Author Topic: 50's-60's combat history (Read 42658 times)

riley wooten · « **Reply #50 on:** October 15, 2015, 02:28:11 PM »

The time frame gets a little fuzzy but I think it was either fall of 56 or spring of 57. We had a contest in Lubbock with it's usual large turnout of good combat fliers. Most were flying Quickers but one guy I did not know was flying a Halfast. He did not do well and some time in the mid afternoon he came up to me and said " I am Carl Berryman and I have to have plans to that airplane". Needless to say at 6'8" Carl is an imposing figure.. I explained that at this point no plans exist... He said I have to have something so I can build Quickers if I am going to fly combat....Basically, in a nice way he said I am not leaving Lubbock without them. My response was "follow me to my house after the contest and I will get you what is necessary to build them"... He and his wife and 2 young kids followed me home.. Our wives got along great and as they fixed something to eat I sketched a set of working plans as we talked models and combat....
It felt like I had known him forever and I remember thinking "what a neat guy"... Our personalities matched just right and we became great friends. I told him a lot about my thoughts on combat, important do's and don'ts, where he lives and let's get together and fly and so on.. Turns out he had just moved to Amarillo so any contest in the direction of Lubbock or beyond he would come down and go with me... Over the next few months we went to either 7 or 8 contest in the area together and wound up flying for first in every one.... As I said earlier I did not go to the Philly nats in 57 but Carl and I started making plans for Glenview (Chicago) in 58.........
RW

PS: Another great guy by the name of Marvin Denny also lived In Amarillo at the time and always flew with us......

john e. holliday · « **Reply #51 on:** October 15, 2015, 06:38:59 PM »

And I tried to fly combat at one time or another with each of them. Riley was the first. All three of you were gentlemen to this farm kid.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #52 on:** October 15, 2015, 06:54:20 PM »

Riley, I've just copied all this of so I have it permanently, I hope that meets with your approval, this is GREAT stuff!

riley wooten · « **Reply #53 on:** October 15, 2015, 07:25:35 PM »

Quote from: Randy Ryan on October 15, 2015, 06:54:20 PM

Riley, I've just copied all this of so I have it permanently, I hope that meets with your approval, this is GREAT stuff!

Randy, I have no problem with anyone coping any or all if they so desire... Any feedback is also welcome.....
RW

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #54 on:** October 16, 2015, 05:20:59 AM »

Quote from: riley wooten on October 15, 2015, 07:25:35 PM

Randy, I have no problem with anyone coping any or all if they so desire... Any feedback is also welcome.....
RW

Thanks, I am really enjoying your narratives. Not a combat flyer myself but always interested and this is fascinating.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #55 on:** October 16, 2015, 07:32:36 AM »

This narrative is great because we all remember the fun and just want a taste of it again. I predict the interest in Vintage Combat is on the verge of something big; simply because the aircraft were so simple to build, store, and of course- a blast to fly.

We had an awesome time at the recent GSCB Vintage Combat Festival. No trophies, no blood- just fun, laughs, and camaraderie.

When Riley completes his narrative, maybe Scarinzi will do one, too. One big problem- Larry doesn't use a computer and to take notes from his recollections( he's very sharp and recalls everything) first hand, feed 'em to us all here... well, that would take some serious time because Larry is silly and easily sidetracked; be it in person or on the phone.

Then again, those of us who know him best wouldn't have him any other way.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #56 on:** October 16, 2015, 07:53:34 AM »

Riley,
Thank you for doing this. This is very nice to read, and it's great that you keep updating these stories. It's wonderful for us guys who weren't around yet during this time frame!

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #57 on:** October 16, 2015, 12:37:44 PM »

I can't stand it!!!!!! I'm ordering some Quicker plans from Barry Baxter and gonna break in my brand NOS CS!!!!

riley wooten · « **Reply #58 on:** October 16, 2015, 01:36:37 PM »

As I look back 58 turned out to be a very different year. All the guys from the 56 nats were gone.. Harry Furman still owned the LHS but was going through a divorce.. His son Greg had discovered girls and cars. Bruce Brown was now flying choppers in the army and Don had moved to Albuquerque.... However, two new beginners, Wayne Welch and Don King were very interested in combat so I had two new flying buddies, though they did not think they wanted to go to contest yet... We did fly a lot and had all night building sessions at my house. During one of these sessions Wayne built what I will call a sidewinder Quicker..
Same wing, tail and moments but with a profile fuse... I wanted to get away from the profile which led to the Voodoo style motor mount and the "Custom Quicker"..... Twin booms with same stab/elevator and moments.... I think only 2 or 3 were built and one was expoded wind flying in 50 mph winds (another story)...

