Author Topic: 50's-60's combat history (Read 42644 times)

Larry Borden · « **Reply #100 on:** October 31, 2015, 10:26:11 AM »

Quote from: Tom_Fluker on October 31, 2015, 09:40:54 AM

Andre

I considered going to college in Lubbock. Doubt I would have graduated, but I do know that Riley, James, Bobby and Andy would have made a combat flyer out of me!

Kid, you turned out to be a pretty good combat pilot on your own, if I remember correctly.

Andre Ming · « **Reply #101 on:** October 31, 2015, 11:36:16 AM »

Quote from: Larry Borden on October 31, 2015, 10:26:11 AM

Kid, you turned out to be a pretty good combat pilot on your own, if I remember correctly.

LOL! I was sort of thinking that myself!!

Thanks Tom for sharing some of your experiences in this, "The Mother Of All Combat Threads".

john e. holliday · « **Reply #102 on:** October 31, 2015, 01:23:25 PM »

Tom, I thought you were a combat flyer even though I remember you and your Dad from racing. Also didn't you win the first World Combat Meet over seas? And Riley I too wish I had been around the combat circles more, but at the time carrier and rat racing was taking my time. I was so privalaged to get to meet James Mears, you and others at the Tuscon Combat meet many years ago. That was right after I had retired and spent three weeks with Aunt Betty and Mother-in-law.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #103 on:** October 31, 2015, 03:33:46 PM »

Quote from: riley wooten on October 30, 2015, 09:52:42 AM

1959 turned out to be an unusual but busy year. With all the new guys a lot of flying and weekend competition taking place improved everyone. The first chance for them to enter a contest came at Abilene, Tx. I don't remember much about this contest except they all really had a good time and were hooked. It was windy, the T Squares would not make it upwind and the cd allowed combat to be flown either clockwise or counter clockwise. First and only time and the rules say counter clockwise but seems some locals flew the other way. I flew one of them, eliminating him and flew most of the match inverted.....

Since this history is a lot of my experiences I will go to a side note that side tracked me a little.. Seems Don and Wayne(sidekicks) bought a go kart. I went with them to race it. They did not do well and asked me to help with the engine. We took the engine apart, did a little port work and the next race ran second in all the races.. A little ol guy (all of 45-50) won every race easily. Trying to be friendly I ask what he had done to the engine to be so much faster than everyone.. He informed me in no uncertain terms that he was a boat mechanic and knew more about 2 strokes than anyone and I would not even know what he was talking about.... Being the competitive person I was, my thought at that point is I have got to beat this guy.... You guessed it; buy a kart, rebuild the engine as much as rules would allow turning the 5.8 cu. in. engine that was designed for about 5,000 rpm into a 12,000 rpm machine.. In those days everyone was running gas so I modified carb to run alcohol base fuel (legal)...... To make a long story short, the first time we raced I blew him off the track; he protested my engine and I asked who got to look inside. The marshal said "only me, why" and I told him in front of the guy "since he knows more about 2 cycles than anyone I don't want him to see what I have done". He did not get to see, my engine was legal, and I got his protest money... After that everything was anticlimactic but now everyone wanted me to rebuild their engines and carbs...... The money was good but took all my time. My shop was now filled with engines and carbs and I was burning out fast.... By the way the kart never lost a race..... I sold it to a friend and he was winning with it 2 years later......

Back to models and the 59 nats !!
RW

Riley that sounds like my diversion into Indian motorcycle restoration and part replications. I burned out in a couple years and didn't enjoy my own bikes during that time.

riley wooten · « **Reply #104 on:** November 02, 2015, 09:50:21 PM »

Just got back from the Gleasons fish fry/fly. It is always a great time with Dale and Linda Bob.. They are the very best people you could know and great host....
When we got back home the fish were running and Marion has tired me out taking her out fishing... She can catch them faster than I can clean them...... We will get into the story of the Voodoo and it's variations and the 60 nats next... Right now it's bed and recover from fishing......
RW

Tom_Fluker · « **Reply #105 on:** November 03, 2015, 07:19:23 AM »

Quote from: riley wooten on November 02, 2015, 09:50:21 PM

When we got back home the fish were running and Marion has tired me out taking her out fishing... She can catch them faster than I can clean them......

It is tough when fishing gets in the way of story telling. Now that I think about it, I thought fishing was story telling or vice versa.

Tom

riley wooten · « **Reply #106 on:** November 03, 2015, 09:15:38 AM »

OK, Tom; back to the story!! The 1960 nats is going to be in our back yard at Dallas.. Some, if not all the new guys want to go to their first nats so there is some excitement in the group....

