AMA Dues Increase

[Mike Keville]

See pg. 13, July issue of 'M.A.' -- 2016 dues increase of $17 for Open & Senior Citizen members.  Also going up: FAI license (+$25) plus club fees, club insurance and others.

Can't speak for others on a fixed-income, low-budget existence, but for me this may be a deal-breaker.

Comments?
 

[david beazley]

The article said they had been talking about doing it for some time, first I heard about it.  What is AMA doing about trimming overhead and expenses? 

[Mike Griffin]

I saw it to Mike.  After this year I am done.  We only have one member in our club that flys contests.  I doubt if we will be affiliated with AMA next year.

Mike

[Mike Keville]

Those who fly in competition are of course held hostage.  For those of us who no longer compete, I wonder how many others will be "voting with their feet".

[Jim Kraft]

My problem is I only have the R/C field 26 miles away to fly at and they require AMA license to fly there. I use to have two private places to fly. One was only a half mile from my house. It is now a wheat field. The other was a private park that changed management and does not allow anything. I will probably bite the bullet for one more year. At least gas is down for a little while. But even that is creeping up again. Groceries are getting out of site. Gas went from $1,85 last year to $2.59 now. At least it is not $4.00 again like it was 2 or 3 years ago.

[Wayne J. Buran]

I would have thought that after the huge influx of new park flyer and drone/helicopter flyers that the AMA has been romancing  they would announce a dues reduction, not! Cut my worthless magazine and save me some money.

[Mike Keville]

"Our" Academy of Multirotors & ARFs claims a current membership of 140,000 to 180,000 (depending on whose column you're reading).  If so, the $17 dues increase would net an additional $2,380,000 to $3,060,000....less the "comps" and Junior memberships.

Not bad for the Q.D.O. ("Quadcopter Defense Organization").

[JoeJust]

The AMA can not drop the magazine to all members.  The reason is the higher the subscription number the more add space sells for advertising therein.
Next with the "graying" of AMA, like myself who get the AMA membership at a reduced price, the less dues income, ergo an increase in dues for all of you that are not "senior Citizens" has to increase to help that drain of money. On top of that, who really gives a rat's patoot for all the adds for , for lack of a word, Drones. And now there is even a bunch of articles geared that way to admit previously non members into the fold so they can get the latest ad or info on how to fly the new toy?

I got my issue today at 9AM, it went into the trash about 3PM.  Even my favorite column has been shrunk. I suppose to get more room for Quad Copter adds. Conversly, "Aero Modeler" mag (while being a bit pricy) has very few adds and takes well over a week to digest.
Enough, "Write no more Cladius, write no more", line taken from a BBC series about the first group of Roman Heads of State.
 

[Mike Keville]

For true modelers the AMA has outlived its usefulness.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Mike Griffin]

I totally agree Mike.

[Garf]

I don't like the idea of subsidizing the cost of insuring drones, 3/4 scale monsters, and turbo jets. This is getting too much.

[wwwarbird]

 If my club didn't require an AMA membership to fly I would probably skip the re-up.

[Mike Keville]

Wonder where the money is going?  Among other places, this quote from Keith Sessions' column in the July issue:

"We have recently hired a public relations firm to help promote model aviation in the media and to limit bad press caused by irresponsible operations by nonmembers . . . Neither of these expenses existed in 2003 and they will likely increase in the years ahead."  (end quote)

[Mike Keville]

If my club didn't require an AMA membership to fly I would probably skip the re-up.

===========================================
I hear ya', Wayne.  My club requires it too,  But since I don't fly anymore, it's a non-issue here....I'll just become a "guest member" rather than help subsidize the Academy of Multirotors & ARFs.

[Roger Vizioli]

I don't like the idea of subsidizing the cost of insuring drones, 3/4 scale monsters, and turbo jets. This is getting too much.

