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Author Topic: This is the other quad idiot  (Read 6235 times)

Online Paul Taylor

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This is the other quad idiot
« on: May 20, 2015, 07:25:28 PM »

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Offline Curare

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2015, 08:07:45 PM »
Not idiocy, bad luck.

Mid airs happen, it's a fact of RC.
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Offline mike londke

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2015, 08:23:08 PM »
Not idiocy, bad luck.

Mid airs happen, it's a fact of RC.
  I disagree. There is an obvious pattern that all the planes are flying. The quad went against the flow. Anyone can see that.
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Online Paul Taylor

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2015, 08:37:21 PM »
Yep. He was swimming up stream.  n1
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Offline Curare

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 08:49:09 PM »
Looked to me as though the quad that got hit was stationary.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 09:21:33 PM »
Not idiocy, bad luck.

Mid airs happen, it's a fact of RC.

   Hovering over "stage center" and in violation of the "no quadcopters" rules for the contest?  Good thing he didn't hit my airplane.

    Brett
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 09:38:49 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 09:36:07 PM »
Try that around here and you're going to get your a$$ whipped.
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Offline Curare

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2015, 09:40:51 PM »
  Hovering over "stage center" and in violation of the "no quadcopters" rules for the contest?  Good thing he didn't hit my airplane.

    Brett

I've gone through the Triple Tree website, which granted isn't a tome of knowledge but I can't find any specific mention of quads.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2015, 10:35:27 PM »
  I disagree. There is an obvious pattern that all the planes are flying. The quad went against the flow. Anyone can see that.

 I also disagree, Mike hits the nail perfectly on the head with his observation above.

 Quads and most of the dorks "flying" them just plain suck and we're all gonna pay for their stupidity and ignorance at some point. With most of them it's the same mentality as with all the food stained sweat pant velcro tennis shoe wearing lazy asses that sit at home on their couches playing video games 24-7. Clueless bastards.
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Offline Curare

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 12:02:03 AM »
And it's comments like that that will keep me away from Stunthangar.

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Offline Target

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 12:13:22 AM »
In rc, one should use the "blue sky rule" when flying with other aircraft.
That is, keep blue sky between your craft and all others, and obstacles, and you'll never have contact.
It's impossible to hit if you observe that rule and stay ahead of your own path slightly.
That's hard to do if you are not flying in  LOS (LINE OF SIGHT) mode.
He likely was not.
Hovering in a moving pattern or flying assist it is not a bright idea for avoiding collisions, in my opinion.
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Chris.
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 05:41:40 AM »
These guys were completely in the wrong. There is a well established flight line and there are booths where you are required to stand when flying on any of the flight lines. If there is not a booth available, you dont fly. Also, quads have more in common with helicopters than planes and they should have been down at the Heli line. With stuff like that happening I am sure that Pat Hartness (owner of Triple Tree) will take care of the problem. If I were the owner of the Plane that was wrecked I would have been running down there to find that guy.

Derek

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 07:26:58 AM »
These things and the morons who fly them who have no respect for common sense  are going to cause more problems for responsible pilots than you can imagine.  i have not been an AMA fan for years but if they do not get involved in some sort of positive action to control these people, nothing but problems are on the horizon for the rest of us.

Mike

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 09:56:42 AM »
Its already been said about the brainless fools on the quads.   How can you replace a plane that a person has spent time building and finishing.   A beautiful scale plane lost because some people have no common sense.   
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Online Paul Taylor

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 10:11:48 AM »
I have nothing against Quads. It's the goofball at the controls. They have no regard for other people or safty.

I like quads and think they are kind of cool.  I like anything that flys. I have been known to even tie a string on a horse fly.

But some of these people don't engage there brain.
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Offline mike londke

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 10:29:26 AM »
Its already been said about the brainless fools on the quads.   How can you replace a plane that a person has spent time building and finishing.   A beautiful scale plane lost because some people have no common sense.   
Hi Doc, If you read the comments on the Youtube channel it states it was a Foamie Electric Corsair. So at least it wasn't something somebody put hundreds of hours into. The guys with the quad did give the owner a brand new Corsair after they destroyed his. They are still dumbasses for what they did.
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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 11:12:26 AM »
Why are we talking about RC on a CL stunt forum?