After the 59 nats I start to wind down my kart racing and selling all my stuff so I can get more involved with modeling.. I want to refine my stabilator designs and get ready for 60. Remember earlier I told of my design requirements (frame up in no more than 1 hour, material cost $1.00; but this keeps going up) I also liked to stay around a 4 to 1 aspect ratio and use no more than 36" balsa... This seemed to give me the best combination of performance and strength...
325 sq. in. seemed to be the minimum area to get a decent wing loading so this gave us a wing of 36" to 42" (3" tips) and a cord of 9" - 9.25".... This had worked for me in the past so I would stay with that basic plan form.....

Something that always amused me was the guys always bragging about having the tightest turning planes.. While a tight turn is important I always wanted a plane that would maintain as much speed in turns as possible... I could always open up a little on the so called tight turning plane and still be where I wanted to be, and arrive with more speed... In fact, if he slowed too much you had to be careful not to overrun your opponent.....

Next we get into the Sniper (Voodoo), the Sonic, Supersonic and some differences and things we tried.. Trouble is I lost all my records and notes in the LS fire so it will all have to be from memory......
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #107 on:** November 03, 2015, 07:03:40 PM »

Before I start this post can anyone tell me when the large case Johnson CS was released?? I cannot remember this at all so I need help... I think it was 1960 and one of the reasons I was trying different things.. The new engines were heavier and produced more power.. The Sniper basically became the Voodoo because Carl Coldberg did not like the name.... The Sniper had a little more span and larger stab. The airfoil was the same as the Quicker without the reflex..
He also wanted the cg a little further forward so the average sport flyer could handle it to bore holes in the sky with no combat in mind... He must have been right as it was a huge success selling over 50,000 kits a year

The Sonic, Super Sonic and variants were all basically the same with tip, airfoil, moment and stab changes... I tried many airfoils between 12% and 18%..... Surprisingly, under very controlled conditions using the same engine, prop and fuel the fastest times were with the 18% airfoil.. Don't get me wrong as all times were very, very close and the best two times were with the 18%... For best all around and to suit my style with speed through turns the 15% range was my choice.... Some of the Sonic series also used elliptical stabilators of different sizes, both flat plate and airfoiled with counter balance. My favorite was a fairly large, airfoiled stab with a small counter balance and the hinge pivot point at 3" behind the wing TE..... This year I used crankcase pressure metal tanks but they all would have been better on bladders... I thought these things are really good; I'l be loaded for bear this year.............
RW

Howard Rush · « **Reply #108 on:** November 04, 2015, 11:32:29 AM »

Quote from: riley wooten on November 03, 2015, 07:03:40 PM

Before I start this post can anyone tell me when the large case Johnson CS was released??

I saw Carl Berryman with the ball bearing version in 1961. I think the plain bearing version came out earlier.

riley wooten · « **Reply #109 on:** November 04, 2015, 01:34:18 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on November 04, 2015, 11:32:29 AM

I saw Carl Berryman with the ball bearing version in 1961. I think the plain bearing version came out earlier.

Howard, thanks for reply.. I am sure you are right and after a little more searching I feel like 60 was the year. I remember getting them both the same year but liked plain bearing and was getting more from it.. Carl liked the BB much better.

riley wooten · « **Reply #110 on:** November 04, 2015, 03:44:37 PM »

After getting the big case, big shaft Johnsons the first thing I did was re-time them as before and take as much weight as possible off the crank throw side... With the big shaft I.D. the case volume was increased so I stuffed the shaft. This was done by roughing up the front I. D. of the shaft with course grinder so epoxy would stay in place.. I had learned and used Hysol epoxy on go-kart engines with no problems. I would warm the part (not hot) before applying the Hysol (do not remember number).. It would dry to a medium hardness and was easy to form and grind before it cured completely, then it became rock hard... I never had any come loose...... I made a jig that would hold the shaft, front down at about 35 to 40 degree angle, opening up and pour the Hyson in slowly, making sure there were no air bubbles. The shaft in front of the opening was filled and the epoxy was then formed to make a nice radius back into the shaft and engine, making a better flow pattern, while reducing volume.. I also made some squish band, trumpet heads that worked well..

