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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2015, 08:35:56 PM »
Rusty:
Sorry for getting off topic but had to answer some post. I think vintage designs should be before 1970. The advent of super glue and plastic film about that time changed everything.. On the other hand, if it turns you on, build it and have fun. That is the name of the game is it not.??????
RW

Offline Dennis Moritz

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What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2015, 09:21:13 PM »
Do I remember correctly? Did a Flite Streak finish high at the NATs sometime around the early 60s? That would be in fast combat.


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Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2015, 07:36:28 PM »
Super Satin painted and almost ready to fly....super twister on the jig..next...jim ;D
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2015, 09:37:00 PM »
Cool paint.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2015, 10:04:02 PM »
Thanks Howard..the devil made me do it ! ;D  jim
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Offline Gordan Delaney

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2015, 10:49:39 AM »
Hi Jim,
I built 3 super twisters,But on the third one I added one more main rib bay to each side, which made the wing 43 inches. It was 2 mph faster than the small one. Turn much better. Thought you might want to try that on your next build. Just thought you would like to know   it was clock at 100 and 11 mpr.

Gordy

Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2015, 12:58:09 PM »
Thanks Gordy for the heads up on the super twister I'll do that on one..got the last kit Marvin Denny sold before his passing and gonna build one as is..very interested in building your challenger also if you got plans or templates thanks  jim
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2015, 01:36:40 PM »
I built a lot of Veco "Big Iron" based designs, a couple of Super Swoops, some originals ("Mashers" and "Molesters") and one sole RW kit Sneaker. I liked the Sneaker for flying solo, but not so much for combat. Bruce Tunberg built a Bill Netzeband "Splinter"
with a G.20 .15, and he let me fly it once. It flew extremely well, despite being a .15. There was a .35 sized design that I'd probably have built, if I hadn't gone over to flying speed. I think it was called a "Toothpick"? Very similar, but bigger.

I do think the triple boom with a high A/R stabilator was a good idea, and the Super Swoop would have my vote, if you want an authentic old combat design. Too bad they were such a crappy kit. Much faster than you'd expect, a stock one was my first ever combat model. As an alternate, I'd try a Sneaker with 2"-4" longer wing, reversed tips and longer tailbooms.  ;D Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Online Howard Rush

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2015, 01:48:23 PM »
Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.
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Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2015, 02:38:15 PM »
Sneeker................
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Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2015, 03:16:17 PM »
"As an alternate, I'd try a Sneaker with 2"-4" longer wing, reversed tips and longer tailbooms."

Which is certainly one's prerogative, that is, to modify the old designs as one sees fit.  However, if the goal is to preserve and share "flying history", then it's no longer a Sneeker.

I modified my Combat Cat with a conventional nose pod (as opposed to using the kit's asymmetrical nose pod) and now regret it. Small thing for others, perhaps, but a lesson learned insofar as what I want to do with my hobby of vintage combat planes.
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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2015, 03:37:11 PM »
Okay Guys, I decided on the Sneeker for my next combat model.   I wrote to Mr. Baxter to get the ball rolling.

Mr. Wooten, how much would you charge me to sign the plans and send back?  I have a couple of plans signed by the designer already.  Will pass on to my son, when I go to the flying field in the sky with golf course grass, cool weather, slightly over cast, low humidity and home made lemonade. 

Rusty, it would be an honor to sign the plans for you!!!  It would be nice if you enclosed stamps for return postage..
NOTE: The prototype had 36" spars which were reduced to 30" in kit to save cost on wood and boxes, plus it made a tougher plane.. Also, if you happen to cover in plastic film cover the leading edge back to spars with silkspan, etc., grain span wise to help hold the airfoil.  BTW, everyone just calls me Riley.......

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2015, 07:42:53 PM »
Sneeker................

Jim, that doesn't look like a true Sneeker ... Looks to be constant cord ribs with tapered trailing edge added, or am I wrong??
RW

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #63 on: August 24, 2015, 07:52:40 PM »
Hey,

Anyone know when the ST G21 .35 was first made?

Riley?  First one I had was about 1969 (I think) but I believe they were around sometime before that.

Randy Cuberly

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Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2015, 09:00:10 PM »
When the G23-35 came to be will be an interesting discussion.

