 2016, 11:18:38 AM »


  I dont remember a problem with the after hrs flying session in 66 and i enjoyed talking to Dave about the monoline stuff as i was flying it in Speed but hadn't tried stunting at that time
rad racer

Offline riley wooten

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #162 on: March 09, 2016, 07:42:41 PM »
Dennis, I will have to admit I do not remember much about the monoline argument.. Probably because I had other things on my agenda and did not think there was much to argue about...
RW

Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #163 on: March 09, 2016, 08:35:07 PM »
"Grown men acting like spoiled children"?

Some things don't change much, do they?  Competition brings out the worst and best in all of us.
Mike

Offline riley wooten

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #164 on: March 14, 2016, 11:04:57 PM »
I am going to continue 1963 with the last contest I flew that year only because my Nats problems continued... That contest, the Southwest Championships in Dallas on Labor Day are completely different from California with very high heat and high humidity.. I was still having engine problems...  Tried everything, plugs, fuel and ect. and nothing cured it.  Ran great in Lubbock but not in LA or Dallas.. With setting where it should be flamed out in outsides and only cure was lean needle.  It came down to the squish band heads I was running but had nothing else so had to go with them.  That has always been my thinking but never had any trouble before or since so who knows...  Now I have to tell you the story of that meet and a once in a lifetime happening.  I was flying Sammy Kilpatrick, a longtime combat pilot and friend from near Dallas.. I was on the ground several times because of the flameouts and way behind in the score.  With only a few seconds left Don Jaden was my pit man and Sammy was doing loops right behind where we were pitting (legal and quite common in the day).. I started with about 15 seconds left and ran to handle with less than 10 remaining.. Don launched; I scared the hell out of him as I went right back over his head through the top of Sammy's loop and killed him a half second before the horn blew..  Sammy was quite the sportsman for not crashing his plane as soon as my motor started as he would have won easily..  All he said was I didn't think there was any way you could do that in the time left and you could never do it again and he is right, it was meant to be.
To regress a little about combat plane designs.  A Half Fast won the 1955 Nats and the Quicker dominated the 56 Nats.  From 56 and until the late 60's the design started by the Quicker remained fairly  constant (9" cord, 36-38" span)
The side mount engine came along  plus the stabilator and with different airfoils but the basic planes were about the same, a little smaller or bigger but about the same.  Designs started getting a little larger in the 70's but remained similar in design and then foam came into designs in a large way. We will continue this later.......
RW

Offline Tom_Fluker

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #165 on: March 15, 2016, 06:53:51 AM »
"Sammy was quite the sportsman "

That never changed.  In the late '70's, Sammy would let Doug Harris and I pit for him.  We were just kids and definitely did not give him any advantage, but he let us do it anyway.  Always friendly and smiling.  He lived in the Texarkana area in those days.  A quick google search shows that he still is in that area.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #166 on: August 01, 2016, 02:12:30 PM »
Searching for Green head Torp info I ran across this thread

I can not attend James Mears memorial (Lubbock Texas) in Sept due to family issues but am trying to get set for the 8~9 October Tulsa Glue Dobbers event where Bob Mears, Riley, and others I want to meet be be there

Seems Riley stalled out on this thread and I have been trying to not pester and seem too selfish desiring more of the story and history

My combat building and experience in from the early 70s with Flight Streaks and then Mathis Mongeese with 5224 Enya .35s

I did not build my first VooDoo until much later...and after meeting Riley a year or so back at a Lubbock event I have slowly accumulating a few of his designs to eventuality build

BY The way ---both my Torps are C versions, and I learned a great deal today about a engine that will BITE you if you prop it with heat to the plug....grrrr...grin
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #167 on: August 01, 2016, 03:31:18 PM »
I can not attend James Mears memorial (Lubbock Texas) in Sept due to family issues but am trying to get set for the 8~9 October Tulsa Glue Dobbers event where Bob Mears, Riley, and others I want to meet be be there

Details on the James Mears event? I live 95 miles away, might attend if no conflicts.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #168 on: August 02, 2016, 07:19:37 AM »
George Bob Mears has a thread in the evens area

http://stunthanger.com/smf/event's/james-mears-memorial-combat-bash-43531/

Sept 3 and 4  2 days of combat with a visit to the museum and dinner Saturday night

Later Oct 8~9 Tulsa Glue Dobbers are hosting a vintage combat festival?
Andre Ming has the info in the combat area

http://stunthanger.com/smf/combat/tulsa-gluedobbers-1st-annual-43936/
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline GallopingGhostler

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #169 on: August 02, 2016, 07:39:15 AM »
George Bob Mears has a thread in the evens area http://stunthanger.com/smf/event's/james-mears-memorial-combat-bash-43531/ Sept 3 and 4  2 days of combat with a visit to the museum and dinner Saturday night Later Oct 8~9 Tulsa Glue Dobbers are hosting a vintage combat festival? Andre Ming has the info in the combat area http://stunthanger.com/smf/combat/tulsa-gluedobbers-1st-annual-43936/

Thanks, Fred. I posted a question the Lubbock event. Tulsa, thanks for the info but a little further than I'd like to travel.