But wait, I am getting ahead of myself, the 58 Nats and our trip to Chicago... I pick up Carl in Amarillo and we head out on the later famous "Route 66" to Glenview NAS... For once we have several Quickers and a couple of stunt planes... As I remember we drove straight through, with a few breaks for fuel and food.. I remember a lot of small towns and seems it took forever to get there, but gave us a lot of time to visit and talk airplanes and try to stay alert........
Checking in, getting bunk assignments and setting up in the hanger and we are through.. Tomorrow we can do what we came for; fly and practice.... We can also see what others are flying, make new friends and greet old ones... We were young and this is exciting!!!!!!!!!
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #59 on:** October 16, 2015, 07:12:30 PM »

Just to be clear, Carl and I were flying stock Quickers at the 58 nats... The variants came after the nats, were kept close and not shared because we did not want to cause problems with kit sales and California Models....
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #60 on:** October 17, 2015, 10:30:24 PM »

1958 will be Carl's first Nationals and my second... I am getting a few stunt practice flights in every day and we are checking out the combat equipment..... We were using pen bladder tanks in plastic bottles strapped behind the engine to feed our Johnson 35s.... To my knowledge we were the only ones using bladders..
Our Quickers were running 105 - 106 mph without streamers, about 100 pulling a full one.... Most everyone else 85 to 95 at best.... About this time Carl coined the phrase "If it's quicker than a QUICKER it's a quicker QUICKER".... I will probably catch hell for this and regret saying it but I dubbed this the year of the lead sled.. It seems most of the planes, especially from the east were nylon covered, tough tanks... The T Square and Halfast type wings were popular......

The night before combat started the first round matching was posted so everyone would know their flight times... I think there were 158 open fliers listed..
Carl was flying good and he dispatched his first couple opponents easily....... I don't know what happened to him, when or how he lost.. It was probably some kind of bad luck as he was flying very well; I just do not remember....... My first match is one I remember well and was just one of those things that happen once in a lifetime.. For some reason this flight must have been hyped the night before; I don't know.......As we were getting ready to go I looked up and the circle had spectators almost all the way around it, 2 to 3 deep in some parts... I was shocked and did not know what to think.. We hit the air and the match started. I attacked the other plane, fell in right at the end of the streamer and with quite a bit of extra speed ran right up the streamer and cut off the knot
The thing I have never done or seen since is the plane went up the streamer taking 1" cuts all the way leaving the air full of little pieces of streamer...........
It was quite a sight, the people were clapping and yelling and I thought "what a way to start a Nats"
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #61 on:** October 18, 2015, 04:15:50 PM »

After this start things were pretty calm..... The one problem we had was the limit of our engine run. The only container we could find to hold the bladder only allowed an engine fun of about 2-1/2 min. For this reason we needed to start our engine with less than 30 seconds left in starting time. This way only one pit would allow us to complete the 5 min flight. This is usually not important since most flights with both planes in the air last less than 2 minutes; you just want the opponent in the air......... The problems could begin when this was not the case.. Carl and I both made the finals day and I was in the semi finals... I drew a T Square flown by William Arrowsmith (at least I think that was his name but do not know for sure) He won that year but I never heard anything about him since.. It was nylon covered with 1/2" sq. nylon motor mounts... To each his own, but in my opinion it was not a very good performing plane, but I lost..........
I know I was up one or two cuts to none.. There was so much difference in speed and the Square slowed so bad it was hard to judge closing speed.. To make a long story short I hit him and broke my inboard wing and could not go back up. I don't remember the exact rules in use that year but when he could go back up he won..... I could fly for 3rd but since I needed to be at the stunt circle I did not fly, so I finished 4th..............

I screwed up combat so off to stunt; a couple of practice flights and see if I can qualify for the stunt finals.........
RW

EddyR · « **Reply #62 on:** October 19, 2015, 06:40:40 AM »

Riley, I new Arrowsmith and flew against him many times in stunt and combat. He was a very good stunt pilot but I do not remember him as a very good combat guy. I met him at contest all over NYS and Penn in the 1950's and 60's. I lived not far from the home of the T-Square and at contest my two friends and I would have six combat model total but there would be 30 T-Square and they would win by attrition. When the quicker came out in the magazine I was flying them a week later and started to win against all the flying wings. We turned the motor on it's side within a few months.
Ed

riley wooten · « **Reply #63 on:** October 19, 2015, 08:18:24 PM »