MM

Offline mike londke

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 11:59:28 AM »
 R%%%%
Why are we talking about RC on a CL stunt forum?

MM
. MM I think people are interested in this beacause it is a form of model aviation. With the proliferation of these FPV Quads and some of the reckless people using them, many are concerned it could have a negative impact on ALL types of modeling. I think this issue has merit for us to debate on this forum.
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Offline EJN

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 12:43:52 PM »
Why are we talking about RC on a CL stunt forum?

MM

There are several RC forums which have CL sub-forums, RC Groups & RC Universe for example.

I view CL, FF, & RC all as equally legitimate subsets of model aviation.

However, I get the distinct impression that many here, maybe the majority,
view it something like this:

CL/FF = good
RC = bad
Quadcopters = evil

Offline dale gleason

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2015, 08:55:34 PM »
I never see what others on the forum see on posting like this....that is, no picture, no video. Can someone tell what I need to do to see this type post?
Thank you,
dale g

Offline Andre Ming

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2015, 09:06:44 PM »
Quote
However, I get the distinct impression that many here, maybe the majority,
view it something like this:

CL/FF = good
RC = bad
Quadcopters = evil

Ummm... yeah... seems about right.  H^^

Seriously: I do think some of the quad FLYERS are thoughtless and reckless, but the quads themselves are pretty cool.
Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2015, 09:37:47 PM »
There are several RC forums which have CL sub-forums, RC Groups & RC Universe for example.

I view CL, FF, & RC all as equally legitimate subsets of model aviation.

However, I get the distinct impression that many here, maybe the majority,
view it something like this:

CL/FF = good
RC = bad
Quadcopters = evil

To the contrary I think if you investigate a little further you'll discover that a fairly large segment of the Control Line community, especially a lot of the serious competitors have flown R/C in the past competitively, and a few still do so.

There is nothing inherently evil about R/C or Quadcopters.  Unfortunately like anything that becomes commonly available to the masses becomes instantly abused by a few very foolish individuals that have the potential to ruin it for everyone.  Quadcopters in particular seem to have attracted a lot of this type of element.  Probably because they are easy to obtain with no particular skills and flyable by most people without any special training or skills...certainly this does not apply to all of them but to way too many at the moment!

As for R/C in general being "BAD" there probably is some resentment on the part of some CL fliers because commercially R/C pretty much crowded C/L out of the commercial picture, and made it more difficult to obtain CL goodies, but that's not a serious dislike of R/C in general.

I do believe that there is a serious dislike on the part a lot of serious CL modelers of the "Toy" aspect of a lot of R/C fliers and the general lack of appreciation for building models and the skills required to do that by the general R/C community.  That's not to say that there aren't a lot of very adept modelers in the R/C community but they are in a minority!

Randy Cuberly
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Online Dave Harmon

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 12:34:35 AM »


I do believe that there is a serious dislike on the part a lot of serious CL modelers of the "Toy" aspect of a lot of R/C fliers and the general lack of appreciation for building models and the skills required to do that by the general R/C community.  That's not to say that there aren't a lot of very adept modelers in the R/C community but they are in a minority!

Randy Cuberly

Randy....you are so far off base with this comment that you just don't know that you don't know.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 12:56:45 AM »
Randy....you are so far off base with this comment that you just don't know that you don't know.

Yes...and you know this because of all you many years of experience with both R/C and Control Line?  Or just by your many years of experience on this Forum?  Or just by your many years of experience with R/C?

It's very easy to say someone is offbase without giving any credentials or real opinions to the contrary!  Or is this just your opinion because my comment based on 60 years in the fields of both control line and R/C upsets you.

Phooey!  I don't think you know what you are talking about and that really puts you OFFBASE!