Offline riley wooten

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #170 on: August 02, 2016, 09:20:38 AM »
After losing my wife, lover, and best friend suddenly after 65 years together 9 months ago it became hard to carry on with this story.. The story wound up being mostly about my exploits than total history of combat.  I wanted more stories of combat development from more parts of the country and more stories of others history.. That being said I am going to review the past stories and catch back up and finish with this story.  Bear with me and all input will be surely appreciated..  Combat flying is one of the most fun things I ever experienced and I was involved in a lot of different sports as well as flying other events...
RW

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #171 on: August 02, 2016, 09:44:35 AM »
Riley,sir
I can't imagine what you're going through. I appreciate these stories very much. I'm trying to get into combat, but everything is out of state for me. So guys like you keep me motivated to practice and make the drive elsewhere just to practice.

Thank you

Offline EddyR

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #172 on: August 02, 2016, 01:38:25 PM »
Riley
  You  asked for input about early combat and here is what went on in my area in the early 1950’s.
I lived in Binghamton NY right on the Penn border.
I was born in 1940  and built stick models and then 1/2A models by the late 40’s. Around 1948 I saw some guys flying largeCL models and then in  1950 I and others were flying combat 1/2A models. By 1952 we were using what  ever  we had,Ringmasters,wings,just about anything that would fly. Around 1954 I was going to a few contest and flying stunt and speed. I saw the guys fly combat and wanted to try it. We were using a plane we called the WingMaster.I was a Ringmaster with the motor mounted right at the leading edge and the tank in the wing. The stab was 1” behind the wing. They flew very well with green head .32’s on them. I built some I/Beam profile models and these were even better than the WingMasters. I could build three in a weekend. Then came Omegas,Quickers,Halffast ,Reactors. They all had one problem the upright motor. We turned the motors over on there side on all these models and we had a lot of success as we were not breaking off the engine mounts.
 I was not a national level flyer but did fly against quite a few who were. In the mid 1950’s I could crash and be back in the air but those guys flying wings with upright motors many time could not. I remember going to contest in Scranton PA with two friends and there were at least 20 T/Squares  there. We had 6 combat models between us all with side mounted engines. Our models were basic  Quickers with side mounted engines. I won stunt and second in combat at that meet. I think the guy who beat me was named Arrowsmith. We also flew in all the NYC contests. I did go to the 1957 NATs but only flew  FF.
 I built I/Beam stunters so I also built I/beam combat models. Thicker airfoil but very light. I used K&B Green heads and the OS Max combat engines. Some I my area were using Fox Combat  Specials.
During the mid 1950’s  at contest all over NY and Penn guys were using Fox .35, McCoy .35.OS Max and K&B.35’s . I never say many Johnson or ST engines.
 I worked in two Hobby shops Tri-City and Kerns Hobbies in Binghamton  and got engines at cost.K&B .35’s cost  $8-9 fuel was $4 gallon.
I would guess most parts of the country went through about the same evolution of models. The biggest change in Combat models for me was turning the engine on it’s side and we were ahead of most for a short time.
EddyR
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Randy A. Dailey

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #173 on: August 06, 2016, 04:02:21 PM »
Hi Riley,
   While you are regaining your thoughts, I will tell a story on myself that happened at the 1966 NATS. As you remember you won the Open Combat , and I won the Senior Combat that year. Out of all that happened at at Glenview Naval air station, the thing I remember the most is being Set-up by my pit men Gerald Sanders, and Ray Stone after winning first place in Combat. The week of the contest I met a young girl who was flying in the Senior class combat by the name of Christine Thielen, I think she was from Chicago. We hit it off that week and ran around quite a bit together. I flew 9 matches at the cost of 6 planes to win, but by luck never had to fly against her.
   The next day Gerald wanted to get in some practice with his Combat plane, so Ray Stone and I went along as his pit crew. We no more got to the practice circle when Christine shows up carrying her Combat plane. She asked me if I would fly against her, but I said I didn't have a plane with me to fly. (Thinking, thank God!) So what does my buddy Gerald say, that's not a problem, you can fly mine! (thinking, thanks buddy) Christine gets set up, of course Gerald just happens to have steamers with him and up we both go to battle it out. Christine's plane is very slow , and I planned for an easy Kill, WRONG! I came up behind and low only I pulled up to late and killed myself. Never going to live this down. Christine landed her plane first, and started jumping up and down screaming, I killed you! Before I could even get landed She jumped up and planted a kiss on me busting my lip, and making me fall backwards.When I finally got up on my feet, I see Gerald, and Ray rolling on the ground laughing. From that moment on she was called KILLER CHRISTINE.
   Well that's about all I got to say.

