Author Topic: 46 LA on a pipe? (Read 9289 times)

Bradley Walker · « **on:** August 28, 2015, 10:12:28 AM »

If a man wanted a good 46 sized pipe rig what are his choices these days? I have a few of the Z Rex (600 square inch T Rex). I have two St 60s and an electric setup. I have always been a big fan of the LA 46 and Doug Moon had an OS 32 on a pipe that was stellar. Any ideas?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:45:01 AM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 10:12:28 AM

If a man wanted a good 46 sized pipe rig what are his choices these days? I have a few of the Z Rex (600 square inch T Rex). I have two St 60s and an electric setup. I have always been a big fan of the LA 46 and Doug Moon had an OS 32 on a pipe that was stellar. Any ideas?

There's hasn't been a lot of work done on the 46LA on a pipe but it should work if you are willing to experiment. I might suggest a 40VF instead, with a Magnum 36 as an alternative.

Brett

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:46:00 AM »

There's that.

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:46:57 AM »

I have no idea where to get a vf. But I have seen the magnum 36 on the pipe and it's smooth as glass.

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Tim Wescott · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:02:59 AM »

If you're going to experiment with engines that are new to stunt, why not experiment with a current production engine like the OS 35AX, ASP S32A, Magnum 46XLS or OS 46AX? That way when you're done you'll have a combination to recommend that anyone can just go out and buy, without having to buy used stuff from eBay and hope that it's good.

I suspect that for a 600sq in model the 46-sized engines would be huge overkill; they're a lot more powerful than the 46LA and may be hard to tone down. In your shoes I'd start with the 35AX.

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:13:53 AM »

The magnum 36 would work. It's a version of the OS 32. It would require a wrap around header.

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Steve_Pollock · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:15:17 AM »

There's an OS .40 VF supposedly NIB on RCGroups now: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2489755

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:35:16 AM »

Ed Culver ran an LA-46 on a pipe and it worked well, but when one of my friends in the club tried to duplicate the setup, the liner on the LA failed. Not a "peeled" liner, but one of the cases where the nickel just sort of "evaporated" from the pinch area.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:36:22 AM »

What about........ Saito 62?

big ron · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:50:29 AM »

Dwayne Donnelly has a post on here with one on a Challenger

john ohnimus · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:50:40 AM »

Really like the way that muffler looks on the VF... I wonder what it weighs...?

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2015, 12:33:02 PM »

Quote from: Stephen_Pollock on August 28, 2015, 11:15:17 AM

There's an OS .40 VF supposedly NIB on RCGroups now: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2489755

That's the rare VF with a warp drive nacelle to go with it!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:07:00 PM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 10:46:57 AM

I have no idea where to get a vf. But I have seen the magnum 36 on the pipe and it's smooth as glass.

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I know,, look in the classifieds here,, there happens to be one listed,,

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:10:14 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on August 28, 2015, 12:33:02 PM

That's the rare VF with a warp drive nacelle to go with it!

Do you belong to that Forum?

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Steve Helmick · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:14:23 PM »

Igor Burger flew a .46LA/pipe combo in a WC sometime in the last decade and IIRC, placed in the top 10. He tilted the engine and used a simple header, not the wrap-around.

However...the .46LA and Magnum XLS .36 (used in PTG's setup) have very similar bolt pattern on the exhaust...I used a .46LA muffler on my XLS .36 with zero mods (needed the nose weight, and it ran great). So the wrap-around header would probably fit just fine. Randy Smith has them. I'm planning a .46LA/"Utah pipe" on a Pathfinder. The volume of the pipe is probably too big, but it's very pretty and also light. The .46LA timing is right in the ballpark of all the popular stunt engines on Randy's pipe chart, so no doubt it'll work with the correct pipe and length. I've not found a pipe to be any hassle at all, but you don't want to transport your plane nose-down or have it be carried back to the pits nose-down.

Steve

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:30:56 PM »

Yah I know about Igor. I always wondered why no one threw a pipe on an LA 46.