That question was a significant uncertainty at Doc Passen's Old Time Combat event back in the early 1990s, which had a 1961 airplane/engine cut-off date.  I was of the opinion that a full-blown G21-35 was nowhere near the horizon in 1961, but the decision was made to let the one that showed up play with the other older engines.  Of course, there was a decided speed advantage for the G21-35 flyer in comparison to the other competitors that were using genuine 1961 type engines.
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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #65 on: August 24, 2015, 11:23:15 PM »
Hey,

Anyone know when the ST G21 .35 was first made?

Riley?  First one I had was about 1969 (I think) but I believe they were around sometime before that.

Randy Cuberly



Never ran G21 .35 but think it was around 62, 63... Johnsons were king from about 58 to 64 then G21's became the favorite.  I think there was a little overlap in there but not sure.  Mears had one of the first I knew about and I think it was before 64.... After Hi sold out and Johnson quality went to pot I switched to Foxes.................RW

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2015, 04:56:42 AM »
Riley:

Curious: Why did you decide to switch to Foxes?

Because you did switch to Fox, as a kid I read/saw the pics, you won with 'em, so they HAD to be good, right?  My first combat engine was a Fox 36X, and I've liked them ever since, even working for Duke on account of my like of them.

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Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2015, 05:43:05 AM »
Riley..the sneeker is a true sneeker from Texas..optical illusion in the picture I guess..flightline original...I have 3....jim
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2015, 09:01:08 AM »


  I DID
rad racer

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #69 on: August 25, 2015, 09:36:21 AM »
Riley:

Curious: Why did you decide to switch to Foxes?

Because you did switch to Fox, as a kid I read/saw the pics, you won with 'em, so they HAD to be good, right?  My first combat engine was a Fox 36X, and I've liked them ever since, even working for Duke on account of my like of them.



Long story but I will hit high points... Bill James came to Lubbock and spent a few days, wanted to show me some really hot Foxes.. Turns out I had a 36X I had been playing with that was much better than his... Bill called Duke who insisted he bring me to Ft Smith for weekend and bring engine..... While there Duke offered to furnish me with engines if I would fly them.. I agreed on the condition he just send me parts to build several engines when needed.. That way I fitted them myself.. Duke didn't like it but I always told him in a joking way he made the best engine kits around. I always ran 25% nitro, settings were easy and I never broke one. Could have used more nitro, gone faster but never needed to......
RW

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2015, 10:09:45 AM »
Riley:

Thanks for sharing the story behind the scenes.

How amazing that your X was faster than Bill's!!  Why, when I met Bill in 1970, according to Bill, his old X engines were world-beaters at the time and were the ultimate X engines!  y1

Of course, even though I liked Bill tremendously, I took his stories with large doses of salt. But he WAS an excellent story teller!  He told me many combat tales that I'm sure were quite suspect, but his telling of it was superb, and I liked him for who he was and not for who he wished he was.

I typically ran Missile Mist 'cause it was free.  When Duke came out with 40-40 (40% nitro 40% methanol, 20% castor), I used that when the streamers were tied-on, or I was trying to impress the Super Tigre crowd that the X motor was still competitive (at the time).  I do recall breaking a modified crank or two, but that was probably due to me being a bit over-zealous grinding/lightening more than the nitro.

Since Bill's been mentioned, I hope you don't mind a few questions about him?

* Did you ever see his "Switchblade" combat plane, and if so, do you feel it was basically a remake of the Sneeker?

* Do you have any pictures of Bill, you and Bill, etc?

For years, I have been putting together a scrap book of my combat/model plane memories and trying to find pictures of people of influence in my combat interest and such as that. I have a few of Bill, but as yet I still have not found the model magazine that had the Nats article where you beat Al Baker (he was flying an ST powered Eegad2) for the Nats win. The picture had you shaking Al's hand. Both of you holding your airplanes, Al his Eegad2 and you your Vampire with a 36X on the nose.  Your win that year (and that picture) caused me to become a Fox 36X fan!

Here's an oldie of Bill with his Switchblade's stacked about in Larry Scarinzi's basement, circa 1964.

 

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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #71 on: August 25, 2015, 04:02:52 PM »
Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.

Happened in Spokane in early 60's. Guys flying combat with Streaks, etc.  Threw up a Johnson powered competition plane and they could not believe it..........

