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Author Topic: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas  (Read 23349 times)

Online Andre Ming

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #150 on: October 11, 2015, 01:55:07 PM »
We wait with bated breath!!
Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #151 on: October 11, 2015, 02:01:44 PM »
And her you are!!  Congrats to our team!!
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #152 on: October 11, 2015, 02:02:35 PM »
...
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Offline Monty Summach

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #153 on: October 11, 2015, 02:08:08 PM »
Congratulations to all.
Thanks Dave for the effort you put into getting the news out.
Regards,

Online Andre Ming

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #154 on: October 11, 2015, 02:10:39 PM »
Congratulations to our 2015 FAI World Team!

* Paul Walker
* Orestes Hernandez
* David Fitzgerald

Now hoping you three can go beat the world!

Also, very proud that one of our own Tulsa Gluedobbers made it all the way to the final rounds!  Way to go Joe Gilbert!

Thanks Dave for your "above and beyond" coverage.  Like I said: Almost as good as being there!

Andre
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #155 on: October 11, 2015, 02:26:10 PM »
Thank you Dave. Very kind of you to keep us informed. Congrats to all.
Jim Kraft

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #156 on: October 11, 2015, 02:49:36 PM »
Should be a great team. Great job, guys.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #157 on: October 11, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
It looks like everyone put in a performance to be proud of.

Paul flies volts and David flies slime -- Orestes fies slime?
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2015, 03:42:15 PM »
All repeaters Good team.

I was pulling for Richard... 5th is very commendable.

Great showing by Texas.. Next time we will have a team member.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2015, 03:48:39 PM »
Thanks for all the photos and reports.   Tough luck on your part with the plane as I know you have been trying hard.  Well maybe a better plane and a decent judge will get you there in the finals and a berth.  Just stay with it.  Congrats to all that participated and especially to the new team.   
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #160 on: October 11, 2015, 03:58:02 PM »
It looks like everyone put in a performance to be proud of.

Paul flies volts and David flies slime -- Orestes fies slime?

Pretty sure Orestes flies with electronic slime. Howard spoke about him using the Chinese CF Quadrotor props early on...'13 or '14.   y1 Steve
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Offline pmackenzie

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #161 on: October 11, 2015, 04:05:10 PM »
Strong team :)
Congratulations.

See you guys in Perth

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Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #162 on: October 11, 2015, 05:34:43 PM »
What is this new gadget Frank Williams has aimed at Orestes airplane?  In flight battery charger?  Ray gun?

No. A USB Mini Cam.
Later,
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #163 on: October 11, 2015, 06:25:25 PM »
Wel, certainly no surprises in the places but I can't imagine sending a stronger team!

Congrats to Chris Rud as alternate, and to everyone who flew.

Thanks very much for the 1st class reporting Dave!  Certainly all those guys in the top 10 are great competitors.

Randy Cuberly



« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 07:18:20 PM by Randy Cuberly »
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Offline David Russum

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #164 on: October 11, 2015, 08:08:34 PM »
Team USA 2016.

Paul Walker wins the Bob Baron Trophy for high score of the meet.

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Offline David Russum

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #165 on: October 11, 2015, 08:14:11 PM »
Orestes Hernandez, Paul Walker, and Dave Fitzgerald
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 09:21:42 PM by David Russum »
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Offline David Russum

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #166 on: October 11, 2015, 08:17:34 PM »
Team alternate Chris Rud flew Bill Werwage's Junar, and quite well!!
I'm assuming that the last photo is the famous landing gear repair form the world champs many years ago?
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Offline john ohnimus

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #167 on: October 12, 2015, 08:08:16 AM »
Thanks Dave for the AWESOME coverage!!!
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Offline SteveMoon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2015, 09:17:13 AM »
Thanks for the great report Dave. Even though I was there I just
read the whole thread!

Overall, a great contest. Of course, I would have much rather finished
10th than 11th! Doh!! Frank did a great job of running the show and the
Texas hospitality under the pavilion was unsurpassed. Doug and I
have been telling people for years that Houston has a great flying site,
and now many more people had a chance to see it for themselves.
I hope the TT are there again soon.

To anyone thinking of attending a TT in the future; go for it. For
competitors this contest is a true test. With four flights on the first
day of competition and three more on the second if you qualify it is
a test of both precision and endurance. Seven judged flights in two days
is taxing both physically and mentally. During the drive back to Dallas
Doug and I were talking about how much we enjoyed it and how much
we were ready to do it again!