Quote from: EddyR on October 19, 2015, 06:40:40 AM

Riley, I new Arrowsmith and flew against him many times in stunt and combat. He was a very good stunt pilot but I do not remember him as a very good combat guy. I met him at contest all over NYS and Penn in the 1950's and 60's. I lived not far from the home of the T-Square and at contest my two friends and I would have six combat model total but there would be 30 T-Square and they would win by attrition. When the quicker came out in the magazine I was flying them a week later and started to win against all the flying wings. We turned the motor on it's side within a few months.
Ed

Ed, what you are saying pretty well agrees with my thoughts.. The knock em down and hope you survive is not my idea of combat.. I think that Nats led to the rule change and the collision zone the next year (1959) If you remember that involved about a 3' string and a collision card then another 3' string and the kill card. If you cut the string between the plane and collision card or hit the other plane you lost.. I may have the year wrong or it was a one year rule because I don't think that was the rule in 1960.. All these rules and years run together but they changed often...........
RW

john e. holliday · « **Reply #64 on:** October 19, 2015, 10:00:40 PM »

The year I got a second in combat at Wichita KS contest in 64we had three guys from Topeka that flew combat that way if they got up first. First round the first guy drilled my Big Iron which was fiber glassed center section. Killed his engine and he could get it restarted. The Big Iron just kind of slowed a little then sped back up. The second guy second round tried the same thing with same results. Amazing how well a fiber glass job will take punishment. The third guy I asked him if he was going to fly like his team mates. No answer, so I drilled him. Didn't know there could be that many pieces of a combat plane. Needless to say the Big Iron was done and I pulled another plane out. Was going for first with a guy from Oklahoma. We both got up with the sorriest runs a guy could ever get. He asked me if I wanted to land and try again. I told him if I land that Fox it would never restart(experience with this engine and never could figure out why). So somehow we started the match with loops and other stuff, after about 3 or4 minutes my streamer disappeared and I started congratulate him when he said how did that happen. Anyway the word had finally gotten around about those guys and they quit flying.

riley wooten · « **Reply #65 on:** October 20, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »

We pick up at 58 Nats and I am headed to the stunt circles to try to qualify for finals top 20.. I know this is about combat history but bear with me as we talk about the stunt squabble at the 58 Nats... Most do not recognize me as a has been stunt flyer but I did finish 6th or higher in all the Nats I flew stunt in...... I did get in one flight and was lucky enough to qualify for the finals with the highest score.....

On finals day I flew my best flight in the middle of the afternoon.. I put in a very good flight and was leading by a big margin. With one hour to go I was still
holding that margin and thought I had it won. As I remember all the top fliers had already flown so I was feeling good about the outcome.... Then, boom, the scores ballooned the last hour and the last guys all scored way high... There was a protest mounted and a demand that the finals be flown over.. The stunt guys were all up in arms.. It was a big mess with a lot of hard feelings.... Not being one of the regulars I was not involved, but I have always thought I was robbed; and it soured me on flying stunt at the Nats... Besides stunt and combat finals were always on the same day back then so it was hard to do both and do them justice..

Enough of the soap box, but some time a guy just has to vent!!!
RW

Andre Ming · « **Reply #66 on:** October 20, 2015, 05:41:01 PM »

Very much enjoying this thread, Riley. Thank you so much for taking the time and sizable effort to do it!

As for your experience at Stunt at the '58 Nats:

ANY event, not just C/L Stunt, that relies on judges to determine a good performance has the "subjective quotient" that must be factored-in. I've only been involved in a few events (non C/L) that relied upon subjective judging to determine the best. Even though I placed 1st or 2nd more often than not placing, I grew a bit dissatisfied with events that rely on subjective judging.

That's the cool thing about C/L combat, motorcycle racing, etc: When the flag drops the BS stops.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #67 on:** October 20, 2015, 07:23:37 PM »

What turned me off on combat was when in 70 the AMA made the ruling we could not start our own engines.

riley wooten · « **Reply #68 on:** October 22, 2015, 02:59:13 PM »

I would like to get into the late 58 - 59 time period when a lot was happening and changes were taking place. I would like to get with Carl Berryman to make sure we are on the same page on some topics and time frame.. Trouble is, I can't seem to reach him with the contact info I have so it must be out of date....
Can anyone help??
RW

Howard Rush · « **Reply #69 on:** October 22, 2015, 04:13:16 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on October 20, 2015, 07:23:37 PM

What turned me off on combat was when in 70 the AMA made the ruling we could not start our own engines.