See you at the James Mears Combat Bash, Randy
 

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #174 on: August 07, 2016, 03:40:32 PM »
I take it you never became husband and wife??? LL~ LL~ LL~  Great story. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Randy A. Dailey

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #175 on: August 12, 2016, 06:02:35 PM »
No Doc, it was 3 more years before I found my wife of 47 years this month. I would like to know if anybody out there knows what happened to Killer Christine. I may have her first and last name misspelled.


       Thanks, Randy

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #176 on: August 13, 2016, 05:18:03 PM »

Pitch Dawn Cosmilllo into the mix, too. Excellent flyer, both stunt and combat. Wonder what happened to her as well?
Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #177 on: August 13, 2016, 07:27:46 PM »
Wasn't Dawn on the cover of the 1967 MAN that featured the Super Satan?

Offline De Hill

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #178 on: August 13, 2016, 08:11:07 PM »
Dawn Cosmillo's picture is on the cover of the September, 1967 issue of M.A.N. She is ready to go out in the circle and fly a combat match with a Super Satan. Larry Scarinzi is holding the airplane. The picture was taken at Rich's Hobbytown in New Jersey.

John Miske told me that the last time he saw Dawn was in 1972. She was pushing a baby carriage out at the Garden State Circleburner's field. She had married a NYC policeman.

Larry Scarinzi (who was a good family friend) talked to her a few years ago. She was living in Florida, and was in the jewelry business. She had no interest in model airplanes and didn't want to get reinvolved with the hobby.
De Hill

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #179 on: August 13, 2016, 08:20:20 PM »
We have tried for years to get Dawn to come to the VSC, but as De pointed out, she no longer has any interest.
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #180 on: August 13, 2016, 10:17:11 PM »
Trying not to be "too ignorant" and it may have been discussed earlier...I know how "mono-line" works in speed, but combat? Someone enlighten me please.
Norm
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Online Frank Imbriaco

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #181 on: August 14, 2016, 06:53:46 AM »
Wasn't Dawn on the cover of the 1967 MAN that featured the Super Satan?

Yes,  and Don Shulman( in the background center circle) flying his combat ship as her opponent. Don a Union Model Airplane Club flyer for many a year , a fine stunt pilot and an excellent combat flyer. And, a super, super fun guy to be around.
Many will recognize his last  name- Leon his Dad, a model aviation legend and Don's  sons, Jason and David. Jason remains a top FAI Pattern pilot and the last I heard about David, he was flying jets and in the gold and silver business.

Dawn and Don were an item in the late sixties, but that's old news.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #182 on: August 14, 2016, 07:12:42 AM »
Trying not to be "too ignorant" and it may have been discussed earlier...I know how "mono-line" works in speed, but combat? Someone enlighten me please.
Norm

Moving the bead along 18" of twisted rods isn't nearly as fast as moving your wrist in the normal 2-line method.  So while monoline was legal, it was obviously at a disadvantage in combat & stunt.  In speed it works OK to make minor adjustments to models that pretty-much fly level by themselves.
Paul Smith

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #183 on: August 14, 2016, 09:00:49 AM »