Looks like a prime opportunity for a "smart" insurance company (who already has the admin and support staff in place)
to take on a new line of customers.
Comments welcome.

Roger V.

[Randy Cuberly]

Looks like a prime opportunity for a "smart" insurance company (who already has the admin and support staff in place)
to take on a new line of customers.
Comments welcome.

Roger V.

The oblem with that is that Insurance Companies work on actuarial tables and statistics and I seriously doubet tha any reliable ones exist for model flying!  Very expensive to develop on a small community of people like Modelers!

Randy Cuberly

[Steve Helmick]

The Bass Fishing Club I belonged to got annual insurance from a local agency, to protect the club in case of an accident. Sort of like "site insurance". Each member had to provide a copy of their boat insurance policy. Plus, it was $300k for "slow boats" and $500k for "fast boats", at least it was in 2001 when I dropped out of the club and started flying contests more. And we pretty much decided which category our boat fell into.

This makes it seem like it might well be possible to provide your club with a copy of your homeowner's/renter's policy, maybe with some extra liability level requirements set by your club? Since AMA insurance is "secondary", they would stand behind your homer's/renter's insurance anyway. Talk to your insurance agent about it.   
Steve

[Mike Griffin]

There has got to be some sort of viable alternative to this.  I think our club is going to have to decide pretty quick whether we want to be affiliated with AMA or not. Other than one member, none of us fly contests any more.  Our field is located within the confines of New Orleans City Park and in reality anyone can go there and fly whether they have even heard of AMA or not and we cannot stop them. 

At one time, I personally belonged to two clubs, AMA and PAMPA.  We live on Social Security and I had to drop something so one club and PAMPA had to be cut because of "having to belong to AMA".  Personally I thought PAMPA was/is a great organization for CL hobbyist.

I do not think our club situation or personal situations are unique and I am sure there are many out there faced with the same upcoming decisions to make.

Mike G.

[dennis lipsett]

We have come a long way from my first card as a junior from the AMA at $50 cents for the year. but that was over 60 years ago. so to be fair the AMA dues have not kept up with inflation as far as its pricing goes.
The dues are not going up because of drones exclusively but there are a whole lot of programs that we don't follow that they have to participate in simply to keep guaranteeing everybody the right to continue flying. R/C, that is, as we are tethered flight and aren't on any ones radar. We don't count except in the total membership count.
The magazine is to the best of my knowledge completely self supporting and dues are not applied to its publication.
But I question whether I should even bother getting a license anymore even to support the AMA when we like free flight are the forgotten children  of the organization. The magazine is superfluous to my needs, the protection is unneeded, and I feel that at least for now it is simply a waste of money.

Dennis

[EddyR]

 I was not going to sign up this year but I had promised to support a new contest this spring so I signed up late and got the digital edition of the magazine. I have flown in several contest the last few years but did not practice at all. I enjoy sport flying and do not need AMA to that as I can fly as a guest at the local field if any one ever checked. I have local spots to fly that are paved and flat. Time to sell off all those old custom built ST motors.
Ed

[Sean McEntee]

So an academic question:  What would it take to "secede" from the AMA?  Would it be a good idea? 

[Mike Griffin]

Sean that is what I was alluding to in my post when I said there has to be a viable alternative.   I cannot speak for PAMPA, I had to drop out because of not enough money to go around, but I thought they might be an option but maybe not.  I have no idea what it would take to form an alternative organization to AMA but I wish somebody could come up with one.   

Mike

[Sean McEntee]

   Well the way I see it there would need to be a separate organization for all of control line--I dont think it would work with just PAMPA becoming its own governing body due to lack of numbers.  However I'm almost sure the sense of misrepresentation on the part of the AMA is being felt all around.

   It would also take some sort of equal insurance coverage for continued access to model fields requiring AMA membership. that would probably be the toughest piece to work out.

   Lastly this new organization would be totally on its own for things like national and international competition.  That might be a good thing.  It could bring back the nomadic venue of the past as opposed to the national competition being stuck in one place year after year.