I've been to R/C ARF Fields where there wasn't one airplane out of 50 that had actually been built by the would be flier!  I've even been to several R/C Scale contests where most of the airplanes entered were not built by the entrant...I suppose you think that is modeling.

I couldn't care less what people fly or what they do but I don't think people should represent themselves as modelers that don't build models.  Those are Toys!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 02:23:47 AM »
I never see what others on the forum see on posting like this....that is, no picture, no video. Can someone tell what I need to do to see this type post?
Thank you,
dale g


There is a video in this post. So if you can't see it something is wrong on your end.
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Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 06:06:42 AM »
Randy....you are so far off base with this comment that you just don't know that you don't know.

I think Randy's comment is spot-on.
Best Regards,
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Offline Wade Bognuda

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 06:22:28 AM »
And it's comments like that that will keep me away from Stunthangar.





Oh, no please not that..... :(

Online Paul Taylor

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 07:22:54 AM »
I never see what others on the forum see on posting like this....that is, no picture, no video. Can someone tell what I need to do to see this type post?
Thank you,
dale g


Hey Dale
Make sure you have flash player installed. This could be your problem. Go to Adobe.com and look for the latest flash player. It's free.

Paul
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Offline Mark Mc

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 10:22:42 AM »

I've been to R/C ARF Fields where there wasn't one airplane out of 50 that had actually been built by the would be flier!  I've even been to several R/C Scale contests where most of the airplanes entered were not built by the entrant...I suppose you think that is modeling.

Randy Cuberly

This is my local field, although it is more like 25-1 on the ARF to built ratio.  These guys spend hundreds or more on foamies, and then look at the guys who build from kits or scratch like country bumpkins....  $1,500 for a foam ARF jet?  Are you kidding me?  I have plans for a little balsa jet with an aluminum impeller that I feel like building and taking to the field just to tweak their noses sometimes.  But, so long as they enjoy it, I just let them be and do my own thing.  In fact, it has been good for me.  I resolved to only build and fly nostalgia or old-timer balsa planes to to take to the field.  It also got me back into flying control line as it is the opposite of their instant gratification planes.

Mark

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2015, 11:14:26 AM »
Mark,

I see you mentioned "instant gratification."

Sure, it may seem like so, but I don't think that's what it's all about.

I really think it has to do with what someone is "exposed" to or what is available. Many examples of this in many areas.

A person goes to the local Hobby Shop for the first time and look what he sees. Foamies and great packaging. Take a good look at the Tower Hobbies mail outs.

Everything has changed and not for the better, and obviously, even the modelers.

There will come a time when CL is almost nonexistant.

Compared to the money spent in the hobby overall, and if dollars were used as a comparison, one could say that already about CL.

Even with 10,000 guys on the planet doing CL, if there's that, still so few compaired to R/C, foamies and quads included, plus what goes along with that, cars, trucks and boats.

Volume manufacturing, marketing, inexpensive labor costs in other Countries and the ease of purchasing these contempory hobby products, allows for progression, in that direction, with leaps and bounds.

Buckle up!



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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2015, 11:25:13 AM »
Mark,

I see you mentioned "instant gratification."

Sure, it may seem like so, but I don't think that's what it's all about.

I really think it has to do with what someone is "exposed" to or what is available. Many examples of this in many areas.

A person goes to the local Hobby Shop for the first time and look what he sees. Foamies and great packaging. Take a good look at the Tower Hobbies mail outs.

Everything has changed and not for the better, and obviously, even the modelers.

There will come a time when CL is almost nonexistant.

Compared to the money spent in the hobby overall, and if dollars were used as a comparison, one could say that already about CL.

Even with 10,000 guys on the planet doing CL, if there's that, still so few compaired to R/C, foamies and quads included, plus what goes along with that, cars, trucks and boats.

Volume manufacturing, marketing, inexpensive labor costs in other Countries and the ease of purchasing these contempory hobby products, allows for progression, in that direction, with leaps and bounds.

Buckle up!





You nailed it!  My point in my post above was simply that a lot of the real modelers from the past, even though they accept that fact, have some resentment for it.  Especially the lack of respect for those that do build their own airplanes...most of which, where Stunt is concerned, are Gorgeous!