Thanks to Frank Williams, John Hill, and all the judges, tabulators,
timers and officials at the contest.

Steve

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2015, 09:44:12 AM »

WOW!!!!  Really Great Job. y1 y1 y1
Congrats to all who made team and my hat's off to all that flew in the Team Trials.

For people that are considering going to and/or flying, Go for it!!! #^  You will never see so many great flights and outstanding pilots.  You will learn about more P/A than you would ever think possible and meet some of the finest people anywhere,

Later,
Mikey

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2015, 10:46:52 AM »
The TT was a great contest and it was a ton of fun.  It was a hard fought battle every inch of the way.  The facilities were top notch.  Frank and crew had it all under control from end to end.  For example, I would land from one of my official flights.  Roll up the lines, clean the plane, get a much needed drink of water, converse with Steve and Mike about my many dreadful mistakes, and walk over to the pavilion and low and behold my score would already be posted. This happened time and time again. I would make some mistakes and my score would be posted!!  It was awesome, well not my mistakes.  Their team was spot on both days!!

The TT is a hard contest. FAI flying is a bit different, and eye opening for sure. If you blow the high point maneuvers it's very difficult to make it up.  In AMA the maneuvers are all worth the same 10-40.  If you blow the square eight, just make sure you had good inverted flight and you can make it up there. Or a good landing etc.  In FAI the square eight is worth 10 points x a factor of 18.  Loops are worth 10 points X a factor of 6.  You can see how perfect loops wont make it up even on your best day.  The toughest part is doing it over and over and over.  I saw lots a very good flying this weekend. Certainly I would have liked to have been up the ladder a little more but I am very glad I attended the event and very thankful to those who put on the contest.

I would say to anyone who has even contemplated the contest to go for it. It will teach you a lot about flying, yours and others.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 11:06:54 AM by Doug Moon »
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #171 on: October 12, 2015, 01:42:12 PM »
These were each set using a transom from the circle center.  That's a little higher than the edge so where the airplane flys it's actually pretty high off the ground.

  Right. Note that I don't think this is explicitly defined in FAI (yet) but for AMA we changed the 5 feet to reference the center of the pilot's circle, so there would be some clear definition of from the 5 feet is to be referenced. Also, that level referred to a plane perpendicular to local vertical, not a constant altitude AGL. On sites with significant "crown" (like the Muncie L-Pad) this can make a substantial difference. We always check where the judges are and sometimes attempt to make adjustments to the bottom height to make it seem right to them. That used to occasionally lead to some interesting limbo contests, particularly on Circle 3 where a NE wind results in the judges standing in what looks like a hole over in the corner.

     People do tend to want to fly lower, because many times this will lead to better scores with inexperienced judges (mostly from shock value), and it's not that easy to stop doing it in other cases. I recall one NW Regionals where we had the bottoms down to about 2 feet between the likely winners as we all were trying to outdo each other, and make it look right for the judges standing well below the pilots circle and the ground on the far side. It also depends somewhat on the likely background "trigger points", where you have to have some reference where to start the corner so it comes out right. The places with tough backgrounds (like Whittier Narrows and Mission College, both with trees about 30+ degrees high on the downwind side, and frequently backlit in the mornings) tend to cause the desired trigger point to be buried in an impenetrable black background and that causes some "interesting" results.

   There are some other tricks played that I decline to point out right now. But you can see what they are with close observation.

    Brett
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 04:47:17 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #172 on: October 12, 2015, 02:03:03 PM »
Having judged two team trials in the past I have to comment about the scoring system.

There is absolutely no reason for K factors since everyone flies the same maneuvers from beginning to end.  K factors are for something like Olympic diving where the participants elect to perform different dives.

To say that round loops are not hard to do is ludicrous! Yet if a judge varies 1/2 point on a square eight you have lost the contest.

The variation in score doesn't even have to be intentional. It could be an unintentional effect of a halo facoter.

If you use a system where you throw out the high and low score, a judge can see to it that a certain favorite can be helped. By being the low judge you force the judge that is normally  low in. The same for the high judge.  Believe me this can and has happened.

The FAI scoring basically says that the reverse wing over and round maneuvers have little value, yet big mistakes are common with those maneuvers.

This system has basically been used for the last 40 years, and sadly will not be changed.

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #173 on: October 12, 2015, 02:58:32 PM »
These were each set using a transom from the circle center.  That's a little higher than the edge so where the airplane flys it's actually pretty high off the ground.  Frank is done and so are we.  I'll be back with your team results soon!!!! Stay tuned!!

