Author Topic: Would there be a market for Aerogloss type paint? (Read 4202 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** August 25, 2015, 11:42:36 AM »

While talking to a Dope Manufacture he was interested in duplicating Aerogloss. I am sending him a 1/4 of UN opened clear.

He is going to have it analyzed and try to make something close if there is a market for it.

Motorman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2015, 11:51:08 AM »

At least we'll finally find out what it's made of. I remember brush painting 1/2a planes with it at 10 years old, good stuff. Does it have anything over regular dope?

MM

George Albo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2015, 11:54:51 AM »

I'm interested.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2015, 12:23:31 PM »

My information at the time that they stopped making it was that it used a couple of constituents that were very EPA unfriendly and the EPA was requiring them to do a tremendous amount of testing to prove it was safe. The expense was overwhelming so they simply stopped making it rather than fight the battle!

I don't know what that means in terms of today nor do I know what the two constituents were but it may still be a problem.

I do know that it worked very well and gave great finishes. It did have a little more of a shrinkage problem over time. I remember a Cobra of mine that turned into a "prezel" in the Arizona sun one afternoon, and it had plasticizer added to the dope.

However, if someone could in fact duplicate the formula for a competitive price I for one would certainly be interested and I'm sure a lot of the "Old" guys like me would be interested.

One outstanding thing I remember about using it is that it was very forgiving in application process as compared to other dopes on the market at the time. I realize of course that is totally subjective but is at least my opinion of the stuff. Colors were brilliant and stayed that way.

Also it was very, very fuel proof!

Randy Cuberly

Brett Buck · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2015, 12:43:17 PM »

Quote from: Randy Cuberly on August 25, 2015, 12:23:31 PM

Also it was very, very fuel proof!

*Moderately* fuel proof. Better than most batches of SIG and much better than some batches of Brodak. But nothing like 2-part epoxies and urethanes.

I am also more curious what it was and what was in it. Everyone told me it was acrylic lacquer with some sort of fuel-proofing agent (and it sometimes got brittle like acrylic lacquer, leading to the occasional tragic results) but nothing you could rely on.

Brett

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2015, 01:54:59 PM »

Quote from: Brett Buck on August 25, 2015, 12:43:17 PM

*Moderately* fuel proof. Better than most batches of SIG and much better than some batches of Brodak. But nothing like 2-part epoxies and urethanes.

I am also more curious what it was and what was in it. Everyone told me it was acrylic lacquer with some sort of fuel-proofing agent (and it sometimes got brittle like acrylic lacquer, leading to the occasional tragic results) but nothing you could rely on.

Brett

I never had any embrittlement problems but then back in those days my airplanes didn't last all that long either. A lot of them were Combat planes!

The Cobra incident happened at the 3rd VSC here in Tucson and the Dope was very old but unopened.

Randy Cuberly

RC Storick · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2015, 02:02:02 PM »

Quote from: Rusty Pieper on August 25, 2015, 12:15:47 PM

How could he beat Aircraft Spruce (Randolph) for prices and quality.

As a mater of fact Randolph is the ones looking into it.

Paul Walker · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2015, 02:08:50 PM »

Yes, I'm interested. I have used up my entire supply many years ago unfortunately. I have one plane painted with it that is 20 years old that I still fly at least one test session every year.

Yes, Yes!

Tony Drago · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2015, 02:19:02 PM »

I heard back in the day that there was a saying. You could paint over Aero Gloss. But you could not paint Aero Gloss over butyrate. Could that have meant Aero Gloss was Nitrite? I'm up for correction or more info.
Count me in.

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2015, 03:11:35 PM »

I'm interested.

RC Storick · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2015, 03:40:12 PM »

Quote from: Tony Drago on August 25, 2015, 02:19:02 PM

I heard back in the day that there was a saying. You could paint over Aero Gloss. But you could not paint Aero Gloss over butyrate. Could that have meant Aero Gloss was Nitrite? I'm up for correction or more info.
Count me in.

You can not paint Aerogloss over anything! I'm not sure but I think it must have MEK in it.

riley wooten · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2015, 03:54:44 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on August 25, 2015, 03:40:12 PM

You can not paint Aerogloss over anything! I'm not sure but I think it must have MEK in it.

Back in the 50's, 60's I used nothing but butyrate clear and Aero Gloss colors.. Used butyrate thinner in everything and never had a problem, over, under. whatever... Must have been lucky but sure AG has changed since then.....
RW

Howard Rush · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2015, 04:08:07 PM »

I was fixing to contact Randolph to ask them if Aero Gloss was actually Randolph acrylic. Somebody who's been there a long time might know. Thanks for looking into this, Robert. I like Aero Gloss.

Tony Drago · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2015, 04:46:31 PM »

I hope it works out. Please keep us updated.

Andre Ming · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2015, 05:41:33 PM »

Aerogloss!!

Way back in the 1960s, my first wood and dope airplanes used Aerogloss. I wouldn't be a huge customer, but I'd be interested in using Aerogloss if a good enough range of colors would be available.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:12:30 PM »

My Magic 8 Ball says no chance. The EPA will mandate solvent changes that will make it a total flop.

Jim Dincau · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:29:04 PM »

I would buy it.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on August 25, 2015, 06:12:30 PM

My Magic 8 Ball says no chance. The EPA will mandate solvent changes that will make it a total flop.