The only problem now was that I could not under prop them or use too much nitro or I would blow the jug off.. At this point I had (IMHO) the best engines for combat anywhere.. I used a lot of Superfuel type 5% and 10% fuel.......
RW

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #111 on:** November 05, 2015, 04:19:13 AM »

This is a little later than the thread time frame but some might find it interesting, Dayton NATS in the 70's, I can't remember who is who in the photo.

riley wooten · « **Reply #112 on:** November 05, 2015, 08:12:40 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on November 05, 2015, 04:19:13 AM

This is a little later than the thread time frame but some might find it interesting, Dayton NATS in the 70's, I can't remember who is who in the photo.

[/quote

Thanks to Howard Rush the guys in the photo are: Top - Greg Hissem, Mike Strieter, Sherwood Buckstaff Front - Will Rogers & Gary Stevens

Also, in my last post I am afraid I made it sound like the Johnsons could be easily blown.. I did not mean it that way as they were the most reliable and easy starting engines I had ever used... Let me just say that after our mods they were capable of producing more power than they were designed for. We could back off and still have all the power we needed.......
RW

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #113 on:** November 06, 2015, 01:01:23 PM »

Interesting listing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALIFORNIA-MODELS-COMPANY-QUICKER-COMBAT-AIRPLANE-DELUXE-CUSTOM-KIT-/252123134331?hash=item3ab3b5b97b:g:M0YAAOSw0HVWExh5

riley wooten · « **Reply #114 on:** November 06, 2015, 03:25:14 PM »

1960 arrived with a lot of excitement, building and flying going on in our area. Everyone was looking forward to going to the Nationals at NAS Grand Prairie, TX.
I had what I thought to be more good planes and engines than ever before. All the local contest were well attended with great competition... Everyones equipment was getting better with a lot of good flying... Unlike 1956 when we went as rookies and not expecting much, this time we had high expectations. I thought at least some of our bunch would do very well....

There seemed to be a bigger array of planes at the nats than usual.. Every thing from a lot of good planes to a throttle controlled Flitestreak and a RM with single wheel gear top and bottom, plus some other strange stuff.. I had two very light Sonics (Voodoo) with different stabilator that were very good. Carl's Big Irons also looked good... Our other guys had good stuff too. Overall the quality and quantity was better than before..

I lost my best plane practice flying when an almost new set of Sullivan lines failed. I always used Seven Strand so don't know why I even had them... Also this year I decided to give up stunt at the nats since it created a schedule problem.. As it turned out, this year it would not as combat ended early for me.....
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #115 on:** November 06, 2015, 06:24:59 PM »

Again, for all that did not get a chance to attend a Navy Nats you just don't know what you missed.. It was quite an event; a large hanger with planes and modelers every where. Everything from hand launch gliders to RC scale, people building planes and running engines outside the doors.. Then about midnight someone fires up a Dynajet to wake up the troops.

Early in the week before combat competition started a bunch of us guys decided to go to a local Tavern for some adult beverages. These included 6'8" Carl Berryman and 6'7" Howard Henry. The rest of us little guys were just 6' plus.... If you ever stayed in a Navy barrack in Dallas in August you would know why we weren't in any hurry to go to bed..... Hot is not a good enough word!!! We came in about midnight to take a cold shower to cool off and see if we could sleep.. We may have been making a little noise and some guy yells "hey you Texans, shut up and be quite". A few more words were said and by this time the whole barrack was awake. Carl, being the easy going guy he is jokingly walks over to the loud guys bunk, lifts it up by the foot and the guy slides out on his head. The whole barrack is laughing; tensions eased and we take our showers and hit the sack...Our barrack was very easy going and fun the rest of the week.

This was now my 4th nats, Carl's 2nd and the first for our other guys. They were nervous and did not do well.. Most won early matches but I don't remember what happened on their loses, including Carl. I do remember that Don lost to the guy with the throttled Streak.... Too much speed difference, changing speeds and he kept over shooting him.. Do not remember for sure but I don't think any of our bunch won anything... Fun, but we did not do good!!!

The flight that helped changed the fast combat rules coming up next....
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #116 on:** November 07, 2015, 10:23:16 AM »

My flight against Bill Carpenter has to go down as the longest match in nats history.. I think it was in the quarter finals but could have been any time as I just do not remember.. Bill was the local top dog in Van Nuys, Anaheim area, I think and one of the Hi Johnson bunch.. He also designed the Swoop (later Sterling Kit).. I guess he was a one time wonder as I never heard of him after that.....If I am wrong someone can fill me in as he may still have been flying in southern Cal. At that time Cal. was not a hot bed of good combat..............

Our match starts and right away he gets a small cut of about 6". I make a move and come in behind him and what happens; he crashes or what I would better describe it pancakes into the ground... Broken prop and no other damage. My thinking is he will be right back up but watching it is obvious he is not going up. One lead is not even hooked to battery and they are flipping away....