I felt these things were a little high.  I had to constantly fly up to them and missed low often.  When I am standing and my arm is out for level flight my plane is usually about 5' off of the ground.  This weekend I was having to fly up to keep it in the range.  Everyone had it the same so it was equal for all of us.

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #174 on: October 12, 2015, 03:32:06 PM »
Having judged two team trials in the past I have to comment about the scoring system.

There is absolutely no reason for K factors since everyone flies the same maneuvers from beginning to end.  K factors are for something like Olympic diving where the participants elect to perform different dives.

To say that round loops are not hard to do is ludicrous! Yet if a judge varies 1/2 point on a square eight you have lost the contest.

The variation in score doesn't even have to be intentional. It could be an unintentional effect of a halo facoter.

If you use a system where you throw out the high and low score, a judge can see to it that a certain favorite can be helped. By being the low judge you force the judge that is normally  low in. The same for the high judge.  Believe me this can and has happened.

The FAI scoring basically says that the reverse wing over and round maneuvers have little value, yet big mistakes are common with those maneuvers.

This system has basically been used for the last 40 years, and sadly will not be changed.

Hello Tom,

I have heard your arguments on this before and I used to agree but further contemplation and I am not so sure I agree anymore.  The K factor is not about my program vs. your program and making the two different programs score evenly like ice skating or diving.  In this case it is simply stating some maneuvers are harder than others and if you do the hard ones really well you are going to have a large advantage. And since we all have to do the highly factored maneuvers we all have access to those points.  It's still an even contest.  Or you could look at it as though they are saying these simple maneuvers should be performed well so the reward is less. If there were no K-factors then it would be AMA without BOM and a 7 minute limit.  With K-factors it's a different contest.  Is that good?  Maybe some think so maybe some don't.  But like I said earlier it makes a big difference.  Richard for example was able to really excel in two of the highly scored maneuvers as the day wore on and his score steadily improved because of it. On the lower factored maneuvers the penalty for mistakes was way less severe and it didn't hurt his score nearly as much. I was not able to put together a strong showing on those same difficult maneuvers and he sailed right past me.  I was not able to catch him on the overall score even if I was able to fly with him or better on the other maneuvers.  It certainly shows the flying in a different light.  He flew well and took advantage of the situation.  Good show RO!!

Just for discussion sake, I cant understand is how the K-factor was applied to the maneuvers.

Scoring range for each maneuver is 1-10, 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. .1 increments are the smallest.
Take Off and Level Flight:    10x2
Reverse Wing Over:            10x8
Inside Loops:                     10x6
Inverted Flight:                  10x2
Outside Loops:                   10x6
Inside Square Loops:          10x12
Outside Square Loops:        10x12
Triangular Loops:               10x14
Horizontal Round Eights:     10x7
Horizontal Square Eights:    10x18
Vertical Eights:                   10x10
Hourglass:                         10x10
Overhead Eights:                10x10
Four-Leaf Clover:                10x8
Landing:                            10x5

Personally I can't figure our why the triangle is rated so high?  
There are many more maneuvers in the list that are much harder to complete properly. Example, a really good set of overhead eights is not nearly as common as a good set of triangles, or a good four-leaf clover.
Also, it would only make sense to me that the K-factors would be setup from hardest to easiest and none matched.

It would be interesting to see the thought process behind assignment of the K-factors.

  
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 05:36:10 PM by Doug Moon »
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #175 on: October 12, 2015, 05:06:42 PM »
Doug,
It looks like they value the maneuvers with corners higher and the tighter the corner (i.e. the triangles) the higher they are valued. I the thinking is these are the areas that present the conditions that can cause the ship to wobble or overshoot or stall, so therefore harder to complete cleanly. The next harder maneuvers are the ones that stack one shape on top of another, again conditions that must be flown tighter and that makes it harder to fly clean (not necessarily just shape and intersections). That's what is looks like to me as to why the K factors are weighted the way they are.

Best,      DennisT

Offline Trostle

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #176 on: October 12, 2015, 05:12:18 PM »

(CliP)

It would be interesting to see the thought process behind assignment of the K-factors.


I cannot shed any light on the "thought process behind assignment of the K-factors", but I can provide some background history on this.

At one time the FAI had an entirely different pattern than is flown now.  That was in the years prior to 1960.  At that time K factors were used for that previous pattern.

