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Author Topic: New CL sim from Keith Renecle  (Read 2533 times)

Offline RC Storick

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New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« on: May 21, 2015, 04:50:47 PM »
Working of geting this ready for download
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 01:51:22 AM by Robert Storick »
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Rencle
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 11:55:38 PM »
Thanks to Robert for doing this. However I must stress that this is not a new version. It is the complete pattern version whereas the first version that was on the Stunt Hanger site left out the 4-leaf clover because as per the old rules description, it could not be flown or drawn correctly on a sphere's surface. I was working on this when I came to the 2004 world champs and then after discussing the maneuvers with many stunt people and guys like Pete Soule, we figured out how the clover can be flown and I added it to the simulation.

For people that have not seen my old sim, it is not a simulator, it is a simulation of a model that flies the pattern 100% to the rules......5 foot radius corners and all! All of the maneuver shapes can be seen in the virtual world from any angle and position, so it is very useful for judges training. It was also written to illustrate the necessity of getting the rules fixed so that they are at the very least, technically or geometrically correct. The FAI adopted the suggested changes of the correct definitions of straight lines and also changed the idea of vertical being 90° to a ground reference......even if the ground was sloped. Horizontal and vertical are defined as per their technical definition and are not referenced to the actual ground surface. It is really nice however if a competition site is nice and level. Some of the world champs sites are not level.......as many of you know!

The sides of the squares are all vertical in the FAI so there is no longer a need for a debate about how the square maneuvers should look. You can actually train judges now to a defined standard and there is no need for individual interpretation. Please note that I did not state that the all present judges judge to that standard, BUT at least now, since 2010, the rules are defined to a technical standard that can actually be flown......except for a 5 ft. radius corner! The AMA rules have dropped this for "sharper is better" sort of idea, and in fact the FAI rules do also state this, but really need to get rid of the 5 foot radius, or make it at least 10 to 13 foot. I have traced many of the square corners from the best pilots in the world, and it is extremely rare to actually witness a 10 foot or 3 metre radius corner. Most of the squares that I have traced have shown a 4 metre or 16 foot radius. I have always said that the rules should be reverse engineered i.e. created from what an actual flying model can perform.

I am working on an updated 2015 version but it takes a lot of time, and my old brain battles to keep up with the latest software which is soooooo advanced, but also has a much steeper learning curve. Too many fun things to do and so little time!

Keith R
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Offline Trostle

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 05:17:31 PM »
Keith Renecle's simulation correctly shows the CL Aerobatics pattern as specified by the FAI F2B rulebook.  All of the vertical legs of the FAI pattern square maneuvers (Inside Square Loops, Outside Square Loops, and the Square Horizontal Eights) are to be flown 90o to the ground.  The AMA rules for these square maneuvers only specify that the vertical intersections of the Square Horizontal Eights are to be flown 90o to the ground.

When the square loops of the FAI pattern are flown as specified by the FAI rulebook, the top legs of those maneuvers will be noticeably short.  The AMA pattern allows those top legs to be somewhat longer than what results in the FAI pattern, allowing those top legs to appear more closely the same length (though they will still be shorter if correctly flown even by the AMA rulebook) as the vertical (or rather near vertical) sides of these square maneuvers.  That means that the angle to the ground of those sides of our square maneuvers is something different than 90o to the ground and not specified by our AMA rulebook.  With our AMA pattern, the golden arm pilots make these elements "appear" to be closely the same length as well as flying the top legs to closely resemble a great circle path rather than a constant 45o elevation.

Interesting stuff to ponder.

I am not being critical with Keith Renecles's work.  His simulation is an incredible tool to actually portray our pattern being correctly flown on the hemisphere which defines our CLPA universe.  It should be closely studied by anyone who seriously wants to improve his pattern as well as anyone who seriously wants to be a good judge.  His work is a tremendous service to our community.

Keith

Offline dave siegler

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 07:25:06 PM »
Keith, I have used the old one in the past, and it still works.  The newer one will not load it is looking for python23.dll. 

I have Python 3.4 on this workstation. 

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Offline RknRusty

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 09:03:29 PM »
Same here. I have python3.dll and cl sim 1-0.exe both in the same folder.
Rusty
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Offline RogerGreene

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 09:08:28 PM »
I am using Windows 8.2 and the download says: "this program is not commonly downloaded and could harm your computer." Will this happen?

Also, what is python3.dll?

Roger
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 12:33:27 AM »
Duh mw~ Sorry guys.......I have not done this for a while so I clicked on the wrong file to send to Robert. That one needs the Python .ddl file and one more as well. The one I've sent now does not need the extra files. Humble apologies to Robert as well for wasting his valuable time.

To Keith Trostle...... I do know that you're not being critical of my work on the rules. In fact, it was your very patient e-mails at that time that kept me going when I was trying hard to figure the basics of the maneuver shapes out. I was just very determined to end up with a set of rules that was absolute and did not leave anything to guesswork. We all know and accept that fact that a sport like ours is very subjective, but the rules themselves should never be like that. We need an absolute target to aim at, and that is what keeps us going with trying to perfect the same pattern that was developed some time in the late 50's by George Aldrich.

Keith R
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Online Peter Germann

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 03:01:21 AM »
All of the vertical legs of the FAI pattern square maneuvers (Inside Square Loops, Outside Square Loops, and the Square Horizontal Eights) are to be flown 90o to the ground.  
Since 2012 and in order to prevent rule interpretation problems when flying over sloped ground, in all of the FAI Manoeuvre Descriptions the term "ground" was replaced by "base".  See, as an example on page 35 of in the 2015 volume of the Sporting Code:

4.2.15.3. c) Take-off and levelling-off segment:
The model aircraft should maintain a constant rate of climb until reaching the base of the flight
hemisphere. The base lies horizontal at a height of 1.5 m above the centre of the flight circle.
The point of changing from climbing flight to level flight should occur exactly over the point of
release at the beginning of the take off ground roll. The transition into upright level flight
should be smooth and gentle with no sudden changes.

also on page 96, Annex F4 Appendix II Aerobatic Circle Dimension

rgds, Peter
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 03:23:01 AM by Peter Germann »
Peter Germann

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 07:08:02 AM »
Robert

I get the same warning as Roger.......................... ???
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: New CL sim from Keith Renecle
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 12:42:02 PM »
As soon as I get the new one I will post it.
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