The rules at that time gave you 60 points for a cut (I think) and if you hit the ground it cost you 25 points.. We had only flown a few seconds, and he was up by 35 points.. If he stayed on the ground for the next 4-1/2 minutes he won.. Most guys would not do that but the only thing to stop it by rule was the disqualification for unsportsman like conduct and that's not called often.....

I'm screwed, must do something so I whipped the plane into a half wing over using the wind to build up speed and snapped a hard 180 and sure enough the string broke right behind the plane.. That stopped the clock since the string was weak and it was determined the management was at fault.. I fly out the tank
and we tie new streamer on. The judges tell the other pit crew they must try to restart. I take off again, full tank and we are on the clock.. Again, you can see they are not going back up so I repeat the same maneuver with the same results. Another 5 min. flying out the tank and judges talk to them again.. Another streamer and off again.. Same results with only a few more seconds off the clock.. This kept going on until we finally used up the time.. Bill was not going back up and that was it.. I did not know him but his crew were friends (I thought) and I must say I was pissed.. I never thought winning at all cost was all that important, but apparently some do. I still contend he should have been disqualified.......... He did go on to win open and I hope he was proud of himself.......

Oops, interruption; will be back.
RW

Andre Ming · « **Reply #117 on:** November 07, 2015, 03:47:21 PM »

Re: Wooten/Carpenter match...

Not the way I would want to win a match. Sounds to me like he was running scared. That is, he got a first cut and feared he couldn't hold his own so he took the chicken's way out and won the match by staying on the ground.

Hm. Makes me look at my Super Swoop kit a bit differently.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #118 on:** November 07, 2015, 04:30:12 PM »

That's sad to hear Riley. I'd rather kicked my @$$ kicked by someone better so i can learn how to get better myself. Again, thank you for this historic recollection.

Larry Borden · « **Reply #119 on:** November 08, 2015, 10:05:09 AM »

Chicago Nats, 1972. I flew Bill Rutherford and he got up first. John Deaton my pitman couldn't get the engine to start. Bill had the match on time, when my engine started. John launched me just as Bill flew by. Killed him on the way up. Heard all sorts of words from Bill. Pure dumb luck on my part.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #120 on:** November 08, 2015, 02:27:26 PM »

The only NATS I made was '71 in Glenview. I flew in Senior Combat and as I recall, the Guillotines were out in full force. When the dust settled Bernie Varnau (R) took first in Senior with his "Motivator", and Dave Bush (L) took second with his "Dinosaur".

The drinking age back then was 18, and I was a little short. No matter, the guys on the Detroit Combat Team took good care of me. We rode back home playing poker in the back of a big van, and by the time we passed Kalamazoo I was silly-faced. When we reached the Motor City I was broke...but still owned my clothes, shoes and a few Tornado 8-8s.

riley wooten · « **Reply #121 on:** November 10, 2015, 07:05:29 PM »

Just a note to tell everyone following this thread that my wife, Marion passed away yesterday very unexpectedly. This beautiful Lady that I had known for over 65 years and been married to for 63+ was my inspiration and best friend.. Please forgive me for not continuing this history for a short time............
RW

PS: FYI - Services 2:00pm Thursday 11/12/15 Sanders Funeral Home, Lubbock, Tx..

john e. holliday · « **Reply #122 on:** November 10, 2015, 07:15:32 PM »

Riley, I was shocked to see the notice and did not respond there. I do not know what you are going through. Any way take care of your self and when the time is right you can finish this.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #123 on:** November 10, 2015, 07:17:54 PM »

I'm very sorry, Mr. Wooten. In this dark hour, please accept my condolences.

Chad Hill

Andre Ming · « **Reply #124 on:** November 10, 2015, 07:41:26 PM »

So very saddened to read of this, Riley. I can't imagine how your heart must be hurting. I fully understand how that this is a time for you and your family to be together. Family is the most important element for all of you at this time. The last thing you need to be bothered with is to feel compelled to deal with this ongoing combat history. It can wait for as long as needed, and if it doesn't continue, I, for one, would certainly understand.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #125 on:** November 10, 2015, 07:51:24 PM »

As posted elsewhere, my deepest sympathies. Marion was a lovely lady who was always a joy to greet at the VSC with a big smile and a hug. Sincere condolences. We'll miss her.

Dennis Leonhardi · « **Reply #126 on:** November 10, 2015, 11:51:00 PM »

I'm very sorry to hear that Riley, and can't begin to imagine the loss you must feel. Sincere condolences from Minnesota ...

