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Author Topic: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .  (Read 27526 times)

Offline Air Ministry .

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Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« on: October 02, 2015, 09:19:23 PM »
Er .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 09:24:41 PM »
Thats this morning , doing the leadout grooves on the Super Nova wing at 4 am as I shouldve done it last night . ' Curing ' in the sun just now .


Pictures of the ' REAL ' one .




if you check the INTAKE against the plan , it proves STUDYING pictures proves the plans not neccesarilly 1000 % ,
though they did a few of these , so maybe one was . Therefore being pedantic can lead you up the creek .

Seems the camera went off whilst I wasnt looking . though you never know .  :(
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:09:34 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 09:26:13 PM »
So, this ones the cause of the addled brain cells .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 09:30:25 PM »
vauge approximation of its finished plan , its purloined from  Horton  / Harworth & Heaton Ross  75 Desiigns ,
 though theres a coparable American layout from 1960 Odd . Built the Horton one in 74 with a RVD , timed at 90
( if it wasnt the ETA  :-\) used a 1/4 sheet wing that tended to emulate the seagulls in the gusts or ' under control '
( movement ) at speed. And sumasulted nicely landing in bad grass .

Super Tigre RVD for the wing , ETA 15 for the Nova .
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:11:00 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 09:36:52 PM »
The 4 x 36 in sheet of 3/8 weighed 128 grammes , and still weighs that shaped .  :o with the cedar l.e. & t.e. . At least it shouldnt flex .  :P
This is the Super Nova one , its not so bad ,

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 09:41:30 PM »
Its a fairly long wing , wasa sheet of 4 x 48 x 3/8 I found that seemed fai rly stiff , and the grain flowed with the shape . Spans 45 in. !


Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 01:09:27 AM »
That Supernova wing is LONG! I don't think the PDF that I have mentions the span. Just that you have to splice it if building from 36" balsa.

I've been "collecting" old Racer plans from the net but don't remember the "wing". What is it? Do you have a scan? I like the fuselage lines.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline qaz049

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 05:32:21 PM »

I've been "collecting" old Racer plans from the net but don't remember the "wing". What is it? Do you have a scan? I like the fuselage lines.

I've seen a plan for what I thought was a Horton "B" class TR "wing". It was probably on the Barton forum.

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 08:00:53 PM »
Hymph . Mutter . forgot the camera ( as this computors the public library ones ) .

Yea , the Span is 45 inches , 4 1/4 root chord , tip chord 1 3/16 .
Got the wing shaved and sanded to primary airfoil. Like to let it ease in and finish over a week or two , to ' stress relieve .
As in if you did one side of one side shaped and finished itd pull itself out of shape as you did the next .

Ive a drawing for a twin boom 60's place / harworth ETA 15 T/R . that I put the picture from ' the Rallies ' aside ,
and havnt been able to find for MONTHS .  >:(Looking in the old mags of ' engine tests ' I found two pictures from 63 of the plane
when it was just the ' NOVA ' same get up , bar front deck like a pan & wrap around windshield to similar but contured rear X section.

Ive put 1/16 ply one tips foor the streamline ' bullets ' / Gotta find a few things yet , Do a Bellcrank , but its pretty simple .

Dug this out looking for the Harworth One. They did a series ( this is Third at that Nats ( pic of finalists ) . ) I havnt a scanner ,
buttle photo a few blow ups of their 1/2 A and others . Be a bit frightening ina B . My first one ' glued into the groove ' so you
had to jerk the controls to get it to jump , say overtakeing - but was just built & flown . No medling with c.g. or suchlike .
Think it mustve been the RV so likely noseheavyish .


Dunno if these are  materialiseing , so will put the link here .



http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_odkw=aero+modeller+1965&_sop=1&_osacat=20081&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xaero+modeller+1975.TRS0&_nkw=aero+modeller+1975&_sacat=20081 or TRY . cover of the August 75 aeromodelor ( scrounged from ebay ) mines ' a derivative ' of it .  ;)

Wonders never cease ! link if you click on the picture will get it 50000 times the size .  ;)


Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 08:16:58 PM »
That Supernova wing is LONG! I don't think the PDF that I have mentions the span. Just that you have to splice it if building from 36" balsa.

I've been "collecting" old Racer plans from the net but don't remember the "wing". What is it? Do you have a scan? I like the fuselage lines.

It Like That !  ;D

Do you have anything on this G 15 FI Rumple powered thing . ??

BRENDEL/GLODECK TEAM RACE  G/A drg         GERMANY   BRENDEL/GLODECK   36   C   W   TeamRace   AM7111   614
BRENDEL/GLODECK TEAM RACE  G/A drg      MZ110   GERMANY   BRENDEL/GLODECK   36   C   W   TeamRace   MODEZ7108   insert


details flogged from the SAM thingo .