   I'm sure that there are more angles to this that I am not aware of, but if all the other CL SIGs were onboard, a "CL coup" could work, in my opinion.

[JoeJust]

Breaking sway from the AMA has been tried. Anyone remember the SFA?  The Sport Fliers Assoc. was basically an insurance Company. AMA took them to court and won an injunction (as I remember) and that breakaway club wilted in just a few days.
Joe

[Douglas Ames]

I walked my magazine from the mailbox to the trash can.
Glanced at the cover and threw it in with all the other junk mail.

Maybe if they set the dues rate according to what model type or group (ie. - Control line, all classes) you fly?
Giant scale R/C should pay more than say, Indoor free flight, etc.
Specific insurance for each type/group. An AMA license specific for Control line only, etc.

[Brett Buck]

Breaking sway from the AMA has been tried. Anyone remember the SFA?  The Sport Fliers Assoc. was basically an insurance Company. AMA took them to court and won an injunction (as I remember) and that breakaway club wilted in just a few days.

   Unfortunately it was far longer and more convoluted than that. SFA sued AMA first, AMA countersued, it all dragged on for more than 6 years in the court system. Towards the end, after having SFA suit failed and the AMA won, SFA (Sport Fliers Association) was dissolved. At essentially, at the same time, the SFA (Sport Fliers of America) was formed with the same people, plans, operating methods. The court saw through this immediately, said it was "the same", and that did indeed finally end it.

   No one and neither organization exactly distinguished itself during all this. I expect that a separate organization could be formed without the AMA taking any overt action to damage it; however, I think people are greatly underestimating the difficulties of getting insurance, the lack of *any* connection with the NAA/FAA/FAI (since the AMA is the representative, not whatever other organization you define), and the difficulty in dealing with local government and others that are already tied in with the AMA. I believe the SFA suit (whatever motivated it ) was about the fact that existing sites with AMA insurance would not recognize and permit SFA members from using the site - you had to be an AMA member. I think the argument was about "monopolies" or something similar, and it got *nowhere*.

     I also think you want to consider whether you want separate CL rates. I think that this reduces the risk pool to maybe 1/100th of what it would be and the resulting insurance would be astronomical compared to what you pay now, if you could get it at all. The largest payout of AMA insurance ever was for a CL accident and that seems to have led to the loss of the original carrier and the AMA becoming self-insured for a while. The model rocketry organization, that has a FAR better insurance claim record than CL, had all sorts of problems finding anyone that would insure them.

    Brett

[Mike Keville]

Clarification:

My beef is not with the dues increase itself, but rather with what they'd do with it.  You needn't be a genius to see that our money is being spent on promoting and defending UAVs ("drones", multirotors, whatever).  Those gadgets are not model airplanes.  Some (many?) of us object to our dues money being used in that fashion.

I've been an AMA member since 1950...minus a few years during military service.  It may be time to go.

[Sean McEntee]

Clarification:

My beef is not with the dues increase itself, but rather with what they'd do with it. 

I know Mikey, which is why I started the discussion.  I think a separate organization would better serve the control line community.  However, as Brett pointed out, there are some pretty massive hurdles to overcome.

[Brett Buck]

\
My beef is not with the dues increase itself, but rather with what they'd do with it.  You needn't be a genius to see that our money is being spent on promoting and defending UAVs ("drones", multirotors, whatever).  Those gadgets are not model airplanes.  Some (many?) of us object to our dues money being used in that fashion.

   All seems strangely familiar, too, doesn't it?