Dennis

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #127 on:** November 11, 2015, 06:07:24 AM »

So sorry to hear this, my deepest sympathies and prayers for you and yours.

riley wooten · « **Reply #128 on:** November 16, 2015, 11:34:14 AM »

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS

I will try to continue this history shortly as my wife wanted me to do this.....
RW

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #129 on:** November 16, 2015, 03:12:19 PM »

Take your time sir, we are not going any where but out to the shop to build or the field to fly, and more importantly, reflecting on our own families and loved ones as we pray for your family

Your family and you come first

Warmest reguards

Bill Adair · « **Reply #130 on:** November 16, 2015, 03:20:35 PM »

Please let me add my condolences.

I can imagine what your going through right now, as my wife of 55 years passed away earlier this year. Took a long time for the pain to let up, but things are slowly returning to normal. Family and friends have helped me get through this, and my hobbies are getting more attention than they have for years.

Best wishes for you and yours.

Bill

Gordon Van Tighem · « **Reply #131 on:** November 23, 2015, 04:29:22 PM »

This post has been so interesting I went downstairs to the museum and found an unopened Wooten kit. Anyone familiar with the 'Shadow'?
If you enlarge the pictures they go right side up....

Bob Mears · « **Reply #132 on:** November 24, 2015, 07:58:58 AM »

I have the Sizzor and Shadow in inventory awaiting a build for the museum. Pete Jaden and I campaigned those models back when they were new. Really a great airplane.

Larry Borden · « **Reply #133 on:** November 24, 2015, 10:01:47 AM »

Wasn't there a Vampire also? I was thinking that was the first foam wing kit Riley produced.

Bob Mears · « **Reply #134 on:** November 24, 2015, 10:16:36 AM »

Yes, Vampire is 68. Scizzor and Shadow was about 72 I think

riley wooten · « **Reply #135 on:** November 24, 2015, 10:51:11 AM »

The Vampire actually was in 65 and first foam kit. First version of Shadow and Sizzor early 70's - 71 or 2 I think. Bob did quite well with them powered by Fox 36XBB.. They kept getting more squares as engines got more powerful..
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #136 on:** November 29, 2015, 08:02:29 PM »

Taking up where I lost to Bill Carpenter at the 1960 Nats. He did win under the rules at the time, but being in the air for all of probably 20 seconds and staying on the ground for the next 10 means he was afraid to fly.. He could not win in the air and he knew it... If that were not the case why did he not restart? He never had a starting problem at any other time during the contest, with under 10 second starts every time........ The judges did not do their job to allow this, and it did start the rule to give one point per second air time to stop it. With the air time rule you had to at least stay in the air or get a total of cuts and air time to win.........

That year the most popular planes were stibalitor designs with a few of the old still present... I felt like I had the best engine/plane combos there and that is where Carl Goldberg contacted me about kitting a combat plane. I had met Carl earlier at the 58 Nats but had only seen him at the Na ts. He went out with me and watched as I flew a couple of flights. We decided on the Sniper for a kit but I thought the Sonic with a balanced stab was a better plane.... With a few minor changes the Sniper became the Voodoo because it was a little easier to build. Carl was a little concerned because he was not convinced a combat kit would sell in large enough quantities to be profitable at the price needed.. He wanted it to appeal to the average non competition flyer who just wanted to bore holes in the sky.. I guess he was right as we sold over 50,000 kit per year the first few years. These figures would be unheard of today...........

The Voodoo was in MAN a few months later and the Voodoo kit was released, I think in the spring of 61.. I made a deal with Carl that he would pay more in royalties for every year that a Voodoo was used to win the Nats......That was a good move for me as it won in some class for several years!!
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #137 on:** December 05, 2015, 10:31:02 AM »

When I started this I expected other people to add their history from other parts of our country but it's turned out to be mostly my story. Maybe all you other guys are to young to go back that far so I guess we will continue as before. I am headed for the Big Easy and a fishing trip for the next few days. After that I will get into changing jobs, getting into the model industry and ect......... 1961
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #138 on:** December 16, 2015, 01:47:43 PM »