Offline EddyR

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2015, 07:17:54 AM »
Here are two very early 1950 combat models. I still have both.
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2015, 09:34:38 AM »
Andre,
I knew Bill quite well. He was a fun, very likeable guy and I enjoyed his company. You are right, his stories were what you might call a little stretched. I have no pics of he and I. My 36 in question was much better than his but all the Foxes I flew after that were the single BB cs. Can't answer about Switchblade but it did appear after he saw me flying Sneeker in Lubbock.  He tried to promote a match between me and Buckstaff at one nats for $ in early 80's but that is a whole new story.. We must get together sometime and hash out all the stories..........
RW

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2015, 11:21:21 AM »
Need to get these  stories down in print before they are forgotten.   I still remember you putting your arm around my shoulders at my first NATS in 64 after you finally got a kill on me.  I was so amazed at the people I met that year.   I still kick myself for not keeping a ledger of my CL happenings.
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Offline Larry Borden

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2015, 12:18:04 PM »
Riley, didn't we fly an exhibition match for the scouts at Reese?

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #76 on: August 26, 2015, 02:36:42 PM »
Riley, didn't we fly an exhibition match for the scouts at Reese?

To be honest Larry I don't remember it.  It sure could have happened as I knew the base commander at that time quite well and was out there on projects often, including flying.............

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #77 on: August 26, 2015, 03:40:16 PM »
Sneeker................

Jim, I don't mean this in a bad way but if that Sneeker came from a Flite Line kit something is wrong... 1st - too many ribs, spaced too close together, all the same length and no false ribs.  2nd -The front of the trailing edge is straight, not tapered as in the kit.  3rd - The stabilator has more narrow cord with longer span (higher AR)..  If it was supposed to be a Flite Line kit I am afraid it was a poor copy.. Do you know where you got it?
RW

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2015, 04:08:16 PM »
Steve flew his combat in Seattle before 1973, kinda like one of those remote Amazon jungle villages where they've never seen iPhones.

Actually, Steve flew his combat in '65 or earlier. My Sneaker with modified ST .35C went 116mph (without streamer) on fidy percent fuel and 9-8 Tornado nylon prop.

At the time, there were 7 or 8 controline or all-inclusive clubs with good CL participation. We had an association of MAC's in the Puget Sound area, with one or two over on the Olympic peninsula, and during the summers, we had 3-man teams from two clubs competing for points, as I recall. Not sure what happened at the end of the season with the points. I recall my club (Eastside Model Aero Club) competed against teams from a Burien club, a West Seattle club, and some others...Seattle Air Knockers, maybe also Seattle Skyraiders? I don't recall the Broadway Bod Busters fielding a team, but maybe.

I do recall "winning" a match against Henry Nelson in one of these team deals, when he couldn't get his Torp Greenhead/Voodoo started. Same contest, "The Sky was Crying" and I recall getting zapped several times by static buildup...not fun. That one was in West Seattle someplace. Anyway, Seattle was hardly the backwaters of combat, but I don't recall anybody going to the NATS, 'cause it was always too darned far away.  :P Steve
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2015, 05:07:10 PM »
Hi again Riley!

I was a young and thoughtless youth when I met him. For several months (during the time he was helping me learn how to build and fly combat planes), I'm sure I imposed over and over again on his time, invaded his home, drank his beverages, etc, yet, I really don't recall him ever being testy and rude with me.  He was single at the time, so hopefully I helped fill some time for him.  Anyway, he moved to the Houston area during the early 1970s and I lost touch.  However, during the early 80s, I traced him down through Betty Fox and gave him a call.  It was great hearing from him. During that first phone chat, I apologized for my youthful thoughtlessness and sincerely thanked him for his willingness to help me in the hobby as well as being a friend to me back then and overlooking my youthful ignorance. Even by the early 1980s, he was starting to have back issues.  Anyway, I sporadically stayed in touch with him over the next decade.  I think my last time to call was early 1990s.  An elderly sounding lady answered the phone so I asked to speak with Bill.  There was a pause, and the lady politely asked "who is this?".

I quickly introduced myself and told her I was an old model airplane friend of Bill's.

She then informed me that she was Bill's mother, and that Bill had passed away about a year ago.

Of course, I expressed my condolences to her.  I also spent a few minutes telling her how generous and patient her son was, and how he had befriended me and helped me so many years ago.  She sounded sincere as she thanked me for telling her about Bill.

Hanging up the phone there was a profound sense of loss within me. It had been my hope to "someday" hook up with Bill again, buy him a great (and belated) dinner, and get caught up on old times. But it was not to be.