    Brett

[john e. holliday]

This usually comes up every so often and it is discussed and cussed.   Trying to find an insurance company that would insure our contests and fun fly's.   Also remember there are a lot of flying fields that require AMA license in order to use them.   Shawnee Mission Park of Lenexa KS is one of them.  I know of a few other fields around the country also.   Oh, I go use a ball diamond once in a while when it is not being used.   But, I have never let my license lapse as it gives me access to flying fields as a guest,  pit areas at contests/fun flies and a source to look up other members via AMA.   Yes todays cost is a lot compared to my first license I had to get to fly in my first contest at Stanley KS Air Field.  It was a whopping $3.00 as I was still a Junior.   Big money for me at the time.   So I will renew as I guess I one of the rare ones that reads Model Aviation almost cover to cover.  How do I thank the FF and CL people that still have articles to read.   Hopefully once the industries have saturated the market with multi rotors and associated equipment, what next.   I don't see the rocket people complaining.   By the way how many kept up with the FF Indoor NATS?   Waiting for the daily reports from NATS News on CL, if AMA finds authorsfor the events.

[Bob Matiska]

John, I agree with your comments. I read MA every month, looking for information that will make me a better, safer, builder and flyer. I read the columns by our pres, my VP, the executive director, and many others. I think most of us will acknowledge that the AMA insurance policy has been important to the establishment of flying sites. Love it or despise it, the AMA is all we got.

As I pointed out on the other forum, the dues increase doesn't take effect until September 15th. We can renew from July 1st through September 14th at the old rate, plus we can renew for one year or two at that time. I'll renew at the senior rate, since I'll meet that requirement next year, and I'll renew my son in Florida at the current open rate. And yes, I'll renew us for two years.

BTW, I googled Sport Flyers Association and quickly found a link on RC Universe to a long explanation of what happened back then. It was written by the AMA, but I thought it was interesting reading. I don't know if there's a similar dissertation anywhere from the folks who were associated with SFA.

Bob in NEPA

[peabody]

The Academy has spent over a MILLION DOLLARS in legal to keep up with the FAA and other Governmental agencies' ever changing rules. Drones are a big part, but there are other things the get the Feds cranked up.
As I recall it's been over 10 years since the dues were raised.

I'll keep paying .........the AMA preserves my right to fly.

Have fun!

[Will Hinton]

I love anything that flies except biting bugs, so I also read the MA from cover to cover.  I also agree with the last three posts and everything said in them.  Whine and snivel all you want, but at least get your information complete and don't just zero in on the one single aspect you disagree with - drones are not the only thing AMA is dealing with.  As far as insurance, just try to get a policy with the coverage they provide for less than the present and soon to be increased dues.
I don't even compete any more, though plan to again some day, but will continue to belong.

[Tim Wescott]

So, old people are cranky because times have changed and prices have gone up since they were born?

Well, it looks like some things stay the same!

I'll be paying my dues, and being thankful that I can still fly CL with stuff that's cheap because people fly RC, and that I can still fly RC fixed-wing because the feds haven't outlawed it along with quadcopter "drones".

I may even build a quadcopter, eventually.

[Phillip Kenney]

I joined AMA originally in about 1970 and have been a member ever since. Even when my main emphasis in the hobby was 1/4 scale cars or racing boats I paid my dues. The next contest I enter will be my first so some would say I have wasted all my dues $$$ as I have never competed in any sanctioned AMA contest. I say you are welcome for my donation to keeping the hobby alive so others can compete.  Somehow I think I can find the $3 a month extra to budget for this year to cover next years increase.

[Mike Griffin]

How long has AMA been in existence?

[Dave_Trible]

1936

[Mike Griffin]

Thank you Dave

[Steve Helmick]

Before I ever belonged to AMA (joined NY day '63 at the Strat-O-Bat's "Misery Meet"), I belonged to WAM in '61. We had to belong to WAM to be a member of the Antelope Valley Tailwinds and fly on Rosemond Dry Lake, a dry lake adjacent to MUROC Dry Lake, aka Edwards AFB.

So...WAM was formed and essentially competed with AMA. When, how, why, and who created it???