   I gotta get some free time to start reading this thread from the beginning again. I'm not a combat flyer but love the history of model airplanes in general and have enjoyed what I have read so far. Riley, please do the best you can and keep pushing forward with this. I hope someone is saving it electronically. It would make an interesting book or  series of articles in Model Aviation. I know some don't like "that rag" but as the official publication of the AMA, which sanctioned all of the events mentioned, I don't see how they could turn down an offer of a lengthy article along with any photos that could be provided to accompany it. Great stuff and I'm going to see about attending the get together in Tulsa in October just to hang out, watch and listen to stories! Love theh stories, and know Andre Ming from another hobby activity, if he has any involvement, I know the event will be EPIC!
     Type at you later,
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #184 on: September 05, 2016, 07:45:21 PM »
Hi Riley,
   While you are regaining your thoughts, I will tell a story on myself that happened at the 1966 NATS. As you remember you won the Open Combat , and I won the Senior Combat that year. Out of all that happened at at Glenview Naval air station, the thing I remember the most is being Set-up by my pit men Gerald Sanders, and Ray Stone after winning first place in Combat. The week of the contest I met a young girl who was flying in the Senior class combat by the name of Christine Thielen, I think she was from Chicago. We hit it off that week and ran around quite a bit together. I flew 9 matches at the cost of 6 planes to win, but by luck never had to fly against her.
   The next day Gerald wanted to get in some practice with his Combat plane, so Ray Stone and I went along as his pit crew. We no more got to the practice circle when Christine shows up carrying her Combat plane. She asked me if I would fly against her, but I said I didn't have a plane with me to fly. (Thinking, thank God!) So what does my buddy Gerald say, that's not a problem, you can fly mine! (thinking, thanks buddy) Christine gets set up, of course Gerald just happens to have steamers with him and up we both go to battle it out. Christine's plane is very slow , and I planned for an easy Kill, WRONG! I came up behind and low only I pulled up to late and killed myself. Never going to live this down. Christine landed her plane first, and started jumping up and down screaming, I killed you! Before I could even get landed She jumped up and planted a kiss on me busting my lip, and making me fall backwards.When I finally got up on my feet, I see Gerald, and Ray rolling on the ground laughing. From that moment on she was called KILLER CHRISTINE.
   Well that's about all I got to say.

See you at the James Mears Combat Bash, Randy
 

Randy,
It was a real pleasure to meet you at the James Mears memorial combat bash. Thanks for letting us check out your planes.

Riley, I'll talk to Tony Drago here real soon. I'll let him know we had lunch together. Thanks for hanging out sir!

Offline Randy A. Dailey

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2016, 06:50:57 AM »
Dane,
  Sorry it took so long to reply but we were in Lubbock a week and things really got behind at home. I really enjoyed meeting everyone and was really impressed with Bob Mears Combat Plane collection. I am glad that I will be part of adding two Combat planes he didn't have, one is the Zipper designed by Wayne Welch. Wayne had the laser cut short kit I sent him assembled, ready to cover when I was at his house at Lubbock.
     At the Tulsa Vintage Combat reunion 8&9 Oct I am going to give Bob Mears the Spoiler Combat Plane that was built in 1968 and designed by Gerald Sanders.
 

Hope you can make the trip to Tulsa in Oct., Randy

Offline John_Ward

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #186 on: October 23, 2016, 12:36:00 PM »
First off, many thanks to you, Riley, for starting this thread and for your wonderful contributions. I first discovered it two days ago, shortly after lamenting to my wife that nobody had written a history of CL Combat. I'm so pleased to find I was wrong!  It has brought back a wave of nostalgia and many happy memories.  Since you've invited others to share their experiences here, I'll be brave/foolish and add some of my own. First, some background: I'm 71, and grew up in Ithaca NY. I started flying 1/2-A's at age 12, back in 1957. By Fall of that year I had joined AMA and the local club. When the club held its fall meet, I entered and had my first combat match, with a Johnson powered Ringmaster. The match ended quickly in a mid-air, destroying the Ringmaster, but I was hooked, and knew I'd be back the following year for more.  I'll stop here for now, but I hope to add some further posts about the planes we flew, some of the people I met, and most of all the 58 Nats at Glenview. This will all be from the perspective of a 13-year-old who had just discovered a whole new world.

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #187 on: October 23, 2016, 04:53:56 PM »
Welcome aboard John!

Sharing one's personal experience is something Riley has requested several times in this thread. Looking forward to reading more of them!
Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Offline John_Ward

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #188 on: October 24, 2016, 12:14:41 PM »
Thanks, Andre, for your welcome and encouragement. I'm honored to be a part of this group. Also thanks to Fred Van Gorter, who pointed me to the Flying Lines web pages, with all the combat history collected there. I've got some reading to do! Anyway, to continue, I'll try to recall some of the people I knew and flew with.
Our club was the Ithaca Model Squadron, a pretty classy name (we thought) for what was in truth a pretty laid back bunch. There were about 30 guys, roughly half were Juniors. Most of us kids never went beyond fooling with 1/2-A's in our back yards. Good experience, though; if you could get a Cub .049 to start and run on Testor's 39, anything else was a piece of cake. How we beginners got stuck with that engine/fuel pairing is another story.
There were about a dozen serious contestors in the club, but I can only remember a few of the core. Seniors included the Mason brothers, Dick and Gary; Dave DeSantis; and Strether "Stretch" Smith. Our gurus, the big guns in Open, were Harold Porter, Al Smith and Charlie Phillips. I should also mention hobby shop owner Paul Patten, who never flew but came to meetings and as many contests as he could, and was really supportive in every respect. Charlie was the real ringleader; his energy and enthusiasm were boundless and contagious. At 36, he was the Patriarch (my, how things have changed!). He picked the contest itinerary, as he was most familiar with the neighboring clubs and could tell us where the best meets and competition would be found. We were rarely disappointed.
There was a hotbed of modellers in Northeastern Pennsylvania, so we'd hit four or five meets in that region. T-Square designer Dick Schwarzchild lived in Wilkes-Barre, so PA was T-square country. More on that later. There were some great modelers there: Schwarzchild was another "spark plug", whose drive and enthiusiasm was a big asset. Seniors I remember were Lee Lyons, Mike Haravitch and Bob Heminway. Open flyers included
Schwarzchild, when he wasn't acting as CD, Jesse Hopper and Wesley Levan. There were many others; I just can't remember their names. This is getting long, so I'll take a break here.