You haven't read the rules since 1970?

RogerGreene · « **Reply #70 on:** October 23, 2015, 08:20:12 PM »

Riley, when I was in the Air force in 1966 and stationed in Altus, OK. I met Carl there, He was the owner of Texaco Station. I did a google search on Carl Berryman and there is a Carl Berryman living in Altus, OK. If he is 85 years old now it just could be him.

Roger Greene

Will Hinton · « **Reply #71 on:** October 24, 2015, 01:53:10 PM »

Riley, first of all, this post is probably my all time favorite of my years on stunthanger! Thank you for this, I'm eating it up.
Next, you haven't mentioned the Whatzit at all. I had Duane Kassa almost force me to go the Whatzit in the summer of '59 at Navy Memphis using a Torp greenhead he prepped for me and it was a killer. I stopped flying after that season until I left the Navy in '62, so failed to follow combat until around 64 after I married. By then the good old Whatzit was history in the circles.
Thanks again for these articles, once Randy Ryan gets them all organized I'm going to beg the finnal draft from him. (Or drool all over his computer keyboard.)

riley wooten · « **Reply #72 on:** October 24, 2015, 03:43:23 PM »

The Whatzit will come up soon in 59 Nats

riley wooten · « **Reply #73 on:** October 24, 2015, 08:29:39 PM »

Will, since you brought it up I might as well tell the Whatzit story... Bill Winter the long time editor of Model Airplane News called and wanted a combat design to publish.. He wanted something different but simple and wanted it asap so I took a Quicker and mounted the tail above the wing.. With that tail do you call it a flying wing or not; thus the Whatzit name. One was quickly built and tested and it flew quite well. It was published but I have no idea of the month or year...
The diamond airfoil came into being for the same basic reason (for mag article and simple, straight forward building which was good for newbies) That said Howard Henry won 2nd in open combat at the 63 Nats flying a DEMON (diamond airfoil)..

Cleveland Models later wanted to and did kit the Whatzit. The kit quality was not very good but sold pretty well... They paid me $50.00 up front and still owe
me for the balance of the contract... I'm sure the check is in the mail!!!

One of my favorite designs built about this time was a tapered wing, extended tail flying wing. Only one was ever built but my memory of it is that it was one of the best planes I ever flew. There was an after hours unofficial combat contest flown in 59. I did not fly but loaned it to a friend and he won with it.. I must have given it to him after he won with it as I do not remember it since......
RW

Bob Mears · « **Reply #74 on:** October 25, 2015, 10:34:11 AM »

Hey Riles, throw in, to the best of your recollection, what kinds of airplanes you saw in the pits on these events. The best to the worst. How many years did the Ringmaster or Flite Streak make it to competitions? Did you see suction tanks still competing with pressure tanks or even bladders? I know your were always on the latest technologies at the time, but what was everybody else doing at the time?

riley wooten · « **Reply #75 on:** October 25, 2015, 07:42:30 PM »

OK, you are testing my memory now.........
1956 - The better planes; Quicker, Sweet Sweep, Omega and Halfast; the rest, a variety of profiles such as RM, Clown and home brews. I remember the best a whole lot better than the worst. As far as I know we were all running draw fuel systems that year......
1957 - Could not afford to go to Nats so don't know.. Someone might fill us in on this??
1958 - Carl and my Quickers on pen bladder the best.. T Square probably no worse than the same old variety of profiles and stronger, but not what I would call a good plane.. Still several Halfast.. I think most were now on case pressure... Sure I am missing some good planes and if so remind me..............
1959 - That year I think I flew a Quicker, a stabilator plane, a diamond airfoil and a Whatzit but not sure. At that time a Calif. Nats was almost all Calif entries, at least in combat.. John Barr had his Renagade and the Hi Johnson gang had E-Gads.. Don't remember the rest except (and I will probably regret
saying this) the competition was not very good.. Most everyone on pressure from now on.....
1960 - Most all now stabilator or similar type planes on case pressure or bladders.. Of course there are always those who want to be different and we should be glad that someone always thinks there is a better mouse trap.........
1961 - Did not go to Nats but do not think anything much changed!!!!!!
1962 - From now through most of the 60's it was a lot of Voodoos, plus Big Irons and Nemisis type on bladder tanks that we saw.. Also their clones and similar designs always showed up. Then in 65 we had the Vampire (first foamie) and a few other foam planes show up by the late 60's.
RW

Mike Keville · « **Reply #76 on:** October 25, 2015, 08:57:30 PM »

Man, those were the days, weren't they? 100-plus entrants in CL Combat, with a variety of designs. Today we're lucky to see more than a half-dozen Combat fliers show-up at the (watered-down) Nats....all flying those FAI-like thingies.