I am not sure, but I think that it was in 1960 that the FAI adopted our AMA pattern.  (Both patterns essentially have remained unchanged since that time, though the maneuver descriptions have been, shall we say "refined" for both our AMA pattern as well as the FAI pattern.  The maneuvers and their sequence have not been changed.  Also, I think it was in 1960 that a World Championship competition was held for CL in a format that is similar to what is used today (Speed, Aerobatics, and Team Race), though the format has evolved and Combat was added sometime later.  When the FAI first adopted our AMA pattern, a K-Factor system was applied which I think can be assumed its use was a hold over from the previous FAI scoring system for Aerobatics.  The scoring system for that FAI pattern had several different aspects.  Each portion of each maneuver was scored separately.  In other words, there were three separate scores for each of the 3 consecutive inside loops.  In the case of the eights, each of the two eights (horizontal, square, vertical and overheads had two separate scores.  Then to top off that, each of those separately scored segments had its own K-Factor.  It was sometime later that the entirety of each maneuver was scored using a single K-Factor.  That was about the same time that the hand signal for the FAI pattern had to be given before each maneuver was eliminated.

(Also, in that period, the FAI scoring system was 0 to 10, but in whole point increments.  Sometime later, the FAI scoring system allowed for 1/2 point increments.  Now, 0.1 point increments are used.  In my opinion, each change was for the better as it made it much easier for a judge to distinguish slight differences when scoring  similarly skilled pilots.)

This is not an argument for or against K-Factors.  Just some background on the history of the pattern used for FAI.

Now, for one of my opinions about the FAI K-Factors:  I personally do not think they are needed or make any difference.  I feel the better pattern will be scored higher regardless if K-Factors are used.  It would be interesting to hold a contest (or even a test, say with 10 pilots) with two sets of judges, one using the FAI K-Factors, the other not using the K-Factors.  I would wager that the same ranking would be established.  Oh, there might be a slightly different ranking, but the better pilots would still be ranked higher than those who did fly as good of a pattern.  The same slight ranking variation might (but not necessarily) occur if the high and low scores are not used in the tabulation of each pilot's score, compared to when all scores are used in the average flight scores posted, but that is another subject.

I do not mean to hi-jack this thread.  CONGRATULATIONS TO PAUL, DAVID AND ORESTES.

Keith




Offline Norvaldo

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #177 on: October 12, 2015, 05:16:22 PM »
Horizontal Square Eights  are  10x18 (not 10x14)
Norvald Olsvold

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #178 on: October 12, 2015, 05:36:54 PM »
Horizontal Square Eights  are  10x18 (not 10x14)

I fixed my post. Thanks for catching my error.
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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #179 on: October 12, 2015, 05:42:43 PM »
Hello KT,

Thank you for the background. If they are a hold over then that would explain a lot.

I do beg to differ on your assumption that final ranking would be the same. Maybe not the top few spots but there would be a difference for sure. I saw some maneuvers that would have been very costly in AMA scoring. That could change a few spots here and there.

But it's really nothing to argue about. The two contests are not the same the scoring is so vastly different one could not expect the outcomes to be the same. Pilots know where to bear down in fai and where it doesn't matter as much. A missed landing in fai is not too much to worry about really when you have a killer sqr 8. But a weak or missed sqr 8 cannot be overcome with a good landing no matter how perfectly it is executed. In AMA a good landing CAN overcome a not so good 8 or hourglass or triangle.
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Online Paul Walker

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #180 on: October 12, 2015, 09:41:45 PM »
Thanks for all the photos and reports.   Tough luck on your part with the plane as I know you have been trying hard.  Well maybe a better plane and a decent judge will get you there in the finals and a berth.  Just stay with it.  Congrats to all that participated and especially to the new team.   


I am surprised at your assertion that there weren't any "decent" judges there. Those guys worked their tails off to do their best. I didn't hear any complaints from the pilots.

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #181 on: October 12, 2015, 10:43:49 PM »
I am surprised at your assertion that there weren't any "decent" judges there. Those guys worked their tails off to do their best. I didn't hear any complaints from the pilots.

Here's an echo of that opinion from a guy who didn't win.  I wasn't surprised, though.  I was angered. 
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #182 on: October 12, 2015, 11:03:43 PM »
Congrats to those who placed, won, and those who participated and put in the effort ,,

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #183 on: October 12, 2015, 11:37:56 PM »
I looked it over many times and talked at length with my brother about the contest on our trip home yesterday, as we listened to the Cowboys get slaughtered once again, and we both came to the conclusion that they got it right 100% across the board.