Well after a long pause, a great fishing trip and taking time to reflect on my life, both the good times and bad I am going to try to go forward with this story for those interested..
1961 was a year of great change for me. About June Duke Fox called me and offered me a job paying quite a lot more than I was making, plus a chance to own part of the company.. Knowing the history of most modelers that had worked for Fox I was concerned but accepted his offer. I left a great job at GE to be the general manager of his recently purchased Berkley Models. Duke was a little different. You could not lay out a plan and present it to him. You just had to make remarks or hints and let him come up with the idea or it was no good. He just could not delegate authority.. I tried my best to get him to produce a new combat engine that was almost the same as the much later mk4. In the early 60's it would have dominated.. At this time Fox did one thing new in that he produced a kit called the Rumble. Very close to a straight wing Sweet Sweep and it flew good.. I saw the writing on the wall and did not stay long as I knew I would never fit in. I did learn a few things about equipment that would help later in the balsa business so that was a plus.......... So now I am back in Lubbock, but without a job. I did not go to the 61 Nats as money was short and it was in Pa. I went to work selling building supplies and with the royalties from the Voodoo kits which were selling very well things were good. In early 62 I get my chance to get into the model and hobby business.
Our club was at it's strongest about this time. We had a lot of guys and a lot of combat in West Texas.. The competition was great with the likes of Carl and Marvin added to the locals..
RW

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #139 on:** December 16, 2015, 02:24:33 PM »

Riley your note on Dec 5th about hoping others would add their memories did find me with too short and much later model airplane history to write about

That said, I am fascinated by your words here and some of the others who have added to the history... your doing this on the forum is great

But I dearly wish I was your neighbor and we could banter back and forth over a beer or whatever and as you remember something and I could ask questions

I am an engine guy and would pester you about how you learned to modify them, what worked, and what did not and why.....same about secret fuel blends or glow plug choices, and that begs propeller brand, mods, and choices/testing

I sort of like to hear about the controversies that positively shaped stunt and combat contests as well as the gentlemen that were detractors

Any way God Bless sir...if this was a book I would buy it

riley wooten · « **Reply #140 on:** December 17, 2015, 09:33:43 PM »

In late 61; early 62 I designed the Sneeker and built several prototypes. I also built and flew my first foam combat plane.. I was trying to keep it such a secret that I flew it at an out of the way school ground with my wife launching. It was not so much I did not want them to know about the foam as I was afraid of getting laughed at if it did not fly well. It was a good move, the plane flew very good, but about half way through the flight exploded, and I do mean exploded!!! My theory was that I could use stub spars 16" long for the center section and the GM silkspan applied with thinned white glue would give enough skin strength for the outer panels. What I did not consider was that the joint between the foam and spars was not rigid since the foam could give. It probably would have worked if I had glued the end of the spars with vertical grain 1/16" balsa to create a rigid box. Rather than fool with this it was just easier to use full length spars, although I did box them at the tips as well and they were tapered to about 1'8" sq. at tips. This second generation flew very well and there is a good story to tell when we come back. There was so much going on in 62 that I will not get everything in the right order but will get it all in..........
RW

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #141 on:** December 18, 2015, 05:45:22 AM »

I went to the Nats in 1961 and flew in Junior Combat. I had hoped to get to meet Mr. Wooten, or at least see him fly, but, alas he was not in attendance. It was like going to Vegas and not getting to see Sinatra!

I flew my prized flamed, red Quicker at that meet and was eliminated early. However, one of my former UMAC club mates, Frank Pisz took first in Junior flying a Torp Greenhead 35 powered Quicker. Senior was won by Harry Schell (SP?) who flew a Veco Renegade, and Open was won by Jim Ribar who flew a modified Quicker that he called the "Explorer." So, even though Riley wasn't there, his influence was still present in his designs.

At that Nats I got to watch Bob Gialdini fly his legendary Olympic design in the Open stunt event, and, well, that was it for me and Combat; I started on my path as a stunt flier at that point.

Riley: May I offer my very belated condolences on your devastating loss. I know her memory and her love will live on in your heart forever.

Bob Hunt

riley wooten · « **Reply #142 on:** December 18, 2015, 08:43:44 PM »