Thanks for a good common sense post Charles!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline EJN

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2015, 03:28:45 PM »
Quote
My point in my post above was simply that a lot of the real modelers from the past, even though they accept that fact, have some resentment for it.

It's the resentment part I have trouble understanding. Nostalgia is fine, but not when you
become paralyzed by it.

As an analogy, I had over the years acquired several high-end 35mm cameras, and a full set
of darkroom equipment which I had become proficient with. Then digital cameras came along.

I could have clung to the past, and grumbled how digital is "ruining" photography, but I bit
the bullet and bought a DSLR, and have NEVER looked back, because digital is superior to
film in so many aspects.


I am probably in the minority here, but I have always seen the "flying" aspect as the main
point, building is just a means to the end, and if there are other options available, great.

Besides, I have developed a severe allergy to balsa, just being in the same room with balsa wood
makes my sinuses go berserk.

Offline Mark Mc

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2015, 04:10:43 PM »
I could have clung to the past, and grumbled how digital is "ruining" photography, but I bit
the bullet and bought a DSLR, and have NEVER looked back, because digital is superior to
film in so many aspects.


Heretic!  Photography peaked with a roll of Tri-X in a K-1000.  Anything after that is just posing....   ;D


I sort of agree with the "what's available drives the sport" position, to a point.  It's like ARFs were 20-25 years ago.  I encouraged beginners to do the ARF route for their first, and maybe second plane, but then encouraged them to build from there.  Yes, today foamies are are what's pushed in the magazines and hobby shops, because it's what's cheap and available.  But I just can't see someone who's been in the hobby for any amount of time staying with them.  There's a time to grow, and sticking with pre-built and RTF models doesn't seem like growth to me.  And I especially can't see $1,600 for a foamie.  That's not an exaggeration, there is a guy at the field that has that much into his foamy jet.

But, I'm just a cranky older guy who laments the loss of personal resourcefulness.  

Offline Wade Bognuda

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2015, 09:08:57 PM »
Curare where are you?? Please come back!! :X

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2015, 10:43:41 PM »
I read all through some other threads on the RC forums about this very incident.  The Quad in question is a DJI Inspire, $3400 with two remotes, $4300 with two remotes and FPV. This is no beginner quad and its pretty darn cool what it can do.  It is a big hit in the real estate and land survey business as well.  You can fly it using one remote while your partner controls the camera with the other remote.  You can run up to 1.2 miles in FPV in the pilot cam while your camera man is working from his vantage point.  Or you can LOS fly it and the camera man works his magic from his view point.  There is a wide range of use for this vehicle.  Also at lift off the engines rotate up and out of the way of the line of site for the camera.  Most do not do that and there is sometimes rotors in your view. Of course it has GPS and home if something should go wrong.  But it also has another small camera that looks straight down at all times spotting itself. This is very important when using it indoors where GPS is not going to work.  If you really need a still shot just let off the sticks and it will pick a spot on the floor directly below it and stick to it at your desired altitude and it will NOT MOVE.  The computer kicks in and hovers it dead nuts still no matter what is around or air on it etc.  You can work and get your shots you want or need and then move on. That would be cool about 200' above the pilot on a CLPA plane for sure.

I read in two different places that this was going to be a filming venture.  The 2 Inspires were going to work in tandem to get the shots and create a cool video of the flight line.  I also read where the plane in question was a team plane and the pilot wasn't too worried about it and his team gave him a new one.  It was a foamie.

And there were no rules against Quads, but the use of FPV.  There is a difference.

The problem was and usually is the PURE LACK OF COMMUNICATION ahead of time.  With the flight lines at Major RC fun flys as crowded as they are there has to common sense and more communication from the line marshal and the fliers between themselves.  The guys with the Inspires should have alerted the fliers on at that time they would be flying and made sure it was ok with the line marshal or whatever they are called.  Then they should have taken off from where they were and went left and way out of the flight line and way above it for their shots. 