Anyway, Larry Scarinzi remembers Bill being impressed with your Sneeker and the Switchblade is a derivative of it, and according to Larry, the Switchblade used a "modified Sneeker airfoil".  I saw the Switchblade blueprints at Bill's house a time or two, but by 1970, to me it was just one of "yesterdays" combat planes, and looked to be quite involved to build, so I wasn't interested in it for batch-building them for use as combat trainers.  Of course, now I wish I would have made a copy of the plans: Would'a, should'a, could'a!!

So, it should come as no surprise that "one of these days" I'm gonna' try to build a "Switchblade" as a flying tribute to our old bud Bill.

"We must get together sometime and hash out all the stories..........RW"

I would love that. I can tell you some of the stories that Bill told me, and you can either validate them or edit them!! More importantly, though, I would love to hear some of the experiences you've lived and things you've done within model airplanes/combat, as well as life.

In my "bucket list" is a visit to Lubbock to see Bobby Mears' "Combat Museum".  IF I get to do that, we will HAVE to get together and find a place to eat and shoot the bull and talk about how good you were and how good I was gonna' be!!  LL~

Andre
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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2015, 05:47:49 PM »
Andre:

All the time I was around him he was very upbeat and pleasant.  Most people don't know that I worked for a short time for Duke in 1961. Tried to get him to produce what later was the Mk4 basically. I was around Bill a lot at that time so got to know him quite well. After Duke bought Berkley he hired me to run and manage it but as his usual practice tried to micro manage and everything had to be his idea, so I did not stay long......................
RW

Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2015, 06:02:16 PM »
riley....the kit is flight line ...had no plans in the box, came from attic of local hobby shop along with a double demon also flightline...booms are stock from kit, stab is wrong as per my pictures from the other kit parts, spacing on booms is incorrect, i cut a new trailing edge straight on the front to replace the crap one in kit, ribs are all different lenght 6 with leadout cut outs 6 without, no half ribs in either kit.Not having the plans i spaced the ribs equally by the lenght of wing span.the picture on the kit was painted so i couldnt see through the covering to see the 1/2 ribs.The intent was good but the execution was a little off lol but you are the man...it actually flys exceptionally good even with its esthetic abnormalities.i'll try to get the plans before I build the next one. jim
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Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2015, 06:03:44 PM »
Another.....
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Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2015, 06:14:05 PM »

Duke? Micro-manage?  You're saying it had to be HIS idea or it wouldn't work?

Surely you jest.

LL~

Those of us in supervision went to great lengths at times to get Duke to "come up with the idea himself" so we could go ahead and implement what we already knew we needed to do.

I got myself in trouble with him a few times for taking the bull by the horns and making a production decision and implementing it without first checking in with him.  I knew I was in for it when he was popping his jaws before he spoke!!  

I will say that I really do have very fond memories of working at Fox Mfg. those few years.  However, I am very, very glad it was only for a short season in my life and I went on to be involved in other much more rewarding/satisfying endeavors.  I was young then, it seemed that days took longer and months/years were much longer than they are now.  Seemed I lived a lifetime in those few years I was at Fox.

Boy oh boy, we gotta' get together one of these days... better sooner than later.
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Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #84 on: August 26, 2015, 06:32:20 PM »
In continuum with the main topic of this thread:

Now that I have an understanding that the airplane the original designer/builder of said design built, compared to what was actually KITTED, brings up a pretty interesting topic for this vintage combat enthusiast, and illustrates that my efforts at preserving a model's history can now be two-fold (optional):

* Building a replica of the KITTED model.

* Building a replica of the ORIGINAL model as per notes/information from the original designer.

From my participation these few months here at Stunthanger, I've already learned:

* The prototype Voodoo's were different from the kitted Voodoo.

* The prototype Sneeker's were different than the kitted Sneeker.

I'm sure there's more!

IF I RAN THE WORLD:

Not only would there be well-attended (mandatory attendance!) Vintage Combat Festivals w/coordinated schedules all across the US at strategic locations, but there would also be a CONCOURS division for models that were built as faithfully as possible for the era it was designed.  The model would be judged on how faithfully it reproduces the construction and design, the covering material, finish, paint scheme appropriate to era, etc, and if it is appropriately powered, and so forth.  Putting on a demonstration flight would be optional but would not be judged.

Hm, that could be fun!

Wonder if I could sell a "Vintage Combat Festival" idea to the Gluedobbers?? (A central location, Tulsa, OK, great flying field w/amenities.)