<sigh> I miss the Old Days.

Larry Borden · « **Reply #77 on:** October 26, 2015, 06:36:37 AM »

At the Glenview Nats in 71 or 72, there were 150 in Open combat. The director was none other than Murray Franks.

Randy Snow · « **Reply #78 on:** October 26, 2015, 09:25:30 AM »

All of this combat talk is great--- going back and remembering-- so cool. Wooten, I had placed a $100. balsa order with your " Lone Star Balsa" two months later was told " Lone Star" was no more. I wrote a letter to your " Lone Star" --- never got a response---- I know this is " Old History" about your " Lone Star" but I never got a response nor refund nor the balsa. And I'm sure you don't care. At the time when " Lone Star" became no more---I wonder how many others had placed orders with your " Lone Star" and got nothing--------ya just kept the money and made no effort to make good on anything concerning those who had trusted " Lone Star" and Wooten.

De Hill · « **Reply #79 on:** October 26, 2015, 09:42:02 AM »

Why didn't you send Riley a private message? He wasn't running Lone Star balsa when you placed your order.

I seriously doubt he ever heard of your problem.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #80 on:** October 26, 2015, 11:46:13 AM »

Quote from: Larry Borden on October 26, 2015, 06:36:37 AM

At the Glenview Nats in 71 or 72, there were 150 in Open combat. The director was none other than Murray Franks.

72 had over 100 in Open. It was a long, long day. Wet weather. My first match with Gary Frost( of St. Louis ?). We went quite a ways, but no cigar. Murray Franks- an awesome Texan with roots in the NY metro area.

We all loved that guy .

riley wooten · « **Reply #81 on:** October 26, 2015, 01:49:14 PM »

Quote from: Randy Snow on October 26, 2015, 09:25:30 AM

All of this combat talk is great--- going back and remembering-- so cool. Wooten, I had placed a $100. balsa order with your " Lone Star Balsa" two months later was told " Lone Star" was no more. I wrote a letter to your " Lone Star" --- never got a response---- I know this is " Old History" about your " Lone Star" but I never got a response nor refund nor the balsa. And I'm sure you don't care. At the time when " Lone Star" became no more---I wonder how many others had placed orders with your " Lone Star" and got nothing--------ya just kept the money and made no effort to make good on anything concerning those who had trusted " Lone Star" and Wooten.
[/qu

Randy, give me some dates!!!! AND FACTS !!! I was out of LS mostly after 2002........ Was completely out after fire in Nov. 2007... My policy was to never cash a customer check or charge his card until his order was shipped... So how about some more information before you start talking trash!!!!!!!
RW

Bill Morell · « **Reply #82 on:** October 26, 2015, 01:52:58 PM »

Quote from: Randy Snow on October 26, 2015, 09:25:30 AM

All of this combat talk is great--- going back and remembering-- so cool. Wooten, I had placed a $100. balsa order with your " Lone Star Balsa" two months later was told " Lone Star" was no more. I wrote a letter to your " Lone Star" --- never got a response---- I know this is " Old History" about your " Lone Star" but I never got a response nor refund nor the balsa. And I'm sure you don't care. At the time when " Lone Star" became no more---I wonder how many others had placed orders with your " Lone Star" and got nothing--------ya just kept the money and made no effort to make good on anything concerning those who had trusted " Lone Star" and Wooten.

Hell of a way to try to ruin a wonderful thread. Thanks a lot jerk!

Bob Mears · « **Reply #83 on:** October 26, 2015, 01:54:18 PM »

My first Nats was in 68 in Kansas. That was Rileys last Nats he won with the Vampire. I didnt get to enter because of some BS about stopping entries a 5 pm and they shut the door on several entrants standing in line. So I spent the week just screwing around at the NATS and taking it all in. It's to this day one of my favorite NATS and I didnt even get to fly. We stayed in a hanger on cots. And I was in awe at all the airplane in the hangers. Rows and Rows of folks working on their airplanes. I checked out every event there. I had Blast! I was 13 years old and was just kinda cut loose for a week. I recall all they had to drink at that NATS was Pepsi or beer. After about 4 days of Pepsi Pop let me have a few beers. I dint like beer that much, but couldnt take another Pepsi! One night Me and Pop and Riley went to the officers club for supper. At about 10 or so they bring out this cutie and she started stripping. FREAKING WOW...this was gonna be great! Then they told me I had to leave. So Pop and Riley told me to have a nice night and they would see me in the morning....downer. Probably not as big a downer as Pop had wen I told mom about it when we got home.....my bad.......From then on I realized when Mom as what I did at the Nats for a week, I DIDNT HAVE to tell everything. So what happened at the Nats, stayed at the Nats from then on. I wouldt take for all the NATS trips me and Riley and Pop went to. They will always be some of my fondest memories.