Some people just don't think things through before they act sometimes. Who here has not done that, please raise your hand. It doesn't make them idiots, or needing to have their a$$ beat, or any of that.  The Nall is extremely busy in the air and if you aren't really good you are going to hit something besides the ground.  I have been fling Helis for 2 years now pretty regularly and there is no way in hell I could fly there.  Just too much in the air at one time for my skills and I feel pretty confident with 200 flights or so.  Cant fly CLPA around here so I gotta fly something.

Now if someone takes their quad, plane, or whatever and does it deliberately now that's a different story.

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2015, 12:14:51 AM »
The technology is great.   Very useful, especially in commercial survey etc..

What I fail to see is the direct connection between that and the modeling community, especially competition etc.

Someone please enlighten me.  What the H. does this kind of flying and technology have to do with flying model airplanes?


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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2015, 08:56:54 AM »

Here's how I see the future of quads with that technology.

There will be one in your driveway and you will get into it and fly it to work. Sooner than you think.

Doug mentioned Joe Nall and all the models in the air.

Anyone ever fly a full size airplane to Sun N Fun and land it?

Charles
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2015, 10:15:26 AM »
However, I get the distinct impression that many here, maybe the majority,
view it something like this:

CL/FF = good
RC = bad
Quadcopters = evil

   Not from me. But in many ways, the people who populate the different disciplines are not very compatible, and the quadcopter types are even further away from the CL.and FF than sport RC. Randy C is about right; buying a model and flying it like you bought a tennis racket and headed down to the park is just not what we do, or would be interested in. That doesn't mean that tennis is a bad sport, it's just not closely related to what we do.

   RC has gotten so far in the "buy and fly" area that it really isn't that interesting or compelling. I have built and flown RC models but that's clearly different from what the massive wave of RC people do. I don't fault them for it at all, and I don't criticize them for doing it, but the mindset is completely different and when the two worlds meet, there isn't a lot of common ground.

   The current wave of quadcopter people is just one step further removed than buy and fly RC. None of them are built by the pilot, ever, and you probably can't build them or take any significant role in building and designing them. Almost everyone who has one has no idea how they work nor do they care, it's absolutely something they just buy at a store and play with. Again, far be it for me to say they are wrong, but they have absolutely nothing in common with anything I am doing for my hobby.

   Brett

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2015, 10:43:40 AM »
Brett said it well.  about the only thing that we, and how w e relate to the hobby, and the quad copter bunch have in common,  is that both of the finished products fly.

Mike

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2015, 11:40:44 AM »
If you can't fly the pattern with them, what good are they? LL~
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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2015, 12:23:26 PM »
It's the attitude of the operators, not the vehicle, that I take exception to.
I've seen safe rc pilots, of all disciplines, and unsafe rc pilots as well.
It's normally the attitude that is common, not the device they operate with.
"Mr Steele" as he calls himself, made a good point about safety, regarding cars and mobile phones, in the thread on rc groups. However, he failed to deliver the point, by using that as a justification to do what he did. His attitude is the problem. Just because you can do something dangerous without getting caught or causing damage 99% of the time doesn't mean it's ok to do that 99 times.
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Offline dale gleason

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2015, 03:00:51 PM »
Thanks, Spark.
I know the problem of not being able to see videos is at my end, I was just looking for some help in figuring what to do about it.
dg

Doug, no place to fly CLPA? What's going on out at Hobby Park, I've not been there too often as of late, but haven't heard of any problems.

dg

Offline BillLee

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2015, 04:25:44 PM »
.... Cant fly CLPA around here so I gotta fly something.
...

Echoing Dale....

Doug, where is "around here"???
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2015, 04:29:50 PM »
What?
A National Champ with no place to fly.  Hard to believe!  Sounds like time to move to Tucson!

 LL~ LL~ LL~

Not really joking though! 

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2015, 04:35:45 PM »
Charles wrote: "
Here's how I see the future of quads with that technology.

There will be one in your driveway and you will get into it and fly it to work. Sooner than you think.