Offline John_Ward

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #189 on: October 25, 2016, 06:14:56 PM »
I've thrown away several pages of scribbles in the last two days, trying to write about the models we flew without rambling on and on and boring everyone to death. Here's Take 3: Today a Flite Streak seems like a pretty mundane airplane, but when it first appeared in 1958 it was a Game Changer.  Flying wings were prevalent in the NY/PA region in '57. On the positive side they were simple and rugged, the philosophy being it was better to be in the air with a fair mount than on the ground with a broken one. Some were pretty fast, but they all mushed through the turns, losing speed, and none could turn very tight. While there was some diversity, overall the playing field was pretty level. Our club had some good flyers, so did our rivals; competition was hot, life was good. Then in the winter/spring of 1958 the Flite Streak appeared in the hobby shops. Charlie Phillips bought one and got real excited; I can still hear him exclaiming, "Build it right out of the box". This, coming from a guy who rarely built anything "right out of the box", got our attention. He was right: it would easily outrun and outturn any of the popular 'wings, and was almost as tough. The Ithaca gang bought them like popcorn, convinced we'd found the Ultimate Machine. Most of the guys we flew against that Summer were still flying last year's planes, so the 'Streak was the right plane at the right time. When a group of us headed for the Glenview Nats later that Summer, George Aldrich was well represented; we were carrying a Nobler and 11 Flite Streaks.
Enough for now; next time I'll talk about Glenview, where we met Riley, and how he changed all our thinking again.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #190 on: October 25, 2016, 06:46:44 PM »
Ramble away sir,
I really, enjoy reading about your adventures. Without these stories, guys like me wouldn't know what was out there back then! It helps for the new nostalgia events.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #191 on: October 25, 2016, 08:54:56 PM »
Yes, keep the stories coming.  I flew a little combat locally, but navy carrier and racing is where I had good outcomes.  I well remember the Flite Streak.  Never had a plane as responsive and controllable  until the VooDoo made the scene.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline John_Ward

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Re: 50's-60's combat history
« Reply #192 on: October 27, 2016, 04:13:29 PM »
Thanks for the support; I'm glad someone's enjoying this stuff. That being the case, I've decided to add a bit more background:
Willow Grove is about a 3 hour drive from Ithaca, so quite a few from our group had attended the '57 Nats. Dave DeSantis had flown a few rounds in Senior Combat, and Stretch Smith had done even better, coming in fourth. Both had had their appetites whetted, and were making plans for Glenview. Dick Manteuffel had agreed to ride along as pit crew, and they had room for one more. They had watched Junior combat in PA and felt the competiton was pretty weak, so they asked several of us Juniors if we'd like to come along and try our luck. My parents were the only ones who consented, so to my surprise, I was going to the Nats. In usual modeller tradition we all needed new planes, and time was short. Dave offered to share his shop with me, so together we turned out seven Flite Streaks in four days. Waiting for glue to dry was the hardest part; no CA back then. Covering and doping happened on the day before departure; Dave had a spray rig, so that part went fast. No time left, so all flight testing was done at Glenview, where we discovered the leadouts were set wrong and we had almost no line tension. Shimming the engines for lots of right thrust was a quick fix, but control remained marginal; we'd just have to live with it.  Stretch's planes were new and untried as well, but they were set up properly and flew fine. Stretch had borrowed his grandmother's 1948 Chrysler, removed the back seat and put a matress on the floor. He and Dave would take turns driving and sleeping, so we could travel non-stop. This worked out well. The remaining space was crammed with planes and gear; the Nobler rode on a sling rigged above the matress and the Flite Streaks, with tails removed, were stacked up, side by side and nose down, across the trunk.
More to come, but I need a break to collect my thoughts.


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