Dan Berry · « **Reply #84 on:** October 26, 2015, 05:03:40 PM »

Quote from: Randy Snow on October 26, 2015, 09:25:30 AM

All of this combat talk is great--- going back and remembering-- so cool. Wooten, I had placed a $100. balsa order with your " Lone Star Balsa" two months later was told " Lone Star" was no more. I wrote a letter to your " Lone Star" --- never got a response---- I know this is " Old History" about your " Lone Star" but I never got a response nor refund nor the balsa. And I'm sure you don't care. At the time when " Lone Star" became no more---I wonder how many others had placed orders with your " Lone Star" and got nothing--------ya just kept the money and made no effort to make good on anything concerning those who had trusted " Lone Star" and Wooten.

Take it up privately, please.

Larry Borden · « **Reply #85 on:** October 26, 2015, 05:11:13 PM »

Quote from: Randy Snow on October 26, 2015, 09:25:30 AM

All of this combat talk is great--- going back and remembering-- so cool. Wooten, I had placed a $100. balsa order with your " Lone Star Balsa" two months later was told " Lone Star" was no more. I wrote a letter to your " Lone Star" --- never got a response---- I know this is " Old History" about your " Lone Star" but I never got a response nor refund nor the balsa. And I'm sure you don't care. At the time when " Lone Star" became no more---I wonder how many others had placed orders with your " Lone Star" and got nothing--------ya just kept the money and made no effort to make good on anything concerning those who had trusted " Lone Star" and Wooten.

You need to take this up privately. Do you have a cancelled check or a credit card receipt?
Nice way to ruin a good thread.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #86 on:** October 26, 2015, 05:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Will Hinton on October 24, 2015, 01:53:10 PM

Riley, first of all, this post is probably my all time favorite of my years on stunthanger! Thank you for this, I'm eating it up.
Next, you haven't mentioned the Whatzit at all. I had Duane Kassa almost force me to go the Whatzit in the summer of '59 at Navy Memphis using a Torp greenhead he prepped for me and it was a killer. I stopped flying after that season until I left the Navy in '62, so failed to follow combat until around 64 after I married. By then the good old Whatzit was history in the circles.
Thanks again for these articles, once Randy Ryan gets them all organized I'm going to beg the finnal draft from him. (Or drool all over his computer keyboard.)

I'll make it available Will. I'm with you, GREAT THREAD!!!!! We're currently at 9 1/2 pages with all the comments and questions edited out. When I go back through I'll put any relevant ones back in to make it flow if need be but right just Riley's words.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #87 on:** October 27, 2015, 01:52:11 PM »

Thanks brother Randy, you da man. (Right after Riley.)

Bob Mears · « **Reply #88 on:** October 27, 2015, 02:06:17 PM »

Quote from: Randy Ryan on October 26, 2015, 05:50:29 PM

I'll make it available Will. I'm with you, GREAT THREAD!!!!! We're currently at 9 1/2 pages with all the comments and questions edited out. When I go back through I'll put any relevant ones back in to make it flow if need be but right just Riley's words.

I would like a copy of that too Randy. I'll frame it up and put it in the combat museum!

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #89 on:** October 27, 2015, 03:26:34 PM »

I have a word document opened and copy each addition also

My thoughts too Bob, but I think I will set it as a time line with significant information so I can bold face certain areas and frame for my hanger / shop

Would love a similar recounting by Berryman, Scarinzi..and several others like Howard Rush, Dick Mathis, etc Too bad Marvin Denny has past, I never did pester him about his planes, just the engines

Mr. Wooten sir

You have no idea what this means to me and the funny thing is my son, listening to me re-tell some of your story as I relate it to my youth, is similarly interested in the history of "dad's hobby"...so sir you are impacting a few generations with this well told memory lane recounting

riley wooten · « **Reply #90 on:** October 29, 2015, 11:23:42 AM »

Well, after trying to get in touch with Carl Berryman, leaving voice mail messages as well as message to his daughter and no response I hope he and Barb are ok......I will just go on with the time line as I know it. We left the 58 nats Sat. afternoon, drove all night so we could fly in Amarillo contest the next day.... Carl won combat, and I flew stunt only so I could make the 120 miles to Lubbock, a good nights sleep and work Monday....