Doug mentioned Joe Nall and all the models in the air.

Anyone ever fly a full size airplane to Sun N Fun and land it?"

This was supposed to have happened around 25 years ago.
Check this out and google "Moller Skycar"

  Bob Z.

Offline phil c

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2015, 05:08:07 PM »
It's not just quad copters-  Joe Nall 2015, collision at the 3D field
Another example of poorly supervised RC flying.  In this video one flyer is doing all sorts of crazy 3D flying back and forth right in front of the flight line while other models are doing flyby's and low level passes.  One of these, going from right to left clips the tail off the 3D demo plane.

Obviously there was no control over how the flying was conducted, or by the flyers to keep the flying safe.  Heavy duty aerobatics don't belong in the flight pattern or so close to the flight line.  It doesn't even take a midair, just one broken wire on most planes, can send 30 lbs of plane into the flight line and spectators.
phil Cartier

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2015, 05:44:10 PM »
Moller Skycar.

If you look in the dictionary under "con artist" this guy's photo will be there. And I'm not trying to be funny.

Reminds me of this other con artist, up in NY some years ago, many in fact, who spent a good deal of other people's money attempting to design and build a flying, I don't even know what you would call it?

Possibly it could be labled as a passenger vehicle that flies only in ground effect. The thing had stubby wings with an extreamly long cord. Wasn't designed to fly, just go fast and stay in ground effect, over water no less.  LL~

He wanted to shuttle passengers from NY to the Cape and NE Islands and there about.

I asked him why he wouldn't just consider using seaplanes or float planes? His reply, and I'll never forget it, he said, "Too much red tape with the FAA."

His contraption cost more than a real airplane and it never worked.

 After a few mishaps and crashes, results published in a few NY papers, he no longer could get a test pilot. Not that you had to be a real pilot?  LL~

"He's a crackpot, lives in the bushes."

A line from the movie Seabiscuit.

 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2015, 11:41:40 PM »
Not to hijack this already very enlightening RC bashing thread I made a comment about flying Dallas.

It goes something like this.  

Our field is positioned about 150' on the east side of a train track that runs along the top of a berm that is about 20' high.  Over the past 20 years the trees that line those tracks have now risen to around 70' or more sitting on top of the berm. Every day, and I mean about 90% of the year, the winds turn E to ESE and come right over that high ridge between the hours of 1pm and 3pm and continue on until after dark.  It is like clockwork.  I watch my weather channel app every single day.  It is pretty spot on as to what is happening at the field.  If it says 9 mph you can bet it is pretty much going to be 9 mph when you get there.  Once that wind turns from that direction it is no longer flyable, even if it states light to variable or 1-3 mph.  The turbulence is just too much.  Sometimes you see the top of the inboard wing and the next minute the bottom of the outboard. I am not talking a bump and a bounce here and there.  I am talking a full tilt of the model in who knows what direction on just about every level lap. It is common on first vertical 8 to feel as though the plane is being shoved into the ground and you just know you are going crash and you have to step way forward to ease up the pressure on it and the next one in that same  maneuver will be so light on the lines you are backing up. No, this is not just another stunt guy bitching about weather and place to fly.  I have fought through it for years and cut my teeth flying in some pretty nasty sh$t.  It has progressed now to the point of not usable for stunt after 1-3 pm.

For many many years it was flyable up to around 8-10 mph from E to ESE. You could watch the trains come by on that track and the air would get down right nasty and you would have to wave off sometimes. There were NO TREES THEN. I can remember many evenings sitting there watching the trains go back and forth as they change tracks and it would ruin a flyable evening.  I would pull up for an evening of flying and there would be a train parked on the tracks and Bob would be sitting there waiting and hoping they would move off, he would be pissed off about it too as he usually had something he needed to work on that day.  Most of the time they would move off and we could get in a flight or two. Fast forward to today and you can no longer even see the trains due to the trees, and we haven't been able to for several years now. Back then you could fight through it and trim for it and really learn how to fly in a some pretty unforgiving conditions.  It was actually darn good prep and conditioning.  Once you get somewhere with straight line winds even at much higher speeds flying was much more manageable than what you were working on at our field. Hence the saying "If you could fly at hobby park you could fly anywhere."