Will photocopy the British 70's Fwing Thing pictures I have , enlarged , and use the Camera phone, without the phone . LL~ %^@

Aeromudler Harworth / Place .





this ones a mystery . " 1965 FAI class racer by Gerry Hand of Ireland "
Must be a parrallel universe .



Bears more than a passing resemblance to Don Burkes GRMZYPH , which the plan is under the bench .  >:(
along with ' one or two ' others . Got the drawing direct from the magazine , for the Fwing .


RAY , Im after some 3/8 or 1/2 or 1/4 Mag or alloy plate , if you have some spare & are down next sunday , and I'll whittle one up .
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 11:03:08 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2015, 01:18:50 AM »


this ones a mystery . " 1965 FAI class racer by Gerry Hand of Ireland "
Must be a parrallel universe .

Bears more than a passing resemblance to Don Burkes GRMZYPH...
I don't remember where I got that photo... maybe some ACLN issue??? EDIT: Nope, it was "Classic FAI Newsletter 3" http://aerosports.net.au/LS/Classic_FAI_Teamrace_Site/Newsletters.html
I have another one of that model from John O'Sullivan (Irishman now in Canada), taken at 1965 Irish Nats.
I thought it resembles the 1963 Zolotoverch & Kobets model.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 04:58:10 AM by PerttiMe »
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2015, 07:28:29 AM »
Beautiful planes back in the 70's shame what it turned into but form follows function I guess.


MM

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2015, 08:56:35 AM »
Racing 50s to early 70's style 2.5cc models seems to have some following in at least Australia, NZ and UK....
Plans for models of that time are available at "the usual free plans sites", and the thread I started in the C/L section on rcgroups - and of course many individuals who have them on paper.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 08:20:52 AM »
Who needs plans, I still got the planes lol.


MM

Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 02:54:40 PM »
some of the most classic and beautiful lines of c/l

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 03:18:54 AM »
Who needs plans, I still got the planes lol.
Pictures is all I've even seen.... Likely, until I build something that at least looks like one.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline qaz049

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 04:42:17 AM »
Who needs plans, I still got the planes lol.

MM

Pictures, we want pictures {-)

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2015, 11:20:47 PM »
Who needs plans, I still got the planes lol.


MM


 LL~ LL~



thatsa newone ! Don Burke mentions messing around with F.A.I. , wonder which predates what .
THE OTHER PICTURE of it , is in a olde smae ' Model Aircraft ' mag , from 65  or maybe aeromuddler , I have .

Holiday Yesterday in regard to MOIR , Got a few more pics to puton tomorrow , got a little done & XFW drg. finalised at 3 am the other day .
Quite amusing being half asleep and being all artistic rather than logic , though the infos devoured theres to much to be to logical ,
so the synthisis through ' balance ' equalises the weight of information . Then you can be a well balanced Australian ,
With a Chip on Both Shoulders ! .
 S?P LL~ S?P

Just calculated Phil Staples 3.56.9 for ten miles with his ' B ' , 99.99999999 etc , Must think He's Malcolm Uphill .




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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2015, 11:35:21 PM »
flooged these from rc wo , Er . . .





To  keeps the peasants from revolting !  VD~ ;D

Parent Kelly Machine . Some Say to be ' the best ' looking FAI  T / R built .
One thing here the blokes with honda engines in their Nortons get better economy m so real ( period ) engines need 10 cc tanks to give range parity .

Offline don Burke

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2015, 10:25:57 AM »

 LL~ LL~


I started flying rat in 1959 with the Wash DC club.  Designed GRMZPF after moving to Cal in 1962, the TR evolved from the rat.

thatsa newone ! Don Burke mentions messing around with F.A.I. , wonder which predates what .
THE OTHER PICTURE of it , is in a olde smae ' Model Aircraft ' mag , from 65  or maybe aeromuddler , I have .

Holiday Yesterday in regard to MOIR , Got a few more pics to puton tomorrow , got a little done & XFW drg. finalised at 3 am the other day .
Quite amusing being half asleep and being all artistic rather than logic , though the infos devoured theres to much to be to logical ,
so the synthisis through ' balance ' equalises the weight of information . Then you can be a well balanced Australian ,
With a Chip on Both Shoulders ! .
 S?P LL~ S?P

Just calculated Phil Staples 3.56.9 for ten miles with his ' B ' , 99.99999999 etc , Must think He's Malcolm Uphill .




don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2015, 05:24:15 PM »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2015, 05:43:51 PM »
stupid computors playing up .Final evolution of F Wing Fuse . Drg .