Shortly after, Carl moved to Altus, Ok. so we were not in touch as often, although he still came to all the area contest.... Also about this time we had a bunch of new guys start flying or move to Lubbock.... Don and Pete Jaden, James Mears and sons Bob and Andy, Steve Hills, Howard Henry, Bentley Page and about a dozen more.. I apologize for not remembering everyone and all the names.. As I said before; Wayne, Don and I were still having building sessions at my house. New modifications daily but the basis was always the Quicker, Voodoo wing with different airfoils, tips, side mount, profiles and etc. I had built my custom Quicker, which was basically a Sniper (Voodoo) with Quicker stab/elevator.....

Carl came to visit and showed me his latest.. It was, as I remember a Quicker type wing plan form and airfoil but using the Big Iron style construction.......
The really new thing, however was the stabilator and I think Carl was the first to try it... I flew it and actually did not like it as well as a stab/elevator set up....
BUT it was much simpler and easier to build and I was convinced it was the way to go, AND THE REST IS HISTORY!!!!
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #91 on:** October 30, 2015, 09:52:42 AM »

1959 turned out to be an unusual but busy year. With all the new guys a lot of flying and weekend competition taking place improved everyone. The first chance for them to enter a contest came at Abilene, Tx. I don't remember much about this contest except they all really had a good time and were hooked. It was windy, the T Squares would not make it upwind and the cd allowed combat to be flown either clockwise or counter clockwise. First and only time and the rules say counter clockwise but seems some locals flew the other way. I flew one of them, eliminating him and flew most of the match inverted.....

Since this history is a lot of my experiences I will go to a side note that side tracked me a little.. Seems Don and Wayne(sidekicks) bought a go kart. I went with them to race it. They did not do well and asked me to help with the engine. We took the engine apart, did a little port work and the next race ran second in all the races.. A little ol guy (all of 45-50) won every race easily. Trying to be friendly I ask what he had done to the engine to be so much faster than everyone.. He informed me in no uncertain terms that he was a boat mechanic and knew more about 2 strokes than anyone and I would not even know what he was talking about.... Being the competitive person I was, my thought at that point is I have got to beat this guy.... You guessed it; buy a kart, rebuild the engine as much as rules would allow turning the 5.8 cu. in. engine that was designed for about 5,000 rpm into a 12,000 rpm machine.. In those days everyone was running gas so I modified carb to run alcohol base fuel (legal)...... To make a long story short, the first time we raced I blew him off the track; he protested my engine and I asked who got to look inside. The marshal said "only me, why" and I told him in front of the guy "since he knows more about 2 cycles than anyone I don't want him to see what I have done". He did not get to see, my engine was legal, and I got his protest money... After that everything was anticlimactic but now everyone wanted me to rebuild their engines and carbs...... The money was good but took all my time. My shop was now filled with engines and carbs and I was burning out fast.... By the way the kart never lost a race..... I sold it to a friend and he was winning with it 2 years later......

Back to models and the 59 nats !!
RW

Will Hinton · « **Reply #92 on:** October 30, 2015, 10:13:45 AM »

This last post just might well be the best of the whole thread!!!! I LOVE it! Way to go, Riley.

riley wooten · « **Reply #93 on:** October 30, 2015, 03:05:56 PM »

As you can see I was quite distracted in 59 and raced most weekends so did not go to many contest... Also combat plane development suffered for lack of time doing kart stuff.. I might mention that kart racing was not my first venture into racing.. While in high school I bought a 36 Ford coupe for $15.00 and turned it into a modified stocker which I raced. Also had a one season fling with midgets about 53....I might add that the guy that protested my kart engine never raced me again. If I was at a race and he showed up; saw I was racing he loaded up and left......I loved it !!!! BUT MODELS ARE STILL THE MOST FUN !!!!!

I don't remember much about the 59 nats... I keep getting them and 63 mixed up.. As best as I recall I had a Quicker, a Quicker wing with different tips, side mount engine and stabilator (Voodoo type), a Whatzit, and a new tapered wing, extended tail flying wing... I also think I had a diamond airfoil stabilator design.
The planes I remember were the Renegade, Hj Johnsons Blurr and the DeBolt Combater(sp).. The DeBolt was kit prototype stabilator job and did not fly. I thought it was a poor design. Stab was very weak, airfoil too thin with high point way too far back and inboard wing offset a lot... West coast guys are not going to like this but both the planes and flying were not up to par with the rest of the country at that time... The only flight I really remember was against John Barr and his Renegade(later Veco kit) and it did not last long... I flew both a Quicker and Whatzit to promote kit sales and say they were Nationals winners........