In the mornings the winds are usually from the south which is great and works prefect.  This is common. Or they are pretty much calm and don't come up until around 10 or 11. But after lunch they turn east.  Let me put this in perspective for you.  In 2002 from early May until we left for the Nats I had over 200 flights that year in that little short span.  I was at the field every evening waiting on the trains and dusk winds.  I was there on both days on the weekends.  I live only 4 miles from the field and my wife was working evenings then and we had no kids so what else is a guy to do?  ;D ;D Last year, 2014, I had EXACTLY 5 complete patterns on my new plane before I left for the Nats. That was ONE flying session. I had 2 other test flights but they weren't patterns.  I still somehow managed a 2nd place finish.  :D :D  I simply sat there every day watching the weather and the winds would turn E to ESE.

In 2012 I was so desperate to fly I was flying in the dark.  I would wait until the sun was down and my eyes would adjust and I could fly off the street lights and car lots lights from across the road.  It was insane but that was the only way I could get to fly. My wife said I was cheating on her  n1  until I brought home the hardware.  #^ #^ #^

Without something done to clear off that high ridge of trees, and not too mention pull up all the trees the city recently planted around the circles by the city, our field has become unusable for afternoon and evening stunt flying.  

I have a job and retirement is still light years down the road.  Morning flying sessions for me during the week are NOT and option. Weekends are a gamble at best weather wise and even if the weather did hold I am sure I would be at the kids baseball/softball games.  I can make it to the field on any evening and be in the air in under 15 minutes from the time I leave my house.  But it is just no longer an option when I can go.  

As far as speed, racing, combat, or sport flying for the most part the effect is not an issue as much or at all.  But if you try for consistent 5' bottoms when you see the top of your inboard wing on the way down the square legs and you will put it in.  There is no way practice there in the evenings anymore.

Yes this national champion has no place to fly, most of the time, and it sucks.  '' '' '' ''

« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 11:59:14 PM by Doug Moon »
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2015, 07:38:59 AM »
It's not just quad copters-  Joe Nall 2015, collision at the 3D field
Another example of poorly supervised RC flying.  In this video one flyer is doing all sorts of crazy 3D flying back and forth right in front of the flight line while other models are doing flyby's and low level passes.  One of these, going from right to left clips the tail off the 3D demo plane.

Obviously there was no control over how the flying was conducted, or by the flyers to keep the flying safe.  Heavy duty aerobatics don't belong in the flight pattern or so close to the flight line.  It doesn't even take a midair, just one broken wire on most planes, can send 30 lbs of plane into the flight line and spectators.

The 3D line requires spotters and it is their responsibility to tell the pilot what is going on around them.  One of my good friends was the one who collided with the plane in that video. Andrew likes flying full throttle knife edge passes and I'm assuming that's what he was about to do. Andrew was in the wrong and he was at fault because he didn't see the plane nor did he judge how close he was to the plane when he was flying. Both planes were put back together and were flying later on during the week.

When people fly 3D, there is no pattern set. I never fly a pattern when I go up with my planes because it's impossible to with all the high energy maneuvers, and the low and slow maneuvers I fly. 3D flying is policed by the pilots and the spotters. I fly giant scale 3D, and have never once felt unsafe spotting for somebody or flying with multiple people...you just need to know what's going on around you.

Sorry to hijack this thread, I just felt the need to rebut this.
Matt Colan

Offline dale gleason

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Re: This is the other quad idiot
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2015, 09:55:54 AM »
Thanks for the explanation, Dougie. I was afraid that we had been over-run by non-flyers, or something. Bob G was always anti-East wind, too. I think we're all disciples of him in that respect.

I still think we have the second best control line circles in Texas, next to Houston, although they are sometimes plagued by kids shooting rockets or gars swimming on the circles during high water.  :)

Talk about torpedoing a thread......sorry,
dg


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