Bob, first I want to thank you as well as all others for the kind words. It has been a tough month+. Marion (my wife of 63 yrs) went with me a few days before her heart attack to launch the electric Flitestreak Bob Mears had given me. Her comments after landing was "looks like old times and you never quit" to which I said you must not have seen my legs shaking. That was her, always happy, smiling, positive and encouraging....
On to the foam combat plane which was probably the first foam control line model in history and maybe any foam model... I sure don't know for sure......
I met Carl Berryman in Altus Oklahoma and we went to Tulsa for a Glue Dobbers contest. I took a Voodoo, a Sneeker and the foam plane.. The foam plane was covered with 00 silkspan and thinned white glue, then sprayed lightly with Aero Gloss. It was hard to tell it was foam and no one noticed.... I decided to fly it in the first match to see how it did against competition.. You can probably guess the end to this story. I had quite a bit of speed on the other model, not enough flying time on the foamie and sure enough I t-boned him.!! WOW, what a snowstorm!! It actually looked like it was snowing. Remember, this was in the old days with a lot of people at contest.. Everyone was running out to grab what ever was falling from the sky to see what it was.. It was exciting and very funny. The foam I was using was not bonded together as good as today so it really came apart into many beads. So that is how the first flight of a foam combat plane in history ended. That was not the only excitement at that contest. I had a cutaway on one of my other planes and it hit a spectators car.. Boy, was he upset and I assured him my insurance would take care of it. It only hit the front bumper and did almost no damage but he was sure he would not get paid for it.. AMA insurance was very good in those days and he later thanked me for getting it taken care of even from several hundred miles away.. I don't remember if we won or not but we had a blast and the TGD guys are great!! By the way, I think that was the only fly away I ever had in thousands of flights...
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #143 on:** December 23, 2015, 07:06:27 PM »

In 1961 a couple of guys with the help of ones banker father started a hobby wholesale distributor business in Lubbock.. By the end of 61 they were in trouble and about to go broke. The father called me in January, 62 and wanted to meet with me. The meeting went well and he hired me to become the president and general manager with the power to do anything I needed to turn it around.. In two years we had doubled in size and started Flite Line Products to produce kits and import balsa from Ecuador.. He then gave me 10% of the company and I was into the hobby business for better or worse...... More on this later but lets talk combat....
The 62 Nats would be in Chicago (actually Glenview NAS), the Voodoo kits were pretty new and very popular. I had built my latest, the Sneeker and was working on getting the kit out. Sherwood Buckstaff came up from Houston and spent the summer with Bentley Page while building and flying with us.... It was a good summer. Pete Jaden, a local junior was going to his first Nats. He was working hard, getting better every day in both combat and stunt.. My wife was going with me to Chicago, which she did not always get to do because of other commitments........... I think she may have been our good luck charm as we all did well. My only setback was that the night before combat finals someone decided they needed my best Sneeker and Johnson CS more than I and took them.. As I remember they also took a couple of other combat planes but I do not remember just what.. It was the only time I ever had anything stolen from the hanger, but it really put me in a bind for planes for the final day.. We put the word out thinking that at some time they would show up somewhere and someone would spot them.. Never heard anything!!
Bentley Page was flying very good at the Nats and had good planes but kept having fuel problems. His bladder would start rotating in the container until it twisted the fuel supply off. Carl and I were pitting and we tried all kind of tricks to stop it but it cost Bentley a match and he was out.. Never have I seen this any other time.. Pete had good planes and was flying really good in junior.... The same thing can be said for Sherwood and I think that got him going in combat.. Carl and I were pitting for them and things went very well. Pete won Junior combat.... Sherwood won Senior combat..... Carl was second in open combat and I won Open combat... All of us except Carl had flown together all summer but CARL WAS ONE OF US !!!!! We were lucky "A CLEAN SWEEP" It don't get any better than this !!! When I get back I will talk about Carl and my final flight, until then I would like to wish everyone

A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY, WONDERFUL NEW YEAR!!!!
God Bless RW

Andre Ming · « **Reply #144 on:** December 25, 2015, 07:50:31 AM »

Thank you so much for the continual installments to your "History Of Combat As RW Lived It".

And, Merry Christmas to you and your family. May His grace be with you all this year.

Andre

riley wooten · « **Reply #145 on:** January 05, 2016, 10:46:57 PM »