Another thoughtful "hmmmmmm."

 y1




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Offline De Hill

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2015, 06:50:28 PM »
Not to change topics within a thread, but I have a Fox engine question since we have Fox engine experts here.  No wait, it is my thread, so I can do it.

I have owned and worked on hundreds of engines.  Different makes, versions, sizes, etc.  It something I enjoy as much as building and flying.

All the engines, except Fox Combat Special,  I have seen have a prop drive washer that either locks the crankshaft to the front bearing (like OS bearing engines) or uses the prop drive washer as a bearing surface with a shim.  (like OS FP engines)  These two methods keep the crankshaft in place.

What I noticed about the Fox Combat Special is that it had several dents in the back plate.  Examination shows the crank is not locked in place by the prop drive washer and can move back and forth.  The prop drive washer is the same size as the crank where it goes through the front bearing. I can't see how that is a good idea.  That allows more friction by the crank rubbing on the back plate and allows the rod to experience more move and wear.  

Can you help me understand this?  Why did Duke make it like that?

Thanks



Could the dents be caused by crashes?
De Hill

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2015, 06:51:31 PM »
Under normal tolerances/operation, the crank does not rub the back plate.  In other words, the pull of the propeller (IF it is a TRACTOR propeller) pulls the crank to the front of the engine, thus the connecting rod goes with it.  (For reasons mentioned below.)

Off the top of the head there would be a couple of factors that cause the connecting rod to rub the back plate:

* The most common: Use of an electric starter.  (These weren't in universal use during the Fox "hay day" years.) Jamming an electric starter against the floating arrangement of a Fox crankshaft will likely press the rear of the connecting rod against the back plate.

* Mis-machined: There is a very, VERY, small offset (much less than 1 degree if I recall correctly) machined into the case to ever so slightly coerce the connecting rod to the FRONT of the crank pin during rotation. Thus, instead of the stroke being a perfect 90 degrees to the crank centerline, there would be, say, 90.050 degrees. IF the crankcase was inadvertently machined nearly a perfect 90 degrees to the crank, or IF it was negative (less than 90), THEN you will get con rod flutter (if a near perfect 90 degrees) or back pushing (if less than 90 degrees) and under those conditions it can leave slight rub marks on the back plate.

If the connecting rod is fluttering or back pushing, no real biggie.

IF it's being forced into the back plate by use of an electric starter, that can be a biggie. Worse case scenarios of this I've seen are actual metal shavings inside the case. The older Fox engines simply were not designed with concessions to being abused by an electric starter.

EDIT: Well DUH De!!! I didn't take CRASHING into account!!!

EDIT 2:

Wait a minute Rusty, you're saying the THRUST washer is the same diameter as the CRANK?  Can you get a picture of that so I can better visualize it?  Thanks.

EDIT 3: Can't help you on the Barry Baxter plans... don't know.

Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2015, 07:00:56 PM »
Do I remember correctly? Did a Flite Streak finish high at the NATs sometime around the early 60s? That would be in fast combat.


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Truthfully I don't really know the answer to that question but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.   In 1959 and 60 there were a lot of good combat fliers using flite Streaks (built very light, with beefed up fuselages) and light case Johnsons running case pressure that did very well around the Midwest.  Several of these guys were from KC Flying Eagles (same as me).  In fact I actually won a good sized contest in Witchata KS in 1959 or 1960 about 50 entries in single elimination with just that combination against several hot shots flying much faster airplanes.  Fortunately (for me I guess) Riley and most of the Texas crowd wasn't there.  2nd place was a side winder type airplane that looked very much like a Quicker except for a thicker airfoil and a slightly longer tail section.  My 75 year old brain dosen't remember names any more.  The flite Streak could fly at a reasonable speed and was much easier to fly well in a combat match.  That was very important unless of course you were flying against one of the real Hot Shots like Riley, or Carpenter.  Reliable runs and good starts were just as important then as they are now.  Most matches were won on Air Time...Not so different than now.

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2015, 07:22:50 PM »
Okay, back to the thread topic.  Does anyone know if the Barry Baxter Sneeker plans are the same as Riley created?  

I plan to use all items that are the same age.  I have a Fox 35x, 36x needle and ball bearing, ST 35C and ST 35 G21, Johnson 35, KB Stallion 35.  