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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2015, 05:46:09 PM »
Another Devious Scheme , Burning the Midnight Oil .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »
My Take on it . ETA 15 , Tigress Nose figured in the plot .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2015, 05:52:34 PM »
XFW aeromudle mag .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2015, 05:54:00 PM »
Heaton Ross .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2015, 05:55:03 PM »
Dolgner , USA , 1962


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2015, 06:05:38 PM »
Heaton & Ross . Bugl . 75 ish

« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 06:29:26 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2015, 06:08:22 PM »
Horton .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2015, 06:13:24 PM »
Notta Nother One . Wing for Twin Boom ETA ship .

33 span , 5 1/2 Chord , 4 1/2 Tip . Rubber Bands , spacers etc . Shave ends & rear & fit 1/8 Sq TE next .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2015, 06:16:24 PM »
Lump on 2nd from lefts C Case Corner , V clever , we thought . at the time . Many Full Size aircraft , the cowling ' wraps 'the Cam Covers .
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 10:52:03 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2015, 06:21:24 PM »
From Rear .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2015, 06:22:40 PM »
Nova Tip


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2015, 10:40:43 PM »
retook to reduce pixies .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2015, 10:48:09 PM »
Phil Staples N.Z. Record Holder ' B ' , ST 21/29 ABC FI . Not a City Slicker .

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2015, 12:41:30 AM »
(GRMZPF photo)
That is the GRMZPF photo that I've seen before. Then, I've seen some rough GRMZPF plan scans that look more like a Rat Racer???
...

I've never before seen the designs in the other photos. Interesting. The "Phil Staples B" looks great. Is there more information about it?
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2015, 09:45:37 PM »
Don sent me a pdf of the GRMZPH ' B ' that ive recently had printed , Print shop said he would hold the scan for me, hasn't sent it yet .Will check .
Spoke to Mr Staples by phone in Wanganui several years ago . Ive been scribbling on a picture to ascertain dimensions . Should see if He is still with us.Im sure he said the span was 21 & tailplane 16 forty years ago !. Remember the paint wraps in a bead at the flat tips , so theyre
' boundary layer ' like a golf ball .  8)
Theres one other F'wing picture somewhere ( Horton , wonder if he's related TO Horten ?  :##). Will do the Nova / supernova ones one day ,
One is ETA 3.2 cc in Supernova In ' B ' Finals at British Nats .
Fell free to ' borrow ' the printed pictures / plans .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2015, 10:02:19 PM »


appears to not be the same Irishman .  >:( But Appears to be the same Flying surfaces .
Maybe compatriots .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2015, 09:19:32 PM »
Current state of play .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2015, 09:23:15 PM »
Got some pan hold down nut thingos , so might get a bit of progress . Need to conjure up bellcranks .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2015, 07:46:22 PM »
ok , fitting the BOOMS , 10 mm Dia. carbon tube , cut the 40 in length in half for accuracy of alignment . A Tip .
If you play Paul Robeson and put it on the bench , It comes out exactly aligned First time .  ;) ;D

 What a Surprise . H^^
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 10:15:02 PM by Matt Spencer »

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2015, 07:48:45 PM »
ok Tail Feathers on the FWing , which the REGULATIONS say is Not O.K.  S?P

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2015, 07:50:49 PM »
Next Morning .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2015, 07:52:44 PM »
A Differant ANGLE .  :o

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2015, 07:59:35 PM »
This Saturday Morning , Mk III ETA 15 in the Boomer . Dual carbon 2 off 2 x 10 Dia booms .
That wings STIFF being built from a slightly HARD sheet of 3/8 .

The Mk IIIs a reed valve , the Mk III case has flanges to mate to a exhaust duct , to seperate the cooling & Exhaust ducts .
Anyone got any ETA parts of  K&B 15 Schnurle ( 1972 / 74 ) pieces or ' B ' stamped motor spare .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2015, 09:39:54 PM »
More Drudgery and Whittling .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2015, 09:41:42 PM »
If its not there , it doesnt weigh anything .  :-\


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2015, 09:45:33 PM »
To much 1/2 square hardwood gets it built like a Sherman Tank . With a comparable weight . A afternoons hacking got rid of most of it , and other ' clearances ' for the RVD got rid of more , so weights back acceptable and the Original Idea of ' replacing ' the one Id built in the 70's ( Replicateingish ) back on track ,
with one or two ' allowances ' .


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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2015, 09:49:45 PM »
Seeing Classic A & B here ban Flying Wings , and B requires Two Wheels - we'll (  :##) cover a few other options. Perhaps . Calculateing of the Combat G-15 & five minutes on 110 cc on 10% Nitro , a G-15 should give 30 laps on 30 cc. Or a G-15/19 for , as the wheels removable I can always upset the serius Speed Flyers with it ! .

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Re: Classic F A I . or whats the silly bugger up to now .
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2015, 09:52:15 PM »
Tips are double 1 / 32 ply epoxied round a 1 1/8 dia. tube to mould . Theyll have a hardwood rounded fore / underpart .



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