Did WAM accept AMA membership to fly in WAM contests?  Did AMA accept WAM membership and insurance to fly in AMA contests?  Probably not.

Some will understand that AMA is a member of our National Aero Club, and thus a member of the FAI. If you want to compete in World Champs, you gotta be an AMA member and an FAI member. Basically, everybody has their hand out, to be frank. No offense intended, Mr. McCune!  Steve

[Randy Cuberly]

The Academy has spent over a MILLION DOLLARS in legal to keep up with the FAA and other Governmental agencies' ever changing rules. Drones are a big part, but there are other things the get the Feds cranked up.
As I recall it's been over 10 years since the dues were raised.

I'll keep paying .........the AMA preserves my right to fly.

Have fun!

Well Peabody, you make a very good point about spending a million dollars of our hard earned money on something that doesn't concern Control Line in the slightest.  However we still pay the same amount of dues that those R/C thumb twiddlers pay and the quad copter idiots that don't even belong to the AMA and likely never will!

Maybe CL dues could be amortized by the number of members and the amount of money the AMA spends on CL...real close to ZIP I bet!

Randy Cuberly

[Mike Griffin]

Great point Randy.

Mike

[Tim Wescott]

Well Peabody, you make a very good point about spending a million dollars of our hard earned money on something that doesn't concern Control Line in the slightest.

United we stand.  Divided we fall.

[Robert Zambelli]

The Academy has spent over a MILLION DOLLARS in legal to keep up with the FAA and other Governmental agencies' ever changing rules. Drones are a big part, but there are other things the get the Feds cranked up.
As I recall it's been over 10 years since the dues were raised.

I'll keep paying .........the AMA preserves my right to fly.

Have fun!

So, without the ama, you don't have the right to fly?
That might just be the most stupid comment I've ever heard in a model aviation website.
Oh, except of course when someone said that jane fonda should be declared a hero for her work in Vietnam.

Bob Z.

[Larry Renger]

So bite the bullet and get a life membership. Let them then raise the rates all they like. Are you in for this hobby for life or not?

[peabody]

Bob...although I have very little in the way of assets, I kinda like the stuff and hope to keep it. I don't want to lose anything because my toy aeroplane. Injured someone or damaged something. I also enjoy flying at a couple of great, AMA flying sites.

I see the AMA and it's battles with the FAA and Homeland Security and all manner of other groups trying to prohibit adult fun with wings as the only realistic avenue of defense.

Have fun.....

[mike londke]

I pay that monthly to have a nice dinner with my wife. If that's what it costs to fly toy airplanes in a few contests a year so be it. Samuel is coming up and its worth it to me to keep paying so he can see control line before it is gone.

[Mike Griffin]

It seems the Control Line hobbyists relationship with AMA is almost a love/hate relationship.  If you fly contests or just have to money to spare and enjoy reading that quadcopter rag, I guess one will keep on paying to belong and that is just fine.  If one (like me) does not compete anymore and has a place to go fly that doesnt require AMA membership, and throws the magazine in the trash as soon as I get in the house, then I dont see much value in belonging.  This is my last year....

Mike 

[John Fitzgerald]

I might go one more year at the $58 rate, maybe not.   I don't enjoy competing, and have my own field that is fairly isolated, so really don't need it.   After I burn the few gallons of fuel I have, I will probably give everything away and quit, since local fuel is no longer available from Fox.

[Chuck Feldman]

This year I did not re up. The AMA has been in disfavor for me for a long time now. Nothing remains the same.

[Phil Spillman]

Hi All, Let's not forget the caret which has been dangled out for munching and pleasure! We the paying modeling public, have been granted a Two (2) Year Dues Reprieve via paying the EXISTING  Rate in advance! Therefore all the added expenses may be postponed for another little while! Just think two more years of MA at no additional cost! Such a deal!

Phil Spillman

ps I am going to pay up for the two years at which time I'll be 79+ years old and may not be a Competitor any more!!!!