I have silk, Fox metal bell crank, Perfect lead outs, perfect slotted 4-40 bolts.  I have perfect cloth hinges.  I have some 1960 pennies for wing weight.  



Rusty,
I'm looking at a copy of Barry Baxter's Sneeker plans and they show a 34 and 5/8 inch span tip to tip.  They do show two sets of tail booms; a short set called the old version (off the plans) and a longer set called the newer version.

They show a Johnson Combat Special and metal tank in the wing.

I assume from what Riley said earlier that's the kit version.  No??

Randy Cuberly
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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2015, 07:48:39 PM »
riley....the kit is flight line ...had no plans in the box, came from attic of local hobby shop along with a double demon also flightline...booms are stock from kit, stab is wrong as per my pictures from the other kit parts, spacing on booms is incorrect, i cut a new trailing edge straight on the front to replace the crap one in kit, ribs are all different lenght 6 with leadout cut outs 6 without, no half ribs in either kit.Not having the plans i spaced the ribs equally by the lenght of wing span.the picture on the kit was painted so i couldnt see through the covering to see the 1/2 ribs.The intent was good but the execution was a little off lol but you are the man...it actually flys exceptionally good even with its esthetic abnormalities.i'll try to get the plans before I build the next one. jim

Jim, It's no biggie and I am sure it flies just as good.  The ribs are definitely Flite Line but notice there are only 6 for each side. 2 are covered with 1/16" planking, the other 4 are covered with covering only. In between are 1/2 or false ribs.  Actually these were strip false ribs very much like I beam and should have been on the die cut sheets.  Just keep them flying and have fun...........................
RW

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2015, 09:16:56 PM »
Rusty,
I'm looking at a copy of Barry Baxter's Sneeker plans and they show a 34 and 5/8 inch span tip to tip.  They do show two sets of tail booms; a short set called the old version (off the plans) and a longer set called the newer version.

They show a Johnson Combat Special and metal tank in the wing.

I assume from what Riley said earlier that's the kit version.  No??

Randy Cuberly


The kit spars, leading edge and trailing edge are 30".... That I am sure of but thought the tips were 3" for a total span of 36"..  All tooling, art work and etc.
was lost in the fire in 07.  When I get back home I will see if I have any plans in my collection.........
RW

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2015, 09:31:15 PM »
"All tooling, art work and etc. was lost in the fire in 07."

Oh how sickening to read. I guess that means many more of your historical artifacts were likewise lost?

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Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2015, 09:44:56 PM »
"All tooling, art work and etc. was lost in the fire in 07."

Oh how sickening to read. I guess that means many more of your historical artifacts were likewise lost?


YES, old kit collection, mag. collection from early 50's to 07, plus a few from boyhood of 40's and engine collection, both old and new..........
I had them all stored in a locked office at Lone Star Balsa.. That really hurt more than the rest of the equipment and inventory.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2015, 09:58:42 PM »
Wow Riley...that is truly a loss.  Like losing a chunk of your life!

Sorry my friend.  Your memory is a very important part of the history of Combat.  Have you considered writing it down...it would be treasured by most of the old combat guys I'm sure. 

Bob Hunt is doing a similar thing with Stunt.  I know it would not be an easy thing but there are probably guys that would be happy to help with some of the scribe work!  I doubt that there is anyone else around that was there for as much of it as you!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Dan Berry

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2015, 10:09:16 PM »
Truthfully I don't really know the answer to that question but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.   In 1959 and 60 there were a lot of good combat fliers using flite Streaks (built very light, with beefed up fuselages) and light case Johnsons running case pressure that did very well around the Midwest.  Several of these guys were from KC Flying Eagles (same as me).  In fact I actually won a good sized contest in Witchata KS in 1959 or 1960 about 50 entries in single elimination with just that combination against several hot shots flying much faster airplanes.  Fortunately (for me I guess) Riley and most of the Texas crowd wasn't there.  2nd place was a side winder type airplane that looked very much like a Quicker except for a thicker airfoil and a slightly longer tail section.  My 75 year old brain dosen't remember names any more.  The flite Streak could fly at a reasonable speed and was much easier to fly well in a combat match.  That was very important unless of course you were flying against one of the real Hot Shots like Riley, or Carpenter.  Reliable runs and good starts were just as important then as they are now.  Most matches were won on Air Time...Not so different than now.

Randy Cuberly

Names... would Jim Berry ring a bell out of Wichita?