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:44:08 PM »

Someone please tell me about the "Brett Buck" version RO Jett.... Haha

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2015, 01:54:11 PM »

Man, every time I think about getting back into stunt I remember all the politics of engines I went through. It seems so silly.

If I get a 40vf what is the venturi to use?

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:32:10 PM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 01:54:11 PM

Man, every time I think about getting back into stunt I remember the ass handings I had given to me by liars and politicians and think I would be much better to just stick to guns and guitars...

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Maybe that's due to your attitude? How's it going with the Honda Odyssey? All you need is a bass boat and you'll have all the cool toys.

Steve

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:33:00 PM »

Yah. I'm the problem.

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #20 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:33:31 PM »

I haven't had a Honda Odyssey for about ten years.

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Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:35:35 PM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 01:44:08 PM

Someone please tell me about the "Brett Buck" version RO Jett.... Haha

It has greater exhaust duration than the "stock", and runs much more evenly (less boost/brake) than the regular version or the PA. It probably ought to be called the Jim Tichy version because his was the first one I saw with that change (which, as Randy noted, was done by "mistake"). it's like a gigantic 46VF that you can still get parts for.

Brett

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:42:56 PM »

Yah. I know what it is... It's the exact same engine I was running in a 65... I had several of them. All of the 65 versions had mistake timing. Between me and Eather we checked about four of them. I was told for a year it was 136 port timing.... Until I measured it myself... And found out the port was eight degrees off and the blow down was also eight degrees longer. Which is why it ran so crazy awesome or it would run away as the pipe was about two inches short. I told the salesman what I found and I was called every name in the book, even after Dub admitted his mistake... I believe I was one that told Randy....

Now there is a special "mistake version" named after you.

Life is just too bizarre to believe.

But I agree with you Brett. Put an Eather green on that thing and it was pretty dang amazing. I've seen the new version. Don't much care for it.

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #23 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:50:58 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on August 28, 2015, 01:07:00 PM

I know,, look in the classifieds here,, there happens to be one listed,,

It's yours!!!!

You nut. I sent you a pm.

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Dave_Trible · « **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:58:44 PM »

I think for the size you are talking about here you couldn't beat the RO Jett .40 BSERE. Lots of mojo and dependability in a light .25 sized case. It pulls anything up to about 64 ounces with ease even on APC props. A perfect Classic motor on muffler too.

Dave

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #25 on:** August 28, 2015, 03:39:26 PM »

Yah that is a nice engine. I don't think I'll be giving Jett any of my money...

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RandySmith · « **Reply #26 on:** August 28, 2015, 04:54:16 PM »

The 46 LA works well on a pipe as does the 40 LA , I have tested one/both and have also seen them work, If I were to do that I would lean towards a TT40 GP or Tower 40, I may have both here, as well as I do have a new 46 AAC version Smith 46VF
The TT 36 works well too

Randy

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #27 on:** August 28, 2015, 05:58:50 PM »

The AAC 46VF from Randy Smith is the real deal. Very powerful and usable. They are smooth and with the right pipe setup (from Randy)
They regulate very well. The AAC set up is a little lighter also. Probably lighter than the stock VF40, and will turn more prop.

Randy Cuberly

Brett Buck · « **Reply #28 on:** August 28, 2015, 07:35:27 PM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 02:42:56 PM

Now there is a special "mistake version" named after you.

Life is just too bizarre to believe.

I have found this "mistake" to be pretty beneficial to my success.

Brett

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #29 on:** August 28, 2015, 08:02:54 PM »

I agree that version is the best.

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Steve Fitton · « **Reply #30 on:** August 28, 2015, 08:16:04 PM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 28, 2015, 01:54:11 PM

Man, every time I think about getting back into stunt I remember all the politics of engines I went through. It seems so silly.

If I get a 40vf what is the venturi to use?

.265 venturi 18.75" pipe 11.25x4.25 2 blade prop this is the setup per Brett and David in the Tuned Pipe SN article.

