Top Flite Gieseke Nobler kit tips ??

[Bill Little]

OK, Guys, I have built a couple Green Box Top Flite Noblers, but never the Gieseke kit.  Any tips??  I am planning on using 1/16th" ply doublers in the nose. And mounting the bellcrank in the "floating Mode".  Anything else suggested?  Covering will be Polyspan and Aaron plans a tribute paint scheme due to the passing of Bob. Power will be a Fox "Super" .35 Stunt fitted and assembled by Marvin Denny just before his  passing. ABC P/S, stuffer back plate, Hi Zoot crank from Randy and Hemi head.  Will use a 4 1/2oz. medium wedge since the inside dimensions of the tank compartment is 1 3/4" wide.  Did Bob ever use an aluminum landing gear?

Just looking for anything to add to the durability of the model.  Since I have seen the kit fly in Classic even though it is not exactly "legal" and it isn't thought of in Nos.30 I figured I would put it in the Open Forum!

Thanks!
Bill

[peabody]

Hi Bill
I would avoid the wire gear provided....use aluminum instead.
I have witnessed three TF kit Noblers eject the nose upon landing, due, I believe, to the poor design of the gear mount.

Have fun

[john gunn]

I am glad you have a SUPER STUNT 35,they are a great motors, my motor will power a geskie nobler this coming spring, it will also be used in the moon  brothers geskie nobler.  It is a good motor, but has its limits.  The size of the plane,the weight and the mind of the person using the FOX 35

[bob whitney]

 what is a ZOOT CRANK

[Randy Cuberly]

 what is a ZOOT CRANK

Hi Bob,
It's "Hi Zoot" and it's a special crank for Fox 35's designed and marketed by Randy Smith.  Basically it's a little heavier in the flywheel and the right places to eliminate some of the vibration inherent in the iron piston of the Fox 35.  It may have some other features that I'm not aware of but the one I have seems to run significantly better and smoother.  Of course there are other typical mods on the engine and it's tough to decide what really makes it work better but better it is!  Much better.  The basic engine is a L&J Fox done quite a while ago by Larry Foster and I added the Hi Zoot crank at a later time.  Not Cheap...I probably have about $250.00 invested in the thing altogether but if you want a Fox 35 that really runs like a Fox should, I guess it's worth it.
If I was going to start one again I would just order the Hi Zoot Fox from Randy Smith and get the package all at once.  Like I said they are not cheap but run very well and are very reliable. 
I also have a "Super Fox 35" with AAC piston and sleeve and all the other trimmings except the Hi Zoot Crank.  It doean't run quite as well as the Hi Zoot engine but weighs only 6 oz with a tongue muffler on it.

Hope that answers your question.

Randy Cuberly

[Randy Cuberly]

Over a span of about 30 years I have built no less than 8 Gieseke Noblers.  Only two were built from the Top Flite Kit several were scratch built and the last one was was built from one of the Moon's Kits.  All things considered they were all very good fliers.  

The last one was the best...probably because it was powered by one of Randy Smiths Aero Tigers.  The power just doesn't get any better than that in my opinion.

It was built fron start to finish in less than two weeks because the Fury I had been working on for VSC had an accident during the final build stages and got most of a bottle of CA dumped inside it...bottle split...Not a pretty sight and the words uttered by me were worse I'm sure.  At any rate the G. Nobler turned out to be a blessing in disguise and and a great flier at 36oz with the Aero Tiger.

My only advice is Keep it light and make sure the controls are very free...4 inch Bellcrank and adjustable control horn on elevator.  Make the flaps stiff by covering with a couple of layers of 1oz glass cloth.  I used blocks of very light wood instead of the molded sheet fuselage.
If you can use a AeroTiger you really don't need the 1/16 plywood doublers use 1/32 and cover the entire nose with 1/2 oz glass cloth.  very light and strong.  The aluminum gear is a good idea but the wire gear on the firewall works about as good.

Randy Cuberly

[Bill Little]

Hi Randy,

You basically outlined my building techniques.  Glassed nose, cowl and flaps.  I have a couple Aero Tigers, but we are choosing to use the "Super" Fox. 

I plan to cover the "wood" with Jap tissue, saving my good silkspan for some wings!  Any thoughts there?

Thanks, Guys!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Chris McMillin]

Bill,
I think the fuselage holes in the rear fuselage aren't worth it, I skipped them on mine.
Chris...

[Randy Cuberly]

Bill,
I think the fuselage holes in the rear fuselage aren't worth it, I skipped them on mine.
Chris...

I think the cut outs in the fuselage are worthwhile if you're using a light engine like a Fox 35.  It's easy to build the G. nobler tail heavy with the very tall fuselage at the rear and a light engine.  It is important to use some diagonal sticks in the rear of the fuselage at the top and bottom for torsional stiffness.  In fact making the fuselage a little wider at the rear to accomodate a Tom Morris adjustable control horn is worthwhile and actually helps torsional stiffness.  Good straight grained light wood back there is very important as is a light stab and elevator.

Randy Cuberly

[john gunn]

well said Randy, the FOX is a good motor with the proper application of the right plane.  I have not tried the Randy motor.  Terry Tucker has one and I am waiting for his flights to get a good opinion for this motor

[SteveMoon]

I would not use aluminum gear. Use the provided 1/8 music wire gear, or bend your
own. The music wire fear are much lighter and Bob used this style so that there would
be a little give on landing; kind of a shock absorber effect. This works in conjunction
with long tail wheel wire. If you make the tail wheel wire too short it will have a tendency
to bounce on landing. Otherwise, build it the way intended in the kit replacing any wood
that feels too heavy.

Steve

[peabody]

The wire gear in Steve's ARC is terrific!

[Bill Little]

Thanks for all the tips, guys!  Steve, I will definitely use the wire gear.  We have two partial Top Flite kits so we can build one plane from the parts.  I will be using laser cut wing ribs from you

Bob was so successful for so long with this plane that it will serve as a great "return" model for Aaron.  He can use it in Classic/Nos.30 plus PAMPA class.

Thanks, again!
Bill

[Ward Van Duzer]

Bill,

Per 'The MAN" hisself, do not carve rounded wing tips. Spoke to him on the phone when I was building my 'scratch'. he strongly suggested building up the tips to the proper shape using sheet balsa. Add triangular supports from the tip to the final rib. Cover with tissue. This will create approx 45 degree tips. Better handling in the wind!

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Got it?

Ward-O
                   

[Bill Little]

Bill,

Per 'The MAN" hisself, do not carve rounded wing tips. Spoke to him on the phone when I was building my 'scratch'. he strongly suggested building up the tips to the proper shape using sheet balsa. Add triangular supports from the tip to the final rib. Cover with tissue. This will create approx 45 degree tips. Better handling in the wind!

 <::::::::::::||:::::::::::::::>

Got it?

Ward-O
                   

Got it Ward-O!  Thanks a lot.

Bill