Offline jim welch

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #95 on: August 26, 2015, 10:11:44 PM »
riley...the spars and le are 30 inches like you said..I just glued the tips together and they are 2 1/2 inches for 35 inch span..box says 35 also...loosing all your stuff is terrible and the loss of lonestar has been a blow to all of us as well.I've still got my 1962 voodoo short boom and johnson cs which I have on a Demon.Got 7 voodoos now also long and short boom..If you do find the plans to the sneeker would be real interested in a set..thanks jim H^^
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #96 on: August 26, 2015, 10:42:30 PM »
Not to change topics within a thread, but I have a Fox engine question since we have Fox engine experts here.  No wait, it is my thread, so I can do it.

I have owned and worked on hundreds of engines.  Different makes, versions, sizes, etc.  It something I enjoy as much as building and flying.

All the engines, except Fox Combat Special,  I have seen have a prop drive washer that either locks the crankshaft to the front bearing (like OS bearing engines) or uses the prop drive washer as a bearing surface with a shim.  (like OS FP engines)  These two methods keep the crankshaft in place.

What I noticed about the Fox Combat Special is that it had several dents in the back plate.  Examination shows the crank is not locked in place by the prop drive washer and can move back and forth.  The prop drive washer is the same size as the crank where it goes through the front bearing. I can't see how that is a good idea.  That allows more friction by the crank rubbing on the back plate and allows the rod to experience more move and wear.  

Can you help me understand this?  Why did Duke make it like that?

Thanks

Andre commented on the concern for the crankshaft rubbing the rear cover ...

For what it's worth, Duke wrote that ball bearings had less starting friction than his needle bearings, but, once they're running, performance is virtually identical.  I certainly got the same top end from both.

But the ball bearing engines really suffered if you planted the engine in the ground, then pulled it out and attempted to restart it after a quick flushing.  Ball bearings really, really don't like dirt and/or sand!


Dennis





Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline riley wooten

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #97 on: August 26, 2015, 10:46:57 PM »
riley...the spars and le are 30 inches like you said..I just glued the tips together and they are 2 1/2 inches for 35 inch span..box says 35 also...loosing all your stuff is terrible and the loss of lonestar has been a blow to all of us as well.I've still got my 1962 voodoo short boom and johnson cs which I have on a Demon.Got 7 voodoos now also long and short boom..If you do find the plans to the sneeker would be real interested in a set..thanks jim H^^

Thanks Jim!! I thought they were 3" but you have to be right.  I'm sure they had to wind up that way to fit a certain wood size.... That is one of the problems all mfg. had in trying to produce a design in kit form and still make a profit ....
RW

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2015, 04:54:35 PM »
Names... would Jim Berry ring a bell out of Wichita?

Yes, Jim Berry does ring a bell but I'm afraid it's simply been too long to make a complete connection.
Just out of curiosity is that your father or brother?  If so is he still around.  I remember he was somewhat older than me...I would have been about 19 or 20 at the time, and I'm 75 now.

I was with the KC Flying Eagles Club then and usually traveled and flew with Wayne Merriwether and his brother Ron and their Father Byron Merriwether.  Byron was kind of a "Dad" to all the younger guys in the KC Flying Eagles for a long time.

Unfortunately a lot of those times all seem to run together now!

The Wichihawks used to run some great contests with some terrific Custom Trophies...I still have a bunch of them...They are in fact about the only ones I've kept over the years

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Dan Berry

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Re: What is the best vintage combat plane?
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2015, 05:16:23 PM »
Yes, Jim Berry does ring a bell but I'm afraid it's simply been too long to make a complete connection.
Just out of curiosity is that your father or brother?  If so is he still around.  I remember he was somewhat older than me...I would have been about 19 or 20 at the time, and I'm 75 now.

I was with the KC Flying Eagles Club then and usually traveled and flew with Wayne Merriwether and his brother Ron and their Father Byron Merriwether.  Byron was kind of a "Dad" to all the younger guys in the KC Flying Eagles for a long time.

Unfortunately a lot of those times all seem to run together now!

The Wichihawks used to run some great contests with some terrific Custom Trophies...I still have a bunch of them...They are in fact about the only ones I've kept over the years

Randy Cuberly
Jim was my Dad. He would've been leaning on 27 yrs old then. We lost him in '71. I don't know if he was doing the WW! profiles in Wichita. He might've been flying with Duane Life then.
I was born there in '57 so I have little memory from then, only anecdotes.


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