In stunt I flew very early and turns out in very dead air.. Wind gets up around 10 to 11am there so you need to fly before then... My next flight was after combat in the afternoon wind and I think I finished in my usual 6th place, maybe 5th.. That was also the first year I noticed the real serious guys were dressing to match their planes color scheme to impress the Navy judges.. I decided it was a PR contest, not a flying contest and that was the last time I flew stunt at the Nats.... Thankfully, I do not think it is that way now..... AND THE EVENT IS MUCH BETTER !!!

Later that year I got a call telling me to be in Dallas next Saturday for stunt team trials to be on the first FAI team... With almost no practice I drove to Dallas
by myself to compete.. I came in 2nd just a couple of points behind Don Still... Congratulated Don and headed home thinking it was all over...... Not long after I get another call saying I need to be in St Louis next weekend for TT finals.. I had no time off and didn't think I could afford to go if I made team I did not go.
Not going is my one regret.... I think Don was our number one scorer and I beat him about as often as he beat me... I was in middle management at GE at the time and as I look back I probably could have gotten them to sponsor at least part of my expenses.............
RW

Mel Gray · « **Reply #94 on:** October 30, 2015, 07:57:11 PM »

Here's a picture from, I believe, the Nov 59 issue of American Modeler (JPG format, hope it displays correctly). The NATS report article. Some cool cat looking for another canary to swallow. Neat airplane.

Mel Gray

riley wooten · « **Reply #95 on:** October 30, 2015, 08:22:44 PM »

Quote from: ama63434 on October 30, 2015, 07:57:11 PM

Here's a picture from, I believe, the Nov 59 issue of American Modeler (JPG format, hope it displays correctly). The NATS report article. Some cool cat looking for another canary to swallow. Neat airplane.

Mel Gray

Tanks Mel for posting that. I thought that 59 Whatzit had a side mount but was not sure.... I have never been good at taking or keeping photos and etc.....
RW

Howard Rush · « **Reply #96 on:** October 31, 2015, 01:32:36 AM »

James Mears, I think, told a story about the 1959 Nats trip being financed by games of pool along the way. Would you like to elaborate?

riley wooten · « **Reply #97 on:** October 31, 2015, 08:02:26 AM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on October 31, 2015, 01:32:36 AM

James Mears, I think, told a story about the 1959 Nats trip being financed by games of pool along the way. Would you like to elaborate?

No comment !! You knew James and his stories so let's leave it at that..... We did have a lot of good times on some of those trips...

Andre Ming · « **Reply #98 on:** October 31, 2015, 09:11:33 AM »

Quote from: riley wooten on October 31, 2015, 08:02:26 AM

No comment !! You knew James and his stories so let's leave it at that..... We did have a lot of good times on some of those trips...

LOL!

Sounds like James Mears would have been a blast to know and be around! A masterful story-teller can take a somewhat "less than spectacular" event and turn it into a highly entertaining and memorable tale of wonder and intrigue... making one wish they had been there to live it and enjoy it firsthand. So too, was the ability of my old friend Bill James. I still recall many of Bill's combat stories.

Although we're dealing with historical accuracy in Riley's ongoing account of the way things were as he lived it... this thread, too... contains that magical ability to make one wish they had been able to be there alongside, live it, and experience it firsthand. That's what good history telling does.

Onward Mr. Wooten!

Tom_Fluker · « **Reply #99 on:** October 31, 2015, 09:40:54 AM »

Quote from: Andre Ming on October 31, 2015, 09:11:33 AM

LOL!

Sounds like James Mears would have been a blast to know and be around!

Andre

Being around James was more of a blast than anyone could ever explain! While not from Lubbock, I had "grew up" with the stories. No way they could be true. Fortunately, I have had a couple verified from the "other side". Bigger than life stuff when you think about it, but just normal stuff for me. Who knew I was around celebrities?

I remember being at a Nats one year where I had a rematch (got lucky since I couldn't figure out how to handle a specific set of turns). I remember asking Riley for help. Walked through the scenario I was having trouble with and got an answer. Again - just normal stuff. Ask a guy that knows and get good advice. Still lost the match, but it wasn't because of the advice. Fixed one problem just to find another :-(

I considered going to college in Lubbock. Doubt I would have graduated, but I do know that Riley, James, Bobby and Andy would have made a combat flyer out of me!