I talked with the pit boss for a while on Sunday. And we came to the conclusion there is no way on earth either of us would want to judge that contest. The flying was very close and that makes it so tough. But once again a quick review of the final placings and it was on the money.

Congrats to Paul David and Orestes, and Chris 1st alternate.  Richard wasn't too far out from Chris. I really wanted to catch Howard but he got me by just over 3 points. Joe and wife Colleen put on a good showing. Not only was Joe excited about this contest but he bought himself a new Chipmonk, a real one!!!!!  Frank had a great two days of flying and found himself in 9th place. His plane, Stardust, is really cool!! Kenney Stevens flew a very quick and crisp pattern. Wes Eakin and Chris Stevens and myself were watching Kenneys last flight and he made a minor mistake somewhere along the way and Wes said "Kick him in shin for that one!" It was SO funny!! There was much laughter this weekend thats for darn sure!! After a good nights sleep I think am ready to try again!!!

It's great to spend time with these guys and get to know them more and more. Orestes and Josias have so many stories, it's great!!!

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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #184 on: October 13, 2015, 12:27:37 AM »
Congrats to the team from us in Darkest Africa. This is a strong team and I believe that they will be strong contenders in OZ next year. I look forward to seeing you guys again as well. I bought our air tickets for me and Bokkie last week so we will be there I'm happy to report.

Just reading what Doug and Steve Moon wrote just shows that there was a wonderful spirit amongst everyone and that is what makes it special, even if you don't come out on top. Well done to all and thanks as always to Dave Trible for the on-site reports. It was so nice to read the progress all the time. This is much appreciated!

Keith R
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #185 on: October 13, 2015, 02:46:58 AM »

I am surprised at your assertion that there weren't any "decent" judges there. Those guys worked their tails off to do their best. I didn't hear any complaints from the pilots.

Just an educated guess on my part but knowing Doc Holiday very well I think he might have meant to say "coach" instead of "judge".
He is typically NOT a critical person and it would be very out of character for him to deliberately criticize the judges.

Like I said an educated guess, knowing He's a good guy but OLD like me!!!  Sometimes the wrong things just come out by accident!

Randy Cuberly

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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #186 on: October 13, 2015, 05:19:53 AM »
Just to add,  that's just Doc.  I've known him my whole life and he was not being critical- he wasn't even there to evaluate the judging ( which was top knotch).  He just sort of stumbled on his tongue.  His heart is in the right place but has been misunderstood at times. 
Hope everyone made it home in good shape.  I have another day off so .... Think I'll go flying...

Dave
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2015, 10:17:19 AM »

I am surprised at your assertion that there weren't any "decent" judges there. Those guys worked their tails off to do their best. I didn't hear any complaints from the pilots.

I should learn to be a little clearer on my posts.  What I was referring to is when Dave gets home that we can help him.  I did mean to say coach.  Old brain fart setting in.  I really did not mean the judges at the team trials or any contest.  I have judged a little in the past and do not consider myself a good judge.  

Now again how do we thank those that stand out in the hot sun doing the judging, also those doing the calculating of the scores and most of all the contest director and his aides.   Forgot the runners with the score sheets.  Who did I leave out?   Just seen it,  pit boss.

By the way Randy I'm one of the strange Holliday's,  its spelled with two 'L's.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #188 on: October 13, 2015, 11:11:05 AM »
I should learn to be a little clearer on my posts.  What I was referring to is when Dave gets home that we can help him.  I did mean to say coach.  Old brain fart setting in.  I really did not mean the judges at the team trials or any contest.  I have judged a little in the past and do not consider myself a good judge.  

Now again how do we thank those that stand out in the hot sun doing the judging, also those doing the calculating of the scores and most of all the contest director and his aides.   Forgot the runners with the score sheets.  Who did I leave out?   Just seen it,  pit boss.

By the way Randy I'm one of the strange Holliday's,  its spelled with two 'L's.

Nothing "strange" about you Doc...even with two L's.  See how well I know you!!!! LL~ LL~ LL~

I knew you wouldn't say bad things about the judges!

See you at VSC I hope!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline frank williams

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #189 on: October 13, 2015, 11:30:35 AM »
Regarding K factors versus AMA scoring ...... would we pick at different team if we were to take the first three places at the NATS and call them the team? ...... selection using the AMA system .... and send them off to fly under the FAI system.  Would the team not be just as good as what we do now?


Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #190 on: October 13, 2015, 01:19:38 PM »
The results probably would be the same and we have an excellent team.

I brought it up because I still feel that since the degree of difficulty is the same for everyone from start to finish, the K factors are not necessary.

This is a system where a slight variation by a judge can change the outcome.

As Keith says it is almost certain that it was a hold over from the early FAI pattern.

I know that I a stirring a pot that will not be changed, but I still question it.
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #191 on: October 13, 2015, 03:58:45 PM »
Wow! You guys did a splendid job keeping us informed and allowing a little vicarious experience of a super event for the rest of us. 'looks like a VERY strong team.

I don't know Chris Rudd yet, but I have to really appreciate his ability and tenacity in placing 4th in that field under his circumstances. It has only three weeks ago that he was at our field during the Cleveland contest receiving that historic "Junar" from Bill Werwage, who was setting it up after a l-o-n-g time unused. Several flights were made before and after the contest to solve engine riddles and dial it in. As far as I know, only Bill flew this plane that day, and Chris had yet to fly it. So in a plane from another time, with many hours of Werwage-type practice on it, Chris Rudd places 4th among America's best. After a summer during which he had lost two superbly built stunters to freaky control system failures, perhaps he can take some satisfaction in this.

I hope I'm not diverting this thread too much, but here are some pictures of where Chris Rudd was, less than three weeks before the trials. Jim and Todd Lee, Chris Rudd, and Bill Werwage are in the photos.

Offline Trostle

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #192 on: October 13, 2015, 04:31:43 PM »

I don't know Chris Rudd yet, but I have to really appreciate his ability and tenacity in placing 4th in that field under his circumstances.

(Clip)


I feel your comments about Chris Rudd are completely justified in this thread. 

For the record, Chris was the Junior member of our F2B Aerobatics on our United States team to the 2006 Control Line World Championships in Valladolid, Spain.  Chris placed second in the Junior competition, and placed 36th overall of the 84 competitors there. 

(Our team, placing 3rd of 30 countries, was Paul Walker, David Fitzgerald and Bob Hunt.  Bill Werwage competed as the defending World Champion.  Robb Gruber competed as defending Jr. World Champion.)

Keith

Online Paul Walker

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #193 on: October 13, 2015, 05:59:38 PM »
I was totally impressed with Chris. His drive and want to excel is very apparent. I mentioned to him on Sunday that all he needs is another 3000 flights and he will perform with the best.

I look forward to seeing him at the next Team Trials with the drive, practice, and equipment to make the team. We need more like him to keep the US excellence in international competition going strong.

We need more "younger" pilot to stand up and show the want to excel, and the ability to take the place of the "older" pilots.

Matt C, Derek B, Doug M and others, how about it?

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #194 on: October 13, 2015, 06:28:10 PM »

 I've seen Chris fly a few times. I think you could give him an ARF Flite Streak with an LA.25 and he'd still be right in the hunt. y1

 Great coverage here Dave, thanks for all the work!
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Online Matt Colan

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #195 on: October 13, 2015, 06:53:03 PM »
Matt C, Derek B, Doug M and others, how about it?

Maybe next time Paul. I had school this time around  :'( 

Congrats to the team members!! Wish I could've joined you three back in 2012 in Bulgaria!
Matt Colan

Offline proparc

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #196 on: October 13, 2015, 08:12:38 PM »
I don't care what scoring system they use. I just want to finish the darn house reno, so I can mix it up with these cats. HB~> HB~>
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Chris_Rud

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2015, 09:30:48 PM »
Thanks everyone! It was an honor to fly Billy's plane.  ;D I wanted to thank Frank for putting on a great contest and I wish the team all the best on their adventure. Thanks to Bill Rutherford for letting me stay at his place!

Here is a photo that I took this afternoon after I unpacked the car. Its all the spent fuel for the 746 flights I flew this season. I grew a lot this season and I'm eager to get building and prepare for next season.

Blessings,
Chris

John Leidle

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #198 on: October 13, 2015, 09:58:45 PM »
   Cris , what engine is in the Junar? OPS ?

Offline Chris_Rud

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Re: 2015 U.S. Team Trials Houston Texas
« Reply #199 on: October 13, 2015, 10:16:58 PM »
   Cris , what engine is in the Junar? OPS ?

It has a PA 61 we stuck in it.


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