At the risk of being a Moriarty and giving out negative waves, I think finding props will make you crazy. Nobody is making props anymore except for electric planes.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #31 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:21:54 PM »

I don't really think you can compare the double ball bearing 40/46 VF motors the bushed 40/46 motors. They aren't even in the same ball park. The VFs are far heavier motors due to much beefier construction. The bushed motors are much lighter. There would certainly be a huge difference in trim.

I ran an FP 40 on an aero pipe for quite a while on cool power all syn 10%. Side exhaust. Just ran it down the side of the plane and dumped out under the flap. It was a full fuse buccaneer 740. I mounted a Dave Brown pipe mount on the side that kept the pipe off of the plane. The 40 aero pipe is pretty small. It was not very noticeable and it worked! It made the motor amazingly calm and predictable. It never over heated or ran away. Ran it on apc 11x4 and it cooked along in a wet 2 with just a burp here and there. Ran the largest Venturi OS offers for it and set it and forget it.

Amazing simple.

I am quite certain the same can be created with the LA 46. Should be a snap. Should be close in a few flying sessions.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #32 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:23:22 PM »

Deleted for double post.

Joseph Patterson · « **Reply #33 on:** August 29, 2015, 08:49:11 AM »

A little late responding, but I thought Scott Reise did some work with piped OSFP/LA ENGINES. I thought he had an article in Stunt News years ago??
Doug

Brent Williams · « **Reply #34 on:** August 30, 2015, 01:19:51 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Patterson on August 29, 2015, 08:49:11 AM

A little late responding, but I thought Scott Reise did some work with piped OSFP/LA ENGINES. I thought he had an article in Stunt News years ago??
Doug

Anyone know what month that article is from?

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2015, 09:50:56 AM »

The LA 46 without a pipe on a tongue muffler is amazing. I used to run cut down Eather greenies on mine in a buccaneer and it pulled with authority. On a pipe I bet it would drink twice the fuel... Which would mean power. Plenty for my new place size

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Steve Fitton · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2015, 12:26:26 PM »

I had said props will be an issue, but if you run the LA 46 the old standby Doug and Steve used of the APC 12.25x3.75 cut down to 11.75, it will probably work as perfect as it ever did.

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #37 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:13:49 AM »

Yes I had already thought of that. They work well on the 40vf also. Considering were age developed them for the 40vf and ops 40.

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Brett Buck · « **Reply #38 on:** August 31, 2015, 10:17:38 AM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 31, 2015, 08:13:49 AM

Yes I had already thought of that. They work well on the 40vf also. Considering were age developed them for the 40vf and ops 40.

I think that was the 11.5-4 (original narrow blade). The 12.25-3.75 was a suggestion by David for the 46VF, I think, because while the 40 will spin it, it's too much.

Brett

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #39 on:** August 31, 2015, 10:19:14 AM »

Yes, Doug always cut off about a half inch. He just did it at the field until the motor was loaded perfectly. Oh what's not nice about cheap props!!!!

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Bradley Walker · « **Reply #40 on:** August 31, 2015, 10:23:21 AM »

What would happen if you used a 61 pipe with the 46?

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RandySmith · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:35:38 AM »

Quote from: Bradley Walker on August 31, 2015, 10:23:21 AM

What would happen if you used a 61 pipe with the 46?

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they will work OK, use a 9mm exhaust deflector on it

Randy

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #42 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:36:36 AM »

Smaller rubber ducky.... Haha keeps the poo in the pipe longer....

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Scott B. Riese · « **Reply #43 on:** September 01, 2015, 11:31:30 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Patterson on August 29, 2015, 08:49:11 AM

A little late responding, but I thought Scott Reise did some work with piped OSFP/LA ENGINES. I thought he had an article in Stunt News years ago??
Doug

Yep...Back in 1996-7 I still run a mac's mini pipe on my pathfinder. Works very well. I also ran the FP-40 on a mac's pipe all Alunimin (sp) on a 65oz vegus. I can't find the artical.........

RandySmith · « **Reply #44 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:39:42 PM »

Brad i still have many dozens of headers, side to rear in stock for many engines, so if you go that way let me know

Randy

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #45 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:58:53 PM »

what is the pipe length suggested for the Magnum 36xls?

Martin