Hope everyone is having a good 2016 with high expectations... Time flies and life is like a river; you never touch the same water twice, but at least we can remember when and where we touched it.. I left off with the 1962 and the combat event. Remember, our group won big. Pete Jaden won Junior combat
and finished 3rd in Junior stunt (except for a little help I gave him with the wing) with a plane he built all by himself... Sherwood Buckstaff won Senior and I won Open. The final flight between Carl Berryman and myself is one to go down in history and is even talked about today by anyone old enough to remember.
Carl and I had flown for first in many contest but our goal was to meet in the finals for first at the Nationals... After two days of combat matches we were finally the only two left and would finally get our wish. We had pitted for each other during all the other matches but now would have to get others to help pit.
This was not much of a problem as we always started our own engines at that time..... Just needed someone to launch and do other little things.. We had always said that if we ever met at the Nationals it would be decided in the air, not on the ground. Besides, what could go wrong, we are pros!! LOL I was afraid I was at a disadvantage as the Voodoo was a stock kit that was too heavy and way nose heavy, but it had served me well the rest of finals day.. Remember I had my best planes stolen the night before finals day and I hadn't planned to have to use it... Everything goes normal as we go into the circle and get ready for the final flight.. Carl and I go through the regular routine ( you know; lets have a good match, may the best man win, yatta, yatta) You have all been there no matter which event you are flying....... We get ready to start, I get a bump, the starting signal is given and Carl yells I have a blown plug. No problem we will wait on you.. However there was a problem, I forgot to disconnect my battery while Carl replaced his plug.. He got a bump and said let's go and immediately started.. Second problem, while waiting still hooked up my plug was gone. While I changed my plug everyone was yelling at Carl to go up but he would not and said we were going up together which we did. We had one of those great, clean, long matches before I finally killed him giving me first place.. It was a sweet but bitter victory as Carl has always been one of my best friends, both in person and in modeling. The sad thing is we never got to repeat this once in a lifetime event..... I guess that is why it is once in a lifetime!!!
RW

Dane Martin · « **Reply #146 on:** January 06, 2016, 11:07:15 AM »

Happy New year's Riley! Thanks for continuing this story. It's so good, it was actually a topic in our last club meeting. Then two separate guys I've spoke to on the phone have brought this up!

Thank you!

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #147 on:** January 07, 2016, 08:31:32 AM »

Thanks Riley, I'll get back to the compilation now. Your match with Carl reminds me of a FF situation I had with a close friend. At the 90 Nats I won Wakefield beating him by 1 second. 2 days later flying Old Timer Large Stick he beat me..............by one second!

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #148 on:** January 07, 2016, 11:23:40 AM »

Quote from: riley wooten on January 05, 2016, 10:46:57 PM

Hope everyone is having a good 2016 with high expectations... Time flies and life is like a river; you never touch the same water twice, but at least we can remember when and where we touched it.. I left off with the 1962 and the combat event. Remember, our group won big. Pete Jaden won Junior combat
and finished 3rd in Junior stunt (except for a little help I gave him with the wing) with a plane he built all by himself... Sherwood Buckstaff won Senior and I won Open. The final flight between Carl Berryman and myself is one to go down in history and is even talked about today by anyone old enough to remember.
Carl and I had flown for first in many contest but our goal was to meet in the finals for first at the Nationals... After two days of combat matches we were finally the only two left and would finally get our wish. We had pitted for each other during all the other matches but now would have to get others to help pit.
This was not much of a problem as we always started our own engines at that time..... Just needed someone to launch and do other little things.. We had always said that if we ever met at the Nationals it would be decided in the air, not on the ground. Besides, what could go wrong, we are pros!! LOL I was afraid I was at a disadvantage as the Voodoo was a stock kit that was too heavy and way nose heavy, but it had served me well the rest of finals day.. Remember I had my best planes stolen the night before finals day and I hadn't planned to have to use it... Everything goes normal as we go into the circle and get ready for the final flight.. Carl and I go through the regular routine ( you know; lets have a good match, may the best man win, yatta, yatta) You have all been there no matter which event you are flying....... We get ready to start, I get a bump, the starting signal is given and Carl yells I have a blown plug. No problem we will wait on you.. However there was a problem, I forgot to disconnect my battery while Carl replaced his plug.. He got a bump and said let's go and immediately started.. Second problem, while waiting still hooked up my plug was gone. While I changed my plug everyone was yelling at Carl to go up but he would not and said we were going up together which we did. We had one of those great, clean, long matches before I finally killed him giving me first place.. It was a sweet but bitter victory as Carl has always been one of my best friends, both in person and in modeling. The sad thing is we never got to repeat this once in a lifetime event..... I guess that is why it is once in a lifetime!!!

Thanks Riley, ..... a great story
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #149 on:** February 09, 2016, 07:19:18 PM »

It has taken a while to get back into story of combat in the 50's, 60's but I think I am back where I can continue the story starting with 1963....
63 was a good year for me in business as we got Flite Line rolling making kits and the starting of Lone Star Balsa.. In competition combat it was not a good year for me.. The popular designs were the Voodoo by a large margin, and many stabilator clones of the type. I had released my Flite Line Sneeker and Demon kits. A lot of new designs were showing up, some good, some bad, with most of the good using similar numbers.. It seems with all the designs showing up in this period combat competition was good and exciting. We will talk about the 63 Nats in Southern California in next post. I didn't good any good but my friends did.............
RW