Yeah, like I said...I think that's what happened to make them stop making it. However rules change and solvents come and go. I think it will come to nothing but is worth a try. Certainly Randolf must have the expertise to find out! I seriously doubt that any existing patents or copyrights could still be in force. If it happens you and Randolf will definitely be HERO's in my book!

Randy Cuberly

Mike Keville · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2015, 08:21:23 PM »

Original Aero Gloss was great, though I'd much rather see someone revive Testors 'STA' (early '50s). Loved that stuff!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2015, 08:43:53 PM »

In my early years I used Aerogloss simply because that's what the LHS had on the shelves. I'd use it straight from the jar or can and thought it worked well, but at the time I didn't know any better. I do remember it lifting off of fillets with regularity.

Later, I discovered Sig dope. It was shortly after that when I learned about thinning dope and thus, using it "properly". Overall, I liked the Sig better than the Aerogloss and I used it for years.

These days (roughly the past 6-8 years) I use Brodak and Randolph exclusively. To me, especially with the colors, it doesn't even compare to the other two. The pigments seem a LOT better and coverage is much, much better. I'd have a real hard time finding a reason to try anything else.

RknRusty · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2015, 09:33:27 PM »

I have a small bottle each of Aerogloss clear and black. It does say MEK on the warning label. I use it mostly for covering wood exposed after repairs. And I removed the Monokote and painted the whole nose of my Magnum with black and clear. And the microballoon filets on my ARF Oriental, same combination. It's convenient for brushing on small jobs like that. My LHS has some, but I have no idea how old it is.
Rusty

Bill Johnson · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2015, 06:32:25 AM »

Randolph should have no problem making it, no matter what the solvents are. Current Randolph products use MEK, toluene, butyl and ethyl acetate and a host of other chemicals that the EPA regulates. Once you have the engineering controls in place and approved (which they do) it's just a matter of determining the chemical composition and how to mix it.

bruce fraser · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2015, 08:00:16 AM »

Aerogloss is still available.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAU61&P=ML

bob jablonski · « **Reply #23 on:** August 26, 2015, 08:34:27 AM »

The only Aerogloss being made now it Balsa filler, Sanding sealer and thinner. The few colors that are on the market are old items. I think Midwest may have a couple colors on close out.
If new batches of colors come out I would carry them in my shop. Now lets talk about Ambroid

Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
countylinehobbies@yahoo.com
www.countylinehobbies.com
Like us on facebook

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 26, 2015, 09:53:13 AM »

My first balsa airplanes were doped with AeroGloss in the late 60s early 70s IIRC

So Yes, I too am interested if the product reappeared

My memory is: for my balsa combat ships and Missile Mist fuel, it was plenty fuel proof.... But I did say combat ships so we are certainly not talking about hundreds of flights and years of use.....grin

billbyles · « **Reply #25 on:** August 26, 2015, 01:25:19 PM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on August 25, 2015, 03:40:12 PM

You can not paint Aerogloss over anything! I'm not sure but I think it must have MEK in it.

Hi Robert,

All butyrate dope, per MIL-D-5549B contains MEK (31.9% by weight.) Butyrate dope contains: 1) Non-volatile components - Cellulose-Acetate Butyrate 9% by weight and Triphenyl Phosphate 1% with 2) Volatile components - Diacetone Alcohol 9%, Ethyl Acetate 36%, Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone 31.9%, and Butyl Acetate, Normal 13.5%. Just FYI.

Bill

Larry Borden · « **Reply #26 on:** August 26, 2015, 01:40:11 PM »

Quote from: bob jablonski on August 26, 2015, 08:34:27 AM

If new batches of colors come out I would carry them in my shop. Now lets talk about Ambroid
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
countylinehobbies@yahoo.com
www.countylinehobbies.com
Like us on facebook

I still use Ambroid! Old habits never die.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #27 on:** August 26, 2015, 01:57:35 PM »

I'd buy it. It was awesome stuff. Better than the Randolph's and Certified I use now.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #28 on:** August 26, 2015, 02:15:12 PM »

I'd buy it as long as it was the old formula not the stuff they put out for the last few years they sold it. I loved the original AG, I don't know what they did to it at the end but it wasn't the same. All their colors covered well and the clear was truely clear with excellent adhesive quality.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #29 on:** August 26, 2015, 02:44:57 PM »

I agree with Mr Ryan. It would have to be the original formula.

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #30 on:** August 26, 2015, 08:20:40 PM »

I used Aerogloss on my 1/2A's as a kid. I remember it getting gooey from Cox fuel after a while. Still good stuff.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #31 on:** August 27, 2015, 01:16:05 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on August 26, 2015, 02:44:57 PM

I agree with Mr Ryan. It would have to be the original formula.

Careful what you wish for. I think that most of us were familiar and grew up with the acrylic lacquer version of Aerogloss. However, there was a previous type marketed under the Aerogloss name that was a traditional butyrate dope - which we currently have in multiple choices.

Brett

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #32 on:** August 27, 2015, 01:20:42 PM »

Probably not. I'm pretty comfortable with the selection and quality of Sig and Brodak. Prefer to keep them in business rather than cut their already declining market share by offering another finishing option.